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A Very Special Homework Assignment for Everyone!

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As some of you may know, the #1 criterion for a game getting a badge is its user rating. No, it’s not “how many comments are demanding a badge,” or “how many ‘needz badge’ tags there are”; it’s simpler than that. I sort the site by rating, sift through the games that have a working, clean API implementation, then go from there.

Yesterday, Thing-Thing 2, with its 3.88 rating and perfect API implementation, found itself ripe for a badge! Now, less than 24 hours later, the score has dropped to 3.60. The badge is not long or difficult — all you need to do is complete the game, which is relatively short. Shouldn’t take more than 10 minutes.

Regardless, if you read through the comments of the past 24 hours, well, it seems that putting a badge in this game was a huge mistake. So don’t let this mistake happen again! It’s all up to you guys! All you need to do is click here to get a “Greg’s eye view” of future badge candidates. Is there a game rated highly that you don’t think deserves a badge? Then exercise your power and rate it down now, before it’s too late!. Is there a game with a rating too low to get a badge? Then rate it up!

We at Kongregate try to give as much power to you, the users, as we possibly can. Games on the front page are placed there almost entirely by user ratings. Contests are decided entirely by user ratings. I even do sponsorship deals occasionally where the payout is based on user ratings. Eventually, we want chat rooms to be moderated by users. And, yes, users really do have a tremendous amount of power when it comes to deciding which games get achievements.

So please, exercise this power while it’s still relevant, rather than whining about “my” decisions afterward. It would be greatly appreciated.

 
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Woo, homework! I’ll check what games I don’t think they deserve a badge…

Although we already know badges lower scores. Yes, yes, DO2 was an exception. But a few comments here in the forums will never satisfy everyone, including whiners.

 
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Thanks for giving us this power Greg! The Thing Thing badge… man, getting through the game was easy, but I fail within 20 seconds of the boss.

I don’t think games should be rated on the badges they were given though, it’s not fair to the game.

 
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I don’t think games should be rated on the badges they were given though, it’s not fair to the game.

I could not agree more, but that’s a whole separate issue.

 
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Thanks for the homework! :)

I must say though, I think a more useful list (though one that might be hard to generate) would be a list of all games that have the API implemented, and perhaps filter out those that already have badges. For example, Onslaught 2 is very highly rated, but last I checked it didn’t have the API.

In any case, thanks for making your selection process as transparent as possible – it’s nice for everyone to know how things work around here.

 
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Onslaught 2 is very highly rated, but last I checked it didn’t have the API.

Huh? Onslaught 2 had a card, and it sounds strange to me the developer removed the API after that…

 
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Honestly I don’t even know if user rating is always a good indicator of badge-worthiness, but that’s just me. There are plenty of underrated games on this site that could have some really fun badges that would perhaps raise its rating. Usually when you badge a game, a game gets downrated if they get pissed off at it.

Instead, I think it’s better to really look for games that have some room for some fun badges that would make the gaming experience more enjoyable, and in turn allow people to see different facets of a given game and perhaps enjoy it more and rate it more favorably.

 
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Oh yeah, I didn’t realize there were games that COULDN’T have badges. How do we know? Anyway, I am really diggin Electric Man right now!

 
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Wow – apparently my memory completely failed me on Onslaught…oops… In any case, I think the point still stands. (though I’m surprised such a highly-rated game doesn’t have a badge…greg… ;-) )

MrRubix: Instead, I think it’s better to really look for games that have some room for some fun badges that would make the gaming experience more enjoyable, and in turn allow people to see different facets of a given game and perhaps enjoy it more and rate it more favorably.

I think this is done, but in reverse. Greg does try to find ways to make the badges fun and interesting in the games, but due to the size of the site, and the community-oriented nature, it makes sense to allow the community to filter out games they aren’t interested in.

On the other hand, the “Greg’s Picks” section is a great way to find some lesser-known (and lower-rated) games that are pretty good, and if you like those, then you can rate them up and perhaps get a badge for them.

 
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I think, Greg, that if you want to figure out some cool new badges, look at the Badge Suggestions thread a little more often, and pick out a few that have been suggested for fun, high-rated games with API.

I don’t think games should be rated on the badges they were given though, it’s not fair to the game.

I could not agree more, but that’s a whole separate issue.

Maybe I’m going a bit off topic, but I think that this problem is something that can’t be avoided… even if you put a a giant sign saying DON’T RATE GAMES BASED OFF THE BADGES FOR THEM!!!.

Although we already know badges lower scores. Yes, yes, DO2 was an exception. But a few comments here in the forums will never satisfy everyone, including whiners.

I’m seriously wondering why people would rate that game higher based on it’s badges…

So please, exercise this power while it’s still relevant, rather than whining about “my” decisions afterward. It would be greatly appreciated.

I’ve noticed that the thought-out, mature comments are generally in the earlier comment pages, while the immature, whiny, and spammy comments come later in the comment pages.

 
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marh – the reason for the points that you’re making is that a badge/card draws players to a game, even if they have no interest in that genre or particular game. As such, the ratings will almost always drop since people are “forced” to play a game they wouldn’t otherwise play. This is also probably why you get more dumb comments later-on too. In the case of DO2, perhaps it’s just a game that most people didn’t think they’d like until they tried it (I know that’s the category I fit it).

 
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Yesterday, Thing-Thing 2, with its 3.88 rating and perfect API implementation, found itself ripe for a badge! Now, less than 24 hours later, the score has dropped to 3.60. The badge is not long or difficult—all you need to do is complete the game, which is relatively short. Shouldn’t take more than 10 minutes.

you sure it wasn’t cause more people played the game and they didn’t like it much or do you know whether users changed there ratings after the badge came out?

p.s i just looked at the first page of the highly rated games and i think they’d be fine with badges.Then again most of them do have them :P

 
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DO2 probably had raised ratings once people understood more about it. The badges basically tell you what’s possible and it gives players incentive to try. When a player delves a bit deeper and suddenly figures out that you can get that dolphin soaring, it becomes a game interpreted in a different fashion. Most people probably played the game pre-badge for just a few minutes because they simply thought “Oh, you just jump around in some water” and had no idea you could reach a freaking restaurant in space.

However, it’s undeniable that badges are popular. I love them, myself! And many people will play a game if it has badges and probably wouldn’t play it otherwise. However, you are drawing both lovers of the game as well as haters, and you’re more likely to get more haters unless you make your badges really enjoyable, and unless you pick games that aren’t unreasonably low-scorers to begin with. I just feel that you’re missing out on a lot of potential by only looking at popular ratings.

Then again I am speaking selfishly because there are a few select games I’d really love to see unique badges for (I have a few in mind) but may not get badges soon due to its current rating and the unlikelihood that a bunch of people would swarm to these games unless they had badges in the first place.

 
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I don’t do homework.

 
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Hmmm…Rubix, you’re beginning to sway me a bit. I personally would be fine trusting greg to develop good badges on any game he sees fit. Of course, considering how much complaining goes on when he gives a game with a 4.0 a badge, imagine what happens when it’s a 3.2!

That said, the old adage “You can’t please all of the people all of the time” certainly holds true here. I wonder if Kong’s obsessive dedication to its community (certainly a good thing in most cases) is actually limiting the badge options?

 
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I’d agree. Personally, I think badging a high-rated game can do nothing BUT lower its rating due to statistics alone and general badge frustration. However, I think if you were to badge a popular, fun game that wasn’t say, initially a 4-star rating but maybe a 3-star, I doubt the rating would drop to the 2 level in most cases, especially if the badges were fun. If anything, the rating might go up a bit due to the added visibility (think DO2). Again, I think this is another reason why user rating alone isn’t sufficient.

Besides, I personally think badges are a great way to discover hidden gems in this site. There are so many really fun games on this site that get totally overlooked, and I think badges would be a huge boost not only to their ratings and visibility, but also provide some variety to the badge types so we don’t run the risk of re-badging the same types of games over and over.

 
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I think for an average user, the decision on how highly to rate a game will be made based on how good they think the game is, or how much they enjoyed it. Not on how badgeworthy they think the game is. And those two things can sometimes be very different.
With that in mind, it seems kind of harsh to tell people to downrate games that they think wouldn’t be suitable for badges.

If a high score doesn’t necessarily mean a game should be badged, maybe the wrong criteria is being used to decide which games get them. Like Marh suggested, the badge suggestions thread seems like a better way to find games that would suit badges. Its still leaving the power in the hands of the users, in a different way. But I can appreciate it would be more work to sift through.

 
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With that in mind, it seems kind of harsh to tell people to downrate games that they think wouldn’t be suitable for badges.

My suggestion was more about downrating games that people don’t like, rather than downrating games they feel wouldn’t be appropriate for badges. It’s really hard for me to imagine liking a game, but not wanting a badge in it. If a game is really inappropriate for badges (such as Notessimo or Punk-O-Matic), then I won’t force badges into them just because the rating is high.

 
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I’ll come out and say I was part of the down-rating of Thing-Thing 2, but not because it got a badge. Rather I played it because it had a badge, and didn’t find it to be fun enough to merit a 4/5. Perhaps that’s part of it, that a bunch of people who wouldn’t have otherwise played the game are now trying it out to get the badge, and therefore likely rating it down.

Regardless I’m gonna do my homework on the next games :P.

 
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  • copies the homework from my nerdis classmate*
 
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Homework? D: Will there be a test next lesson?

 
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My suggestion was more about downrating games that people don’t like, rather than downrating games they feel wouldn’t be appropriate for badges. It’s really hard for me to imagine liking a game, but not wanting a badge in it. If a game is really inappropriate for badges (such as Notessimo or Punk-O-Matic), then I won’t force badges into them just because the rating is high.

Well I mean for me I don’t just rate games because I like them i.e have fun playing them, because I’m a very selective person when it comes to games I like. I rate games based on their creativity, complexity, graphics, and their storyline, and use of different technical aspects like sound cues and etcetera.

And sometimes a game I like I don’t think would make for a very interesting badge for instance spin swim:blue is a FUN game by the concept is really simple and the kinda of badge challenge can’t be more challenging than survive X amount of time, and that doesn’t make for a fun badge since it so simple and their are “tons” of badges that are like that. But I love the game so i rated it high, it’s concept is good (disorientation and techno), but it makes for a really boring badge.

 
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My definately genuine masters degree in Intelligology, coupled with my artificially gargantuan volcabulary leads me to believe that Storm the House 2 is indeed deserving of one of your achievable monument system.

Moochy, finks dat game is gud.

Edit: The game has four difficulty levels. There are four kinds of badge.
Do not do a badge to get to level ~50 on each difficulty, pleaasssse….(crys)
We already had that with balloon invasion! Now we’re bored!

 
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Storm the House was ok… did I miss somewhere that spacebar is reload? I button mashed to figure that out when I ran out of ammo.

 
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Too bad I’ve already voted 5 for Drunken Masters which definitely needs (tons of) badges. You could make them very different, from how far you are into the game, to how much money you make, to the points, to the tricks etc. etc.