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MMOs Are Ruining Kongregate... page 20

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This for me really depends on what MMO it is.

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:

The video is too long to transcribe. The basic concepts covered, from memory:

  • Emily talked about how she’s invested a lot of money into figure skating. She compares it to MMOs. The social aspect of it, the competitions/meets/fellow skaters, the “energy system” which is the skating lessons and the equipment expenses.
  • Games are hobbies and a small portion of players are willing to spend significant amounts of money on a game, like they would a traditional hobby. That small paying user base makes up a significant majority portion of the game’s revenue.
  • The more that someone plays a game, the more likely they are to spend money.
  • She advised developers to not shove the premium purchases down the players throat at first. People are very value conscious at first and are more hesitant to pay. As well, like shopping at a new store, the first experience is make or break. Focus on the gaming experience first and the paying players will come later.

She also said that Kongregate had 15 million unique visitors in September and the revenue split between MMOs and advertising is 70% for MMOs and 30% for advertising. I can’t think of anything else significant, or statistics, off the top of my head.

I understand MMOs are hobbies perfectly. If you go to my profile, the “website” there is my favourite MMO. Its a soccer manager game, but I dont like it just because the theme. Its simple, it doesnt require to be on 24/7 and although there are premium features, these are just cosmetic, so I wont have my team (city / fleet / army / whatever) pwned by someone that just spent money. I started to play that game February 2008, so, 5 years ago. AND, Im premium, I spend my real money in this game because I 1) like the features (although they are cosmetic) 2) approve the way the game is developed and want to contribute 3) there is an option to pay without using a credit card (interest rate in Brazil is the highest in the world). I already have my premium bought for next 2 years. Its my hobby.

I can understand some people will like Legacy of a Thousand Suns or Berserk Cataclysm or Ninja Warz for reasons I will never know. I also understand these games generate profit for Kong, and Kong wants ad them. But are these games good enough to be throwed at the common gamer face, and again and again and again? Kong is adding badges to games that dont have a minimum quality, or even dont have gameplay, just thinking in the money that 1% will spend.

Of course there are good MMOs, like Vorp!, that deserve badges, and there are games of other types that dont deserve badges (what was that Boomshine thing?). But promoting (badges included) all these crappy cashgrabs just because of money is ruining my other hobby: badge hunting, which I started in 2009. Why? Because that 1% which spends a lot of money in a game for 2 months and quit is more important than the others that come almost everyday for 4 years and loads tons of ads. Really?

Also some developers arent considering the advice. They are showing their premium content in every click. Just look at Backyard Monsters.

 
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Unfortunately, your opinions as to what constitutes a “good” MMO are not what Kongregate uses to judge a “good” MMO—Kongregate goes by the game’s rating.

However, as discussed many times, both in this thread and others, that’s not the best metric to use.

 
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@ anyone who responded to me.

I’ll post in any thread I feel like posting in, thanks :P

If you think you will only get people who support your opinion in a thread, then just lol.

I support the genre, you do not support it. Your opinion has no more or less value than mine does.

 
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Originally posted by VforVendetta:

More like MMOs are running Kongregate!
A lot of people enjoy playing them, including myself, from time to time.
If you don’t like them, don’t play them. x)

Agreed.

 
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promoting (badges included) all these crappy cashgrabs just because of money is ruining my other hobby: badge hunting, which I started in 2009. Why? Because that 1% which spends a lot of money in a game for 2 months and quit is more important than the others that come almost everyday for 4 years and loads tons of ads. Really?

I think this sums it up really well.

We understand Kong is a business and needs to make money. Spock said it best… the needs of the many, are greater than the needs of the few. Therein lies the conflict. Some businesses tend to put the needs of the few ahead of the many. Emily herself said in her video that she was uncomfortable with some people spending thousands and thousands of $ at first. I know she learned to equate it to a hobby, and if that makes her feel good, then great… but I think her first natural reaction is the more appropriate one.

That said, I haven’t been upset by (or felt Kong has pushed) the MMO Cash-grab vs Regular game balance as of late, so… good job, I think… for now. But when that balance tips towards MMOs, it’s natural that the 99% who don’t want games to slowroll the players’ bankrolls (to steal a term from poker) – and that’s pretty much what’s being encouraged here – will feel slighted that kong doesn’t have their best interests in mind (and they don’t).

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:
Originally posted by IceWeaselX:
[…]and have witnessed a dev encouraging players to slam the refresh to reach a playcount milestone with a promise of in game rewards if it was reached by a certain deadline.

That developer needs to be reported for fraud.

Cough anti idle cough
Well at least he doesn’t seem to be milking it though

 
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Tukkun doesn’t do that. Refreshing multiple times gives zero in-game benefit.

 
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Originally posted by bobby71983:

@ anyone who responded to me.

I’ll post in any thread I feel like posting in, thanks :P

Sure, like other people. So just stop acting like an idiot by saying people to let the thread die or something alike. They wont. Create an MMOs lovers thread and I will go there to say I dont support MMOs everytime someone posts. Fine, huh?

Seriously, if you have an opinion to post, its ok. If you dont, you just looks stupid / arrogant.

Originally posted by racefan12:

Unfortunately, your opinions as to what constitutes a “good” MMO are not what Kongregate uses to judge a “good” MMO—Kongregate goes by the game’s rating.

Well, after those signs of ratings manipulation I have heard about, Im not entirely convinced. “Good” MMO to Kongregate: anything people will spend real money on. On the other hand: I weekly receive a Kong e-mail in my inbox, and in that e-mail I see a list of “top new games this week”. For some reason, usually there is no Multiplayer game there, but lots of other possibly fun games. But why, oh why, most of these never receive badges? I guess some dont have the API implemented, etc, but usually just a few sequels receive badges and others are forgotten forever. Ratings? Kong looks for profit. Only.

Originally posted by wattro:

That said, I haven’t been upset by (or felt Kong has pushed) the MMO Cash-grab vs Regular game balance as of late, so… good job, I think… for now. But when that balance tips towards MMOs, it’s natural that the 99% who don’t want games to slowroll the players’ bankrolls (to steal a term from poker) – and that’s pretty much what’s being encouraged here – will feel slighted that kong doesn’t have their best interests in mind (and they don’t).

Yes, Im upset. The quantity is even ok (mostly because of apocalipse event, I suppose), but about quality… I see it this way:
- quality needed for a regular game to be badge: very very high, unless its a sequel (in fact, being a sequel of Papa’s, Epic War, Bloons TD – ooops, now they have premium content – is almost an insta-badge).
- quality needed for a MMO / freemium game to be badged: average, and even gameplay isnt a requisite.

Originally posted by bjjdude:
Originally posted by adv0catus:
Originally posted by IceWeaselX:
[…]and have witnessed a dev encouraging players to slam the refresh to reach a playcount milestone with a promise of in game rewards if it was reached by a certain deadline.

That developer needs to be reported for fraud.

Cough anti idle cough
Well at least he doesn’t seem to be milking it though

Curiously, this also remembers me of Backyard Monsters. You go to the bathroom, or to the kitchen get some water, anything. If you are afk for 10 minutes, the game will reload the entire page, of course counting it as new play. I doubt Kong staff doesnt know it. I guess they just dont care.

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:

Tukkun doesn’t do that. Refreshing multiple times gives zero in-game benefit.

What about the achv that’s named cronic refresher for playing the game 50 times?

 
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Originally posted by bjjdude:
Originally posted by adv0catus:

Tukkun doesn’t do that. Refreshing multiple times gives zero in-game benefit.

What about the achv that’s named cronic refresher for playing the game 50 times?

It provides no in-game benefit, as I said.

 
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While we’re talking about bad cash grabbers that get badges undeservedly, this website’s turning to gambling games now? I swear, kongregate is sinking lower and lower as time goes on.

And before anyone says anything about “you don’t have to play it” or whatever, Kong put them on the front page. They chose to put them on the front page.

And on top of that, there’s anti idle and ninja warz on the front page as well. At least anti-idle tries to make fun of it’s use of repetitive feedback loops, even if it does nothing to alleviate the problem.

 
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Do you mean the contest? If so, loosen up.

 
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No thanks Marv. This thread is appropriate for MMO lovers, haters, and anyone indifferent to it(that means everyone, by the way). Or are you scared of a contrary opinion?

Yes, this thread should die. We have all long since brought anything new to this discussion. We are all just repeating yourselves now. Like any thread, when there is nothing left to talk about, it should be locked.

 
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Originally posted by bobby71983:

No thanks Marv. This thread is appropriate for MMO lovers, haters, and anyone indifferent to it(that means everyone, by the way). Or are you scared of a contrary opinion?

Yes, this thread should die. We have all long since brought anything new to this discussion. We are all just repeating yourselves now. Like any thread, when there is nothing left to talk about, it should be locked.

ORLY? Am I the one scared of a contrary opinion? Let me check…

Originally posted by bobby71983:

if you dont like them, dont play them. every genre has its good and bad points and it just amuses me when people single out mmo’s. give it up already, you arent getting rid of them.

Originally posted by bobby71983:

well the topic of mmos “ruining” kong is just people who dont like a genre for whatever reason, so since there isnt much to discuss about that, it has been derailed.

Originally posted by bobby71983:

This whole thread has made a bigger deal of the issue than it deserved. It was never an issue to begin with.

Originally posted by bobby71983:

This thread needs to die already.

Looks like you were the one trying to kill a discussion even before it starts. First and second quotes are from page 1. Scared of a contrary opinion?

By the way, Im not saying MMOs lovers shouldnt post here (can you provide any quotes?). We have other MMOs lovers here, and I never asked them for stop posting. In fact, I showed respect for their opinions, and so they did. My problem is with you only, and not about real opinions, but about trying to kill the discussion. Whats this? Censorship?

Oh, but you can play very well as victim, huh? You can say “I’ll post in any thread I feel like posting in”, so whats the problem if people want to post here and keep the discussion going? You can say “Your opinion has no more or less value than mine does”, so what if people want the thread alive? You ask for respect, but you dont show a minimal respect for other people opinions.

Even if nothing new is brought to discussion recently (which I disagree), this doesnt mean “there is nothing left to talk”. Or can you be sure that someone that isnt even registered in Kong cant bring any new point? And even in this case, people have the right to show their opinion to agree or disagree which something already discussed. What to say for you? The discussion shouldnt have started, heh, and who is scared?

When I said to you to create your own thread:
1st, it was to keep your “censorship” disrespectful comments away. Well, looks like you cant get the discussion anymore. Stop trolling here and be happy.
2nd, when I said I would play the troll there, it was to force you to an imagination exercise: think about yourself in a discussion that is relevant to you and a troll saying “Let the discussion die”, “There is nothing worthy saying”, “Give up already”. I can suppose you wouldnt like (censorship is good for other people, but not for you, right?), but of course you didnt understand it. Ok, now Im aware I shouldnt expect anything smart from you.

That said, this thread will continue, live with that. Its much worse to us live with MMOs anyway. If I think you post something offensive to our right to continue it, I will just report you.

 
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Originally posted by Marvaddin:
… stuff …

let bobby post as he pleases :) it’s not like he’s contributing much other than ranting that people have a different opinion than he does. if he doesn’t like the thread so much, he could simply not post in it or read it.

i do hope this thread is serving its purpose, and i do think kong needs to be aware & considerate of the risks as they approach, adopt, and support facebook- & zinga-like practices either within the site or with the games within the site.

 
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deleted because I was flaming, I shall ignore this thread from now on.

 
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Originally posted by bobby71983:

No thanks Marv. This thread is appropriate for MMO lovers, haters, and anyone indifferent to it(that means everyone, by the way). Or are you scared of a contrary opinion?

Yes, this thread should die. We have all long since brought anything new to this discussion. We are all just repeating yourselves now. Like any thread, when there is nothing left to talk about, it should be locked.

This thread shouldn’t die. It has not fulfilled it’s purpose yet, bad games are still getting achievements and front-page space solely because they are MMOs. Until this issue is put to rest entirely through either a compromise or those of us who don’t appreciate having sub-par games repeatedly advertised to us leaving kongregate, locking this thread is shutting down a conversation that needs to happen.