Forums Kongregate

Signature Suggestion page 2

64 posts

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Originally posted by EPR89:
Originally posted by Lordmin:

I don’t know why everyone hates sigs… Having a little piece of information below your post isn’t that bad.

It’s spam.
Spam is bad. It’s annoying, it’s unrelated to the topic and not everything will be interested in a little bit of information about you.

What’s the problem with keeping this restricted to your profile page?

How is having a signature considered “spam”?

A signature, by default, has nothing to do with the topic. It has nothing to do with the very post either. It is a separate space for any user to put whatever information they want in (assuming they are within the guidelines set by the administrators) to differentiate themselves from the rest of the forum. It cannot be considered spam
if it not even part of the thread or post.

 
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The About Me functions as a signature, but it has the added bonus of being opt-in, instead of being obnoxiously forced upon you.

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:

The About Me functions as a signature, but it has the added bonus of being opt-in, instead of being obnoxiously forced upon you.

A signature can be as simple as a link to a song or a sentence reading “Hi, my name is Bob”.

I fail to see how that is being obnoxiously forced upon you. Being a part, and occasionally a moderator, of various forums this has never been a problem. In most forums every member has its own separate profile, where other members can view realistically the same information they provide on their signature, if not more. This is almost exactly the same situation we’re dealing with here, and this particular argument has never been stated, because frankly I don’t think it even makes sense.

 
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It can be as simple as that, but it isn’t necessarily as simple as that.

Let’s put it this way. The forum used to support Youtube embedding, but it was taken away. Why, you ask? Because people were making threads with autoplay videos that were 1×1 pixels big.

People take things and abuse the shit out of it to troll each other for the “lulz”. They still do that in About Mes, but at least it’s opt in. If there’s signatures, people will do the same thing, troll each other for the “lulz” but on the forums. To opt out of that is to ignore the forums completely – destroying the community.

 
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If something like this is implemented, then you should take for granted that there will be guidelines regarding the use of signatures and what content is acceptable. If someone is violating these guidelines, they have their signature changed or removed. This way people are still allowed to have their own section of content below their posts, and the forums and consequently, the community is not destroyed, as you say.

Just because there have been instances with people abusing various aspects of the site, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they will also abuse this one.

 
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Originally posted by ThyAmaranthine:

Just because there have been instances with people abusing various aspects of the site, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they will also abuse this one.

Conversely, just because some people respect the rules doesn’t mean everyone will. There are numerous members of the community who have been permanently banned and simply come back with a new account. Kong policy in most cases is to grant a clean slate for new accounts.

Originally posted by ThyAmaranthine:

A signature, by default, has nothing to do with the topic. It has nothing to do with the very post either. It is a separate space for any user to put whatever information they want in (assuming they are within the guidelines set by the administrators) to differentiate themselves from the rest of the forum.

You are already differentiated simply by merit of having a unique userID and username in addition to a customizable avatar in every forum post.

 
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That’s the very reason the site has forum moderators. To make sure the members follow the set rules.

I trust that you understand differentiation is not the only reason people would like to see signatures on these forums. It is a feature that, while not mandatory, is nice to have on forums. Personally, I want to see signatures on the forums, just because I like to see how creative people can get. I’m sorry but such a feature doesn’t harm the community in any way of those that were previously mentioned.

 
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Sounds like a lot of extra work moderating for little to no payoff.


~DRK

 
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Then assign more moderators. If the community wants something like this to happen and the staff decides to implement it, it would be fair to assume that they would have taken this under consideration.

As for little to no payoff, your profile shouts serve absolutely no purpose and Kongregate would run just fine without them; yet, this particular feature is enabled. Does it open up opportunities for people to troll and create disturbance? Absolutely. Then why is no one complaining about it? I’ll go as far as to say that if you people think signatures would be that big of a problem, then add a feature enabling forum users to show or hide the sigs.

Thing is, I see no actual reasons for not enabling signatures. In fact all I’m seeing is people complaining “just because”, without actually providing any arguments against sigs, without even presenting a single problem they, and only they would cause.

 
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Then assign more moderators.

That’s not how it works.

You’re ignoring the fundamental argument. You can never, ever visit someone’s profile and still have wholesome and fuffilling engagement with the community. If you want to opt out of forum signatures you cannot use the forum and it can be argued that the forum is the most important aspect of the community. Without the community, this site is nothing.

[Edit: As well, you seem to be under the impression that the devs just need to write a few lines of code and then it’s all well and good. They need to implement the forum signature feature, but there’s so much more to that. There needs to be a lot of back-end moderation added. New reasons, all the coding associated with that, and the forum modding/admins tools associated with that. The admins needs to come up with guidelines for them and educate all the existing forum mods on it.

A lot more goes into things then just “it happening” and all those things cost money. Developers and administrators don’t work for free, so Kongregate needs to pay them to do all these things. They need to look at how they allocate their resources and plan them to be the most efficient possible. Would they rather have forum signatures, which most of the player base will never use; there’s a lot that won’t use them, a lot will have very similar information to their About Me (redundant feature) and the rest will troll or would they rather have a meaningful feature that affects a wider audience? Speaking to the moderator side of it, the community admins need to get everyone up to speed and spend time developing guidelines and a set of rules. That too, takes time and money to do. They already have so much on their plates right now, stuff to keep up with on a daily basis – to much stuff to do on a daily basis, really – that they don’t need this extra work.]

 
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Originally posted by ThyAmaranthine:

Thing is, I see no actual reasons for enabling signatures.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by adv0catus:
If you want to opt out of forum signatures you cannot use the forum

That’s obviously not true since it would be minimal work on Kong’s part to add a toggle to display sigs for users, if they were already adding sigs. Plus, you can say the same thing about avatars, but it’s a pretty weird thing to say.

Originally posted by adv0catus:
and it can be argued that the forum is the most important aspect of the community. Without the community, this site is nothing.

If the forum was relevant to Kong as a business, we’d see a lot more work going into it. The reality is more likely that the forum accounts for a minimal amount of user retention, a tiny number of the userbase’s community interactions, and probably a tiny fraction of ad revenue. Since half the forum regulars promote adblock every chance they can, even that seems like something the community would rather Kong didn’t get.

Also I don’t get why the potential developement time for Kong would affect your personal opinion on sigs, that doesn’t really have any relevance to whether users want a feature or not :P

Originally posted by adv0catus:
Would they rather have forum signatures, which most of the player base will never use; there’s a lot that won’t use them

Huh, so much for the forums being this central hub of everything then.

 
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I never said that the forums were a ‘central hub’, so don’t put words in my mouth. I said it could be argued that it’s the most important aspect. Also, quoting one line of my post to justify attacking me on non-relevant things is weak. Good job.

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:

I never said that the forums were a ‘central hub’, so don’t put words in my mouth. I said it could be argued that it’s the most important aspect. Also, quoting one line of my post to justify attacking me on non-relevant things is weak. Good job.

Really, you thought my post was an attack, just because I didn’t agree with you? Are we talking like “super effective! Advocatus has fainted!” or “someone disagreed with me on the internet HOW DARE HE!!”?

Anyway, while we’re on the topic of semantics, here’s the definition of hub: A center of activity or interest; a focal point. If you replace “central hub” in my earlier post with “most important aspect of the community” you get pretty much the same meaning, though. Try it if you like.

Btw I actually wrote three other paragraphs aside from the one line you replied to. Just saying since you seem a bit hung up on a pretty simple difference in wording.

 
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@advocatus: Your idea of how moderating a forum works seems pretty wrong me. For the forum mods, changing a signature can be as simple as an edit and save button. It cannot be argued that the forums are the most important aspect of a gaming site with 76,000+ games and a chat feature on top of that, and then again, even if it was, this statement supports my opinion more than it does yours.

That’s not how it works.

Yes, that is exactly how it works. If moderating user signatures proves to be too much work for the existing moderators (which I highly doubt), then the solution is as simple as assigning more moderators to help control the site.

Now regarding the “extra work” the developers would have to do if they decided to enable signatures; this is pretty much what happens every single time they launch a Kongregate version, but I don’t see you complaining about that. If they decide to enable them, it will be part of a newer Kongregate version, the same way it has been happening all along.


@LouWeed: The reason to enable signatures is the very fact that there is no reason not to. Unless anyone here provides any solid reason they could be so dangerous and harmful to the community, why are we even having this conversation? Because no one has done so so far, including you I’m afraid.

 
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Heres the big issue about sigs. We have no possible reason to want them, and they cause so many issues, it seems silly to make them.

 
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Originally posted by bjjdude:

Heres the big issue about sigs. We have no possible reason to want them, and they cause so many issues, it seems silly to make them.

Which issues are those exactly? ‘Cause almost every single forum has them and they have managed to run just fine. I find it ironic that you guys claim to care about the community and how it’s going to be “destroyed” by the implementation of signatures, the same community that according to you, is incapable of agreeing to following simple, rudimentary rules. In case you didn’t know, the majority of this community is not the trolls.

All I’m seeing from almost ever single person posting here, is mentioning there are issues, without specifying them, quite possibly because they haven’t even thought of any.

 
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Originally posted by ThyAmaranthine:
Originally posted by bjjdude:

Heres the big issue about sigs. We have no possible reason to want them, and they cause so many issues, it seems silly to make them.

Which issues are those exactly? ‘Cause almost every single forum has them and they have managed to run just fine. I find it ironic that you guys claim to care about the community and how it’s going to be “destroyed” by the implementation of signatures, the same community that according to you, is incapable of agreeing to following simple, rudimentary rules. In case you didn’t know, the majority of this community is not the trolls.

All I’m seeing from almost ever single person posting here, is mentioning there are issues, without specifying them, quite possibly because they haven’t even thought of any.

Why do we need them though? one of the best things about these fourms are how clean they are, If every image has a gamerscore and their super l33t K/D then it’s just ugly and polluted, Also it can spread fandoms around (their would be pony images put into the sigs if images are allowed) It just seems like it’s far more trouble than it’s worth.

 
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I still think small little signatures, either at the bottom of posts or underneath the avatar is a friendly contribution to the “social aspect” of this site. If they are not permitted to be used generally then make a particular forum thread where you can show off and compare signatures. It’s about showing individuality and creativity, something Kongregate must encourage.

 
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It’s about showing individuality and creativity

It’s no good if somebody can only show their «individuality» and «creativity» with nothing better than forum signatures.

Which issues are those exactly?

The difference between signatures and usual posts/info in profile, is that signatures are repeated in every post, taking precious space, and being usually unrelated to main post. Practically in every case, signature may be successfully replaced by a post, a thread, or info in profile.
And imo post counts are not necessary as well; some people may just post in order to not contribute to discussion, but to increase the counter, not caring much about if their post even makes any sense.

 
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It’s no good if somebody can only show their «individuality» and «creativity» with nothing better than forum signatures.

It’s better than «nothing». I’m not saying I support signatures, but I don’t condone them.

 
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@bjjdude: Imagine you post in the art forums a lot. Having a signature allows you to show part fo your talent via a small image that you have possibly created, as well as provide contact information if anyone is interested in working with you. Why do they necessarily have to go to your profile to do so, if you can add a link to your e-mail or your personal site on your signature? Signatures are not necessarily KDA scores and do not “pollute” the forums in any way. As I previously said, most forums have been running with sigs active and face little to no problems with them. Why should these particular forums be the exception?

@j64e: Signatures should not be considered part of the post, because they are not. Think of them as an extension of the box that is located left to your post, listing your post count, username and avatar.

As for the precious space they occupy, please. If you have any more actual problems except the 2 added seconds it would take to move the mouse wheel, then tell us so.

It’s no good if somebody can only show their «individuality» and «creativity» with nothing better than forum signatures.

Please read the post again.

 
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Originally posted by bjjdude:
Also it can spread fandoms around (their would be pony images put into the sigs if images are allowed) It just seems like it’s far more trouble than it’s worth.

What’s wrong with that, in a way that isn’t wrong with avatars?

Originally posted by bjjdude:

and they cause so many issues, it seems silly to make them.

I went back through the thread to find all the examples of issues that sigs are alleged to cause, and most of them look like attempts to justify disliking sigs or to keep things as they are, rather than reasons to dislike them:

  • Dev time for Kong (irrelevant, doesn’t affect user impressions of a feature)
  • Moderation time (irrelevant, same as above)
  • Potential for spam / misuse (irrelevant, any user created feature of the site has the same potential)
  • “I personally don’t like sigs” (acceptable, but equal weight to “I personally do like sigs”)
  • Spread pony images around (good reason, we should ban all pony related postings)
  • “You can’t use the forums if you don’t like sigs” (obviously untrue)
  • “Kong wouldn’t make it opt in, so nobody could avoid it” (logical fallacy)
  • “Sigs are spam” (debateable in itself)
  • DDOS attack / hack fears (fair point, but applies elsewhere on the site. Also, user ignorance isn’t necessary a reason not to want a feature, or else we wouldn’t have badges)
  • Page rendering time increased (reasonable point, but we’re on a Flash gaming site where pages are frequently 10mb or more, so a long shot really)
  • “I like sigs on other sites but not on Kong” (do I need to explain this one?)
  • “I prefer clean looking forums” (fair point and a legit justification for not wanting sigs)

You could do the same thing for the reasons for having sigs, and I think you’d find that on each side of the debate you’re only left with “I like sigs” or “I don’t like sigs”. Which are both valid opinions, but look increasingly ridiculous when they’re surrounded with statements like “sigs would destroy Kongregate for everyone” or “peoples’ computers would start exploding if sigs were allowed”.

 
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I guess my last post was too subtle.


~DRK

 
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Originally posted by ThyAmaranthine:

@LouWeed: The reason to enable signatures is the very fact that there is no reason not to. Unless anyone here provides any solid reason they could be so dangerous and harmful to the community, why are we even having this conversation? Because no one has done so so far, including you I’m afraid.

That isn’t a reason at all I’m afraid. According to that logic, Kong should do a whole lot of things they don’t already do:
- Kong should change the background of the forums from plain white to green with purple polka dots
- Kong should have a feature for users to upload and view amusing pictures of cats
- Kong should have a forum to discuss popular music
And so on. Use your imagination. Until you can come up with some compelling reason why signatures should be added to the forums, further discussion is pointless. Burden of proof and all that.