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There's an easy loophole in getting around the final boss, by simply using the 'judgment' skill on the second last level. Really, really nice and fun game though :)
Thanks for playing! This is a feature I'm still on the fence about since there's complexities to the implementation and interface. I'm gonna keep knocking out some other updates to the game first but I'll certainly re-evaluate this one once those are done.
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I think the whole set idea could be reworked now that I think about it. Instead of 4 set pieces, you could instead unlock a wind/water/rock/fire amulet on the map. On the start each run, you choose which amulet you want to start with (the same way you choose which ability you start with), which gives all the bonuses (ex. water amulet gives +50%int, slow, and splash). However, each amulet also has downsides (water amulet gives -X% str, -X% regen, etc). This way, you have to choose carefully which amulet you want to use in each run. Since theres 4 different amulets, there would be essentially 4 different "classes" to choose from.
I like the general idea but I was careful to have too much selection before a run. The reason is because I wanted players to react to the RNG and drops they were being given. If the player chose too many things up front, then there would only be 1 good path for them to go down (ie. you have a build that is great at AOE only, you can only take the top route). So that's why the game is heavily focused on in the moment loot selection. You might have a plan in mind, but suddenly a 4th Earth piece drops. If you're being optimal, you should change gears and tackle that pesky swamp while you have the Earth bonus. That's kinda what I'm getting at here. Your idea is good and works for a more steady progression path, but I really want to experiment with dynamic progression.
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Interesting concept, but for me, the timer kills the fun. I just get into a groove and it takes so long to get equipment worth anything almost always just negative values, so losing everything and having to grind again in a short time kinda takes the wind out of it. 3/5
Thanks for playing! The timer mechanic isn't for everyone but it is central to the game vision. The game is a roguelite so starting over and figuring out how to optimize a run is a big part of that genre. I'll be experimenting with a lot of concepts in future prototypes so if this one doesn't click for you, I hope another one will :)
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I like the game so far, I really do, but it's got some polishing to do. Putting the hard reset button next to the start over button is asking for trouble. I was curious to see if you had put an "are you sure" prompt to save careless players. I think that's definitely a feature you should add.
I've unlocked the fire set of gear, and they don't seem to work the way they should, either that or they don't work intuitively. For example, if fire pants are picked up while already wearing fire pants, instead of the counter staying where it is, decrements the counter. some suggestions:
1. If the player dies with less than 30 seconds left on the clock, end the game instead of making the player wait to respawn and then lose. Right now the timer displays a negative value which makes the game look broken.
2. Add an "end current round button" to the main screen instead of hiding it in the options screen.
A couple of those I have coming up in the next update, such as the hard reset confirm and the timer change. Your scenario of fire pants swapping shouldn't decrement the counter, so the UI I have laid out is probably just being interpreted incorrectly. I think there is certainly room for improvement there but I'm not sure what to change there given the real estate limitations. Thanks for all the suggestions, I'm continuing to read all the feedback and figure out a way to streamline the experience for all players so breakdowns like this help a lot!
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Awesome game, 5 stars! Like others have said, tool tips for each stat (ex. when does wisdom grant -1) would be nice. Also, figuring out which armor piece to choose while simultaneously looking at set requirements gets a little hectic, but not too bad. I love the zone effects, and would like to see this extended into longer "worlds" that require specific builds. Would love to see more stages after beating the final boss (probably by resetting all upgrades and moving on to the next world). My best time right now is ~3 minutes, by getting over 100 int and spamming whirlwind which kills most enemies and the boss almost immediately. Keep it up!
That's what I'm thinking for a final game for sure. I think different worlds with specific mechanics is the way to complete this game and they could really change up how the player plays depending on the mechanic. Perhaps instead of having a ton of different zones, each world only has a handful of them so that it's easy for players to digest all the different mechanics and strategies they have to pull off. 3 mins is a solid time and I love the max Int strat myself. Thanks for the feedback!
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I really like this game. It's got some clever concepts, and I like the fact that you're forced to make decisions quickly. However . . . I'm up to 5 stats and 3 sets, and am finding that what felt like high-energy decision making has turned into frustration for not being able to even accurately assess what is coming in on three items, particularly when I'm killing things quickly. It makes my gameplay itself feel a little random.
Thanks for playing! Yea everyone falls differently on the curve and the game ramps up to test the loot-decision skills you build over time. I do plan on adding a slower mode since the end game is incredibly fast, even for me. With that said, a part of the design is to overwhelm the player and have them make suboptimal decisions, not unlike say a bullet hell game. For me personally, I stop looking at certain stats/values and try to focus on only 2 things to compare at that point and that helps me progress.
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Fun! I had a really hard time against the boss up until I got 250 INT and started being able to spam click my abilities cause they had 128% cooldown reduction haha
Hah yea, I'm happy with having that as an option in the game. I really like going full Int as well, though the game turns into an absolute turbomode because everything is dying instantly. Thanks for playing :)
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Awesome game. Some more explanation would be nice for some stuff, like how much agility berserk gives. It's nice to be able to see the math behind the abilities.
One other request is a hotkey for picking loot. It's nice to be able to do things purely with the keyboard if preferred.
Got it. I was initially thinking there's no logical room for a card-picking hotkey, but if players don't mind taking their hand off the mouse then it shouldn't be a problem. I'll give it a shot and see how players think. Berserk you can actually see it raising your stats right on the your stats screen itself (1 per sec) but I will admit that Hail is completely hidden from the player (1/10th your damage every .5 sec). I should be able to add this info to the current skill tooltips. Thanks for the feedback!
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I wish you could pause the timer so you could make decisions about changing equipment before they're replaced by the next set.
I do plan on adding a slower mode and perhaps a pause to give some players more time. I will say that the idea behind this game is to have basically nothing but loot selection as the player's actions. That's why it really starts to ramp up, because this game is designed to test your ability to make quick and smart decisions on the fly and in a limited time so it's really central to the design. Thanks for playing and commenting :)
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Fun game, would be nice to be able to disable 1 or 2 sets if possible but keep them in the game so item hunting for the sets you want would be easier. Hope you make another map. Was a solid 2-3 hours of fun.
Yea, the vision of this game was to make loot decision a skill-based activity, so I throw in a lot of chaos in data for the player to try to analyze and overcome in time. Now if you're talking about about drop-rate wise, getting new sets won't affect the drop rate of other sets, they are all added on top of each other where having just Fire set drops just as much as when you have all 4. I do think a future version would focus on new maps with a unique mechanic in all of them, still playing around w those ideas in my head. Thanks for playing!
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Would really like a pause button for players to catch their breath. Sometimes players would want to stop for a bit and do something else, or they are just feeling stressful from the timer.
Thanks for the feedback! I do intend to provide a slower mode in the future for players to deal with the timer better. I'm not totally sure on the pause yet since it could be abused, but I'll try it out and see how it plays, might be a feature only in the slow mode.
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Very cool concept and fun to play! I agree with what others have said - you need to have some description of the sets and what they do accessible. I also recommend having a speed option - often the choices are flying by so fast that I have no idea what is coming up or what is missing. Considering that you are potentially trying to compare multiple stats and which sets the item may be adding to or replacing it gets hectic and frustrating. Fix those (and add additional levels to the game) and you have a real unique and very fun game on your hands!
Thanks for playing! Yea, after feedback I'm definitely considering adding a slow mode which won't let you compete on the high scores, but will allow newer players to get their feet wet. Once they understand the game better, going back to the normal mode should be much easier. Good suggestion for sure.
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Having some trouble understanding (triggering?) Judgment's '3x victories' From the description it sounds like it's an alternative to a high wisdom stat, but it's not clear. Actually, most of the special skills could use a more obvious splash when they're used. :)
You're right, it's similar to wisdom where you can skip stages. Honestly I had no idea how to word it correctly in such a small amount of words, but know that you have to "last hit" with it. That is, make sure you finish off the battle with it. Yup, skill effect visuals will be coming in an update sometime this week!
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Nicely balanced game! Few points where I thought I'd maybe hit a wall, but a different build on a old path gets much needed unlocks. The only suggestion would be an indication on the Skills page to highlight any newly unlocked things.
Really glad you found that out :) The heart of this game is really about strategy and knowledge about builds and when to switch them around. Totally agree with you on the skills page thing, I'm looking to give the loadout screen a makeover either tonight or tomorrow. Thanks for playing!
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Overall, a fantastic game. There's a lot of feedback you've responded to already, so I'll just mention one point I haven't seen. The existence of the inventory slots combined with potions as they currently function doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. While there are narrow circumstances where you might want to save potions to push through a zone, the majority of the time it's better to use potions as soon as you get them due to their duration-based effect or just outright lack of use otherwise (for example, endurance potions don't "heal" you, so in a no-heal zone, they're not very useful if you use them *during* the fight as opposed to before entering the zone entirely). Adding/changing potions to have "instant" effects (stun, damage, victory skip, heal, etc.) would better encourage management of those inventory slots awarded. And I'm sure there's more design space to work with going beyond the traditional instant-use potion system that I'm not creative enough to think of.
Thanks for the thorough feedback! Yea I did have some other concepts for inventory like what you said. Scrolls that have 1-time use spells/effects so that'd fall under your suggestions there about stun etc. Potion management can be straightforward, but I think there are some optimization strategies with how its designed. The first note is that early levels are faster to clear, so you can hang out in early levels til you have a good set of potions and then resume a hard section. Wis potions I personally only pop if I know I'll hit a new milestone, and I only pop it right before the last hit that counts. Int potions for an endgame speedrun I will only pop if I know I will hit 100% CDR, I also only do it if I can reach the boss before the potion ends. These are small nuances so it's not huge, but I think there are a bit more scenarios out there. With that said, an inventory where you're juggling potion/scroll/??? choices is gonna be really fun and I'd love to expand the idea more!
Nice job finding that! That was something I left in the game to give more options to the player. I probably wouldn't have it in a full version but I like that it can be strat here.
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i don't get the equipment thing. do the items accumulate ? so i pick +4 str and next one + 3 str = +7 str ? or will it swap out ? with the time running and items chaning every moment and no reswapping i cannot figure this out .
Yea I get it can be a bit confusing with everything going on. The +/- shows the difference against the equipped gear. If you have gloves that have 4 str, and the item card is a glove with 10 str, it will say +6. If you click the card it will swap out your old glove with the new 10 str glove, it doesn't accumulate. Hope that helps!
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After playinga few round the first levels get too fast. At the same time making sure you choose the right path, use your skills, use your potions and compering skills AND sets of the items and picking the right one is just too much.
Maybe some 'slow down' rewards on the way could help. They could slow down everything - fights, cooldowns and the time bar. Maybe we cold be able to deactivte it like the auto-progress. That way we could use it at the beginning and have the original speed in the end.
Thanks for the feedback! Indeed I was trying to find a right balance for speed and progression. A slower mode could be interesting a help out newer players for sure. Normally I think it'd be against the game concept, but I like that you mentioned only have it usable for a few zones, maybe the first 2 sections only to get their bearings. Definitely a feature I'll consider.
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You could make the final boss disappear after 2 minutes leaving his shadow to fight with behind. The faster you beat the shadow, the more permanent buffs you get. Eventually you should be able to beat the final boss in 2 minutes
That's a pretty neat idea. Never seen that as a bonus round sort of thing and it actually sounds like a great way to expand replayability. Almost like a loot pinata you're hitting at the end of the game :) For this prototype I think I'll be keeping it just to a speed run kinda thing where everyone's on the same page. Again, I do like your idea for either a full version or maybe something I put into another prototype, it's pretty creative!
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Very promising. Quite a lot more content and in depth than that fishing game. Honestly not sure which I think you should fully develop, though I feel like i'm still leaning towards the fishing game. It's a very relaxing progression, while here the time limit (Which is a great core mechanic considering the other mechanics at work) puts some stress on you, as do the pickups.
Another great prototype, I see a lot of potential in this, as well as in you.
Thanks a lot :) Yea, choosing the final game to go with will be a combination of a lot of factors, including its potential as well as the fact that the games draw different audiences in different ways so it'll be fun to analyze. The core mechanics were tricky to mix together since they are a bit unusual but I was pleased that something coherent came out of the process. Glad to have you on board my vision of kicking out prototypes that push on game design boundaries and I hope to show you more cool stuff in the future!
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The graphics turned me away from trying this game, but I knew that there's tons of horrible games with great visuals and vice versa. I'm glad I got to play this. According to my internet history, I finally tried this out last night after midnight and then came back this afternoon to finish it.
Thanks for being open-minded! Sorry the graphics weren't to your liking, I think they're good myself and we worked hard on them. We'll be continuing to experiment with different gameplay and visuals as we create new prototypes.
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Definitely brings back the same feeling of frantic anxiety I experienced when I was first getting into the roguelike/roguelite genres. Not sure if that's a good thing, but it's a neat game! Just not for me.
Thanks for playing and for being fair! This game is not for everyone and I'm really glad you recognized it impartially. I hope to experiment with lots of concepts in the future so maybe the next one will get you :)
Thanks for playing! I wonder if there is some FF extension blocking your save for some reason as I am using FF myself. I hope to add some import/export features in the future to at least get around that short term.
Yup! You're just walking past the final boss and you can remain buddies. No really I did leave that in there cuz I liked have a few different options of clearing the boss. I'd probably avoid that in a full version though haha.
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Once you're done the game, here are some tips to get a quick time:
- unlock everything first
- equip skills: Axe:Berserk, Bow:Hail, Sword:Judgement
- choose the very top route
- use berserk and hail whenever you can
- use judgement for a victory when you get the chance, but make sure its off cooldown when wisdom is maxed for the stage you're at (every 20 points of wisdom saves you doing you 1 level/stage).
- early-mid game stat priority: 1.wis(until max) 2.luk 3.agl
- at the warp stage, you might want to turn off auto-advance and replay it a few extra times to up stats before finishing
- late game stat priority: 1.int 2.wis(until max) 3.agl/str
- skip the last boss using by judgement on the stage before him
- potions are REALLY good, they last about as long as equipment, and they stack. Save wis potions for where needed. Spam the other potions.
I might have the fastest legit speedrun so far at 125s (Trollusque08 I know cheats), but it shouldn't be that hard to beat my time. GL
Haha awesome, I was playing this a bunch myself trying to figure out the same thing: what are legit speedrun scores? I had a very similar build except I used whirlwind instead of judgment. This one is a tossup for me and I'm not totally sure which is better yet. My strat is pretty RNG heavy but it relies on farming (usually in the warp zone) until you have enough pots to reach 100% CDR, then you mash out ww all the way through the boss. I'm so sad, I actually managed to get 3 Int pots by the end of BROKEN BADLANDS. I thought "ok, ill use these right after the ice area and get to the finish line" but I calculated the Int wrong and botched the timing. My Int ran out at the beginning of Undead Utopia but I estimated the finish time would've been similar to yours but that's totally a guess. I can confirm that your time is legit since I was playing around with those kinds of builds and know their general timing. Awesome job and thanks for sharing that!
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got my spells past 100%cool down. infinite invincibility and hit all enemies x2 damage. Don't know if it was meant to be this way. But great game!
Yup, I very much wanted that to be a viable build. It's hard to achieve until you have a ton of upgrades but then you get rewarded for your troubles :)
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It's good to see innovation, moreover it works well. The initial learning curve is a bit rough given the deliberate time pressure. At minimum you should make set bonuses visible somewhere pre-combat. Better would be some sort of basic/tutorial mode with little or no time pressure, perhaps pointing out key game concepts such as no-heal areas. I also suggest adding a flat 1 or 1.5 second pause before advancing to the next monster-group. While time pressure is ok, the pace can get inhuman when insta-killing. The Water set seemed disappointing. Set Earth-4 was extremely valuable for some areas, but my favorite was Fire-3 plus Air-2 to crank up the damage output. (If you have 6 equipment slots, that leaves some flexibility for grabbing equipment upgrades.) I found the Judgement skill particularly useful. Not only does Judgement speed basic progress, it can combine with other skills to at the end of a run to jump ahead an extra area (picking up the completion bonus for the extra area).
That's actually funny you picked up on the judgment trick, I only found that out myself about an hour ago. Another player found out you can actually skip the final boss that way and I'm gonna keep that in lol. I know it's incredibly unobvious but you can delay the spawning of monsters by hopping back and forth on a stage. Not a great reason for not having a pause, but just a little strat I use sometimes if I'm really debating something. I agree the speed can be very challenging especially if you're in a warp zone, though some players seem to handle it well and use it for farming. All in all, thanks for the suggestions on helping with the learning curve. I'm currently revamping the loadout screen a bit to help with things and hope it'll scare away people less :)
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Very fun! I hope there will be new maps. I like the mechanics of the game. At the start i was hoping "pause" button to have time to read and select my item but the more i played the less i felt needed it. We should at least get a new power after the final boss and you could put some mid-boss at node or in some dead end in order to unlock new stuff.
Thanks for pushing through that hurdle in the beginning! Yea it seems like a lot at first but you build the skill of analyzing the loot quicker over time and that's the core mastery the player has to learn. I really do like the idea of a new power gained but at this point I'm kinda keeping it as is for the prototype. I think the full version of this game will definitely have multiple maps with unique mechanics for each one. I like the idea of world bosses, like the Hammer Bros in Mario 3 just roaming around, forcing even more route decisions.
I thought about that but couldn't find the best way to do it cuz I wanted to keep it on one hand. Do you think something like 1-3 cards, Q-E skills, Z-C potions? I like having map movement on A-D so it's just a little awkward to put pots down below, but that would keep it on one hand.
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Finally had a day off so I could play and enjoy this game. Beated it for the first time. It has a very fast progression when you get to know how to play with sets. Basically, good idea is to grind first area for 3 pieces of fire set and then go kill everything without losing that bonus. (+1 perma str for each defeated stage, clearing map with that makes you to get 110+ dmg per shot). My skill set was berserk (for faster farming), fortress (useful on no healing areas) and judgement (to get faster progression). I swooped the whole game in 10 minutes, just when I got +3 potion power, pot power helps a lot. 3 skills is a must for sure too! Abuse fire set power for all areas, you can keep it at 2 before the end nodes. Really, this game became way to easy in the end or maybe I got too lucky, idk. Before my victory run I had 1/3 of map not redeemed. Waiting for more updates! You have my love, thank you!
Nice play by play, and I think you're the first person to actually mention judgment as one of your skills! It's actually the skill I tend to use the most because it's practically a free zone skip if timed correctly. I also like that you understood the idea of transitioning builds when you said you start putting the brakes on the Fire set to get ready for the boss area. That's a concept I really wanted to convey to people but it usually takes a while to sink in. There is no optimal build because you have to think down the road too. Wisdom might be good early in a run, but if you ignore other stats you'll eventually hit a wall if you didn't transition at the right time. Yea the game can be on the easy side if you really grasp all the mechanics, but since this is a prototype I wanted players to easily see the full concept. I'll continue updating for the next several days but will eventually move onto another prototype because I have many other ideas to share with everyone!
I really appreciate you giving it another shot :) I really do know the game is obtuse with an unusual learning curve but I really want to take risks with game design, especially when there are 3 idle games coming out every day on Kong (I love idle games btw, but they are usually formulaic). I'm gradually understanding how to tweak the game to make more sense due to everyone's feedback so I'm happy to have discussions here.
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You lose your gear when you die? That's just silly. What permanent bonuses are you getting so you're not just repeating actions without advancement?
Appreciate the question! The game is a roguelite so it follows the same format as other games in the genre. There is semi-permadeath, but if you were able to clear new levels, you get the permanent bonus that's the reward for the level. Now you're right, if you are unable to clear a new level in a run then there isn't a grind system to make progress. This game is designed to be a more skill-based and puzzle-like experience. Whether that clicks with you or not ends up being a matter of the player's taste as I know some people prefer a grindable advancement (similar to the difference between a roguelike and a roguelite).
Definitely, an auto-filter for gear is actually useless in this game design. I don't mean this in an accusing way but if you play it more, the design will show why. The reason is because there is no optimal stat or strat in the game. It all depends on how far you are, how many perma-upgrades you have, and what path you want to take. There are too many scenarios to cover but I'll just give one example. You have 40 wisdom will allows you to bypass 2 fights. One item drops that allows you to finish out the Earth set which makes you immune to zone effects, but also breaks your wisdom stat bonus. The game is more about reacting to the RNG of the drops and making a good decision from there. Some kind of automated item filter is possible to code up, but the player would end up spending more time juggling it than just clicking on items. I hope that explains things, I know the design is a bit wild but I'm trying my best to figure out how to help players understand its nuances.
No prob and thanks for giving this a shot. One of the best lessons I learned as a dev was that every player has different motivations for playing a game. Some people like the feeling of power/progression, those people tend to like idle games. This game was designed to feed skill and mastery motivations. If this is not your cup of tea, that's fine, but I do think people need to recognize that games are usually not better or worse, they just appeal to different tastes.
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Now that I played the game a few times I wanted to leave a actual comment. I love how intense the game feels the the more clear bonuses you have the more snap decisions you have to make early game. Even the sets are fun to mix up. After noticing the benefits of attack speed, I went from thinking a tank (fire/earth maybe wind) to pure dps (water/wind) is best. Water at first looks like the weakest but it's the only one you don't need death/rng to benefit from.
Thanks for the feedback! I've found that when most people get past the learning curve, they really start to appreciate its potential and concept. I too, enjoy how it starts off as "well this decision is easy" and goes to "oh god, I see a bunch of green numbers here but it'll break my fire set, no time left I'll just click it!" But you as a player just gets better and better at analysis speed and you gradually improve your decision-making over time. I've been happy with the set item design as I've seen a wide variety of builds posted. Some people mentioned even just going for 3 2-set bonuses just for a pure stat build. Glad you liked the game!
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Wow, excellent spin on the idle/roguelite genre.
I would pay money for a fully developed game like this, but the prototype already stands on it's own. In particular I enjoy all the unlocking going on, really nails the essence of that roguelite progression. My main point of feedback would be that once the speed picks up and you have to start looking at both sets and stats, it can become slightly too frantic. Other than that, I just wish I could sink more time into it. I'm looking forward to seeing what you end up doing with it.
Thanks, really appreciate that :) You're definitely right about the end game speed! The game flow is basically 1) Introduce mechanics 2) Get players to understand how different builds work in different areas 3) Have them show mastery of mechanics. I agree it is very frantic and even I can't keep up with it a lot of the times and am forced to make suboptimal decisions. I think a full version of this game wouldn't ramp up that quickly but I did want to see how it all played out in this prototype. The main thought I had for full game is multiple maps/worlds with unique features, such as a world where the 4 seasons cycle rapidly. Where there might be a river and you can only cross it during winter, or during summer the forest lights on fire and you take DOT damage. I think the map portion of the game has a lot of untapped potential and could complete the game design.
Ah sorry about that, I thought the warning and text was enough to explain it was a dangerous click unless intended. I can add in a confirmation button in the next update. I'll also add a back button to go back to the loadout screen. Thanks for the feedback!
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Fun game, nice innovative concept. The difficulty curve is a bit off. The final stages are either going to murder you or you;re going to face-roll them. It gets pretty fast with the equipment ... in later stages it becomes less of a strategy issue and rather of a ... can I identify and click on the better loot fast enough. Then of course I could disable the auto-advance but where is the fun in that?
You nailed the concept right on the head! I really wanted to see where I could take the loot-selection-focused concept and I wanted to test the decision making of the player. Near the end it can be blindingly fast (especially in the warp zone) as you have to analyze a number of variables quickly so execution comes into play, which isn't something I've seen in other games and wanted to experiment with that. You're definitely right about the difficulty curve. This game was a nightmare to balance but I've been listening to players and trying to adjust things accordingly. I do think RNG comes into play but you probably noticed that this game is about figuring out how to roll with what you're given and adapt. It's also a bit like roguelikes where some runs are just awesome and you get to rip through the dungeon. Thanks for the feedback and I'm glad I could show off some new mechanics for you.
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Erased all my progress and then wouldn't let me progress past the first node when I tried to start again. Changing my 5 star review to a 1 star.
Dang that's unfortunate. The save system should work unless something outside of the game interferes with the cache being erased. I think you might've run into the issue where turning on autoadvance during the tutorial will break it. I did just push a fix for that and hopefully you can play it again.
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Really love the game and the concept, it might be nice to add some prestige bonus to start the game over with to add some replayability even if it's something like a small stat boost. Just something that lets you grind the game even after youve beat it.
Ahhh that's actually a pretty neat idea, that way it could allow players to reach insane heights. For this game I'd like to keep the speed run aspect purely on skill (and RNG of course) since that's central to the vision, but the idea is great and I think I'll implement it in future games!