Forums Kongregate

Kreds Discussion page 24

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I like the developer rule.

You like making games and want to make money? No microtransactions.

You like making money and want to make games? Microtransactions are for you.

On another topic:

So many developers on FGL are so confused why there are people making a fuss about kreds.

 
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Originally posted by kirdaiht:

well, if you feel like kreds are ruining the site, there are several things you could do.
1. Ignore the kreds. Just pretend the OPTIONAL paid content isn’t there. You will still be able to play the game (For free!), but once you mastered the art of ignoring, you will no longer be bothered by the kreds.
2. Boycot the games. If you notice optional paid content, just don’t play the game.
3. GTFO. If you can’t stand the fact that there is paid content here, find yourself an other gaming website or make one yourself.

Don’t like these options? Fine. but STOP WHINING!

what pisses me off the most is when i buy extras (BTD4)i cantr use em on kong just cuz i boght it from the orriginal suporter of the game >.>

i dont mind them making it buyable in kerds but i got ripped off. it was quite implid that the game had infact mochicoins additions on it. and that is something that when i started up on kongregate i did not notice that it was a difrent system (save files arent the same as it works by log on) if they let you with SAB (and yea they do if you go to xgen and buy your pass there) why cant i do it with BTD4?

 
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But Kreds really and truly are destroying this site.

Note that every person saying this only ever makes this claim and doesn’t explain any reason why.

If Kong really needed to attract developers then the tip system should be set up using paypal accounts so people actually know what they’re spending.

I’m sure you can calculate the price of an option when you know the price of kreds.

I have also had it up to here with games on this site trying to get me to pay to use them. Games like Heroes of Gaia, Remnants of Skystone, Battledawn, and Bloons TD4 etc. have no business being on a FREE GAMES website.

That’s like saying the Sun should not be in our SOLAR system.

Unless and until games like these are either removed or modified to actually be free games, Kongregate really needs to remove the “Free Games” slogan from its title.

Name one game which isn’t free to play.

what pisses me off the most is when i buy extras (BTD4)i cantr use em on kong just cuz i boght it from the orriginal suporter of the game >.>

I’m not sure how this works, but I believe you can transfer your savegame. If not, try to strike a deal with the developer and Kongregate by whispering either.

 
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Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

Name one game which isn’t free to play.

Exactly! ^
All games on Kongregate are free.
It’s a simple choice of whether you want to buy a few extras in a certain game, or not.
Like for BTD4, you can get the badges regardless of whether or not you donate kreds in-game.
Sure, you may finish the game a bit faster, but that’s actually a kind thing for the developers to do.
(Yes, the developers are kind for letting us spend money for bonuses in their games) xD

 
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Due to the new comment rating/popularity system, it is obvious when visiting btd4 that the majority of people are upset about kreds being in the game. The highest rated comment with 5,466 +’s is “Kred’s really are ruining this site…”, and there are no opposing comments that I can see.

I believe Kongregate has good intentions, but I can see no reason for them to incorporate kreds into games like this. The initial purpose of kreds was to give kreds as tips to developers who made good games. This was a great idea because there were no obligations, and it allowed users to give back to the developers. I thought the real purpose was so independent developers could get good money from tips even if they weren’t associated with a big-name flash company. For example, the game “William and Sly” is my favorite flash game of all time, and it is made by Kajenx(a guy who just enjoys making flash games), so the kreds system would give me the chance to show him my appreciate for his efforts.

Now, I have played games(not flash games, real ones) that are “free to play”, with cash shops in them, and I have even paid for in-game monies in some of these games, so please don’t mark me as a microtransaction hater. One of these games, Allods(a newer better WoW), advertised itself as totally free to play, when in fact you really had to pay if you wanted to get anywhere in pvp. I still didn’t really mind even though the developers were very misleading, because I enjoyed the game, and I figured it was cheaper than paying for a WoW subscription anyway.

I see many people giving examples of how people are complaining about something that doesn’t affect them, and calling them whiners. People are complaining because they feel like it does affect them, so don’t belittle what they are saying and don’t insult them.

This guy pretty much sums up all of the opposition on here that I have seen.

Originally posted by kirdaiht:

well, if you feel like kreds are ruining the site, there are several things you could do.
1. Ignore the kreds. Just pretend the OPTIONAL paid content isn’t there. You will still be able to play the game (For free!), but once you mastered the art of ignoring, you will no longer be bothered by the kreds.
2. Boycot the games. If you notice optional paid content, just don’t play the game.
3. GTFO. If you can’t stand the fact that there is paid content here, find yourself an other gaming website or make one yourself.

Don’t like these options? Fine. but STOP WHINING!

Here is my response
well, if you feel like kreds complaints shouldn’t be on the forums, there are several things you could do.
1. Ignore the kreds threads. Just pretend the OPTIONAL free content isn’t there. You will still be able to view the rest of the forum (For free!), but once you mastered the art of ignoring, you will no longer be bothered by the kreds threads.
2. Boycot the threads. If you notice optional kreds threads, just don’t view them.
3. GTFO. If you can’t stand the fact that there are complaints here, find yourself an other gaming website or make one yourself.

Don’t like these options? Fine. but STOP WHINING!
(Also, I don’t think kongregates response to any problem is going to be that it’s users need to all leave. You certainly thought this one out though…)

This user and many others are not continuing the conversation, but this is something that users need to discuss so that kongregate knows what we want. I have heard a lot of “I hate kreds” or “It’s stupid to hate kreds, they don’t effect you”, but I have not heard any “I love the way you can spend money for upgrades!”, because anyone with a brain knows that the upgrades would otherwise be there for free. The tip system is great, and kreds have potential, but not like we are being shown with games that extort the user.

The way that kreds are being incorporated into some games on kongregate now is offensive to many players because this is a place that they are comfortable visiting; they have been here a while and they know the site. This new system makes it seem like kreds are becoming less of an optional thing. Even if it is completely free to play, many people feel like it is hanging over their heads while they play and it ruins the experience. Imagine if you normally go to the beach for vacation, and you always go jet skiing there. Every time you go, the jet ski fee is free, the hotel covers the charge. This year when you go, you get on the jet ski and on the seat in front of you there is a credit card swiper. If you don’t use it, the jet ski only runs up to 20 mph, but every ten dollars you pay you can go 10mph faster! Yes, there are other beaches you can go to(but does kongregate want us to leave over such a small thing?), and yes, you could just go 20mph and ignore the swiper(but I personally am not the limp gutted husk of a man it would take to do that), and the experience is forever tainted either way. This is how people feel, and this is what is happening on kongregate for a lot of people, so stop acting like kreds don’t change anything, because they do, and a lot of people aren’t happy about it.

 
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The initial purpose of kreds was to give kreds as tips to developers who made good games.

The initial purpose of Kreds was and will always be to make money. Kongregate needs to be profitable, and, from the looks of it, micro-transactions are the factor that are going to make them profitable.

I have heard a lot of “It’s stupid to not like kreds”, but I have not heard any “I love the way you can spend money for upgrades!”, because anyone with a brain knows that the upgrades would otherwise be there for free.

No, the paid options are what make the game possible to exist in that state. Complex games require lots of time and effort (and thus money) to make. In order to get a good return rate, developers need (they don’t want to, really) to put in paid content to make themselves profitable so they can keep on making games.

Your analogy is interesting, but the games you’ve always liked are still free-to-play, and most of the new games that include paid content are more complex than games were before. As flash gaming is shifting to be more of an industry, complex (and better) games can be made. They need paid content to exist though.

Do not forget you are still getting a FREE experience and you should be thankful for it. If you want to play any game on a console you have to pay beforehand. If you dislike paid content, see the ‘free part’ as demos (like with ‘real’ games) and the ‘paid content’ as the full game (although the rate is significantly off in favor of the free content). Like with other games, if you did not like the demo, you will not buy the full game. If you did like the demo, there is a good chance you will buy the full game. Same applies to flash gaming. If you did not like the free content, do not buy (or even think about) the paid content. If you did, why not consider buying?

 
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“The initial purpose of Kreds was and will always be to make money. Kongregate needs to be profitable, and, from the looks of it, micro-transactions are the factor that are going to make them profitable.”

Thank you for your response Kioyoh. Kongregate probably isn’t going to reveal their financial state to us, but I doubt that they had to do this to remain profitable, so I assume you are saying they are simply trying to increase revenue. You make it seem that microtransactions automatically make the website more profitable, but if that is not what people want, then I could definitely see it hurting kongregate. Being a website, Kongregate can pretty closely relate the changes they make with the amount of users(free and paying) that visit the site, so time will tell. Whether or not it helps kongregate isn’t really something I can comment on, I can only say that if I were the sole user, it would cut their client base down by 100%. Luckily, everyone has their own tastes and opinions.

“No, the paid options are what make the game possible to exist in that state. Complex games require lots of time and effort (and thus money) to make. In order to get a good return rate, developers need (they don’t want to, really) to put in paid content to make themselves profitable so they can keep on making games.”

I disagree completely in this instance. I am not like jmbt02 who dreams in actionscript, but I can make a decent game, and the way upgrades are incorporated into btd4 is not that way at all. Once you have designed the game, it’s not any work at all to place a button that gives you double cash or auto level up. What you are saying could definitely be true(and I am positive it is with a lot of games on other sites where microtransactions are essential, also with real games like Allods), but is definitely not what I see here. If you are looking at the potential for it to bring us better flash games, then I see nothing to gain from it as anything that is better will be paid content. And yes, technically nothing is changed, but that does not mean that there is no change at all.

“Your analogy is interesting, but the games you’ve always liked are still free-to-play, and most of the new games that include paid content are more complex than games were before. As flash gaming is shifting to be more of an industry, complex (and better) games can be made. They need paid content to exist though.”

You are right about the flash market shifting to paid content, but that does not mean kongregate needs paid content to thrive. Kongregate can become the last bastion of good free games. Also, you assume that more complex games with more funding behind them are better, but I hope you would realize after looking back that you were mistaken. Again, I must throw a shoutout to my favorite independent developer, Kajenx, and his many successful games.

“Do not forget you are still getting a FREE experience and you should be thankful for it. If you want to play any game on a console you have to pay beforehand. If you dislike paid content, see the ‘free part’ as demos (like with ‘real’ games) and the ‘paid content’ as the full game (although the rate is significantly off in favor of the free content). Like with other games, if you did not like the demo, you will not buy the full game. If you did like the demo, there is a good chance you will buy the full game. Same applies to flash gaming. If you did not like the free content, do not buy (or even think about) the paid content. If you did, why not consider buying?”

If kongregate pursues this method of kreds integration in games, it will no longer be a free experience as you suggest. Besides the fact that microtransaction evolution could easily lead to a subscription based service for premium games, the games themselves will not still be a free experience for me. Besides, I will no longer visit this website. I have already gotten the .swf files for many of my favorite games so I can play them locally, and I still visit loyally, but that can change. I do wish kongregate would make the right choice here as this is a really cool community that they have created.

Kongregate used to promote games(by giving them badges and front page awareness) that were simply good. This meant that anyone with a computer and adobe flash player had the opportunity to make the front page. You may say that this will still be possible, but that would be a false promise. Greed is a large part of capitalism, but just because the english language only has one word for greed does not mean that there are not multiple kinds. I would love for kongregate to change the way that they look at kreds.

I wish you would not compare this to console gaming Kioyoh, because console games would not exist without financial backing. And that is exactly where the flash gaming industry is heading. But there are still plenty of people who like making games and plenty of people who like playing said games, and me and a lot of other people thought that kongregate was the place that we could do that. It’s in the name for christ’s sakes. xD

EDIT: I just gotta point out that you assume that funding behind games makes them complex and therefore better. I know you might not mean for it to be interpreted like I am, but still…how can any true gamer make any sort of claim? (I probably sound offensive here, but I am not trying to) Pong was just as fun to the kids that grew up with it as ocarina of time was to me when I grew up. Just because people are making money off of games nowadays doesn’t mean they are getting any better though. A game is a game, all that makes it good is the person that makes it, not the system behind it. That’s why a lot of people like kongregate and that’s why I don’t think they need kreds to do well.

 
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SpinnakerSniper: Kongregate probably isn’t going to reveal their financial state to us

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/28026/Kongregates_Greer_Details_Rise_Of_Virtual_Goods_In_Business.php

SpinnakerSniper: but I doubt that they had to do this to remain profitable

You doubt that based on what? You also claim “remain profitable” on what?

I may be mistaken, but as far as I heard Kongregate wasn’t profitable in relatively recent times. This news of not just breaking even but possibly becoming consistently profitable is actually great.

 
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touche

and with so few words too

I still stand by what I was saying though(Other than my illinformed financial approach)

I am not against microtransactions or against kongeregate doing well by any means, but I think they can make a penny while still having good user-made content

 
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1. Ignore the kreds threads. Just pretend the OPTIONAL free content isn’t there. You will still be able to view the rest of the forum (For free!), but once you mastered the art of ignoring, you will no longer be bothered by the kreds threads.
2. Boycot the threads. If you notice optional kreds threads, just don’t view them.
3. GTFO. If you can’t stand the fact that there are complaints here, find yourself an other gaming website or make one yourself.

You are missing one key point. When this thread drifts off the first page, we will forget about it. Perhaps even the moment we have posted. The OP, and others, however, will not forget about how they hate kreds unless they leave the site. We aren’t particularly bothered by complaints. I’m simply saying that you have the ability to rate 1/5.

anyone with a brain knows that the upgrades would otherwise be there for free

Anyone with a brain knows that otherwise cars are gotten for free.

Just because something has been fully free in the past does not mean it should always be free.

Imagine if you normally go to the beach for vacation, and you always go jet skiing there. Every time you go, the jet ski fee is free, the hotel covers the charge. This year when you go, you get on the jet ski and on the seat in front of you there is a credit card swiper. If you don’t use it, the jet ski only runs up to 20 mph, but every ten dollars you pay you can go 10mph faster!

This analogy would work better like this:

There’s a beach, free of charge to be there. You can use the jet ski, free of charge. Unfortunately, you cannot jet ski all over the world, they have a restricted area in which you can freely move about. You’ve done this every year. This year, however, the hotel has hired a new area to ski in. This costs money, though, so they’re giving the option for users to ski in this extra area for a certain cost. If you don’t do this, you’re free to continue your play in the original, free area. Now:

This is how people feel, and this is what is happening on kongregate for a lot of people, so stop acting like kreds don’t change anything, because they do, and a lot of people aren’t happy about it.

Suddenly this makes people angry. You have exactly the same games, exactly the same free features, and exactly the same amount of content. There’s only one difference, additional, optional content ready for purchase. Now somehow this ruins the site?

The rest of your posts is purely the opinion you don’t like kreds in games, and that is fine. It’s just silly to make a whole thread about it.

 
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This is a reason why kreds fail on Kongregate, 1)Kreds just appeared out of nowhere from 2006, OMG I WANNA SPEND MY POINTS Boom kreds came out. 2)Buying any sort of items make it unfair in ANY way , Omg i need one more grain of rice, 1 cent please.
Its also unliked because i also am a gamer, Online gaming is my thing, And have been on different accounts since 2007. All games promise 100% freedom but all we ask for is -Dont lie just if you are 99% free scream 99% free into our face.

And you people are random!Going from topic of kreds to money to finance to subway to kreds to more marketing prices and finace to jobs now arguing about devolopers(who fall under the subject of “Kreds”
This can go on to 100000 pages, Why? Because theres only 2 things in the world, Opinions and opinions that go against opinions. So clap your hands and stomp your feet and realize that 2 kinds of people are existing-Poor people who argue and rich snotty stuck up brats who yell I HAS ALL TEH KARDS IN KOPORATION I PWN YOU! :D,Which i am a poor person who is attending school,

 
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Listing games that are 100% free . Yea Listing games that is not totally free, World of warcraft, Warcraft I,II,III,Rome total war, Mabinogi, Dungeon Fighter online, Maplestory, Cafe World, Mobsters I,II Vendetta, Kingdom Hearts I,II,II, Final Fantasy,I,II,III.IV,V,VI.VII,VIII,IX,X,XI,XII,XIII, Winback,KONGREGATE,Grand Theft auto series,Left 4 Dead, Left 4 dead 2,Tribal Trouble,Rappelz, Battle Forge, Dark Orbit,Ace Online, Metin2, Everquest, Everquest2, Criminal Origins, Dantes Inferno, and 50000 other thousand games.

 
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is there a way to buy kreds with my amazon turk acount without using a credit card?

 
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Darkruler. You missed my point. I was saying how I felt with my analogy, and how I believe other people feel. You can’t say that’s not how I feel, because it is. You might not feel the same, and that’s fine, but you can’t say I am wrong. I know I am giving my opinion, that’s the point isn’t it?

And I really don’t understand what you were saying omgorange

 
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I see paid content as a way to make better and more complex games possible. Yes, awesome games are made without paid content, and yes, numerous games WITH paid content have sucked, but the possibility is still very promising.

Please note that Kongregate will always and forever be completely free. All games on this site are and will be free to play.

I won’t make a long post Spinnaker, as it seems it now just boils down to pure opinions (and we seem to agree to some degree as well).

 
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These kreds have ruined me… i had a lovely account, i spent 2 and a half years playing on it and getting points and badges, then one day this guy comes along, been friends with him for a while, he offers to buy me kreds… i changed my password for him to buy me some then changed it back when he was done… he lied to me telling me it was his credit card… it wasnt. My account was permanently banned from this arsehole and i never want to see him again… its so unfair! I didnt do anything wrong!

 
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It would be better if Kongregate made it clear that Kred content was buyable in a game somewhere above the game description on the page -before we start doling out tips to the Tip Jar in ignorance.

I don’t mind the Kred system and have given plenty of kreds to many great developers, but discovering premium content in BTD4 only AFTER I’d donated to the Tip Jar miffed me big-time.

 
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its so unfair! I didnt do anything wrong!

Yes you did. You gave out your password.

Originally posted by BadWhippet:

It would be better if Kongregate made it clear that Kred content was buyable in a game somewhere above the game description on the page -before we start doling out tips to the Tip Jar in ignorance.

I don’t mind the Kred system and have given plenty of kreds to many great developers, but discovering premium content in BTD4 only AFTER I’d donated to the Tip Jar miffed me big-time.

How can you NOT notice the premium content in BTD4? There’s links to ‘get more’ and ‘buy this’ and whatnot like.. everywhere.

 
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Originally posted by BadWhippet:

It would be better if Kongregate made it clear that Kred content was buyable in a game somewhere above the game description on the page -before we start doling out tips to the Tip Jar in ignorance.

I don’t mind the Kred system and have given plenty of kreds to many great developers, but discovering premium content in BTD4 only AFTER I’d donated to the Tip Jar miffed me big-time.

HEY EVERYONE! THIS GAME HAS PAID CONTENT! GO AND DOWNRATE IT!!!

Also, who is forcing you people to pay anyway? Give one way in which they do.

Also:

Originally said by Pseudolonewolf:

People are eager to take, but never to give.

 
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The payements ways are still VERY limited… if you aren’t from USA, you can’t use amazon turk (because it’s require a USA based cred card( thus meaning i lost 6 dollar >.<), you can’t do surveys (unless you are german, russian, or dutch), there’s no way to get the ultimate whatever card…

 
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Originally posted by kurapikachile:

The payements ways are still VERY limited… if you aren’t from USA, you can’t use amazon turk (because it’s require a USA based cred card( thus meaning i lost 6 dollar >.<), you can’t do surveys (unless you are german, russian, or dutch), there’s no way to get the ultimate whatever card…

Paypal?

A good idea would be for people to be able to send Kreds to others as “gifts”…

 
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All games promise 100% freedom

No.

They promise 100% free to play, which is true for 100% of the games on Kongregate (except maybe for the select few that you can flag right away, as they don’t belong here).

I was saying how I felt with my analogy, and how I believe other people feel. You can’t say that’s not how I feel, because it is. You might not feel the same, and that’s fine, but you can’t say I am wrong. I know I am giving my opinion, that’s the point isn’t it?

I’m trying to show you, and other people arguing against locked content or kreds, that it’s not the way you feel it is. That you are being inconsistent here with how you are in real life. Perhaps some people say this all boils down to opinions, but I say it boils down to this:

1. The games on Kongregate are free to play, and the admins say they will always be free to play. That is, you will never be required to pay money/kreds beforehand in order to start playing a game, and there will be no regular, monetary fee in order to keep on playing. What you can buy is additional features, content or extras. This is in no way required or obligatory.

2. Products in real life cost money. Almost everything does. You buy food without thinking, toys, a vacation, and a car. You even buy games for your PC/Playstation/etc. It all costs money. Then why is it bad for flash games to have products included you can also buy for money? You are getting more for less, yet it seems to be more of an issue to complain about. Did you ever complain about bread costing money?

3. Opinions can vary. Facts cannot (on a single issue). It is your opinion you want flash games to be 100% free (not just free to play, but free of locked content and extra features). It is not your opinion this works like the analogy you presented, as that is not how it’s like and would be like in real life. It’s simply false. I’m not trying to shoot you down, or your opinion, but perhaps it would be best for everyone to consistently see this supposed “game world” as if it was real life. As it is.

No harsh feelings. You can have your opinions. You can rate down whatever game you like for whatever reason you want. Even if it’s irrational. Even if it’s plain false. Some people would want it to stop. I, for one, don’t really care for that. I care for people simply being correct.

 
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you can’t do surveys (unless you are german, russian, or dutch)

I’m Dutch and I have only had like two surveys in the entire time since Offerpal was implemented. Both didn’t work.

A good idea would be for people to be able to send Kreds to others as “gifts”…

I can see this running out of hand with alts giving their main Kreds for surveys.

 
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paypal means convert money to USD, and that you don’t have free alternatives…

 
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So, I’ve done 4 of the Third Party Advertisements, some of them wrecked my additional e-mails (Made for this purpose) with spam and it totalled to about 50 Kreds, 51 I believe so I could purchase something on Remnants of Skystone, one of my favorite games here on Kong and I didn’t see a single Kred. I completed every single one. I even went back and tried completing some of them multiple times because they didn’t work the first time and now I feel I’ve been cheated out of something I’ve been promised. Just something that bothered me. Thanks for listening