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MMOs Are Ruining Kongregate... page 3

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Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

you also arent restricted as much as you think

The very fact you need to argue this bothers me. There is an inherent problem with game developers if they need to restrict your gaming abilities with the only solution to temporarily remove them for a crapload of money.

i do not feel restricted playing backyard monsters or dream world. as i have played backyard monsters for about 6 months and dream world for almost 1 year, i know how the games work.

of course both games have the option to buy stuff, but the micro transaction system in both of these games is acceptable to me because the only way to really buy power is to put in a huge amount of money. you put $50 in either game and you barely make a scratch.

i see no major problem with how either of these specific two games are structured.

there are definitely some bad mmos out there that fit the complaints you talk about constantly, but those games in question have a constantly declining player base for the very reasons you say that you dont like them. dream world and backyard monsters have not had the success they have had because of the micro transaction system, its because they are very free-player friendly.

 
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There are degrees of “MMO shittiness”, that’s true. I’m sure Dream World and Backyard Monsters aren’t on top of that list. However, they’re not on the bottom. Dream World has an energy system and Backyard Monsters upgrades quickly rise to a number of days per time.

 
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I thought Dream World was awful. 1/5

 
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MMOs aren’t entirely useless. They made me realise that having to play TDs and Sonny just to get badges isn’t all that bad in the scheme of things.

 
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Originally posted by MrWiggles49:

I thought Dream World was awful. 1/5

Not many people would argue with you on that.

 
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Yeah I want more original, maybe even a little shitty, short, fun games to be promoted more.

 
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Originally posted by oOTrentOo:

Yeah I want more original, maybe even a little shitty, short, fun games to be promoted more.

like todays badged game? 15 minutes to finish it and zero replay value. thats the kind of game we need more of!

 
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What is bobby smoking today…

Backyard monsters is a exact copy of Kingdoms of camelot, Caesary, and all those games.
All of them have only a few things changed, but nothing of value.

Dream world, well it speaks for it’s self.
There’s a ghetto Mafia Wars right there, completely relied on energy.
There are a few changes, but nothing of value.
It’s the same game, stolen, and then changed slightly so it would be looked over for a longer amount of time, and then published.

Have you seen Backyard Monsters community, anyways?
It’s terrible.
I mean most of kongregate’s community is bad in the first place, but that game is even a few steps lower.

 
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Originally posted by bobby71983:
Originally posted by oOTrentOo:

Yeah I want more original, maybe even a little shitty, short, fun games to be promoted more.

like todays badged game? 15 minutes to finish it and zero replay value. thats the kind of game we need more of!

Ah, but see those 15 minutes were fun. And there was still time to, you know — go outside and live a little.

 
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Originally posted by LouWeed:
Originally posted by bobby71983:
Originally posted by oOTrentOo:

Yeah I want more original, maybe even a little shitty, short, fun games to be promoted more.

like todays badged game? 15 minutes to finish it and zero replay value. thats the kind of game we need more of!

Ah, but see those 15 minutes were fun. And there was still time to, you know — go outside and live a little.

I’d prefer to see more 15 minute games badged instead of the ones that require repeated visits. Put the badges on games that deserve them instead of the games that will bring in the most income. Last time I checked, just because a game brings in money doesn’t mean it is good or successful.

 
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Originally posted by EndlessSporadic:
Originally posted by LouWeed:
Originally posted by bobby71983:
Originally posted by oOTrentOo:

Yeah I want more original, maybe even a little shitty, short, fun games to be promoted more.

like todays badged game? 15 minutes to finish it and zero replay value. thats the kind of game we need more of!

Ah, but see those 15 minutes were fun. And there was still time to, you know — go outside and live a little.

I’d prefer to see more 15 minute games badged instead of the ones that require repeated visits. Put the badges on games that deserve them instead of the games that will bring in the most income. Last time I checked, just because a game brings in money doesn’t mean it is good or successful.

im all for kong admins lowering their badging standards and spam badging more short games.

the problem with games like these are the zero replay value, so i need many of them frequently to keep me interested.

i enjoyed todays game whatever it was called, but once its down, then what do i do? i personally go back to my mmo’s

 
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Most Everyone’s Side:

Games are about fun. If a game is fun, it is a good game. Length isn’t relevant to how much fun a game is (Mardek Vs Sonny); and badges aren’t really important. Normally, games have to be relatively high quality to receive badges and attention; but recently Kong has been focusing more attention on “MMOs” because they make more money… Without considering whether the game is actually enjoyable. These “MMOs” are an issue because they lead to exploitation of stupid people; and encourage game-makers to focus on money instead of quality. A game should earn the money it receives; by being of a high quality.

Bobby’s Side:

Firstly, you need to consider that he’s a fucking imbecile.

A game can not be good unless it can last indefinitely. It’s okay to prevent a game from being fun if it makes it last longer: After all, once a game is finished, it’s not worth returning to. Badges are also very important: If there aren’t any badges, there’s no reason to play games… It’s the small scrap of self-pride in badge earning that makes it worth laboring through a game. Also, game devs deserve money, because they’ve made a game. As a member of the unsuspecting public; I am unaware that game devs are outright lying to me about “how high server costs are” and “how hard it is to make a game”. As such, I believe that anyone who is capable of making (Or ripping, as is more often the case) an energy bar and a cash API deserves to make a living from that project.

 
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anyone with the opinion that is in your first paragraph is quite simply wrong. i was reading the clash of the dragons forum today and someone dumped $800 on a new update(and he claims he got nothing good from it) and another put $300 in(also claiming nothing good) if people are going to just give you that kind of money so easily then you are a complete liar if you say no to it. i would estimate they made at least $10k today alone. you know you wouldnt turn down easy money like that so dont even pretend that you wouldnt.

also, its ridiculously easy to ignore the games you dont want to play.

tyrant gets challenge rewards and expansions often and is advertised. hasnt made me wanna play.
fantasy online has had a few, i dont want to play it.
chronicles of herenvale has had a few, i dont want to play it.
crystal saga got a reward last week, i dont want to play it.
call of gods spammed me with a new update a while back, i dont want to play it.
(insert any other game kong has advertised) i only play continue to play it if it really interests me.

i only play the games that i want to play and nothing kong does is affecting this(other than badging it, which only serves to alert me that the game exists) the people complaining about mmo’s are really just whining. you dont have a case. you are under no obligation to do anything. if this was a courtroom the judge would throw his gavel at you and tell you to quit wasting his time.

 
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Originally posted by bobby71983:

anyone with the opinion that is in your first paragraph is quite simply wrong.

So opinions fall into the realm of wrong now? Explain.
And as Mr. Catface said, fun isn’t dependent on time.
No one really cares which MMO’s you do or don’t play – it’s simply irrelevant.
You play the games you want, really? Advertisements are used for one reason and one reason alone – they work.

 
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the problem with games like these are the zero replay value

MMOs have no replay value.. They have artificial restrictions on your gaming time in place so it looks like there’s an immense amount of time to be spent on it. Is that really what makes a good game? I mean, take a look at Mardek. Should Pseudo make a Mardek MMO where you have 100 energy, every step you take takes 1 energy, and every battle 5? Chapter 3 would take years to complete. Replay value to the maximum! Good game? No, that would turn the most awesome series in the most terrible one (well, aside from many of the MMOs). Replay value is only an issue when it’s actually replay value, and not horrible gameplay restrictions to increase the time required to beat stuff in-game.

 
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Originally posted by MooseMoosington:
Originally posted by bobby71983:

anyone with the opinion that is in your first paragraph is quite simply wrong.

So opinions fall into the realm of wrong now? Explain.
And as Mr. Catface said, fun isn’t dependent on time.
No one really cares which MMO’s you do or don’t play – it’s simply irrelevant.
You play the games you want, really? Advertisements are used for one reason and one reason alone – they work.

advertisements only work if the game is enjoyable enough to keep you. if i try the game and i dont like it, i just disregard any more advertising as spam. i have yet to return to an MMO that i decided i didnt originally like, no amount of advertisement has changed that. advertising is however the main way you hear about games, but once youve tried it, you form an opinion. any future advertising the game gets is spam.

and yes the opinion can be wrong. cat said two things that are flat out wrong.

A game should earn the money it receives; by being of a high quality.

this is a nonsense statement. maintaining and making mmo’s requires far more effort and money than any other genre of game. with most games you just upload it and then thats it, your done. with mmo’s you need to constantly maintain it or else you are gonna lose your players. mmo devs earn their paychecks more than any other dev.

but recently Kong has been focusing more attention on “MMOs” because they make more money… Without considering whether the game is actually enjoyable.

an opinion with no facts to support it. if you are gonna make a claim like this then say its your opinion, because it has no factual basis. many people enjoy MMOs, myself included. just because its not your favorite genre doesnt mean anything.

 
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Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

the problem with games like these are the zero replay value

MMOs have no replay value.. They have artificial restrictions on your gaming time in place so it looks like there’s an immense amount of time to be spent on it. Is that really what makes a good game? I mean, take a look at Mardek. Should Pseudo make a Mardek MMO where you have 100 energy, every step you take takes 1 energy, and every battle 5? Chapter 3 would take years to complete. Replay value to the maximum! Good game? No, that would turn the most awesome series in the most terrible one (well, aside from many of the MMOs). Replay value is only an issue when it’s actually replay value, and not horrible gameplay restrictions to increase the time required to beat stuff in-game.

the energy system only really works in a multiplayer game as a way to prevent a single player from zooming ahead unless they spend. there would be almost no incentive for a dev to do this in a single player game. people do it in multiplayer games so they can feel powerful over others. without the multiplayer aspect, this wouldnt happen.

the game you described would be garbage anyway because traditional RPGs have a set way that they flow, restricting by the amount of battles you can do would be a complete flop.

you are using an extreme example that would never happen.

 
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MMOs are meant to be never-ending. They’re not something that you can just play through until the end and be finished—because you can never be finished with them. MMOs are like idle games in that you play them when you have nothing else to do (and/or you play them for a little bit every day and then get on with the rest of your life). As bobby mentioned, restrictions in MMOs are in place for competitive balance purposes, not for revenue purposes (I would actually like it better if all options to spend money were removed, but that’s a different story).

Saying MMOs have 0 replay value doesn’t make sense—because you’re never replaying the game. The game never ends.

If you don’t like games that never end, that’s fine—you’re entitled to your opinion. But don’t call those of us who do idiots.

 
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maintaining and making mmo’s requires far more effort and money than any other genre of game.

Where, oh where did people start beleiving this? I think this ridiculously incorrect statement is the single most-used justification I’ve seen. Firstly: A game doesn’t cost anything to develop, unless you’re outsourcing half your work to China or Korea. Secondly, server costs are barely visible. Unless you’ve just got a badly designed game; your server costs should be tiny. If you’re running it yourself, it would only be the cost of the server hardware; and whatever minimal fraction of your power bill you feel like attributing to it. The main reason these MMOs rent servers is because they can host the game from a country with no copyright laws or enforcement.

As far as Darkruler’s “Mardek ‘MMO’” example: Look at Epic War Saga. The game is now even more of a pile of crap than ever before; and is running an energy system… And all the best stuff is cash-buy.

 
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Originally posted by racefan12:

As bobby mentioned, restrictions in MMOs are in place for competitive balance purposes, not for revenue purposes

This is complete BS and you know it.

 
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Originally posted by MrWiggles49:
Originally posted by racefan12:

As bobby mentioned, restrictions in MMOs are in place for competitive balance purposes, not for revenue purposes

This is complete BS and you know it.

If I didn’t believe it to be true, I wouldn’t have said it. Contrary to popular belief, not every MMO developer is a money-hungry jerk. I’m sorry if that’s been your experience, but don’t go around making hasty generalizations because of it.

 
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While I don’t like most of the mmo’s here, I don’t hate them. However, the constant ads for them are begginning to get annoying.

 
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Personally, I do not like MMOs because of the game-play interactions with others. I would rather that the only interaction in any game be the chat and maybe an arena system where anyone that does take part in it wants to take part in it. I literally loathe, despise and detest Pking/Pkers.

Anyways, I do agree about the BS concept of micro-transactions in games whether MMO or single player. The worst I have ever seen is a game called Nodiatis. (Warning: If you check into Nodiatis by playing it, the community sucks big time.)

I do not have a problem with games that offer so much for free and everything else for a single payment or even on a subscription basis. An example ( I know this will make some of you cringe) would be Run-Escape. Again, the problem there is the forced interactions and Jagex caving in to the feeble players that keep whining that the game is too hard because they are not at the top of the high scores list in two days. If Runescape was a single player game with only a chat to interact with I would still be playing it.

I find it most annoying on Kongregate when MMOs appear in the recommended games list because I rated a single player game highly?

I also find it annoying that I can not preview a game, read about it, without that game showing up like I played it in the recently played games section.

Where is that option to block a game at? Is it by where you can add the game to your favorites?

 
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I know what you mean. I have literally had the 3 exact same games in my “recommended games” section since that feature was added. I have no interest in playing them whatsoever and yet there is no option to skip them. A bunch of the other little things they have added here and there annoy the shit out of me too.

 
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Where is that option to block a game at? Is it by where you can add the game to your favorites?

Yep! Near the rating stars, next to “Flag Game”.

I also find it annoying that I can not preview a game, read about it, without that game showing up like I played it in the recently played games section.

That would be very useful!

I have no interest in playing them whatsoever and yet there is no option to skip them.

If you rate a game, it should remove it from the list. You can also hover over the game and select the “x” to remove it from the list.