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MMOs Are Ruining Kongregate... page 8

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Yet single-player indie games get no such love.

Race The Sun.

 
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Originally posted by braves055:

It’s hard to believe that when it seems that there are ads for the mmo’s all over the homepage, and they seem to get added attention when they “add expansions” or “update” their game and it automatically gets a spot on the featured games section until another mmo gets an update. Yet single-player indie games get no such love.

Originally posted by Kongregate:
Since we want to make sure your game gets a chance to take off, joining the Kongregate kreds payments program will include some initial promotion to help get players into the game. We will run spotlight ads on the site (a minimum of 1 million impressions free of charge).

In some cases, if we think we can really take your game big with heavy promotion, we may offer you the option to switch over to our Partner Program after launch (…) receiving regular and larger promotions and advertising. They operate on a 50% – 50% revenue split and in exchange get substantial guaranteed promotion both from Kongregate and GameStop.

They pay Kong to advertise them. The featured games and similar sections are technically places for ads.

That said, what Zshadow posted stands true; there are thousands of other games out there and not all MMOs are money whoring craps.
I don’t think MMOs are ruining Kongregate, yet I feel that Kong staff is leaving the community behind, which results in tons of threads like this, because the general impression is that now Kong is all about crappy MMOs. Maybe it would change if improvements that benefit the community and features which only benefit Kongregate and its income were more balanced.

 
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Of corpse, there are thousands of non-MMOs in Kongregate. But when we talk about ruining Kongregate, Im talking about ruining the badge hunting experience. In fact, I consider the badges one of the most important things in this site. People tend to play games just because they are badged. Think about a ridiculous badged game, for example, Dog Eat Dog. That “game” has a rating of 2.87, and has been played over 279k times. How many good games you know that have higher ratings, never got badges, and were played less than 50k times?

Sure, there are also casual players, that come to Kong twice in a year. But the badge hunters are also a great profit source to the site. How many ads my browse probably loaded in 3 years of badge hunting?

There are still thousands good single player games I could enjoy. But badge hunting is becoming boring. And this is, in my case, what brought me here again, and again, and again. Before starting my personal challenge of having more badges, I used to play in Armor Games site. And could probably move again, if this MMO flood continues. In fact, I guess Kong will lose a big portion of its most loyal members, which also generate profit.

What Im saying is, MMOs are profitable, but promoting (including with badges) every crappy MMO will also have a negative effect on the community. At other hand, looks like greg and raw are just lazy (maybe they are too busy figuring out reasonable badges for the MMOs, no? – thanks God, no more badges, even the hard ones, like those of Sacred Seasons) about adding badges to single player games. With a few exceptions, just sequels are receiving badges.

Shouldnt we find a middle term? More single games being badged, and just the better MMOs? Others can be promoted by weekly challenge, etc.

(Lol, I imagine a new guy coming to Kongregate 1st time. “Wow, free weekly item in a challenge.” – plays Cargo Bridge 2 (curiously, a sequel). “Now lets see what I got in my Mistery Box… what? An offer to buy in game items for real money?!?! Argh, these challenges suck. Hmmmm, lets see what more we got in these featured games. Hmmm, multiplayer card game, another multiplayer card game, hm, another one, oh f*ck. Hmmmm, this has balloons and monkeys, maybe can be interesting. Hmmm, lets see… arghhh! Premium content! Run to the hills!”)

 
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The thing about the badges is that it’s not just a meta bragging rights thing. Like, I’m a pretty high level and I stopped giving a crap about compulsively getting all the badges a pretty long time ago. I’ll usually outright ignore tower defense because I’m awful enough at it to not really have fun, some of the games are too poorly optimized for my laptop to play without falling asleep waiting for my turn (anything by undefined) and so on.

The thing is, more than just an arbitrary reward, the offering of an arbitrary reward for playing the game is advertising — more powerful advertising than the feature box because it tends to a) update faster and b) throw a gauntlet. It used to be a way for the site to say “hey guys, we challenge you to play this awesome game you might not have seen otherwise!” but now it just feels like “hey guys, we want you to buy stuff from this crappy CCG you were trying your best to ignore!”, and it feels that way at the expense of the previous.

By the way, speaking of the feature box…

Berserk (CCG)
Cargo Bridge 2 (weekly challenge for MMO reward)
Time World (MMO)
Race the Sun
Card Monsters (CCG)
Pheus and Mor
Kingdoms (CCG)
Bloons TD 5 (premium)

That’s 6/8 spaces in the feature box that are in some way whoring MMOs or other paid content. Really, guys?

 
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I’ve said it like 5 times… kong just needs to make sure there are 40+ badges a month instead of 30. the # of MMO badges per month are fine, but don’t neglect badging strong single player games.

 
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Originally posted by wattro:

I’ve said it like 5 times… kong just needs to make sure there are 40+ badges a month instead of 30. the # of MMO badges per month are fine, but don’t neglect badging strong single player games.

oh, and if you are going to push MMOs/cash-grabbers, at least… AT LEAST push good ones and not shit ones.

 
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To me, this isn’t about badges. It’s an awful trend in flash games and online games as a whole.

Why make a good game when you can make some generic by the numbers MMO and target the big spender crowd? Why look for the praise of many and the donations of a few when you can vice grip the cash out of anyone with enough capital to even attempt to play your game?

I have no problem donating to a game I like. I also don’t mind paying up front to buy a game. However, a game that is specifically designed to manipulate you into paying infuriates me. Maybe you can make a business out of creating games, but you should not design a game as a business.

 
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Originally posted by Zshadow:

There are a lot of crappy MMO games out there, I won’t lie. Some of them give others a bad name being cookie-cutter clones only out to make a quick buck. There are a good handful of games, of which we try to bring to this site, that are fun though and have a pretty significant fanbase. Nothing requires users to play these games though, nor do we require that users spend money – the option is there if you want to, but we strive to find games that can be played (and badges earned) without spending a single penny. I used to feel distaste towards them, until I tried a few out of curiousity, and realized they can be a bit grindy, but a lot of the ones with respectful developers are pretty addicting.

I do understand many of your concerns though, and that it seems like we are pushing these games because we’re money grubbing fascists who want to sit on golden toilet seats. The truth is, this game group that makes a very small percentage of our game base (probably 1%?) accounts for a lot of the revenue that keeps our site running and allows us to pay developers, pay employees, sponsor contests for you guys, advertising, and make the site more appealing for other developers.

This doesn’t mean we’re going to ride on the coat tails of MMOs though. This website has and always will be about providing the best online flash games to our users. From small-time independent developers, to big companies, the range of games on this website is immense – and we strive to bring the best of these games to you, either on the homepage, recommended games, badges, spotlights, etc. If MMOs don’t tickle your fancy, there are many other options out there that are available. You just need to look. :) But in my opinion (and not as an employee), MMOs aren’t ruining Kongregate. They’re just a genre of gaming that certain users do enjoy, and there are still thousands upon thousands of games besides MMOs that are available every day to play. If I don’t want to play an MMO, it’s easy to look passed them and play something else – but I’m still open to the idea that there are good MMOs out there, and I won’t bash a developer/game just for being an MMO.

Can we request kongregate to identify MMO with an icon instead of having players relying on the tag. Something similar to the unity3D icon to indicate that it requires unity3D.

 
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Originally posted by TheSilenT:

To me, this isn’t about badges. It’s an awful trend in flash games and online games as a whole.

Why make a good game when you can make some generic by the numbers MMO and target the big spender crowd? Why look for the praise of many and the donations of a few when you can vice grip the cash out of anyone with enough capital to even attempt to play your game?

I have no problem donating to a game I like. I also don’t mind paying up front to buy a game. However, a game that is specifically designed to manipulate you into paying infuriates me. Maybe you can make a business out of creating games, but you should not design a game as a business.

While I agree, these are easily ignored. Except when Kong does their part to go out of their way to highlight these games. As long as Kong keeps pushing these games front-and-center as opposed to… y’know… actual games with actual gameplay, we’ll have this problem.

What I guess is sickening aboot this, is that it’s like Kong is jumping on the Zynga model 3 years too late. Seen Zynga stock lately? And wonder why threads like this exist?

These games are sick and manipulative, and kong is supporting them. We all know why kong is supporting them – they need the revenue from them. I’m fine with that, AS LONG AS they also support the single player games.

And this is what people are objecting to is that Kong is pushing MMOs down the users’ throats. I don’t think they can get away from supporting MMOs, so my answer is simply create more badges and give them to the single player games. Show the badge hunters some respect… and then show the users some respect :)

 
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Originally posted by ohnonooh:

Can we request kongregate to identify MMO with an icon instead of having players relying on the tag. Something similar to the unity3D icon to indicate that it requires unity3D.

I strongly endorse this. Numerous times I’ve loaded up a game that I thought looked fun from the Hot New Games section after seeing the first three tags, only to find out that the fourth tag is multiplayer. I have no interest in playing those games outside of badges, so I can’t help but feel tricked into opening it.

 
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I agree on most counts. But I do find Realm of the Mad God to be very amusing.

 
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Realm of the Mad God is kind of an outlier in that the stuff you pay for is mostly cosmetic.

 
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I never said there wasn’t one or two good Multiplayer flash games out there (though RotMG is old as hell). I’m saying that for every RotMG, there are 100 unoriginal pay2win crapfests. All they care about is making a quick buck, not a sustainable game or anything creative. And they flood the front page and disguise themselves with wrong tags.

I brought this up before, but this particular example is the most annoying. Look at The Grinns Tale. It’s a single player game with no way to interact with other players, yet it is server sided and has energy game aspects everywhere. The game is designed to be so absurdly slow, tedious and grindy the player is forced to buy Pramins (the cash currency). Pramins solve every problem in the game.

These games are cancer and shouldn’t be allowed on Kong. But Kong is run as a business first and everything else second ever since they sold out to Gamestop and changed policies. These games make money, so they get promoted.

On a side note: A lot of these games are made by Chinese developers. Most Chinese developers don’t observe copyright law. While the Chinese government says they uphold IPR laws, it’s not enforced and there is no social stigma there about stealing copyrighted work. Look at Crystal Saga and the 50 games like it. They all steal from commercial games and from each other.

 
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And then you have stuff like Legacy of Heroes, which is nearly as shameless a direct skin of their previous game as FIFA has been doing lately.

Bonus points for having a simpler interface that runs even slower.

 
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Originally posted by TheSilenT:

I never said there wasn’t one or two good Multiplayer flash games out there (though RotMG is old as hell).

Published: 2011-10-31

I feel old now…

 
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Originally posted by DarkRainyKnight:
Originally posted by TheSilenT:

I never said there wasn’t one or two good Multiplayer flash games out there (though RotMG is old as hell).

Published: 2011-10-31

I feel old now…

RotMG was around for a long time before it came to Kong.

 
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Remember this…

Each action takes 1 energy to perform. Each energy point will regen after 3 minutes.

I swear, if I see ONE MORE of these kinds of games promoted heavily on kong…

 
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Originally posted by Frank101:

Remember this…

Each action takes 1 energy to perform. Each energy point will regen after 3 minutes.

I swear, if I see ONE MORE of these kinds of games promoted heavily on kong…

And you can buy more energy for the low low price of 49 Kreds!

BUT WAIT! Call RIGHT now and we’ll throw in a second Shamwow for FREE! (just pay separate shipping and handling.)

 
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Originally posted by TheSilenT:

I never said there wasn’t one or two good Multiplayer flash games out there (though RotMG is old as hell). I’m saying that for every RotMG, there are 100 unoriginal pay2win crapfests. All they care about is making a quick buck, not a sustainable game or anything creative. And they flood the front page and disguise themselves with wrong tags.

I brought this up before, but this particular example is the most annoying. Look at The Grinns Tale. It’s a single player game with no way to interact with other players, yet it is server sided and has energy game aspects everywhere. The game is designed to be so absurdly slow, tedious and grindy the player is forced to buy Pramins (the cash currency). Pramins solve every problem in the game.

These games are cancer and shouldn’t be allowed on Kong. But Kong is run as a business first and everything else second ever since they sold out to Gamestop and changed policies. These games make money, so they get promoted.

On a side note: A lot of these games are made by Chinese developers. Most Chinese developers don’t observe copyright law. While the Chinese government says they uphold IPR laws, it’s not enforced and there is no social stigma there about stealing copyrighted work. Look at Crystal Saga and the 50 games like it. They all steal from commercial games and from each other.

Yes the china plague.

http://www.kongregate.com/games/wsgame/soul-of-guardian-sog
Published:2012-09-19

http://www.kongregate.com/games/YouJoy/odin-quest
Published:2012-09-19

They have this game template(yes literally a code template) where those china people only just change the sprite and some text string and volia, you have a “new” game. I am not sure if you can even call them Dev.

 
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Originally posted by Frank101:

Remember this…

Each action takes 1 energy to perform. Each energy point will regen after 3 minutes.

I swear, if I see ONE MORE of these kinds of games promoted heavily on kong…

Blame FB. This shyt started from there.

 
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The problem isn’t MMO’s for me its just I want to play some games to entertain me but there is nothing but MMO’s and card games flooding the entire main page. When I look at featured games I can guarantee that it will most likely be almost all shitty card games or MMO’s, even in the top for the month and new games. There are just so many being advertised so often that the genres that I like to play I have to search for, sometimes for ages or I just play old ones that I know are good

 
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First of all I died laughing at whoever said Tyrant didn’t require you to pay to be the best…that’s the silliest load of crap I’ve heard in weeks, but I thank you for that laugh.
Also adding to the Zynga and doing this for profit thing, I remember a few years back I had heard mention that Zynga was making hundreds of thousands in USD monthly from their crappy cookie cutter games on Facebook. I also know that their income has more than doubled as well as their number of crappy games. Unfortunately…this insult to gaming has become a billion dollar business, and since worldwide economy is in the toilet it’s probably not going to stop.
Further adding to the badges I do quite dislike P2W games being badged because I dread the days when they become the daily badge(although maybe they never will, which would be awesome). I feel obligated to play on Kong for rewards since Gamestop bought this site out since it seems they have a bit of a Monopoly on video game sales in my State, therefore it’s the only physical place I can get copies of games, and playing on Kong gives me bonuses to PowerUp rewards.
But really I do miss the old days when I first came here…very few mmos and all single player flash games, and many of the best the internet had to offer at that. I will always be a member of Kong but I will always shed a tear every time I see that front page smothered in P2W games. Sorry that I went a bit off topic there but my 2cents to my feelings on “mmos” of Kong.

 
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Yeah the upper echelons of Tyrant are pretty much impossible to do anything without paying, but I’ll at least give it credit for bothering to be a decent game for the lower stuff. It’s probably one of the only MMOs on this site that I can look back and honestly say “yeah I don’t feel cheated out of minutes of my life.”

 
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Oh boy, Crystal Saga as the Featured Game on the very first slide.

For no apparent reason other than advertising.

Again.

 
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Originally posted by TheSilenT:

Oh boy, Crystal Saga as the Featured Game on the very first slide.

For no apparent reason other than advertising.

Again.

We get it, you don’t like the genre.

I happen to think it is the best MMO put on Kong this year.