Forums Kongregate

Off-site content?!?

25 posts

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Look, Kong is owned by GameStop now, and it seems like it’d be a good idea to keep players on-site. Could you PLEASE implement a rule where anyone posting a game has to post the complete game, and can’t post “extra content” on other sites to divert players from Kongregate?

This is an amazing site, and there’s so much more than enough to do here that players should feel little need to leave if site-based gaming is what they’re looking for. Playing an otherwise excellent game and then finding out half of it is only on Armor Games or some nonsense is just frustrating; the average websurfer isn’t going to want to have to establish memberships at a dozen or more different sites just to be sure they can fully enjoy the games found on Kong.

 
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Why not? That’s how a lot of people found Kongregate.

 
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I can see how it would bother you a bit when a game has something like “Go to <sitename> to unlock this awesome new hero/unit/item/thingiemabob!”

But really, those developers do bring a lot of players to Kongregate. I think it’s only fair that there’s an incentive for us Kongregate gamers to check out their site.

As long as the off-site content isn’t too important, I don’t really mind it.

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:

Why not? That’s how a lot of people found Kongregate.

It’s how I found Kongregate. Epic War 3 had some hero that was Kong only, and having liked the game enough, I made an account. I never heard of Kong until an ad for it was in Epic War 3. I thought the name Kongregate was silly. I thought why would a site name itself something so random? I was intrigued enough to visit it.

I think it is fine to link to your main site. Kong isn’t everyone main site, so I have no issue with linking elsewhere.

 
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Their incentive at this point is the rather lucrative Kred system. Kreds can be gotten through a variety of means and are how developers get paid for their efforts… whether they put pay-to-play material in their game or not. Kong via GameStop could easily afford to just use banner ads on other sites to bring traffic in, especially via Google’s fantastic advertising tools.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t allow people go go to other websites or any such… a game could easily have all the links they have now for Armor Games and the like, various developers, etc etc, but I’m saying that Kong should insist a game posted on their site should not have content restricted to another site… after all, the developers and publishers DO have the opportunity to benefit from the Kred system, and shouldn’t readily argue if they want the continued opportunity.

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:

Why not? That’s how a lot of people found Kongregate.

Same. Warlords: Call To Arms was sponsored by Kong. I wanted Undead, so I came to Kong. Saw the Kongai Cards, saw badges. Wanted ’em. Registered, and here I am. Late 2010 was when I started to socialise in the forums.

 
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Look, all I’m saying is that Kong is an opportunity to make real money via Kreds. They should be able to say “no extra off-site content” without it being a major issue.

I don’t know about you guys, but I tip when I like a game.

 
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Why would they do that, though? It’s standard practice, so they’d be alienating themselves from all the other gaming sites. Besides, it brings traffic to Kongregate, so shouldn’t they return the favour?

What does tipping have to do with anything?

 
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Originally posted by jonny0panic:

Look, all I’m saying is that Kong is an opportunity to make real money via Kreds. They should be able to say “no extra off-site content” without it being a major issue.

I don’t know about you guys, but I tip when I like a game.

Tipping is going to be removed next month, though that’s not the main issue here.


The thing is, is that Kong benefits from traffic coming in from other sites. So do devs. It’s a win-win situation. If Kong prohibits games with off-site content from being uploaded to their site, then developers simply won’t upload their games to other sites. Furthermore, a lot of developers upload their games to other sites with Kong-exclusive content—in such a scenario, other sites won’t allow those games on their site, and the devs will lose out.

So this proposal would cause Kong to lose out on traffic and revenue, but more importantly, it will cause developers to lose a tremendous amount of revenue from multiple sites. Kreds can help, but very few non-MMO games offer Kred packages (and most people want that trend to continue, not be reversed due to unreasonable business demands).

 
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Kong benefits from being the game site for GameStop at least as much as from any traffic it may garner from other sites. Quite the opposite, other sites should be glad to be able to have games on Kongregate because GameStop gives them a level of exposure they wouldn’t otherwise have:

AG posts a game on Kong, with a splash screen for AG.
Game is popular, AG splash screen is seen by many people, both Kong fans and people who have come to Kong from GS advertising.
AG garners traffic from such exposure, including the influx of GS customers who would otherwise not have investigated if it weren’t for GS’ advertising of Kong.

IMO, removing tipping is a mistake, but one that could easily be rectified by developers offering small in-game boosts for the likes of 5 Kreds (see Icy Gifts, they let you increase the upgrade cap from 5 to 8 for 5 Kreds, not necessary to win the game but a nice touch of reciprocation for a small tip). However, if the likes of AG wants me to look in on their site, I guarantee I’ll be a lot more impressed with AG if they don’t do this silly nonsense with the likes of Bubble Tanks and Bubble Tanks TD.

(No, those aren’t the only games I have this issue with. They’re just very prominent.)

 
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Game Stop doesn’t really factor into this, at all. Secondly, if ArmorGames makes a game and uploads it here, I have no problem with a splash screen. Seriously, it’s a splash screen, it’s no big deal. Of course developers are going to upload their games to multiple sites, it’s how they maximize their profits. Some developers get sponsored so it’s not unreasonable for the sponsor to have a splash screen.

 
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GameStop TOTALLY factors into this. My wife is in advertising, and I’m fully aware just how much GameStop matters when they put information and links and incentives for/about Kongregate in their ads, their stores, their website and their points reward system. It plays a HUGE factor in getting traffic to this site.

 
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Then people will just not post their games on here which is arguably worse.

 
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Nonsense.

I’m not saying don’t make games with some premium content. This could range from small items like cute-but-unnecessary extras for small amounts as an attempt to garner “tips” to full-blown microtransaction-driven content like many mmo’s have. I’m fine with this.

Kongregate has a level of exposure most game sites don’t have, via their association with GameStop. This is a whole new level of exposure other sites cannot afford, and posting games on Kongregate is a brand new level of exposure.

What I’m saying is, in exchange for the glorious new scale of exposure Kongregate represents, I don’t think they’d be out of line to simply request that, if you’re going to post a game on here, post the whole thing. Put your splash screen on it, fine. Put a note in there saying please buy X small item as a way to tip us if you like the game, fine. Excise part of the game and keep it on your site alone while still enjoying all the profit opportunities and exposure Kong provides, not fine.

 
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Except that that request would ultimately result in fewer developers releasing the most popular games on Kongregate.

The bigger developers have certain gaming sites as sponsors and as such they have a contract with them. Sometimes it’s site exclusivity for a certain period of time, other times it’s site locked content. Basically telling developers to break their contract with the sponsor or don’t post games on Kongregate will only result in developers not posting their games on Kongregate. I know I’m about the 4th or 5th person to tell you, but it’s just as true now as it was the 1st time it was said.

Armor Games and Kongregate actually have right around the same amount of traffic, so even Gamestop’s association with Kongregate, they’ve passed Armor Games, but haven’t left them in the dust.

The reality is simply this, if you start imposing draconian methods on people who want to post games on your site, unsurprisingly there’s going to be a backlash against you. There’s no real reason for Kongregate to demand that all content be unlocked on a game, because there are plenty of games on Kongregate that have sitelocked content. Doing so would only serve to restrict the flash gaming community because it would be more likely that other sites would not let Kongregate games on their site with sitelocked content either. It’s just so incredibly unnecessary.

 
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Originally posted by poisonthewell:

one thing i learned about posting on a kong board is this,you will always encounter people who dont agree with you ,and put there spin on things,making the whole entire board,non productive,just the person making the board will end up defending himself over people who dont agree with him

am i the only one who see’s this going on?

No.

 
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Well, you’ll always encounter people who disagree with you anywhere, regardless. xD
But there are also people who understand what you’re saying, so it balances out!

 
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Ludicrous. This is productive.

However, I would like to note that I’m certain the site-specific contracts for some games (/me eyeballs Gemcraft and Bubble Tanks lines of games) have likely expired, as some of them are several years old.

And I seriously doubt developers would be less likely to publish a game of Kong… with it’s revenue opportunities and exceptional exposure… just because Kong asked that they post a game in full and not keep some content off-site.

 
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I think you’re overestimating the exposure that Gamestop gives Kongregate.

 
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And I seriously doubt developers would be less likely to publish a game of Kong […] just because Kong asked that they post a game in full and not keep some content off-site.

Actually, they would. A large source of revenue for any one popular game comes from primary sponsorships. How those usually work is a site pays the dev some lump sum of money in exchange for promotion in the game (clickable links and banners) in addition to things like a period of exclusivity where the game is only available on the sponsor’s site or locked content for that site. The sponsor banner is pretty universal, but other stipulations vary from sponsor to sponsor. If a developer signed a contract with a sponsor and was able to get a better price from them because they included content exclusive to the sponsor’s site, they would have to break their contract in order to host the game complete with the exclusive contract on Kongregate.

 
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I found Kong basically through GS and that’s the reason why I joined.

 
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I think a lot of people are still missing my point about cross-site traffic. In my scenario, there’s still nothing stopping a developer from linking back to their page or site and vice versa, so all this talk about how people found one site through another is moot. That would still work just fine, nothing changes there.

As for GS influence, I found Kong via GS news, and got a GS points card because of Kong. I work with several people who have done the same thing in the same order, once one of them (“Matt”) found out about the whole deal in the first place. Given that we all spend on Kong… and not just tips, you guys need to move away from that coz I’m tired of the half-dozen-ish people who got stuck on it, but actual spending. To wit: I’m pretty sure we all now have debit cards linked to Kong AND GameStop.com, and it all started when we got wind of the deal in the first place.

So no, I don’t think I’m overestimating the exposure. With my colleagues and I, it did exactly what it was supposed to do, and I do suspect others are similarly influenced. I think you underestimate how advertising a site full of little games and opportunities to post your own AND make points for video game gear and services can be alluring to the general game-loving public.

 
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Originally posted by jonny0panic:

I think a lot of people are still missing my point about cross-site traffic. In my scenario, there’s still nothing stopping a developer from linking back to their page or site and vice versa, so all this talk about how people found one site through another is moot. That would still work just fine, nothing changes there.

And I think you’ve missed the point that’s been made a half dozen times, including from a Kongregate admin (rawismojo), that many developers have contracts with sites as sponsors, and usually worked into those deals are clauses for exclusive content for that site. If Kongregate tells developers they can’t have exclusive off-site content, then the developers won’t post their games on Kongregate because it would be a breach of contract with their sponsors to post that content.

As far as the GameStop influence, anecdotal evidence is not valid for larger claims like this. You may have come here because of GameStop, but that doesn’t mean that GameStop is single handedly responsible for all of Kongregate’s success over the last two years. If Kongregate had a monstrously huge market share of the Flash game market, then they would be in a position to do something like this. But they’re not, they may have the largest share right now, but Armor Games is very close to what Kongregate has, so it’s not by a wide margin. As such it makes absolutely no sense for Kongregate to think that they can bully and push developers around and think that there won’t be any negative consequences.

The reality is that even if putting more restrictions on what games developers could post would help Kongregate in the short term, in the long term it would only make them look less developer friendly. And that’s the #1 thing that Kongregate prides itself on, being the most flash game developer friendly website on the internet.

 
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then the developers won’t post their games on Kongregate

Which is exactly why Kong wouldn’t want to prohibit this.

 
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TL:DR – Newgrounds does it, ArmorGames does it, Kongregate does it. I discovered Kongregate through ArmorGames (iirc) because a game I liked limited my features.