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Hot New Games....

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why is it always these crappy cashgrab shitfest games are on the top of the hot new games list? I want HOT NEW GAMES on the list. For example now it is Dungeon Overlord at the very top of the list. This happened recently. Neither is this game hot nor new. Nor good. The game is pure S.H.I.T.
And all you need to do is read the comments.

Clearly Kong is altering stuff and putting games as they please regardless of what criteria they ACTUALLY meet. This game is 5 weeks old. No other game that old should be counted as “hot and new”. What the hell is going on.

Stop this BS please.

Just some of the TOP RATED comments (pretty much 90%+ look like this):

WHY IS EVERY NEW GAME MULTIPLAYER AND COST ME MONEY TO DO ANYTHING FUN!!!!!! i want the good old free games none of this multiplayer crap
1/5. not only its another P2P game, its also pretty shitty.
I wonder who rates these things up?
Kongregate is obviously fudging ratings to put these games on the hotlist and to get people to play them. If you need proof just look at the monthly contest. These worthless facebook style games are always scored higher than the games on the contest page which means the rating Kong is showing is not real. STOP your BS Kong.
Kongregate is clearly faking the ratings on all these pay-to-play multiplayer games that keep coming out. There is no one who is rating them highly.
Kongregate is turning into a second-rate gaming site that takes money in return for a quick 2 days on the “Hot” list. And, since Multiplayer games are where all the greedy people are, that’s why there’s so many of these “Hot” new money-stealing games on the front page. Disgraceful, really.
yet another random multiplayer pay2play game. 1/5, i can only pray kong stops letting them put their games here.

 
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Tis a shame for small-time devs who miss out on the chance to have their games featured on the front page…

 
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Originally posted by dubesor:

Bitch, whine, moan, whine whine whine.

So you don’t like stuff you have to pay for?

Welcome to the real world, you puerile little turdmonkey.

Why is it always these pay to play MMO games are on the top of the hot new games list?

Because a lot of people play them, and rate them highly. Duh?

The game is pure S.H.I.T.

You’re allowed to say the word shit on the forums.

And all you need to do is read the comments.

And all you need to do is grow the fuck up.

Clearly Kong is altering stuff and putting games as they please regardless of what criteria they ACTUALLY meet.

And CLEARLY, the CIA is behind 9/11, Kennedy the Illuminati killed Tupac, Elvis is still alive, living in rural Louisiana, the moon landing was faked, and aliens crashed in Roswell.

 
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If you honestly feel that Kongregate is manipulating the results to give MMO-type games an unfair advertising edge to further their bottom line, do something about it.

 
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Originally posted by MaistlinRajere:

So you don’t like stuff you have to pay for?

Actually it has nothing to do with paying. I probably paid more than the average user on this site. I have made several tips to developers before and also bought premium content on games such as Legend of the Void, Bad Eggs, Infectonator as well as paying for whole games on Kong such as Defender’s Quest. All in all I have gladly paid around $200 on Kong, more than most users here ever have or will do.

The thing that bothers me is when Kong obviously cheats the community and other devs by placing games that do not meet the required criteria in order to make a quick buck.
And these games concerned aren’t the good ones I mentioned above. No, they are the typical facebookstyle-cashgrab games that are absolutely zero fun and tremendously obvious cashgrabs. And the community obviously agrees on this issue. Just read the god damn comments and stop trying to insult me with obvious flawed statements.

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:

If you honestly feel that Kongregate is manipulating the results to give MMO-type games an unfair advertising edge to further their bottom line, do something about it.

Completely ignore my post to quote Maistlin to complain more about how Kongregate cheats the community and developers to make money. Again, if you honestly believe what you’re saying, then do something about it otherwise you’re just talking out your ass and it’s not worth listening to.

 
This post has been removed by an administrator or moderator
 
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Well let’s see the current “HOT NEW GAMES”, 9 Titles

Non-cashgrab:

  • Home Sheep Home 2. November 8th (3 days old)
  • Arkandian Explorer. November 6th (5 days old)
  • Hordes and Lords. November 1st (~1 week old)
  • Siegius Arena . Oct 22nd (~3 weeks old)
  • Flippin’ Dead. Oct 26th (~2 weeks old)
  • Flightless. Oct 15th (~4 weeks old)

Cashgrabs:

  • Dungeon Overlord. Oct 2nd (~6 weeks)
  • Big Head Bash. May 24th (~24 weeks)
  • Heavens Sept. 13th (~9 weeks)

Now tell me you don’t see a pattern. And tell me why the average cashgrab can get on Hot NEW Games list while being 8x older. While the non cashgrab are all indeed new. What a coincidence.

Not only is this annoying to a customer like myself, but also unfair towards honest developers who aren’t featured on the list due to this bullocks. This means less recognition and effectively less revenue for honest developers who aren’t running facebookstyle cashgrabs.

 
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As far as meeting the criteria for the list goes, MMOs are allowed to exclude ratings from people who don’t load the first quest. This is supposedly to exclude low ratings from people who can’t run the game – but also works to remove ratings from people who see a game is an MMO and rate it 1/5 for that reason.

This means that the typical MMO does have an advantage in the ratings compared to other games… whether it’s an advantage that makes a difference to the final rating is anyone’s guess, but I think most games would have higher ratings if you excluded people who 1 star them before playing.

 
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Now tell me you don’t see a pattern

I don’t see a pattern.

While the non cashgrab are all indeed new.

~4 weeks = New? Yeah, kay then.

but also unfair towards honest developers who aren’t featured on the list due to this bullocks.

How do you know those so-called ‘honest developers’ deserved being there?

why is it always these crappy cashgrab shitfest games are on the top of the hot new games list

Because the people’s opinions are not the same as yours and not all think they are crappy

And all you need to do is read the comments.

Yeah, because listening to people’s opinions will surely change my opinion.

No other game that old should be counted as “hot and new”.

Yeah, tell me it doesn’t take less than 3 weeks to get more than 500,000 plays and 3.5+ star rating.

Stop this BS please.

How about you stop your stupid rant?

Just some of the TOP RATED comments (pretty much 90%+ look like this):

But clearly, other people did like it, they just didn’t bother to comment. Do you think everyone who plays a certain game comments on it?

No, they are the typical facebookstyle-cashgrab games that are absolutely zero fun and tremendously obvious cashgrabs.

They might be fun to others.

And the community obviously agrees on this issue.

Not the whole of it, though.

Just read the god damn comments and stop trying to insult me with obvious flawed statements.

ಠ_ಠ

 
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Originally posted by saybox:

As far as meeting the criteria for the list goes, MMOs are allowed to exclude ratings from people who don’t load the first quest. This is supposedly to exclude low ratings from people who can’t run the game – but also works to remove ratings from people who see a game is an MMO and rate it 1/5 for that reason.

This means that the typical MMO does have an advantage in the ratings compared to other games… whether it’s an advantage that makes a difference to the final rating is anyone’s guess, but I think most games would have higher ratings if you excluded people who 1 star them before playing.

Nice to know, didn’t know before. This is obviously a HUGE advantage. Does this only count for MMos or also for other games? A General ‘must play minimum for 5 minutes in order to rate’ would make sense. I wouldn’t like exceptions for only certain genres though..

 
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Originally posted by dubesor:
Originally posted by saybox:

As far as meeting the criteria for the list goes, MMOs are allowed to exclude ratings from people who don’t load the first quest. This is supposedly to exclude low ratings from people who can’t run the game – but also works to remove ratings from people who see a game is an MMO and rate it 1/5 for that reason.

This means that the typical MMO does have an advantage in the ratings compared to other games… whether it’s an advantage that makes a difference to the final rating is anyone’s guess, but I think most games would have higher ratings if you excluded people who 1 star them before playing.

Nice to know, didn’t know before. This is obviously a huge advantage. Does this only count for MMos or also for other games? A General ‘must play minimum for 5 minutes in order to rate’ would make sense. I wouldn’t like exceptions for only certain genres though..

Only MMOs. No other game is allowed to exclude ratings (or has the ability to do so).

MMOs with altered ratings are removed from the weekly and monthly contests, but if you look at the amounts people spend in Kred purchases on them, it far outweighs the monthly prizes.

 
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Huh, I never knew that about the PBBGs being able to exclude ratings. Though I do remember noting on several occasions that I haven’t really being seeing any PBBGs in the contest list… so it all adds up now.

 
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So they actually manipulate the rating? Really?

 
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Originally posted by resterman:

So they actually manipulate the rating? Really?

I think excluding ratings from people who rate it without playing the game is completely reasonable. People like that only hurt this site, not help it.

If there is a way to do this with other games(like have to play x minutes for your rating to count) I’d support that.

 
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I’m actually kind of relieved that the average Kong user isn’t the kind of braindead zombie who enjoys these…er, games.

 
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There is no sense at all at removing people’s rating. If they rate 1/5 a game without playing, there’s a reason.

 
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Originally posted by resterman:

There is no sense at all at removing people’s rating. If they rate 1/5 a game without playing, there’s a reason.

Yes, and the reason is that they aren’t taking the rating process seriously.

There are people who both 1/5 before playing and 5/5 before playing. Ideally, it would be better to get rid of both types of raters.

 
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I completely agree with this. As one person said in the comments (which is now in top comments) ‘If I want to play a facebook game, I’ll go play it on facebook.‘. I hate facebook-type games. I don’t want to wait an hour or so for something to happen, and I don’t want to have to invite a damn friend in order to get something. Most of all I don’t want to pay for anything to happen in under a day or for it to happen at all. That’s not fun, that’s the developer throwing a shit game together and screaming ‘GIMME MONIES’. I know some types find that fun, for some reason, however if they want to play that kind of game they can go to freaking facebook – I don’t want to go to Kongregate and find exactly the kind of game I hate getting top everything despite the fact that nobody actually likes it. I go to Kongregate for entertaining games, not the same cliche
multiplayer game that asks for money at every turn.

 
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Originally posted by Zazanxors:

I completely agree with this. As one person said in the comments (which is now in top comments) ‘If I want to play a facebook game, I’ll go play it on facebook.‘. I hate facebook-type games. I don’t want to wait an hour or so for something to happen, and I don’t want to have to invite a damn friend in order to get something. Most of all I don’t want to pay for anything to happen in under a day or for it to happen at all. That’s not fun, that’s the developer throwing a shit game together and screaming ‘GIMME MONIES’. I know some types find that fun, for some reason, however if they want to play that kind of game they can go to freaking facebook – I don’t want to go to Kongregate and find exactly the kind of game I hate getting top everything despite the fact that nobody actually likes it. I go to Kongregate for entertaining games, not the same cliche
multiplayer game that asks for money at every turn.

Then don’t play those types of games. I missed the part where you’re being forced to. You’ve spoken to every single user on Kongregate and can say as a fact that nobody likes the types of games that are being featured? That’s blatant manipulation by Kongregate then, and you should do something about it.

 
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When I first found this website it was like finding a corner store that hands out free ice-cream. Used to play a lot console games, which is like fancy ice–cream that costs a lot of money. Sure, it tastes a bit better, but if you conducted a cost–benefit–ratio–analysis, Kong was pure win. It’s free ice-cream, for chrissake. and some games–MoneySeize, Mardek, Manufactoria (‘mmm’ for short)–are actually better than that fancy expensive ice-cream.

…And now we have these terrible ‘games’ that seem to have originated from facebook, the giant supermarket down the road…and so the corner store now has giant stacks of of these tubs filled with shit (not shitty ice–cream, I mean actual. shit.) sitting next to the front door, and there are some consumers who’ll actually pay money to make their shit taste nicer, but it’s still just shit.

And this is a terrible, deplorable situation, to be sure – people willingly eating faeces. But frankly, if people are willing to pay money for shit then you can hardly blame other people for selling it. And maybe you can bring yourself to hate your corner store for taking part in this, but I can’t. Because they still hand out free ice-cream.
And that’s the bottom line: free ice-cream. here, have some. You’ll feel better.

There, I’m done. That’s my take on this whole business.

 
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I’m going to step in and say that we do not manipulate ratings of games, nor do we bump up the gameplays. These games have a fan base that enjoy the genre and play them.

As for MMOs appearing on the “Hot New Games” area, I will remind you all that this section is hand chosen by our team. Typically you’ll see older MMOs on this section again if they’ve added new updates. There’s still an overwhelming amount of non-MMOs being promoted all over the site though, whether it be in the many categories on the front page, in the feature roll, in the newsletter, etc. We like to promote MMO type games so we can ensure they get a healthy amount of users playing it, too. Unlike single player games, when an MMO doesn’t have enough people playing it, it shuts down and is removed from the site (as we’ve seen in the past with Zening, Dinowaurs, Zombies Online, and others.)

I won’t argue that MMO games account for a majority of the revenue our site needs, too. This isn’t to say we go around forging ratings though just to make money… that would be unethical of what our site stands for. These are games that people do enjoy, even if certain people don’t, and that’s clearly seen in the game chatrooms and respective forums. If you don’t like these types of games, it’s easy to ignore them and move onto something else. I would recommend trying some out though if you’re skeptical – I’ve played quite a few and never had to pay a penny to enjoy it. The option is there for people who do want to support the developer/game.

There is so much emphasis on how “bad” these games are, and that indie-developers are being ignored, when they definitely aren’t. Kongregate started on the hard work of indie devs, and we’ll continue to support them and everything they do for flash gaming. It’s not just about MMOs on our site.

 
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While I can sympathize with your frustration at these games, I don’t think the ratings are being manipulated. MMO games like this where you have to pay out the wazoo to get anywhere make me angry too, but remember that all of these games are tagged. Most people who see “multiplayer” and “mmo” in the tags clicked on the game because they like those kinds of games. While a lot of the top comments are negative, you can’t assume that MOST of those people agree. I’m sure there’s a lot of people out there who enjoy these kinds of games that don’t post comments. If you don’t like the games, just don’t click on them. All you can do is give it a 1/5 and move on.

 
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Unlike single player games, when an MMO doesn’t have enough people playing it, it shuts down and is removed from the site (as we’ve seen in the past with Zening, Dinowaurs, Zombies Online, and others.)

Should I go get the Dinowaurs hard badge while I still can?

 
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Originally posted by Zshadow:

I’m going to step in and say that we do not manipulate ratings of games, nor do we bump up the gameplays. These games have a fan base that enjoy the genre and play them.

The following quotes are all direct from the developer docs:

For social/MMO games we recommend submitting a stat to us called “initialized” or “loaded” that sends a “1” each time the game loads successfully. This must be done early, generally at the title screen or no later than character selection/creation (if that happens first thing) – it cannot be post-tutorial or after the first level. We can use this stat to ensure that ratings for the game are by people who meet the game’s minimum system requirements. It generally is not as important for Flash games, but if you use an unusual plugin/technology like Unity3D, Java, or HTML5, or are Windows-only, this will help give you a more accurate rating and is strongly recommended. Let us know if you have set up a statistic like this so we can set it up as a filter. This service is currently only available for virtual-goods-enabled games. Also, as this will modify the game’s rating, any games using this service will be excluded from weekly and monthly contests.

And also:

Since we want to make sure your game gets a chance to take off, joining the Kongregate kreds payments program will include some initial promotion to help get players into the game. We will run spotlight ads on the site (a minimum of 1 million impressions free of charge)

And one more:

After a number of experiments with various launch strategies, we’ve found that the safest and most effective strategy is to go with a softer launch accompanied by our complimentary spotlight ads (see the bottom of our submission checklist for details) for the game. This will help build a community within the game who understand and advocate for it, so that hopefully when the game gets bigger promotion on the front page the existing community will help the new players with questions they have about the game.

This gives MMO games a clear advantage over any other game, for a few reasons:

  • free advertising for MMOs, nothing for regular games.
  • removing early 1 star votes is guaranteed to remove votes from people who simply dislike MMOs. Kong is aware that a significant number of players downvote games without playing them or else the option wouldn’t be made available. This increases the rating (as the docs themselves state).
  • the soft launch option means feedback, bug fixes, early rating etc can consolidate over time. Regular games need to make an immediate impact to be featured – a single player that gradually climbs up the ratings will not be frontpaged or badged.

Most of this doesn’t really bother me most of the time. The MMOs are taken out of the weekly contest, which I’m fine with. Other games still get badges, although I’d prefer a higher ratio of non-MMO games being badged compared to MMOs. In fact, if the MMOs weren’t badged, I don’t think i’d care at all.

But this week, Legacy of a Thousand Suns got badges, and it’s literally just a reskin of one of the developers other games, which was also badged. Not a clone, a literal reskin. This is horrendous. It means that someone out to collect badges (an important part of the site for many people) has to play the exact same game through twice if they want both sets of badges. And yes, it’s a game with a restrictive energy system that forces you to play it many times over before you can meet the requirements. I don’t understand how either Kong or the developer can justify this other than in terms of how much extra money it makes them for virtually no effort.

I don’t have a problem with Kong making revenue from these games, or favoring the games that will do the best for it, but I feel insulted that a developer can upload the same game twice, and receive badges on it both times, especially when winning the badges is likely to take 20+ plays of the game.

I also feel that Kongregate could do more to make players aware of the different treatment for MMO games. It’s obvious there are differences, Kong’s own docs say so, but most people won’t read those.