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MMOs Are Ruining Kongregate... page 19

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It changed my view on MMOs thought, I never thought of them as a hobby before. In that context, it makes a lot more sense. No one would (seriously) bat an eye if someone dropped $5k a year into fishing gear, skating equipment or a model train set. MMOs are no different, just that society hasn’t caught up with the mentality yet. Just like with K+ or any other intangible purchase, people don’t understand it and the value it has to the purchaser.

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:

…just that society hasn’t caught up with the mentality yet. Just like with K+ or any other intangible purchase, people don’t understand it and the value it has to the purchaser.

Mhm, the relation to energy buys and paying for lessons was pretty good.

 
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This thread needs to die already.

 
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I’d prefer MMOs dying first.

 
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Bobby is attacking the 1st amendment. Quick, shoot him with the 2nd amendment!

 
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Originally posted by Moshdef:

Bobby is attacking the 1st amendment. Quick, shoot him with the 2nd amendment!

Kong doesn’t have freedom of speech.

 
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I support more MMOs on the front page. I support more MMOs getting badged. I support more MMOs getting lengthy badges. I support Kongregate giving them much more attention in general because I feel like they neglect them a bit.

 
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Old MMO’s were cool, like Dream World, Fantasy Online, Dragon’s Call… where you didn’t need to pay to win instantly.

True fact that most of them are money grabbers, but if you want to pay, you simply pay. But if not, nobody forces you to pay.

 
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Originally posted by Moshdef:

Bobby is attacking the 1st amendment. Quick, shoot him with the 2nd amendment!

This made me laugh way more than it should have. xD

Originally posted by Glackus:

Old MMO’s were cool, like Dream World, Fantasy Online, Dragon’s Call… where you didn’t need to pay to win instantly.

True fact that most of them are money grabbers, but if you want to pay, you simply pay. But if not, nobody forces you to pay.

Dream World is still cool!

 
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There are definitely great MMOs on Kongregate, anybody denying that is just being bitter in my opinion. The really sad thing about some of the games, Dream World and Tyrant included, is that I think they would be amazing games if they didn’t have such restrictive and arguably exploitative energy systems. Realm of the Mad God always immediately comes to mind when I try to think of MMOs that have amazing gameplay, are unique, are not pay-2-win at all, and have a great developer who respects his players.

I am currently drawing a blank for a second MMO like that, but I’m sure it exists. I rated RotMG 5/5 and I really believe it deserves it! I don’t think I’ve ever rated another MMO 5/5…

I think the case being made is against cloned games with the same tired old energy systems and pay-2-play (while hardly really doing anything but time management) style. The same case can be made for some non-MMO games, so I think a more accurate title for the thread would be something like: Exploitative Cookie Cutter Games Are Making Kongregate Slightly Less Awesome.

The kind of criticism in this thread shouldn’t, and I’m sure doesn’t, scare MMO developers away. I think this will help give us more MMOs in the near future that are really great games regardless of genre.

Just Say No To Pay-2-Play Clones. You Can Make A Difference.

 
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Pay-to-play seems to be a trend in recent MMOs. I blame Facebook/Zynga.

 
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Originally posted by eProdigy:

Pay-to-play seems to be a trend in recent MMOs. I blame Facebook/Zynga.

I blame the people that buy into the Exploitative Cookie Cutter Games. facebook/Zynga just showed a mob of people willing to buy into them.

 
This post has been removed by an administrator or moderator
 
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Originally posted by bobby71983:

I support more MMOs on the front page. I support more MMOs getting badged. I support more MMOs getting lengthy badges. I support Kongregate giving them much more attention in general because I feel like they neglect them a bit.

You sir, are a troll. Poor one TBH.

Another question — how Esgrima 2 got 3.86 while Shapik: the quest only 3.69?
Does Kong boost rating of MMO cash grabbers?

 
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Ratings has already been thoroughly (several pages) discussed in this thread.

 
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I love playing most of the mmo’s. some are meh, while others are awesome. getting rid of them would ruin the fun of kongregate

 
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Originally posted by Moonfrost:
Originally posted by bobby71983:

I support more MMOs on the front page. I support more MMOs getting badged. I support more MMOs getting lengthy badges. I support Kongregate giving them much more attention in general because I feel like they neglect them a bit.

You sir, are a troll. Poor one TBH.

Another question — how Esgrima 2 got 3.86 while Shapik: the quest only 3.69?
Does Kong boost rating of MMO cash grabbers?

I assure you, what I said is 100% what I want to see.

 
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You hopefully will be seeing a bit less of MMOs as single player games get more popular here in the next year. With the addition of the view count change (if a player views a game again within 5 minutes of loading the page, the view is not counted) hopefully the top played list will slowly filter out.

 
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Originally posted by UnknownGuardian:

(if a player views a game again within 5 minutes of loading the page, the view is not counted)

Awesome. I always felt like I was adding too many plays to a game if I had to reload to get it to work, and have witnessed a dev encouraging players to slam the refresh to reach a playcount milestone with a promise of in game rewards if it was reached by a certain deadline.

 
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Originally posted by IceWeaselX:
[…]and have witnessed a dev encouraging players to slam the refresh to reach a playcount milestone with a promise of in game rewards if it was reached by a certain deadline.

That developer needs to be reported for fraud.

 
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It’s up to admins to deal with that. Devs rarely keep it a secret as to their intentions. The game is designed around getting high play counts. If admins wanted to do something, why have they not done something?

Also, rhetorical question.

 
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They can only be in so many places at once. That’s why there’s the report abuse button on profiles, you can flag comments, etc. It’s unrealistic to expect the administration to magically “know” when a developer is engaging in ratings fraud.

 
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Originally posted by Alisiiea:

I don’t really blame anybody for having an MMO on their site, especially not Kongregate. Kongregate was created for the purpose of everyone being able to play a game they will enjoy, and discover new games and meet new people. I think the reason they allow MMO’s is so everyone can have their needs met, I personally have no feelings whatsoever about MMOs, but I think the reason they’re promoting them so heavily is because it’s what people are into nowadays..

The creators of these games just want everyone to have fun playing their game, and they think that if somebody doesn’t like it, they don’t have to play it. It’s just that type of thing where certain people like MMOs, and certain don’t.

Kongregate would never intentionally promote a game you wouldn’t like so heavily, but a game type the general population is in to. I don’t see any problem with it other than to expand people’s horizons, and besides, it’s not like you can’t play other games on Kongregate.

Yeah, sure. Kong is promoting MMOs, including the crappiest ones, because they expect we have fun, and surely not because they want us to pay real money to play / win. Same about devs, they want everyone have fun playing their games, and in fact, I can just imagine how fun is to everyone having gameplay limited by something like an energy system. [/sarcasm]

Originally posted by adv0catus:

I think people need to take a look at this video to better understand MMOs and the players. It changed my perception, it might change yours as well.

Can someone post a version of the video with legend? I can read and type in English, but Im not really good about hearing.

Originally posted by bobby71983:

This thread needs to die already.

Its ridiculous how you always ask people to stop posting here everytime the thread gets a bump. I assure you no one will stop posting because you asked. Maybe you should create your MMOs lovers thread.

About the recent MMOs, Vorp! was a happy surprise to me. Game is interesting, skills are more important than purchase-able items, and there is no energy system to limit how much I want to play. Games like this one could surely receive badges, as RotMG and Elements the Game. On the other hand, Galaxy Online was awfully boring and looks even unfinished. Fights, for example, take a loooooong (ZzZzZzZzZ) time.Thanks God it had just a medium badge. There was Wartune, which was also boring (fights were very VERY repetitive) and had a VIP feature that could easily create a huge gap between premium players and non-premium. Legacy of a Thousand Suns has no challenge involved (at least in normal difficulty), but the energy system was there to force me to play for like 5 days (instead of 2 hours) for getting a medium badge. Seriuosly, you receive ridiculously low damage while “fighting” (it means, clicking stupid button), if there wasnt an energy system, could finish the medium (and never return) in a couple of hours. And the worst badges: the ones added to Clash of the Dragons. C’mon, how much 5thplanetgames paid to Kong to have these badges added? Just hope its cartoonish clone dont get a hard badge after 1 year.

Among these badges, I would add Vorp! ones and MAYBE Wartune. The others were just throwing at us games that arent worthy, but they hope we spend some bucks on them. I guess they could advertise for these games, but badges werent necessary. Remember, at least 30% of the revenue comes from ads. Badgehunters contribute to Kong loading tons of ads and should be respected not having sucky games throwed at their faces all the time.

 
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The video is too long to transcribe. The basic concepts covered, from memory:

  • Emily talked about how she’s invested a lot of money into figure skating. She compares it to MMOs. The social aspect of it, the competitions/meets/fellow skaters, the “energy system” which is the skating lessons and the equipment expenses.
  • Games are hobbies and a small portion of players are willing to spend significant amounts of money on a game, like they would a traditional hobby. That small paying user base makes up a significant majority portion of the game’s revenue.
  • The more that someone plays a game, the more likely they are to spend money.
  • She advised developers to not shove the premium purchases down the players throat at first. People are very value conscious at first and are more hesitant to pay. As well, like shopping at a new store, the first experience is make or break. Focus on the gaming experience first and the paying players will come later.

She also said that Kongregate had 15 million unique visitors in September and the revenue split between MMOs and advertising is 70% for MMOs and 30% for advertising. I can’t think of anything else significant, or statistics, off the top of my head.

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:

It changed my view on MMOs thought, I never thought of them as a hobby before. In that context, it makes a lot more sense. No one would (seriously) bat an eye if someone dropped $5k a year into fishing gear, skating equipment or a model train set. MMOs are no different, just that society hasn’t caught up with the mentality yet. Just like with K+ or any other intangible purchase, people don’t understand it and the value it has to the purchaser.

What you’re missing (and that was a good video, thanks for the link) is that sports shops don’t throw skating gear in front of your face and then limit how you can use it. The cash-grab MMOs (which is what people are objecting to if you analyze underneath the surface) do things like add energy systems that limit the player from how they can play the game. What if Emily lived near a public park that froze over for the winter… and it was available to skate on all day long… but someone told her she can only skate for 30 minutes… and then she has to wait two hours before she can skate again for another 30 minutes. You’d think that was pretty crap, right?

The video was pretty good – slightly reminiscent of the Gamification video I posted some time back. It didn’t really say too much beyond what Zynga has already found out… a very small % of players will spend a very high % of dollars. Therefore, everything the developer builds is built in order to get money from this very tiny %. This means the very high % of players who play the game but won’t spend money on it are being subjected to a game design which is not targeted at them (sarcastic yay!).

Looking at it even further, Kong falls into the trap by providing an audience. They are enabling developers of these games to continue to make cookie cutter games and make profit. Supporting these games, is in essence, akin to supporting Zynga and FarmVille. Is that what we really want? Society is already beyond this mentality… and I hope you’re not starting to drink the kool-aid.

The only possible upside is that one of these MMO cash-grab developers might accidentally make a good game at some point. Something that doesn’t just appeal to ‘hobbyists’ (which could be viewed as ~1% of the gaming population… or suckers who also happen to have money).

Mhm, the relation to energy buys and paying for lessons was pretty good.

What? How?

ps: Bobby is our 1%