Originally posted by bobby71983:

I would even argue that games like gemcraft labyrinth hard should be an impossible because of the time commitment. If a game that can be beaten in a couple hours that is 100% grindy no skill(monster den) can be an impossible, then why cant other grindy games be one? What is the criteria for an impossible anyway? I’ll bet even the admins don’t know.

Both Tyrant badges have been earned significantly more often the the Gemcraft Labyrinth second hard badge. And all of those badges have been earned significantly more often than the Monsters Den impossible, which is both acknowledged to be a bit of a mistake by Greg, and a badge where you can actually lose all of your progress if you make a mistake (unlike Tyrant/Gemcraft Labyrinth, where the only way you can lose progress is to deliberately remove your progress.)

Hungerhogan,

While the people who oppose a new badge have not offered a rational reason for opposing

Of course, that’s in your opinion, which means you really can’t use “rational” there. Use “good” instead. You’re using media-like arguments in order to get the masses to agree with you that we are completely moronic for even suggesting that there shouldn’t be a badge (while you don’t even have an opinion yourself!). Grow up.

Deathvonduel,

I’m not entirely sure what I should call Greg and Raw, so I just call them mods.

Administrators.

However, you should not try to convert another person’s point of view and/or put down their statements based on merely subjective views.

I’m not, but it may seem to you like that since I haven’t actually placed down the arguments. I haven’t, because I don’t feel the supporters here are very serious about it.

All one can really say is that “I don’t want it, it’s extremely unlikely because….” but not “there won’t be because….” or “there shouldn’t be because….” as the latter is simply not true.

It is true. There shouldn’t be an impossible badge for many reasons, some of which I’ll line up here:

1. There is a badge limit of four. To extend this badge limit solely for Tyrant (either in the way that only Tyrant gets more badges than four, or that the limit gets extended due to this suggestion) is extreme favouritism.
2. Badges were placed on Tyrant a long time ago. To suddenly bring back a badge on it is extreme favouritism. I have never heard of a game that got an additional badge after a long time without it being promised (some games get hard badges later on after being promised they’ll get there).
3. An impossible badge on an heavily energy-based, pay-to-win MMO is downright sadistic. I understand you mentioned a tournament that only asks for 10k (which I believe is little) and puts everyone on equal grounds. I don’t know how big this tournament is, or how random the cards are you’re getting, but that either doesn’t seem like a very hard badge or very luck-based (aside from a basic skill set most people have at that point).
4. I don’t think there’s anything in that game worthy of an impossible. Making the last badge an impossible is only acknowledging the fact that the energy system is downright horrible.

More importantly, anyone who disagrees with me is objectively wrong.

I agree with the title. Take your canvas bags to the supermarket does need an impossible badge.

Originally posted by abraaz:

Originally posted by devourer359:

The title change is inaccurate; Superman 64 isn’t a game on Kong.

No, he was talking about Conker’s Bad Fur Day >.>

That game pales in comparison to Superman 64.

2. Badges were placed on Tyrant a long time ago. To suddenly bring back a badge on it is extreme favouritism. I have never heard of a game that got an additional badge after a long time without it being promised (some games get hard badges later on after being promised they’ll get there).

Refraction?

I’m not, but it may seem to you like that

too lazy to check out which posts were urs, i’m not aiming at any specific person with my comment so while u might not be putting down others, some were so…. no need to get defensive

There is a badge limit of four. To extend this badge limit solely for Tyrant (either in the way that only Tyrant gets more badges than four, or that the limit gets extended due to this suggestion) is extreme favouritism.

a limit, which you pointed out yourself, that could be extended. I certainly agree that it should not be extended for tyrant. But, if it’s extended for some other awesome game first, then tyrant might get a ride. A good reason for “not now” or “very unlikely”, but not a reason for “should not”

Badges were placed on Tyrant a long time ago. To suddenly bring back a badge on it is extreme favouritism. I have never heard of a game that got an additional badge after a long time without it being promised (some games get hard badges later on after being promised they’ll get there).

There will be a first for everything. Again, I agree tyrant is hardly the most worthy for something like this, if worthy at all. But if the precedent is set by some other game, then again tyrant might get a “ride”. Again something for “not now” or “highly unlikely” but not “should not”. dunno if this have been done already (what is a refraction XD) because I dont badge hunt but meh….

An impossible badge on an heavily energy-based, pay-to-win MMO is downright sadistic. I understand you mentioned a tournament that only asks for 10k (which I believe is little) and puts everyone on equal grounds. I don’t know how big this tournament is, or how random the cards are you’re getting, but that either doesn’t seem like a very hard badge or very luck-based (aside from a basic skill set most people have at that point).

the cards are completely random, each person basically get 4 new packs and a extra crappy commander. the player can only use the card from those 4 packs and that commander so everyone is on fair ground as far as randomness goes. size of torny doesn’t matter because u can be top 5% with under 10 games if ur deck happen to work well, it goes by a score system where u win point when u win a fight and lose them when u lose and u r always matched up with ppl near your score. And the reward (hence achievement) are % rank based so more ppl doesn’t make it harder. The torny is 5k per entry, and on average you get more than 5k back(~8-10k tbh on avg) so 10k should give u an almost infinite number of tries, so just in case u misunderstood, it’s not 10k for one try.

I don’t think there’s anything in that game worthy of an impossible. Making the last badge an impossible is only acknowledging the fact that the energy system is downright horrible.

and that’s completely subjective, while I agree with you, it’s not a reason you can really use XD
So all in all, all you provided are reasons why it’s unlikely and why you would be against it, but not ones where you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that there wont be, which is my point.

I don’t know if we publicly promised the additional badge to Refraction from the beginning, but that was the plan. The dev had some requests regarding badging the game so we put off the hard badge until they were ready for it.

Originally posted by Thok:

Originally posted by bobby71983:

I would even argue that games like gemcraft labyrinth hard should be an impossible because of the time commitment. If a game that can be beaten in a couple hours that is 100% grindy no skill(monster den) can be an impossible, then why cant other grindy games be one? What is the criteria for an impossible anyway? I’ll bet even the admins don’t know.

Both Tyrant badges have been earned significantly more often the the Gemcraft Labyrinth second hard badge. And all of those badges have been earned significantly more often than the Monsters Den impossible, which is both acknowledged to be a bit of a mistake by Greg, and a badge where you can actually lose all of your progress if you make a mistake (unlike Tyrant/Gemcraft Labyrinth, where the only way you can lose progress is to deliberately remove your progress.)

Tyrant has more earns because it has significantly more plays. About 6 times more. The Tyrant hards have only been earned about 2 times as often as GC. Tyrant badges are earned far less per play.

The point is that there is no definition of what is an impossible badge. So many games have impossible badge capability, and yet they keep on not giving impossibles. If they want impossible badges to be something really special, that is all fine, but make them worth more than 60 points then.

All right, Death, now it seems like semantics. You’re very intent on proving that I’ve said what I said, but just want to be right by switching around concepts? Whatever you were trying to say is lost, since you still end up with the same conclusion. Unless you really think “very unlikely” and “certainly not now or in the near future” is significantly different from “should not”, or you really understood I meant it for all eternity, and pretending there’s no possible way something crazy could ever happen that would allow for Tyrant to get this wicked impossible badge.

But, if it’s extended for some other awesome game first, then tyrant might get a ride.

It shouldn’t be extended for any one game. It should be extended once it is clear there are at least some long games with content that is so varied it would be a shame not all of it is in the badges. This would remove any hint of favouritism as it would imply the feature is needed for the site as a whole, not for a particular game.

But if the precedent is set by some other game, then again tyrant might get a “ride”.

It’s once again favouritism. It’s adding another rush of players towards a particular game, while it already had that rush when badges were first introduced. Not only does this reduce the amount of players for all other games, this rush should also be given to other games at that point. In short, put all the badges you think are currently feasible on the game or wait with badges if not all content is released yet. Here, it isn’t a “not now”, but a “not ever”.

the cards are completely random, each person basically get 4 new packs and a extra crappy commander. the player can only use the card from those 4 packs and that commander so everyone is on fair ground as far as randomness goes. size of torny doesn’t matter because u can be top 5% with under 10 games if ur deck happen to work well, it goes by a score system where u win point when u win a fight and lose them when u lose and u r always matched up with ppl near your score. And the reward (hence achievement) are % rank based so more ppl doesn’t make it harder. The torny is 5k per entry, and on average you get more than 5k back(~8-10k tbh on avg) so 10k should give u an almost infinite number of tries, so just in case u misunderstood, it’s not 10k for one try.

Okay, but that sounds more like a medium badge. If your randomness works out well, you’re there in no time, it seems. I’ve always opposed extreme randomness in badges, and this one seems no different. Any way, I don’t know enough about the game here, just stating my views from what I observed in your posts.

and that’s completely subjective, while I agree with you, it’s not a reason you can really use

Well, yeah, I can. I’d like Greg and Raw to keep their places of respect. If they start giving out impossibles for every easy task out there, their position would lose a little meaning. Your example of an impossible in Tyrant didn’t seem appropriate, and the rest seems to heavily rely on it taking so long due to the energy timer.

Originally posted by bobby71983:

Tyrant has more earns because it has significantly more plays. About 6 times more. The Tyrant hards have only been earned about 2 times as often as GC. Tyrant badges are earned far less per play.

The energy system increases the number of plays per game, for obvious reasons (I have all of the badges in question, and I sure I’m credited with more plays of Tyrant then of Gemcraft Labyrinth, by a large margin.) Ratings are a more reasonable comparison (and to be fair Tyrant has double the number of ratings, but it’s hard badges have been earned roughly twice as often as Gemcraft Labyrinth.)

Alright, that is fine then. Even if I am overestimating the amount of actual players to badges earned, it still shows that the badges are relatively equal difficulty as far as endurance.

Tyrant-
You acquired this badge on Sep. 19, 2011.
You acquired this badge on Sep. 30, 2011.

GC-
You acquired this badge on Jun. 25, 2011.
You acquired this badge on Jul. 09, 2011.

Maybe I just sucked at GC back then(it was my first GC game), but it took me a long time. I even bought the premium pack near the beginning.

I want both hard badges to be transformed into impossibles. I no longer want just Tyrant hard(missions) to be an impossible.

I am probably just trolling with my previous 2 sentences.

@darkruler:
fine, then multiple games set the “precedent” at same time. Detail of how it could happen hardly matters in the realm of “is it possible”
And by “should not” I mean the more definitive sense(as a final verdict) as opposed to subjective sense. Not rly sure what a more proper term is.
I do believe very unlikely is significantly different from my concept of “should not”, again possible with poor word choice on the latter.
But the “certainly not now or in the near future” argument does not stand unless the admins come out and say it. You never know what they are cooking up already and maybe they are taking a step toward more badge per game already. Frankly, with this whole onset of feeds, I wont be surprised by anything. All that we can conclude w/o them saying something is “very unlikely and even more unlikely to be anytime soon”

In law, science and mathematics, there is no room for rounding. I know this is just a forum, but I prefer to maintain a more strict attitude toward things. I understand what you mean and your opinions and for the vast majority of possibilities, you are correct. But I’m just not one to discard the unlikely.

As for torny, as it’s rank % based, if it’s top 5% or even 1%, it’s certainly qualifies for impossible. For starters, luck isn’t going to be any nicer to you than any other guy, so it takes an average of 20 or 100 tries to get it even if skill does matter. And frankly, skill matters a lot. 5% might only get a hard because you can still win that with luck alone and minimal skill, but 1%…. you seriously need to be well versed in the game to the extend where u know the card distribution within each pack. Come back with your theories about the difficulties after you tried, I have’t reached 1% yet after playing it quite a few times(thou i choose the expensive option for keeping the cards so I cant play as often cause it have big net cost) and only barely touched 5% once… only to be surpassed in the last 2 min = =.
I know it’s harder than president Madagascar Assassin…. Thou I never tried for any of the other imps so i can’t rly say anything about that. Thou a few seems a bit of grind should work and still easier than 1%, just too lazy (ultimate hero, over the ashes and hardset of core i know i can get, i played elsewhere and either completed it or came close enough to know i can…) thou I must say some of the stuff is kinda impossible for me, like World Domination, I’m horrible at hand-eye coordination, so only strategy for me…
I only suggested 5% because 1% is a bit too grindy, even with perfect skill it will take average of at least 50 tries, and that just go down the bad road. But if you think 5% ain’t hard enough for impossible rating, go 1% cause it definitely does in term of difficulty.
Yes, I do play tyrant, no I dont want the badge, just stating facts about the game.

Originally posted by devourer359:

Originally posted by abraaz:

Originally posted by devourer359:

The title change is inaccurate; Superman 64 isn’t a game on Kong.

No, he was talking about Conker’s Bad Fur Day >.>

That game pales in comparison to Superman 64.

How dare you :O

Who else thinks that the OP ignored all this and moved on? :P

fine, then multiple games set the “precedent” at same time. Detail of how it could happen hardly matters in the realm of “is it possible”

Sure, it’s possible, just highly unlikely. But that’s beside the point, since “should not” has different reasoning. Nevertheless, I still believe this would just end up in semantics.

And by “should not” I mean the more definitive sense(as a final verdict) as opposed to subjective sense. Not rly sure what a more proper term is.
I do believe very unlikely is significantly different from my concept of “should not”, again possible with poor word choice on the latter.

I thought it was pretty obvious I wouldn’t mean “you’re completely crazy if you could even slightly believe it might be somewhat possible that within a billion years something mildly similar to this would ever be implemented”, but more of a personal opinion about now and the near future combined with facts that contribute towards it becoming a high likelihood. Let’s not discuss this part, as I hope we understand each other here.

But the “certainly not now or in the near future” argument does not stand unless the admins come out and say it. You never know what they are cooking up already and maybe they are taking a step toward more badge per game already. Frankly, with this whole onset of feeds, I wont be surprised by anything. All that we can conclude w/o them saying something is “very unlikely and even more unlikely to be anytime soon”

In law, science and mathematics, there is no room for rounding. I know this is just a forum, but I prefer to maintain a more strict attitude toward things. I understand what you mean and your opinions and for the vast majority of possibilities, you are correct. But I’m just not one to discard the unlikely.

I think, again, this is just semantics. I wasn’t really in a serious discussion until after I used those words, so then I can be more relaxed about my word usage.

Come back with your theories about the difficulties after you tried

See, that’s not a very fair requirement. I’m concluding based on what you said, and if the tournament basically means everyone gets a random pack and needs to go from there, then it’s extremely luck-based. You need a basic skill set, and beyond that you need to be lucky with the packs you get and lucky with the opponents you have. If there’s some advanced stuff you need to know, then that’s based on how much time you spent waiting for the energy to get back up (to play a few more missions).

So, yeah, I think it personally doesn’t deserve another badge (“shouldn’t”), but I also don’t think it’s likely (scientifically).

I said try it, not get it. Just to get a feel XD
I would be unfair to ask u get something that I haven’t…
somethings cant rly be relayed well in words

drama llama still thinks tyrant needs impossible badges. please bump. thank you.

peace out.

Oh, oh.. Look at that. The thread almost died.

Yes, I realize that I’m not helping.

Originally posted by adv0catus:

Oh, oh.. Look at that. The thread almost died.

Yes, I realize that I’m not helping.

I was going to yell at you for reviving this thread. Then, I looked above you -.-.

Oh, and I’m adding another bump here.

The max badges for a game is 4. No one has actually reached 150 yet.

>Best game on kongregate

SAYS WHO?

Different people, have different preferences, you can’t say tyrant is the best just because you are one of its high level nerds and like the game.

Also, It doesn’t need an impossible badge, it already has 4 badges, it can’t get more, and also, you want it to get an impossible on the game, so you get a free imp., it doesn’t exactly need it.

Warning

I am not going to troll these two people (troll = say things only to cause trouble and saying things that have no value), but I am going to mock them while I make my points. Their posts implicitly asked to be mocked; their posts certainly didn’t ask to be taken seriously.

Originally posted by HULKSMASHING:

The max badges for a game is 4. No one has actually reached 150 yet.

Do you have any PROOF that the maximum number of badges is 4?!?!? Before your post there were only 120 posts on a mere five pages, and I am sure that NO ONE ever mentioned that the maximum number of badges was four. Why should we believe you? In the last 13 days, nobody else mentioned a maximum number of badges. This sounds suspicious.

"No one has actually reached 150 yet." Ok, you are right: it is true that the number of players that have reached level 150 in Tyrant is not equal to one. Did you know that you (or anyone) can easily check to see what level is the highest level that someone has reached in Tyrant? I don’t want to spoil the ending of the book, so I’ll let you look at the Tyrant high scores instead of telling you how close the highest-level player is to level 150.

Originally posted by Jaskaran2000:

>Best game on kongregate

SAYS WHO?

Different people, have different preferences, you can’t say tyrant is the best just because you are one of its high level nerds and like the game.

Also, It doesn’t need an impossible badge, it already has 4 badges, it can’t get more, and also, you want it to get an impossible on the game, so you get a free imp., it doesn’t exactly need it.

"SAYS WHO?"

Hmmmmm. Is this a trick question? Deli_Drama_Llama is the original poster, and I think Deli_Drama_Llama also wrote the title of the thread, so I’m pretty sure the answer to your question is "Deli_Drama_Llama". No, wait, sorry, my final answer to your question, "SAYS WHO?", is "DELI_DRAMA_LLAMA". Do I get a prize for answering correctly?

"you can’t say tyrant is the best just because you are one of its high level nerds and like the game."

Can he say tyrant is the best if he is one of its low level jocks and dislikes the game?

"It doesn’t need an impossible badge"

Does any game need an impossible badge?

"it already has 4 badges, it can’t get more"

WOAH! Slow down, Usain Bolt. We had no idea that four badges was the maximum until seven hours prior to your post, but HULKSMASHING has helped us to see The Light and to learn The Truth. Don’t act like you thought of it first. You should give props to HULKSMASHING because his post was seven hours before your post and he obviously said it before anyone else said it. Don’t act like you thought of it all by yourself.

"you want it to get an impossible on the game, so you get a free imp."

Dude, where did you learn to read minds? Can I learn it, too?

"it doesn’t exactly need it."

If Tyrant "doesn’t exactly need" an impossible badge, then by the laws of logic, that means Tyrant inexactly does need an impossible badge. But you saying that tyrant inexactly does need an impossible badge contradicts when you said "It doesn’t need an impossible badge". Which statement is true?

dumass

Originally posted by hunterhogan:

Do you have any PROOF that the maximum number of badges is 4?!?!? Before your post there were only 120 posts on a mere five pages, and I am sure that NO ONE ever mentioned that the maximum number of badges was four. Why should we believe you? In the last 13 days, nobody else mentioned a maximum number of badges. This sounds suspicious.

Clearly you didn’t read the thread as much as you claim to have, because it’s been mentioned numerous times so far.

Originally posted by Fricknmaniac:

Didn’t we just have this thread a month ago about making badge exceptions for games, only it was for more than four badges instead of impossible badges for MMO’s?

And didn’t the admins come down firmly on the side of no exceptions?

Originally posted by Fricknmaniac:

So… yeah… it’s not even a question of whether or not it should get an impossible badge. It already has four badges and it won’t be getting any more. Because that’s how Kongregate is set up.

Originally posted by aturtledoesbite:

Wait, the game already has four badges? This thread is pointless then. Why? Allow me to clarify one small, tiny little thing here…

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR A GAME TO HAVE MORE THAN FOUR BADGES.

You may be asking why. It’s simple, really. Kong isn’t coded to have more than four badges per game. You may also be asking why they can’t just recode it. And while they technically can, that would make Kongbot very unhappy for having his code messed with. And you don’t want Kongbot to be unhappy.

Originally posted by rawismojo:

Reminder: if you want a new badge, go talk to the right people and just leave this thread alone.

On the contrary, I think public discussion like this is pretty valuable. Even if something seems pretty far-fetched, we very well might still consider it if it’s suggested. Although if it’s a badge suggestion, it’s easier to keep track of things if it’s posted in the badge suggestion thread. Regarding the topic of the thread, I do think it’s incredibly unlikely that Tryant will be getting an impossible badge, but if we raise the cap on badges per game above 4 we might consider it at that point (although still not extremely likely).

Including the last one, you might have heard of him he’s one of the guys that makes the badges.

The badge cap is four.