Kongai suggestion: STARTER Cards become Weekly TRIAL Cards

Here’s an idea:

Every player can pick and repick three “STARTER” cards every week.

However, his Starter cards will “expire” every week. When the cards expire, he will have to repick three cards.

The catch: He won’t be able to pick any of the same three cards again! Not until the next week!

(Edit: More accurately, until the next Starter pick)!

So, if he picks a bad card or bad deck, he will always be able to repick a different deck next week (and stop complaining.)

If he tries a card/deck and likes it, and he wants to use the card/deck again and again week after week, then he’ll have to earn the permanent version of the card/deck!

This also gives everyone a fair chance to experiment with different cards and decks, play with and learn about every card, and find a deck that suits his playing style the best!

Of course, if a player already has his own favorite permanent deck, then he will just skip the Starter cards.

:D

And no one will complain about being stuck with a bad Starter deck, or never being able to win and play with the cards/decks they really want, or being offended by the big ugly “STARTER” label!

And the “STARTER” should be appropriately renamed as the “TRIAL”, “BONUS”, “TEMPORARY” or “WEEKLY” cards.

^{^^^^^^^^^^^^^^}

^{^^The person above me is a GENIUS!}^^

Um… we have Random (All Cards) to experiment, that also helps you in adapting to bad situations. And what if we want to keep those three? Do we just stop playing Kongai for a week because we like using Cain but we can’t have Cain? I can agree it’d be nice to be able to use all cards, but that takes away some of the exclusiveness of the game for me.

I still think Red Box should be a starter card. :(. But, that is a great idea! Maybe then comments will have less spam…

Um… we have Random (All Cards) to experiment, that also helps you in adapting to bad situations.

With random cards, you don’t get the chance to learn about a card.

Here’s how you get to learn how to use a deck/combo:

- You get to play with a deck once and lose, and you learn something about the combo;

- You play with the same deck twice, and you become slightly better with that deck;

- You play with the same deck thrice, and you start to develop a strategy with that deck;

- You play with the same deck again, and you adjust and fine tune your strategy, until you prefect you gameplay with that particular deck.

When you have to play with a random deck every time, you really don’t get to learn much, because you never get the chance to go back and experiment with what you’ve learned from your mistakes.

And what if we want to keep those three? Do we just stop playing Kongai for a week because we like using Cain but we can’t have Cain?

What will most likely happen is this:

Let say if I play with a “TRIAL” Cain card this week, and I like using Cain. However, my Cain keeps getting his butt kicked by, let say, Ashi.

So, next week, when I won’t be able to pick Cain, I’ll get Ashi!

Here’s another scenario: Let say my Cain comes across Rumiko, and I go, “Wow, that Asian chick has some interesting moves! (And those are really nice boobs!) I should try her out next week… In fact, this guy doesn’t know how to use Rumiko, and I already have some ideas on how I’m going to have fun with her…” ;)

Next week, I’ll get to experiment with that card, instead of waiting forever to never get the card—which, by then, I will have forget why I want to try that card in the first place.

And what if we want to keep those three? Do we just stop playing Kongai for a week because we like using Cain but we can’t have Cain?

Right now, there are a lot, a lot of people who stop playing Kongai COMPLETELY because they are stuck with bad starter cards, and they are angry, “Screw it, I ain’t wasting my time with this game.”

And they should leave forever and never look back, because they are screwed, and right now their odds of getting another deck that’s better are almost nil – they’ll likely win and win and keep getting cards that just don’t suit them, or they’ll have to wait forever for the right challenge cards to come along.

Kongregate needs to convince those people to give Kongai another look. If they have a chance to pick a new card next week, then they’ll likely come back and try again.

Otherwise, they’re likely gone, for good, with a bad taste in their mouth.

I can agree it’d be nice to be able to use all cards, but that takes away some of the exclusiveness of the game for me.

Kongai should be about FUN, not “exclusiveness”.

Even if you experiment with three different cards every week, you’ll spend months just to go through every cards. And then you’ll likely want to experiment the same cards with different decks. Most people won’t ever get to experiment with every card, every combo, every deck.

I think it’s selfish for players to think “I don’t want too many people to have my cards because I want to be exclusive,” or “I don’t want anyone else to have my cards – I don’t want them to get to play with my card because I want exclusiveness.”

You “exclusiveness” is a “frustration” and “not fun” for many other players.

DarkMuse, random all is CRAP. Maybe, instead of getting tafari chalice onimaru insignia marquis le morte blood vial, I’d like to pick those three cards as trial cards and, you know, put items that aren’t totally WORTHLESS on to them. You can’t very well “experiment” with random all.

Here comes the controversy and argument…

Ok, I’ll agree that maybe Random All isn’t superior, and both have their advantages.

However, as a CCG, part of the fun should be that cards don’t magically fly into your collection. I like that while I don’t have Vanessa, I can look forward to when I either win her as a challenge card or in a match. I’ll also have some happiness that I got the card I really wanted that day. That’s what I mean by exclusive, not that I’m selfish and want to be the only person with a card or something.

That kind of covers everything I could really say, the Cain-Rumiko issue is more of a person-specific thing.

What this will also do is to encourage players to experiment.

Unlike the permanent Starter cards, the Weekly Trial cards do not permanently penalize people for picking bad decks or experimenting with unusual decks.

I think if we have Weekly Trial Cards, we’ll see a lot of players will start trying out interesting and unusual decks, and then we’ll start seeing people playing with all sorts of really weird, different “WTF is this?!” combos.

Right now, we have a lot of players who never use their starter decks because their starter decks suck. They often use the best cards they’ve earned recently, which means most of them use the same cards – this is especially true for players with few cards, which are most players. That’s why you’re seeing so many Cornelius and Blood Vial this week. Everyone who had few cards and picked bad starters – and that’s most everyone – are using Cornelius and Blood Vial.

However, as a CCG, part of the fun should be that cards don’t magically fly into your collection.

If you try out a card you like, and you want the ownership of that card so you can repeatedly use it, then you’ll still have to earn that card.

People will still want to earn the ownership of something they like, instead of just “renting” it and having it for a week. That’s just how people are.

With the Weekly Trial Cards, people will actually get to try out a card and then find out they like the card, and they want it.

The catch: He won’t be able to pick any of the same three cards again! Not until the next week!

If you feel one-week wait to reuse the same trial card is not enough, then just make them wait two weeks before they will be able to repick the same card.

I feel one week is probably too short (or not.) Two to three weeks may be better. A month wait may be excessive.

Personally, I will try out a different deck every week just to learn how to use them effectively. Right now, I can’t learn anything (or apply a new trick that I’ve just learned or came up) while getting a different random deck every time.

Of course, there are still a few cards that I really want to get for my “Primary Decks.” Given how impossible it is to get the exact cards one wants, it’ll be a looooooong time before I will get those cards – I’ll likely give up on hoping to get them and move on to something else long before then.

So, let me play with a different deck once a week, just to keep me entertained and interested while I’m waiting for the cards I want to show up, (i.e., a different deck that’s not completely random every time that I’m almost guaranteed to lose – who the hell wants to play with a random deck and keep on losing every time? Everyone who has tried playing with random decks avoids it like the plague.)

However, as a CCG, part of the fun should be that cards don’t magically fly into your collection.

No, no, no. This misconception needs to go away. Name one reasonably successful CCG that says, “no, you can’t go out and get the cards you want, you have to wait until the game is gracious enough to randomly give them to you!”

However, as a CCG, part of the fun should be that cards don’t magically fly into your collection. LOL!

Helloooo?

Right now, getting any cards you want in Kongai is all about the right cards “magically” fly into your collection!

When you win a game and actually get a card, what’s that? You certainly have almost no control over whether you’re getting a card or not. It’s all luck and chances. A card just “magically” flies into your collection.

When you win a game and actually get a card that you want, what’s that? You have no control over the card you get. It’s all luck and chances. The card you want just “magically” flies into your collection.

When a challenge gives a card that you actually want, what’s that? You have no control over what card shows up in a challenge. It’s all luck and chances. The card you want just “magically” appear in a challenge!

Getting Kongai cards is all about luck and chances, and you have absolutely zero control over it. It’s all pretty “magical” if you haven’t realized it already.

The Round Peg: Changing the time span would probably be a good idea, and I feel that’s better for me. Though I’d like to see some flexibility in it, like you have to change every X-Y days, so if you find you absolutely detest using a card you thought you would have liked, you can get rid of it faster, while you can stay with the cards you like or aren’t done testing yet.

The Round Peg & ChadMiller: I probably stated that incorrectly, I was busy chatting with a friend and wanted to get the post over with. Though that point’s made moot now by the above.

Changing the time span would probably be a good idea, and I feel that’s better for me. Though I’d like to see some flexibility in it, like you have to change every X-Y days, so if you find you absolutely detest using a card you thought you would have liked, you can get rid of it faster, while you can stay with the cards you like or aren’t done testing yet.

People still has to skip the same card between trials. The “no repeat card in consecutive trial decks” rule still applies even if they stop playing Kongai for weeks.

For example, let say you pick three trial cards this week. You play Kongai with the trial deck for a day or two, and then you stop playing.

You skip two weeks, or three, or even more.

Let say a month later, you come back. Now your last trial deck has expired (in this case, it expired three weeks ago.) You have to pick a new trial deck, and you can’t pick any of the three cards that were in your last trial deck.

The same rule still applies: you can’t pick a card that’s already in your last trial deck. You will be able to pick it again in your next trial deck (or the one after the next, depending on how the rule is set up.)

In the OP, I wrote:

The catch: He won’t be able to pick any of the same three cards again! Not until the next week!

More accurately, you/he won’t be able to pick any of the same three cards until the next trial deck.

I’m not fully clear on what you’re trying to convey. I think you’re saying that if the time range was 7 days for a change, if I wait for 14, I still have to pick different cards. Please tell me if I’m incorrect.

I’m not fully clear on what you’re trying to convey. I think you’re saying that if the time range was 7 days for a change, if I wait for 14, I still have to pick different cards. Please tell me if I’m incorrect.

Yeah.

And there are two ways to implement this:

Either everyone’s trial deck expires on, let say, Monday. So. If your trial deck is older than the most recent Monday, then you will have to repick.

Or, let say you pick your trial deck on Tuesday, so the deck expires on next Tuesday. Your deck expires on/after the seventh days.

It depends on how the system is set up.

It’s an interesting option since a lot of new players do select the starter cards at random or they later on discover a given choice was not such a good idea, but personally I’d prefer not to be forced into repicking my starter cards every week. I don’t really need them so I only grabbed them to get rid of the “remind me later” thingy and to complete my collection with the Origami Crane card I missed (though I didn’t have much use of it so far since I hardly use ninjas).

Also, we won’t need the weekly trial deck plus two, three weekly challenges. That will be an overkill. Both really solve the same complaints that a lot of players have, but they solve the problems in different ways So, once we get the weekly trial cards, we should just go back to one weekly challenge, (maybe plus a bi-weekly or monthly challenge.)

With the weekly trial cards, people should stop complaining that the drop rates are too low or that it’s impossible to win the cards they want. They will be able to use whatever card/deck they want, albeit only temporarily and for only one week at a time. Once they get to play with the cards they want, they’ll be happy (or they’ll find out the cards actually suck, and then they’ll want other cards.)

In addition, Kongregate won’t have to give away so many cards so quickly. With the current two, three challenges every week, everyone will be able to get every card in under six month. I’m sure all the people who love their “exclusive” cards don’t like Kongregate giving out so many cards so quickly.

In short, the weekly trial cards will substitute for the additional weekly challenges. After Kongregate implements the weekly trial cards, they will be able to stop giving out so many cards every week and go back to one challenge per week. That should lighten the workload of Kongregate programmers.

I’m sure for Kongregate programmers, it takes twice as much work to program two challenges a week instead of just one. Once they program and implement the weekly trial cards, it’s done. They won’t have to redo it every week.

It’s a win-win situation for everyone:

- Fewer complaints about being stuck with a bad deck and not being able to get (good) cards; everyone gets to try out different cards/decks every week – including the cards/decks he really wants (or he thinks he want.)

- More people willing to take risks and experiment with choosing cards, we’ll be seeing more varied and interesting decks and play styles.

- Less work for Kongregate once the new system is implemented – they won’t have to code for an additional challenge every week.

- Old players get to keep their cards (i.e., the permanent versions) more valuable because Kongregate is not giving away two, three cards like it’s Christmas every week.

Why would a player have to choose different starter cards each week? If a player finds a group of characters suitable to his style of play, why should he not be able to keep them?

A simple repick starter cards each week would be much better if it were implemented.

Why would a player have to choose different starter cards each week? If a player finds a group of characters suitable to his style of play, why should he not be able to keep them?

To give incentive for them to earn the permanent cards.

If they really like a particular card so much, (and I’m sure everyone will find a few cards that suit them the best,) then they will have to earn it to be able to use it every week.

In the long run, after experimenting with different cards/decks for a while, most people will find their primary/most favorite decks plus a few secondary favorite/back up decks. They will just cycle through different favorite trial cards, experimenting with new cards once every few weeks, while earning the permanent cards/decks that are their favorites.

Except there’s no possibility of earning a certain card in the game at this moment in time. A person could potentially play several hundred games and never get the card they want. Without this, your idea is horrible.

Except there’s no possibility of earning a certain card in the game at this moment in time. A person could potentially play several hundred games and never get the card they want.

With the current system, if you picked a bad starter deck, and you want certain cards after playing a while, you currently have ZERO chance of ever getting the deck you desire.

How many newbies picked the perfect starter deck?

Even if you picked a starter deck that you thought would be really good, you would probably change your mind later as you learn and become better (or keep losing because you were wrong about the deck.)

With the weekly trial card system, everyone will get a chance to play their favorite decks… for a week. Most everyone will have a FEW favorite decks, so they can cycle through them; and most everyone will want to earn at least one permanent favorite deck, and continue to experiment with new decks every week.

With the trial cards, there’s a possibility of “earning” a certain card—you just don’t get to keep the same card for week after week.

If you repick the same deck week after week, why will you want to try anything else? What will be your incentive to earn a permanent card or any permanent card?

You can just repick the same three trial cards again and again, and don’t even care about winning cards or playing challenges to get the permanent cards, and don’t even try anything else.

I love this idea! It also solves the “I won my starter as a challenge” problem.

Except there’s no possibility of earning a certain card in the game at this moment in time.

I actually have an idea to improve the card drop situation. My idea comes from an old strategy series, Heroes of Might and Magic (HoMM). In HoMM, each character (“hero”) has dozens of different abilities. Every time a hero level ups, a small menu pops up and randomly shows two abilities, and the hero can choose one to upgrade.

Here’s how the idea from HoMM can apply to Kongai:

Whenever a player wins a card, he should get two (or maybe three) choices. Let say two cards pop up, and he gets to pick one.

The choices are random, but the choices are also determined by what cards the player already has.

Here are the choices:

One card is always a random character that he doesn’t have, BUT the character go well with an item that he already has.

The other card is always a random item that he doesn’t have, BUT the item can work well with a character that he already has.

(Note: If he does not have cards from all colors, then either the random character will work with a gray card he has, or the random item will be gray—there’s a card-distribution reason for this.)

He gets to choose one.