Comments for Loot Loop Loot

Thanks for playing!

Glad you noticed that! The sets (as well as stats, builds) are all designed to be usable in different stages of the game. The earth set can actually beat some areas without even having good stats to go along with it. Fire is weak at start, strong in endgame, and weak if you're going for a high score. I'll look into the set color idea. I think it's good especially for veteran players, but I'll be gauging if having too many colors flying around an already busy screen will be overwhelming.

Ahh thanks for pointing that out, didn't catch that and will fix.

I've been thinking about what a full version would entail quite a bit. So with this prototype, I wanted to validate how a game entirely based on timed challenges would fare. Though I did attract some players that enjoy the challenge, I do think it would be difficult for me to get a wide enough audience just with that mechanic. I am thinking a full game would have multiple maps/worlds where the first time you go through it is more forgiving, it might not even have a time limit or a gold system that you mentioned. After clearing it you open up a number of challenge variants like the current game, similar to a lot of TDs. I do want to keep this game as is because it will probably be the only game in my Kong library where you can't grind through since that's at the heart of the vision, where it is more roguelike where you have to learn the lay of the land. But I suspect all my upcoming games will be grindable. Great points and thanks for mentioning that!

Hahaha, sometimes heroes need vacations too :)

Sure thing, you guys have lots of good suggestions!

Hah, understood and I use them myself in other games. I'll look into it as that will be something useful in future games as well.

Thanks for mentioning that! It was on the back of my mind but I wasn't sure if player's would really want it. You just mentioning it is a good enough reason I'll probably have that in within a couple days.

You're correct in most of your analysis but the thing is, this is not an idle game. I removed the core combat of an rpg but that is so I could focus on other aspects of the game, in this case loot decisions. I understand you found it to be too slow paced but that was a fine balancing act for me as some people were overwhelmed by the choices. The mid to late game definitely plays out at a breakneck speed. With that said, auto-choose has been suggested before but I think it is very deceiving and that will be apparent later on. There is really no optimal choice in most situations, everything is tradeoffs. If you tell the equipment filter to just stack strength, you might drop under 20 or 40 wisdom and lose a kill-buff. Just 1 example but the idea is that the loot drops do create a lot of decisions to be made on the fly. An autochooser is theoretically possible but then you'd just be microing that thing like crazy. Hope that explains some things and thanks for the feedback!

Whoa I wonder if that happens when Int drops when a spell is about to finish, like if a potion wore off. Lemme look into that one. EDIT: omg....you did the stuff of legends. You had Int so high that it brought cooldowns to 0! I actually did want to allow this as you deserve the ability to spam spells if you went that high, but since no one did it (including myself) I didn't realize there were some issues. Thanks so much for pointing this out, expect a fix uploaded very soon.

Thanks a lot! It was a ton of work and the time crunch sucked so I'm really happy the players are enjoying it. I'm going to rest for a bit but expect more updates :)

Really happy you see the vision, roguelite is probably the most accurate description for this game and maybe I should put that in the description now that you mention it.

Thanks a lot! One thing I did that I realized I should've done sooner was change the game description. After seeing that people were turned off by the speed run mechanic (understandable, sometimes you don't want that in a game like Majora's Mask for me), I changed the description to put it right up front and center so that people could at least have some warning about the game style. I agree with you though, the time limit isn't there because I wanted to annoy players and take away progress. The time limit is there because it forces decision making. Without that, a game like this turns into a farm fest where you sit on a node til you have everything you need, and that doesn't work for this game's vision. I really appreciate your words and that encourages me to keep pushing design boundaries during these prototypes!

Thanks! Yea the main way this game could evolve is having different, new maps with different mechanics. I think a core piece I didn't get around to is playing with the actual maps more. A couple examples: 1) stuff like having Mario 3 Hammer Bros roam around the map a bit. That makes you consider routes in another dimension as you try to plan your route to capture their bonuses. 2) dynamic maps like say 1 world shifts through the 4 seasons every minute or so. Maybe a river freezes in the winter and you can only cross during that period, or maybe during summer the bottom area forest will be set on fire and you take DOT damage traveling through it. Glad you think that about that game!

Sorry, this game doesn't have any sound. My current prototyping schedule is very short so I haven't found a way to fit that in yet. Though honestly I'm ok with just focusing on core gameplay and trying to get that to stick.

Yep I understand and glad you like it. I wanted to just put in something in the interim since that one takes longer to implement. I'll need some time on that one

Good strat and I love the breakdown actually. There are a lot of ways to go through this game and I mostly have little idea how players are playing the game outside of stuff like this + my own testing. You definitely hit a lot of my design points and that makes me really happy. Stuff such as using the warp zones to help with farming speed and of course utilizing fire in the end game. Since I was trying to build a game around utilizing different routes and reacting to the RNG, this is the style of play I was hoping to have in the end, and it evolves depending on what kinds of upgrades you have unlocked.

Thanks for the input! It's kinda interesting actually, so far I've heard all sorts of builds and tier lists for the sets so I haven't found a consensus on what's the best yet. The only one I haven't heard yet is wind being OP, that one I'm hanging onto personally lol. I thiiiink in theory if you stack a ton of AGI you will have a high chance to proc the instant kill, but I haven't fully tried this strat much yet. I do think the sets have different value based on how far you are in the game like you said, as I tend to like Earth early on for pushing.

There will be one shortly actually. I had it in but it fell behind the HP bar somehow..

Got it and fixed now. Will be pushing a big update in a bit.

Great questions and that does help highlight the parts I need to explain in game better so thank you for that. The blue and red shields are armor and regen respectively. Armor blocks a set amount of damage and regen heals you per sec. 20 wisdom is needed for -1. Green/blue/purple borders are rarity and rarity is tied to the number of stats an item can hold (ie. a white item will only have 1 stat filled out). There is an auto advance button coming up within an hour or 2. The set items you have activated should appear beneath the inventory with the same icon as when it's on the card. Now this has been a recent bug where those were turned off so hopefully they are still showing. That mitten scenario you mentioned should work as you described actually, so no memorization needed. You're right that the game ramps up in speed/difficulty as systems get introduced but hopefully with the changes I'm making I can make sure the player is fed the right info to make the right decision.

Thanks for playing! That was a large part of this game's vision. This is less a game about straight up power progression and more about gaining mastery over the randomness, knowing how to switch up builds on the fly, and where to go on the map as a result. It's rough around the edges but it seems built for players like you :)

Thanks so much and I'm happy you are enjoying these games :) If you didn't already pick up on it, I'm really experimenting with "idle-like" concepts where I do things like rip out the core gameplay (fishing...combat...) and see what I can do with other aspects of the game. Not all games will be hits but I guarantee each one I will try something unique.

Haha thanks :) Totally agree, I'll be pumping out some QoL features over the next few days and gauging the response from there. It's frantic by design but you're right, it should be the right kind of frantic where you're trying to figure out the best stats to pick in time rather than juggling 3 other things. Heh I know it's tongue in cheek but Steam really is my target goal after all these prototypes are done. Glad to have you guys all in on this journey and helping me :)

Yup, never said it was idle :) I hope it can be enjoyed for what it is though.

Thanks for the feedback! Yea I figured the time limit would be a pretty divisive mechanic. I did consider doing the standard flow of having a normal game + timed challenges, but I really wanted to try something new here where the entire game is a timed challenges and you're given rewards based on your performance. I know that time limits aren't everyone's cup of tea but I agree with you. The idea of trying to optimize something can really open up a game and it's mechanics to another level (your example is great btw, very common scenario). I really can't change the time mechanic since it's at the heart of the game, but I can certainly work on the UI and UX. If players can see what you saw, that is, that the game is game all about dancing on your feet with decisions, then I think it could be received more well. I'm currently making changes now and I look forward to seeing everyone's feedback :)

Thanks :) you didn't have to keep barreling forward through the clunkiness so I appreciate you doing that. I think the game has a pretty unique premise and gameplay, but I'm having a lot of trouble helping the players understand it as it's a lot of new concepts that subvert expectations. I'm gonna keep updating this for a while before starting the next prototype, but I hope I can solve that issue before time's up.

Yup you're latching onto some of my design intentions and it's really good to see :) Throughout the muddy UI/UX, there's a game underneath there where there's lots of intricate decisions and strats to make, and potentially cool builds like the one you have. PS. I don't actually know how broken Fire can get, especially combined with Fire-4. On paper I think it can really rocket up the Strength stat but at the cost of a lot of time.

I totally get that and thanks for the comment! I knew by trying a bunch of new things, people would have less familiar things to latch onto so I'm trying to figure out the best way to connect those ideas. In the grand scheme of things this is a game focused on loot selection where time pressure forces you to make the best of what you're getting. Since there are multiple routes in the game, different builds work better for certain paths so that is one of the players' decisions. I think you're right though, that is the gameplay isn't correctly falling onto the player, it's not gonna feel very good and they're not going to experience the proper learning growth curve. I'll definitely be looking more into how I can make the player's feel like they're getting better without resorting to a blanket exp gain system which I feel like is just a handicap for my poor design. I want to make players feel the same puzzley/decision making I do.

Yea I do think a map in between games is gonna be one of the first updates I'll be doing. Appreciate the feedback and yea I wanted to play around with some more unique loot/card aspects that weren't just combat focused.

Good feedback! The sets were indeed quite difficult to balance and I need to review it even more. I will say I found some areas where it currently works well. For example in the topmost path there is a slime+ with swamp, which creates a no healing effect. I found that it's best to actually forsake all stats in favor or earth4 or even earth3 if you are a bit further along. I need to communicate the set effects better. They do show up as tooltips but maybe I can throw them into the loadout screen so people could analyze them better? Not sure. Thanks, I really do want to push some design boundaries while I'm still in the prototyping mode. I just need to figure out how to click my intentions better.

Thanks for playing and I'm glad you understood the premise right away! You're correct about the speed and I actually do agree with the overwhelming speed. Especially once set items are introduced, that makes it pretty hard to make an optimal decision in that timeframe. That speed and difficulty was intended by design since rapid loot selection is the heart of the game. With that said I can see the map juggling being a hell of a wrench when there's so much else going on so I'll definitely be looking into streamlining this whole experience. Btw it's actually not terrible to spend extra time in an area to farm up a bit. That's something I do often as a strategy. Good point about the set items, I did just push a fix for that so hopefully they show up now. The intellect stat is in the area with 3 sludges (Freaky Forest 5 will unlock it). Thanks for the stat pacing feedback, it's been a delicate balance between introducing stats without overwhelming the player.

Thanks for the feedback! The time limit was inspired from timed challenges such as Realm Grinders'. I really enjoyed those challenges so I wondered what a game would be like if it focused solely on that. I definitely understand it's not for everyone, especially if they came in without that expectation (I'm not a fan of it for Majora's Mask). The idea of the time limit is to allow skillful loot decisions. If you removed that time limit, you can basically farm up until you win. This is common for a game focused on progression like idle games or RPGs. A lot of other games you can just look up the best build to overcome an area and work towards that. I was hoping with RNG and time limit, you're trying to make the best of what you're given quickly so that's how this ended up. Sorry if that isn't resonating with you but thanks for the discussion. I think it's a pretty interesting topic which is why I made this game in the first place.

Oops sorry about that! We just realized that wasn't activated in game. I just pushed a fix and you should be able to see the set effects below the inventory now.

Thanks that's very helpful feedback :) I definitely agree the interface just blasts you in the face at first. It turned into a tradeoff between introducing mechanics slower so that players aren't overwhelmed with the UI, and introducing mechanics fast enough to keep players interested since the early game can feel slow. The players are helping me to understand what all the variables are to play with so that I can tweak this game more so I'm grateful for that. I do like the map idea and I'll look towards doing that. I think it's important to allow the player to plan a bit, otherwise it's a lot of exploration for them (and probably failure).

Thanks and no prob. I'll be playing with a variety of concepts in my future prototypes so hopefully I'll catch you more on the next one!

Thanks, I feel like if people get that far then they can really see the potential in the design. The problem of course is how to get people on board that train haha. That will be the focus of these next updates.

Thanks for playing! and yea, I know this one's different from FLF so I'm really interested to see the different audiences and pros/cons of the different styles and genres, I'm really learning a lot from this process.

Fair points for sure. Like I mentioned in the other reply I found the UI very challenging because just about every player was looking for something different in terms of info, including some people that did want everything right up front so they could see it because it was important to them. Your point is noted though and I'll experimenting with tooltipping things more. As for the art, I feel like the art already is pretty simple-cartoony, and maybe it's just the UI that's dragging the eyes around everywhere so I'll start there. I'd like these prototypes to really explore different directions though, not just in game design but in art as well, so that when it comes to making a full game I have good lessons learned and can make the best product possible. I hope to continue pushing those boundaries and learning from your guys' feedback!

No problem and I appreciate the feedback! The UI was definitely the most challenging part of this game as there's a lot of info and everyone had a different opinion of what is and isn't important. I'm still looking at feedback and seeing what to iron out there. I agree with the hotkeys and can put those in game. I actually don't know what the equipment selection option is, can you send me more details on that one?

Thanks! One thing I wanted to experiment here was with a game based around timed challenges. I really enjoy them in games such as Realm Grinder so I was curious to see what would happen if the whole meta-loop revolved around it.

Oops good catch, I forgot to change those. Thanks I'll fix that now.

Thanks for the feedback! This was something I considered early on and I'm still debating it. The main issue is that it's deceiving in a couple ways. a) I don't want players to think this is an idle game and play it as such. Combat is automated but the player has to be very active. b) Auto advance is generally not the best way to play. Nor is there always a single path to a node. There are 5 direct routes to the final boss, and the best route depends on what kinds of drops/skills the player is using. Ultimately what I'm getting at is that it's a great suggestion and I would use it myself, but I'm afraid it might make new players play the game incorrectly because of the impression/expectations it gives off. I'll keep an eye out on comments about this and am definitely willing to discuss more. I think a good middleground might be to have this be an unlockable feature later into the game after they've understood the concept more.

Now's probably a good time for me to figure out how to do that, good idea :)

Ahh thanks for reporting that. I fixed one UI issue but it seems there's still others. I'll keep looking into this though I'm having trouble recreating it.

Thanks for the feedback! That's not a bad idea. In some ways I wanted to experiment with how far I could get with this design as is (upgrades strictly from clearing stages). I was hoping people would be enticed enough to keep doing runs to clear nodes and get upgrades but I do agree that I can be deflated if I do a run but fail to conquer any new stages. Gold would certainly help bridge that progression gap but I think for this game I'd like to try hitting a different audience than the grind audience. I consider this game more of a puzzle game in some ways as to figuring out the map and how to push through it. I do think your last sentence still fits my design perfectly. My current path is to add in a couple things to the mid/end-game including starting gear though suggestions could sway me.

Yep that's intended, since the game doesn't have combat for the core mechanic, I wanted to put more emphasis on loot selection and map movement. I tried to build in a variety of tricks the player can use on the map to optimize their run.

Thanks for the feedback! This UI was really tricky because there's a lot of info and small real estate. I'll definitely be scrutinizing this and seeing where I can improve it in an update.

Oh that's not good, maybe try changing the browser zoom. I'll look for a fix in the meantime. Edit: Pushed a new update and hopefully that fixes it!