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MMOs Are Ruining Kongregate... page 17

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Originally posted by adv0catus:

Blame the fanbase of those games that blindly rate 5/5, not raw or greg, it’s not their fault.

Well, in some cases that’s true. But like race just said there are cases where ratings do not matter. It boils down to a high fanbase, or a franchise that has been badged in the past. Other factors include the money grubbing MMOs that most badge hunters dislike, but many spend money on.
 
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Originally posted by Ericzander:
Originally posted by adv0catus:

Blame the fanbase of those games that blindly rate 5/5, not raw or greg, it’s not their fault.

Well, in some cases that’s true. But like race just said there are cases where ratings do not matter. It boils down to a high fanbase, or a franchise that has been badged in the past. Other factors include the money grubbing MMOs that most badge hunters dislike, but many spend money on.

Or, as has been said, outright foul play, whether by bribing for high ratings (Shadowland) or deleting low ones (Miscrits).

 
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Originally posted by TheAznSensation:

It certainly looks like you guys don’t want any mmore MMOs. And I certainly agree with you. The one MMO I played for badges, a while ago — Dream World, excessively tedious and mundane.
Kongregate should seek alternative ways of earning money.

Stop with your puns.

 
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I wonder.

When I first came to Kongregate, I liked the site because through its badge system which presumably rewarded highly rated games I could waste literally no time to find good games to play casually. Got an hour to waste? Go to Kong, call up one of the badges yet undone, find a good game most of time and an excellent time often enough to keep coming back for more.

I’m sure Greg and Emily are doing user tracking to figure out how much of new visitors to the site Kongregate is keeping for the long haul. If getting shoved Energy Bar Games into their faces via the featured games on the mainpage or the “spotlight” on every other game listing makes new players leave and not come back, then yes, MMOs would be ruining Kongregate – the MMO would then be a push to squeeze as much revenue as possible from a dwindling userbase.I can’t really tell because I’m not new to the site any more, and I’m pretty heavily invested in the meta-game (aka badge hunting) so I just ignore the main page as best as I can and look to “hot new games” for quick gems, but would I have stayed on at Kongregate if it had been pushing mindless MMO back then? Who knows, I might have registered at a site that gives me quality more consistently. (And I do recognize quality even in genres I don’t particularly like to play.)

Maybe we’re not the target demographic any longer. Maybe Flash etc. = casual gameplay = simplistic “core loops”, and we ought to move over to Steam and start playing “serious” free to play games. I love Kongregate (yep, still do) because it used to show that flash gaming doesn’t have to be mindless, that in a gaming experience of one night you can put as much enjoyment and depth (on that smaller scale) as the big games do for a week or longer; that with that, the good games are incredibly fast to pick up on, and that this allows me to play lots of games in the same time span that I would play fewer games more deeply without compromising on my enjoyment.

Now if Kongregate fails to show that to its new site visitors — if it shoves low-quality, low-enjoyment density games that take ages to complete in new visitors’ faces — then the site and the service it can render to gamers is diminished. Like I said, I don’t run the numbers, so I can’t really tell if that is happening now. But if I was in charge, either at gamestop or at Kongregate, I would make very sure that it isn’t.

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:

Blame the fanbase of those games that blindly rate 5/5, not raw or greg, it’s not their fault.

Greg and Raw have to put in a conscious effort to make a badge. If they didn’t play through the game to make sure it was a good badge, they shouldn’t have made the badge at all. If they did play through the game and all there was to it was a skinner box, and they still gave it a badge, it’s kinda on them.

 
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My opinion: I think FO is the best mmo on this site, you don’t need to pay money to get extra gameplay, only just to get some other currency, but you are able pay stuff with coins from the in game market to get that extra stuff. MMOs are made to be addicting and “cash makers”, they just get a lot more “cash” if they add something that you need to buy with real money. Simple and easy. Personally I don’t play much MMOs, I haven’t spent a cent on any actually in the whole universe of the internet, and don’t intend to(I have no money) but if I could it be spent on FO.

 
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Guys, stop being dumb.

MMOs dont get badged based on quality.

They get badged based on the developer buying ads on the site.

Why else would every single MMO to get badges have ads on the main page for months after it gets badges?

 
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um… as a developer, I can confirm that Kongregate runs ads for your game for free when you’re sponsored/badged/a new kred-enabled game.

It’s actually very generous and an extremely helpful feature. It’s one of the things that I think attracts developers here over other platforms.

edit: I also find it very funny that people think conspiracy theories are needed for MMOs to be highly-rated. They probably just have a lot of fans that are effectively addicted to them. Frankly I’m kind of surprised the “Pay money for anything? vote 1 don’t play move on” crowd doesn’t outweigh this more heavily.

 
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Originally posted by delosford:

edit: I also find it very funny that people think conspiracy theories are needed for MMOs to be highly-rated. They probably just have a lot of fans that are effectively addicted to them. Frankly I’m kind of surprised the “Pay money for anything? vote 1 don’t play move on” crowd doesn’t outweigh this more heavily.

No need for conspiracy theories, ZShadow has said point blank that PBBGs have the option of putting a trigger extremely early in the game no later than character creation. What this does is that the game rating is based only on people who reach this trigger, so it disqualified people who just rate it 1/5 and move on before the game loads. He did say this also eliminates them from contention for the weekly and monthly contests.

So the “vote 1 don’t play move on” crowd does actually carry significant weight, they just aren’t counted until a PBBG gets badges. Normally there’s a small rating drop when a game gets badges, but when a PBBG gets badges, the rating normally plummets.

I should note that I’m not in the “MMOs Are Ruining Kongregate” crowd, I just accept them as a necessary evil.

 
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That’s an option for ANY kongregate game that uses the stats api.

It’s also not that useful, and only stops people voting before the game loads. It explicitly states you are not allowed to put this after character creation or at any other point. My game can’t use it at all because it doesn’t actually load: it’s all generated HTML and you immediately see character creation.

 
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Originally posted by delosford:

That’s an option for ANY kongregate game that uses the stats api.

It’s also not that useful, and only stops people voting before the game loads. It explicitly states you are not allowed to put this after character creation or at any other point. My game can’t use it at all because it doesn’t actually load: it’s all generated HTML and you immediately see character creation.

Exactly, it’s not that useful, EXCEPT for PBBGs, for whom it is extremely and massively useful, since those are exactly the sort of game that draws people to rate 1/5 and close the game before it even loads.

 
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Originally posted by delosford:

That’s an option for ANY kongregate game that uses the stats api.

No its not, it’s only for MMOs. Check the docs.

 
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Originally posted by Fricknmaniac:
Originally posted by delosford:

That’s an option for ANY kongregate game that uses the stats api.

It’s also not that useful, and only stops people voting before the game loads. It explicitly states you are not allowed to put this after character creation or at any other point. My game can’t use it at all because it doesn’t actually load: it’s all generated HTML and you immediately see character creation.

Exactly, it’s not that useful, EXCEPT for PBBGs, for whom it is extremely and massively useful, since those are exactly the sort of game that draws people to rate 1/5 and close the game before it even loads.

Um…. my game is a PBBG and can’t leverage the functionality at all as my game has no loading screen. The only games this would be useful for is ones where it’s not obvious it’s an MMO before you click it, and it becomes obvious when you see the loading screen (which of course has to be long enough to actually let people rate/close in that window). This is a pretty tiny subset of games. And any dedicated downvoter could easily bypass this by just waiting for a load.

 
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Originally posted by saybox:
Originally posted by delosford:

That’s an option for ANY kongregate game that uses the stats api.

No its not, it’s only for MMOs. Check the docs.

You just have a fetish for being wrong, don’t you?

http://developers.kongregate.com/docs/kongregate-apis/stats

For social/MMO games we recommend submitting a stat to us called “initialized” or “loaded” that sends a “1” each time the game loads successfully.
Let us know if you have set up a statistic like this so we can set it up as a filter. This service is currently only available for virtual-goods-enabled games.

Looks like you didn’t read before posting again. Quite a bad habit. I guess I was partially incorrect that it’s not available to ALL games, but all kreds-enabled games. Not really a major difference for the purposes of this conversation. You don’t have to be an MMO to get kreds-approved.

 
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Originally posted by delosford:
I guess I was partially incorrect that it’s not available to ALL games, but all kreds-enabled games. Not really a major difference for the purposes of this conversation.

Pretty major difference – the stats API is available to all games, not just Kred enabled ones. However, only the Kred ones can opt out of the early 1 star voting, as you pointed out.

 
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Originally posted by saybox:
Originally posted by delosford:
I guess I was partially incorrect that it’s not available to ALL games, but all kreds-enabled games. Not really a major difference for the purposes of this conversation.

Pretty major difference – the stats API is available to all games, not just Kred enabled ones. However, only the Kred ones can opt out of the early 1 star voting, as you pointed out.

Not a huge difference at all. Any game can become kreds-enabled without being an MMO by meeting a couple basic requirements outlined in the virtual goods API help. Thus your claim that it’s only available to MMOs is utterly wrong making your trolling stalker post completely pointless. I’d appreciate it if you stopped stalking my profile to post shit. I already muted you a while ago, but I guess that doesn’t stop me from seeing your forum posts.

 
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Originally posted by delosford:

Not a huge difference at all. Any game can become kreds-enabled without being an MMO by meeting a couple basic requirements outlined in the virtual goods API help. Thus your claim that it’s only available to MMOs is utterly wrong making your trolling stalker post completely pointless. I’d appreciate it if you stopped stalking my profile to post shit. I already muted you a while ago, but I guess that doesn’t stop me from seeing your forum posts.

Yeah, it’s a big difference. you seem to be under the impression that any game using the stats API can optout of 1 star voting, which isn’t true. Here’s what you said:

Originally posted by delosford:

That’s an option for ANY kongregate game that uses the stats api.

This isn’t the case. It’s not an option for games usin the stats API, any game can use that, even if it doesn’t use Kreds or doesn’t get approved for Kred purchases.

Since the majority of games on Kong are singleplayer, and don’t use Kreds, the option to opt out isn’t available to them.

 
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And here’s what you said:

No its not, it’s only for MMOs. Check the docs.

You were wrong. Completely, inexorably wrong in every way. And you refuse to admit it. You are stalking my profile to argue with me and post incorrect information. You are completely pathetic. Stop doing it or I’m going to report you.

I already admitted I was slightly incorrect, so you’re a bit late there, but the fact of the matter is that ANY game CAN use Kreds. It might not make any sense, but any game that CAN implement the stats API CAN implement virtual goods and use this feature. Therefore: ANY game can use initialized if it chooses to comply with Kongregate’s requirements. Therefore what I said was merely slightly inaccurate. What you said was completely fucking wrong, and you still can’t even admit it or apologize for posting dumb stalkery bullshit. Sadsack little child.

 
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You were both wrong.

[Edit: delosford, you were too vague and saybox was too specific.]

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:

You were both wrong.

No, I stated something slightly inaccurate but still technically logically true. I also immediately admitted it and corrected myself. Big difference.

 
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Originally posted by delosford:

And here’s what you said:

No its not, it’s only for MMOs. Check the docs.

You were wrong. Completely, inexorably wrong in every way. And you refuse to admit it. You are stalking my profile to argue with me and post incorrect information. You are completely pathetic. Stop doing it or I’m going to report you.

I already admitted I was slightly incorrect, so you’re a bit late there, but the fact of the matter is that ANY game CAN use Kreds. It might not make any sense, but any game that CAN implement the stats API CAN implement virtual goods and use this feature. Therefore: ANY game can use initialized if it chooses to comply with Kongregate’s requirements. Therefore what I said was merely slightly inaccurate. What you said was completely fucking wrong, and you still can’t even admit it or apologize for posting dumb stalkery bullshit. Sadsack little child.

Yeah, I accepted that Kreds games can use it as well once you pointed that out. That’s not a big issue for me. It certainly doesn’t warrant your unbridled rage – and it doesn’t change the fact that games using the stats API aren’t eligible for the change unless they start selling Kred goods. Like Advocatus said, we were both wrong on different points of the topic.

 
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Yeah, I accepted that Kreds games can use it as well once you pointed that out.

You did? Because I’m pretty sure you didn’t. Here’s a quote of every one of your posts since I pointed that out, and all you did was try to change the subject and make a big deal out of something that really had nothing to do with what you claimed. You never admitted fault or apologized.

Pretty major difference – the stats API is available to all games, not just Kred enabled ones. However, only the Kred ones can opt out of the early 1 star voting, as you pointed out.
Yeah, it’s a big difference. you seem to be under the impression that any game using the stats API can optout of 1 star voting, which isn’t true. Here’s what you said:
This isn’t the case. It’s not an option for games usin the stats API, any game can use that, even if it doesn’t use Kreds or doesn’t get approved for Kred purchases.

Since the majority of games on Kong are singleplayer, and don’t use Kreds, the option to opt out isn’t available to them.
 
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Well, I don’t see you apologizing anywhere either, and the closest you came to “admitting fault” was “I made a technical inaccuracy” LOL.

So, okay, I made a technical inaccuracy too ;) I just don’t feel the need to rage and swear and insult people over it xD

If you’d like, I’ll reword my original post to this: “No its not, it’s only for Kreds-enabled games, not stats-enabled ones. Check the docs”.

Will that quell your RAGE xD

 
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Originally posted by saybox:

Well, I don’t see you apologizing anywhere either, and the closest you came to “admitting fault” was “I made a technical inaccuracy” LOL.

So, okay, I made a technical inaccuracy too ;) I just don’t feel the need to rage and swear and insult people over it xD

If you’d like, I’ll reword my original post to this: “No its not, it’s only for Kreds-enabled games, not stats-enabled ones. Check the docs”.

Will that quell your RAGE xD

So the closest I came to admitting fault was admitting fault? Wow, what a concept.

You didn’t make a technical inaccuracy. You stated something completely wrong. You also stalked my profile and called me out to do it. What exactly do I have to apologize for? You’re the only one being a stalkery inaccurate asshole that’s ruining threads over a personal problem.

 
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Originally posted by delosford:
Originally posted by adv0catus:

You were both wrong.

No, I stated something slightly inaccurate but still technically logically true. I also immediately admitted it and corrected myself. Big difference.

You can’t accept being wrong, can you? You admitted it yourself, you were inaccurate. You said all games with stats API can manipulate ratings when in reality only games with virtual goods can. You weren’t 100% accurate so therefore you were wrong.

This applies to this and that other thread. Also, inb4r@igefe$t. /done