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Make Badge Level. [DON'T RAISE LEVEL CAP... yet] You can get to Level 65. !!AMAZING DISCOVERY!!~~~

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Best idea yet: Make rating cap 10 points/day, after that you can still rate freely.


You can get to Level 65 in a year without getting a SINGLE Hard badge nor Impossible.
Also, without referrals nor uploaded games.
How?


You can get 370 points from ratings per week. 50 per day from ratings (350/w), 10 a week from user content and 10 a week from the Collabs.
That’s 19,240 points in a year.
Add that to an average of 13 points per day with BOTD (It was 12.6/d from March to December in 2011) + the actual values of the badges and you get 9,490 points in a year. (26*365)
Without any badges, quests, referrals or game bonuses you can have 28,730 points – which is Level ~60 – IN A YEAR.


Now, it takes 36,560 points to get to Level 65. So with that trick you’ll only need ~8k points FROM ACTUAL LEGITIMATE GAMING (not counting the BOTDs) (or not if you cheat lol xd z0mg) to get there. WTF? THAT’S ONLY ONE FOURTH!!
You can get that by getting a few Easys and a lot of Mediums.
There, you’re Level 65 and you didn’t even need a single Hard badge that wasn’t on BOTD nor Impossible, you don’t even need to get every single Easy or Medium.
You can get there far earlier if you collect a lot of Hard badges. With less than 400 you already get there in SIX MONTHS – but that’s hard.
So yeah, Level 65 isn’t so much of a feat, is it?


OR YOU CAN GET THERE WITHOUT A SINGLE BADGE THAT ISN’T BOTD AND SHIT IN 1,2 YEARS LOL!!!


Options:

  • Raise Level Cap
  • Remove points from ratings
  • Make a separate Badge Level and Overall Level
 
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Math everywhere…
And all this assuming you daily spam rate games, game contributions, arts… + earn all mediums and easies

So yeah, Level 65 isn’t so much of a feat, is it?

If you can every single day earn 70 points via spam rating, thats a feat


OR YOU CAN GET THERE WITHOUT A SINGLE BADGE AND SHIT IN 1,5 YEARS LOL!!!

Even more and impressive… though you’re a slime if you do
It’s like successfully stealing Kohi-i-noor. It’s impressive accomplishment but most people doesn’t look that as good

• Raise Level Cap

Doesn’t solve spam rating problem, sorry

 
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I’m pretty sure the level cap will be raised once you can achieve level 65 through badges only.

 
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That extra 5,000 from BOTD is assuming you have already earned the badge, so it should really be 19,000 in a year without playing any games. I get your point otherwise, but you actually don’t see many level 65s around. There aren’t many players that would rate 19,240 games without playing one and it’s just too dull for a person to do.

I mainly posted this to see my new and improved photoshopped avatar in the forums, since I’m too lazy to backtrack my forum posts btw :)

 
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If you can every single day earn 70 points via spam rating, thats a feat

It’s 50 a day with games, and 20 a week with collabs/user submissions, not each day for them.

Doesn’t solve spam rating problem, sorry

It’s sort of been “solved” already, since in early 2008 there was no cap on how many you could rate each day, then they implemented a 30 per day cap (very briefly, mind you), and then finally to what we have now at 50 games per 24 hour time period. Darkruler has one of the better suggestions, if I remember it correctly it was to just allow people to press a button on the homepage to award 50 points each day, and let people rate games as they please, so instead of having to press 50 buttons, you press 1 (making it much easier to get points), and not “messing up” the ratings of games as much, so there is a tradeoff.


you actually don’t see many level 65s around

Considering that 2 years ago there weren’t even 20 people at 65 and now there are probably in excess of 60, that’s a dramatic increase given the age of the site.


Raising the cap isn’t much of an issue still, as it’s just a number that’s meaningless in reality. You can still earn points after you reach level 65, so it’s not really an “end point.” As previously said, once badges alone can get you to the level cap, since badges are the main reason for points, it will probably be raised for a third time.

 
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You can get to Level 65 in a year without getting a SINGLE Hard badge nor Impossible.
Also, without referrals nor uploaded games.

Add that to an average of 13 points per day with BOTD (It was 12.6/d from March to December in 2011) and you get 4,745 points in a year.

If you don’t get any hard or imp badges, you aren’t gonna be getting all of the BOTDs. This would drastically lower the average points per day for BOTD. DERP!

 
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Considering that 2 years ago there weren’t even 20 people at 65

I remember there not being even 5.

Make a separate Badge Level and Overall Level

This is the best suggestion, really. Though it all does remove the desire to rate a game, as you can see in websites like YouTube where videos with 50 million views have less than 50k likes+dislikes.

or imp

DERP

 
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I certainly wouldn’t mind raising the cap to level 70, but I don’t think it’s one of Kong’s major focuses any time soon!!~~~

 
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I remember there not being even 5.

As do I, but I was just giving 20 as an example because I know the exact date that there were 20 at level 65, and it was a short(ish) while ago, easier to relate to a more recent time period than to say “4 years ago…” because it makes a more dramatic presence. Kongregate had been around for about 3.5 years when there were 20, and just 2 years later there are probably at least three times the number at the level cap, better than to say that there are twelve times more after 4 more years when you’re relating to a very small initial number.


Separate levels can reduce an urge to get points from rating games/referring other people/making games, but it all depends on which level is shown where (will all be shown in chat, or just badge level?), and which ones have what implications (beta game testing, you can’t assume it would be for badge points since people who rate games might know more about what makes a game good than someone who simply plays for badges, which is what beta testing games is about, it’s a fine line).

 
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but I was just giving 20 as an example because I know the exact date that there were 20 at level 65

Oh. What I’m saying is that I recall there being only 5 Level 65s 2 years ago, like late 2009 and early 2010
Alternative solution: Make rating cap 10 points, after that you can still rate.

 
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if only level actually mattered for anything

i rate any games that i actually play, but really only to share my opinion. take away the 1 point per game and i would still rate at the same frequency

other than that, my only source of points is badges.

also, this is not a discovery. id say this has been pretty well known for a while. just look at jayisgames

 
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I don’t even understand why there is a level cap.

 
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Yeah, level cap should be… I donno, 99?

 
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Originally posted by velricreize:

but I was just giving 20 as an example because I know the exact date that there were 20 at level 65

Oh. What I’m saying is that I recall there being only 5 Level 65s 2 years ago, like late 2009 and early 2010

Uh, not possible, since I was the 20th to reach level 65, and I did so on February 12th 2010, and I know for sure that there weren’t 5 at that point, probably in late 2008 to early 2009 time period there were 5 (JiG, OML, ecrans, and two others I can definitely see having had the points back then).


Originally posted by bobby71983:

also, this is not a discovery. id say this has been pretty well known for a while. just look at jayisgames

He got almost all of his points from referrals, this thread is about how you can get to the level cap basically from only rating games and getting a select few badges in under a year now.


Originally posted by GameBuilder15:

I don’t even understand why there is a level cap.

I think that there’s one so that there’s an attainable goal for people to aim for, rather than some arbitrary “get as high of a level as possible.”


EDIT @below: If anything, I’d like to see a rounder number such as 100, or maybe use 128 as the cap since the current cap was raised from 64 which is a power of 2, the next in the series is 128 (though I think this might be a little bit too high, it would be far too many points for anyone to realistically think of going for). Once you get into the 60s, you need 2,000+ points per level and it would just increase from there, so by level 80 you’d be looking at an enormous amount compared to what the current cap is.

 
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They should at least raise the cap. To 99 or even 999.

 
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Originally posted by GameBuilder15:

I don’t even understand why there is a level cap.

I think that there’s one so that there’s an attainable goal for people to aim for, rather than some arbitrary “get as high of a level as possible.”

Also for image considerations – 3 digits on a level bug, plus kong doesn’t even generate the image dynamically, so they’d have to add tons of little level bugs to their site.

 
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Originally posted by BobTheCoolGuy:

Originally posted by GameBuilder15:

I don’t even understand why there is a level cap.

I think that there’s one so that there’s an attainable goal for people to aim for, rather than some arbitrary “get as high of a level as possible.”

Also for image considerations – 3 digits on a level bug, plus kong doesn’t even generate the image dynamically, so they’d have to add tons of little level bugs to their site.

Well, I can’t remember the link right now, but they do actually have the sprites up to level 999, so that’s not the main issue. As I said in my edit a couple of posts above this one, once you get into the (theoretical) 80s, you’d need double around double the points required to reach 65, which would be a very large amount to anyone who’s just starting out.


EDIT: There’s this sprite page which goes up to 100, but it’s not the one I was talking about. Still, this seems to be the main sprite page, and it goes to 100, so you can still say that it’s a possibility.

 
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Raising the cap right now is stupid, seeing as nobody can get there without stupid referrals or mass rating.
Just make Badge Levels WITHOUT actual cap, since the cap will be defined by the badges and raised every time new badges are released.

 
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Doesn’t solve spam rating problem, sorry

Velricreizes point was in raising level cap was the idea that now you couldn’t reach maximum level by spam rating anymore
My point is: How do you deduct number of spam raters?

Think about it realisticly: By raising level cap you give more points to earn for level ups
Sure this is good for badge addicts and referral maniacs, but also for spam raters as it now gives a reason for longer time span to keep spam rating


It’s sort of been “solved” already, since in early 2008 there was no cap on how many you could rate each day, then they implemented a 30 per day cap (very briefly, mind you), and then finally to what we have now at 50 games per 24 hour time period. Darkruler has one of the better suggestions, if I remember it correctly it was to just allow people to press a button on the homepage to award 50 points each day, and let people rate games as they please, so instead of having to press 50 buttons, you press 1 (making it much easier to get points), and not “messing up” the ratings of games as much, so there is a tradeoff.

Still, even if there is 50 ratings per day limit, people still fully uses it (alias ‘50 points per day’ is way too much for just 10-15 minutes clicking progress)
Also, not to mention the effect of these ratings to games. Spam rating gives us unrealistic game rating values as some people have complained,
so it’s not yet solved. 50 points from rating per day is too much IMHO



I’ve been supporting raise of level cap ever since my 60’s (date when I reached level 60). Boost in spam rating is one problem alongside with others, that’s what I’m trying to point out, but it does not completely disable possibilty to raise that level cap due benefits it can offer

Summarization: Raising level cap does not solve spam rating, in fact, it likely boosts it



An actual suggestion I liked: only 10 points from rating per day

If you think of typical kongregate user, you don’t usually find him/her to rate more than over 10 games per day
So this 10 rating limit wouldn’t hassle it
Still, there would be spam raters, even more (due easiness of to rate just 10 games) in fact but the effect of spam rating would be 5x smaller to community
(referring to points and ratings of games)

Estimately I could say that 5x less effect from spam ratings is more beneficial to kongregate than boost in spam rater userbase

With 5x lesser points from full daily rating, there is now no way you could reach maximum level cap in year by rating earning only easier badges
Points collected from spam ratings (and referrals) distorts your level, especially since people tend to think levels are earned mostly from badges. That’s why velricreize suggested separate levels for badges and other crap

Separate levels can reduce an urge to get points from rating games/referring other people/making games, but it all depends on which level is shown where (will all be shown in chat, or just badge level?)

That’s a striking problem in velricreizes suggestion for separating levels.
Second problem is that raising another level cap which is separated from badges makes it a goal for users > even more spam raters
And naturally the best way to do it is to fill it with spam ratings… har har har… unless you’re a developer or mass referrer like jayisgames



Ever since kongregate was established, they applied a policy to encourage people to rate games in exchange of points
It’d pretty radical twist to change all that, and you’d see consequences pretty rapidly: There might happen same effect as in YouTube: A game withing 1million plays reached has only 10000 or less ratings total

And some positive effects from this feature: No more spam rating! Yay for that



But back to raising level cap: If there’s going to be level cap raise, I hope kong staff implements it alongside with new rating limit of 10

Points should be earned from badges and BoTD’s and from developing which requires effort. Spam rating is too far away from that
The only problem I see is that now you have to spend really, I mean really long time actively earning points in order to reach full level cap, but at least it’d more fairly earned

 
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Maik, you raise some excellent points, many which I can not argue with without sounding like I’m pulling at straws, so I’ll leave those alone. There are, however, a few points I’d like to rehash.

Firstly, there’s your line that states:

An actual suggestion I liked: only 10 points from rating per day

To which I re-mention the thread I previously posted about the initial rating cap being 30 games per day, and that was years ago that people had an issue with it. If you’d like to read through it all, I’m sure that there are points arguing for and against both perspectives, however, one which I like is that reducing the rating cap essentially puts the people at the top of the leader boards in an impossible-to-reach position. If people can realistically only “earn” 10 points each day from non-gaming, then people at the top of the leader boards will not be reached, effectively, ever (especially those who “earn” points from referrals in excess of what can be achieved from other methods daily). Currently, it’s extremely possible to get up to the top, from a combination of gaming and rating games, I should know, but without the rating limit that’s currently in place, it would be very, very difficult to reach the people who get points from referrals. Perhaps referral points should be limited as well? I’m not sure what the best course of action is right now.

Another point which you made is that:

Also, not to mention the effect of these ratings to games. Spam rating gives us unrealistic rating values as some people have complained

If you think of typical kongregate user, you don’t usually find him/her to rate more than over 10 games per day

So what again is the current issue? If the average person (read: over 90% of the users (read: active accounts) on the site) don’t rate more than 10 games per day, and, of those who do rate more than 10 each day (I honestly don’t know how many people rate how often), 50% are people who “spam-rate,” and, of those who do, 50% rate an amount which varies from the current average (such as if the average is around 3 and they rate otherwise), that’s a very, very small portion of people rating games. You can also argue that for every “spam-rater” who rates below the current game average, there is one who rates above, or whatever percentage gives you the current game average (if the game average is 3.67, two could rate 5 and one could rate 1, my math is probably wrong here though), effectively not changing the average. As far as I know, you cannot prove or disprove this, though you can assume that it’s not extremely likely. Still, I personally will rate games around (usually just above) their current average, unless I have some reason to believe that it does not deserve that rating (such as if I’ve already played the game, since I currently am rating games that are all at least a month old). Basically, you never know how much these “spam-raters” are actually affecting the rating, it’s just a concept that some developed to try to deter it.

It also depends on your definition of “spam-rate,” since you also said:

Still, there would be spam raters, even more (due easiness of to rate just 10 games)

So why would someone suddenly start rating 10 games in the future when they can also rate 10 now? People didn’t know about the original cap of 30 per day until a thread was started about it, there was no announcement, I can distinctly remember only noticing it because I had tried to rate my 31st game that day. If it ever gets pushed down to 10, no one would notice unless they already had an urge to rate more than 10, so it wouldn’t really increase the community. Also, is it really “spam-rating” if you rate the maximum amount? 10 games does not seem like a lot to rate in 24 hours (I know it isn’t part of any real discussion, but still just a point, if the cap was 1 game it wouldn’t be “spam-rating” to rate 1 game).


I think that we’ve gone a little off-topic here, I’d be glad to continue this through whispers though. I know I’m coming off as quite stubborn here, but it’s just because I feel like no one can see the full picture entirely, and no one knows why people do what they do for points. People who don’t “spam-rate” games feel that it’s a bad thing, people who do feel that it’s a perfectly valid method by which to get points (the only reason there’s a cap is because some people ruined it with bots anyways) seeing as how it’s a part of the site. Is it unfair for some to get thousands of points from referrals without being limited by a daily/weekly cap (both because there are daily and weekly limits for rating different things)? What about points for making games, especially for people like this who have pumped out 1,372 games (and counting) and gotten points from each of them? It’s all situational.

 
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Raise the level cap, level 65 users are bored.

 
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Originally posted by Zhoom:

Raise the level cap, level 65 users are bored.

Well, that’s one way to put it, but I’d say that it’s more of a feeling of being at an end-point, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. It offers a sense of achievement and more of a purpose to levels. If there’s no cap, for example, then all they really represent are milestones.

And I just thought of something else to say (I say too much, sorry) in regards to a quote of Maik’s:

Still, there would be spam raters, even more (due easiness of to rate just 10 games)

The thing which this says to me is that if something is quicker to do, there’s a greater chance that more people will go through the trouble of doing it. Well, by raising the level cap, it becomes harder to reach, does that mean that not as many people will go through as much trouble to reach it? If so, then there will be less people “spam-rating,” correct? I know that it’s a stretch to equate the two concepts, but in a sense they work.

 
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I find that badge master helps out a lot when going for a new milestone. You can add a whole bunch of people with varying badge points, and then pick the closest one above your current amount as your next target and keep on climbing.

 
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To which I re-mention the thread I previously posted about the initial rating cap being 30 games per day, and that was years ago that people had an issue with it. If you’d like to read through it all, I’m sure that there are points arguing for and against both perspectives, however, one which I like is that reducing the rating cap essentially puts the people at the top of the leader boards in an impossible-to-reach position. If people can realistically only “earn” 10 points each day from non-gaming, then people at the top of the leader boards will not be reached, effectively, ever (especially those who “earn” points from referrals in excess of what can be achieved from other methods daily). Currently, it’s extremely possible to get up to the top, from a combination of gaming and rating games, I should know, but without the rating limit that’s currently in place, it would be very, very difficult to reach the people who get points from referrals. Perhaps referral points should be limited as well? I’m not sure what the best course of action is right now.

SOLUTION: MAKE BADGE LEVEL

 
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Raise the level cap, level 65 users are “feeling like they’re at the end-point although that’s not necessarily a bad thing because it offers a sense of achievement” (or bored).