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MMOs Are Ruining Kongregate... page 9

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Originally posted by bobby71983:
Originally posted by TheSilenT:

Oh boy, Crystal Saga as the Featured Game on the very first slide.

For no apparent reason other than advertising.

Again.

We get it, you don’t like the genre.

I happen to think it is the best MMO put on Kong this year.

It’s over a year old. And it just got promoted for no apparent reason. No badges, no big updates, just a new server. And R2 shits out servers every week on their main site.

The very first slide of the front page. To a year old game. That didn’t even originate on Kongregate.

 
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Originally posted by TheSilenT:
Originally posted by bobby71983:
Originally posted by TheSilenT:

Oh boy, Crystal Saga as the Featured Game on the very first slide.

For no apparent reason other than advertising.

Again.

We get it, you don’t like the genre.

I happen to think it is the best MMO put on Kong this year.

It’s over a year old. And it just got promoted for no apparent reason. No badges, no big updates, just a new server. And R2 shits out servers every week on their main site.

The very first slide of the front page. To a year old game. That didn’t even originate on Kongregate.

very few games originate on Kongregate.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by bobby71983:
Originally posted by TheSilenT:
Originally posted by bobby71983:
Originally posted by TheSilenT:

Oh boy, Crystal Saga as the Featured Game on the very first slide.

For no apparent reason other than advertising.

Again.

We get it, you don’t like the genre.

I happen to think it is the best MMO put on Kong this year.

It’s over a year old. And it just got promoted for no apparent reason. No badges, no big updates, just a new server. And R2 shits out servers every week on their main site.

The very first slide of the front page. To a year old game. That didn’t even originate on Kongregate.

very few games originate on Kongregate.

And? My point is they’re promoting third party cash cows over Kong exclusives. Real games see that slot maybe once, Crystal Saga has seen it 5 times. Not once was it for a real reason, like an update/expansion or badges. Just the same old “come play and give us money”.

At this point, Kongregate might as well rename itself “FacebookMMOportal”.

 
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Why the sudden surge of MMOs in the main page? Most of them will probably just be pay to win games, which is just what people on ‘free’ game site want. (sarcasm) The only game of note recently was The Grinn Tales, in my opinion. and I think it’s only on the main page because it’s popular. i had a sinking feeling when Gamestop bought kong. It might turn into a version of Steam, except without the good games.
edit: just making another point: there’s around five Multiplayer games advertised on the main page. Five. The only other ones is for some horror point and click game and another Cargo Bridge.

 
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Originally posted by TheSilenT:

And? My point is they’re promoting third party cash cows over Kong exclusives. Real games see that slot maybe once, Crystal Saga has seen it 5 times. Not once was it for a real reason, like an update/expansion or badges. Just the same old “come play and give us money”.

At this point, Kongregate might as well rename itself “FacebookMMOportal”.

It was for badges once. If you feel your point is valid there’s no reason to spoil it with hyperbole.

 
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As someone who has played almost ever MMO on kong for at least long enough to give a fair opinion of it, I can say that VERY FEW of the most recent games are “pay to win”.

Most of the biggest culprits are 2+ years old. The games by 5thplanetgames(Clash/Dawn of the Dragons, and Legacy of heroes) are probably the only true current “pay-to-win” MMOs on Kong at this time. You literally cannot compete in those games if you don’t spend. There is a wall that is impassable. You can still play it and enjoy it for free, but you will never compete for the top ranks.

In every other MMO I have played that was released in the last couple years, a free player could compete. The fact that you get options to pay for stuff thrown in your face all the time does not equal pay to win. You can usually pay $5-$10 for convenience, which is perfectly acceptable. I have given $5-$10 to many MMO’s on this site(5 different ones) because it was worth the cost.

 
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Originally posted by Bilious:
Originally posted by TheSilenT:

And? My point is they’re promoting third party cash cows over Kong exclusives. Real games see that slot maybe once, Crystal Saga has seen it 5 times. Not once was it for a real reason, like an update/expansion or badges. Just the same old “come play and give us money”.

At this point, Kongregate might as well rename itself “FacebookMMOportal”.

It was for badges once. If you feel your point is valid there’s no reason to spoil it with hyperbole.

Maybe. But I really don’t think I’m exaggerating here. These games are paying to be on the front page of Kong. Kong is happy to oblige them.

Some might see this as a harmless paid advert, like a banner running across the bottom promoting some unrelated product or game. But there are two problems with that. First, it’s prevalent and in a place Kong users first look when they bring up the site, a place they’ve trusted (or used to). Second, this is not some irrelevant product or game, it’s for something on Kongregate. Something already popular.

You have to call bullshit when you see it.

 
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If it’s been featured 5 times and only one of them had a reason, I feel like that statement is spiritually close enough.

Oh, and by the way, that list I posted the other day where 6/8 feature spots were plugging MMO’s or premium content in some way? Right now the Deep Sleep badge feature is the only one that isn’t.

 
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Originally posted by Senekis:

They pay Kong to advertise them. The featured games and similar sections are technically places for ads.

I don’t get why you keep complaining about ads in a spot designed for ads.

 
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Originally posted by Senekis93:
Originally posted by Senekis:

They pay Kong to advertise them. The featured games and similar sections are technically places for ads.

I don’t get why you keep complaining about ads in a spot designed for ads.

Didn’t used to be. Only since Gamestop took over. Now you’d be lucky to find a badge announcement or anything relevant amongst all the crap.

And there is a difference between a badge announcement for a new game and a paid advert run for the 5th time. If you can’t see that, then we have nothing to discuss.

 
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If you don’t like how the homepage looks then don’t go there. There’s really no need to visit the homepage anyway.

 
Flag Post
Originally posted by Senekis93:
Originally posted by Senekis:

They pay Kong to advertise them. The featured games and similar sections are technically places for ads.

I don’t get why you keep complaining about ads in a spot designed for ads.

It’s not like Kongregate is a business or anything.

 
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Originally posted by TheSilenT:
Originally posted by Senekis:
Originally posted by Senekis:

They pay Kong to advertise them. The featured games and similar sections are technically places for ads.

I don’t get why you keep complaining about ads in a spot designed for ads.

Didn’t used to be. Only since Gamestop took over. Now you’d be lucky to find a badge announcement or anything relevant amongst all the crap.

The Activity Feed says: “We added 1 badge to Deep Sleep, for a total of 15 points.”
Also, you’re one click away from the badges list / your favorite badges tool.

And there is a difference between a badge announcement for a new game and a paid advert run for the 5th time. If you can’t see that, then we have nothing to discuss.

I’m not arguing that

I hate those mediocre “games”, but it’s plain dumb to complain about adspots being used to display ads.

Instead of complaining and spamming nonsense, why don’t you suggest an alternative which generates as much money as the current MMOs do? I’m sure Kong staff would love to find a way to generate more money while making the site better.

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:
Originally posted by Senekis93:
Originally posted by Senekis:

They pay Kong to advertise them. The featured games and similar sections are technically places for ads.

I don’t get why you keep complaining about ads in a spot designed for ads.

It’s not like Kongregate is a business or anything.

This is a tired old argument. Being profit driven doesn’t inherently make you a corporate scumbag that ignores it’s fans/users. That’s about attitude. I don’t think that Kongregate is to that point yet (which is why I’m bothering to post all this), and hopefully the old staff still has some sway.

Also, I think this is getting away from the main point. It’s not just about the advertisement. It’s that traditional flash games are being ignored by developers in favor of Facebook MMOs. And Kongregate is making matters worse.

Sorting by badges or new games doesn’t help much when there isn’t anything there to begin with.

 
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Adding on: It’s not that we are pushing MMOs on users, there has been a seasonal dip in big single player games. This isn’t just on Kongregate either, but all across the industry. MMOs are frequent and highly rated on the site, and like other games that are highly rated and played by many users, we promote it (either with badges, or just spotlights.) So the view can be a bit skewed, and we as a website are looking for ways to bring more developers out of the woodwork to get some good single player games back into the market (for example, the Ludum Dare contest.) These type of games built the flash gaming industry, after all, and we want to promote that idea and indie-devs. We want all types of games on the site though, whether it be MMO, single player, multiplayer, co-op, etc. But if there’s a dip of single player games in the market, we’re left with MMOs.

But yeah, I blame it being a bad time of the year. I think of like the movie industry – when do all the big blockbuster movies come out? Summer and Winter.

Of course, if you’re playing a single player game and think to yourself “MAN, THIS IS AN AWESOME GAME!” let us know in the badge suggestion thread. There are a ton of games on this site, and who better to sift through them and pick out the good ones than you guys? So feel free to share good games you find. We do want to hear what the community is buzzing about (Infectonator 2 anyone?) :)

 
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Thanks for the input Z. I hope you’re right, that this is just a phase or a seasonal thing.

Though this trend has been getting progressively worse for months now, I don’t see it suddenly stopping anytime soon. Not trying to be a pessimist, but it looks pretty bleak in the world of flash games. Hell, in gaming as a whole. Creativity is damn near extinct, tossed aside for quick and easy profit.

 
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Huh. just saying: you don’t have to take every MMO that’s pushed onto Kong. (not implying you do) Perhaps sifting through some older games you might find a gem. Incidentally, was “1 will survive” ever on the main page? Or the Being One Series? Endless war? Feudalism? wait, feudalism has badges…
edit:@bobby71983
Not everyone has money to spend on games. The majority of people who complain are people who consider premium content wasteful. Also, it’s nigh impossible to have premium content and not appear greedy.

 
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Originally posted by wiiwonder:

Also, it’s nigh impossible to have premium content and not appear greedy.

Not necessarily. When premium content is available, it always comes down to what you can do with it.

Crap games usually have systems where:

  • You are “forced” to buy their premium content in order to be able to have a “normal” game experience. ie, energy-systems.
  • Purchasing items give you a huge advantage over regular players. It doesn’t matter if your skills are superior; any useless player who bought the newest weapon or unit will defeat you.
  • Everything is ridiculously slow unless you pay. ie, You need 10,000 exp to level up and get 10 – 15 / battle, but you can buy 50,000 xp points with kreds. Or you have three workers and premium players can buy six.

On the other hand, the premium content in good multiplayer games tends to be:

  • Aesthetical items; new skins, backgrounds or colors. Gameplay isn’t affected.
  • Hosting privileges: The game is free, but you can buy extra maps or options for games which you host.
  • Non-overpowered items: You can buy new weapons, cards or whatever, but a non-premium player will still be able to beat you if he’s more skilled than you.

It doesn’t make sense to attack all multiplayer games, or all games with premium content. You just have to play it for some minutes to find out what kind of game it is.

In my case, I’ve spent kreds in two games:

ShellshockLive: I played as a free member for a lot of time, and I was able to defeat premium players. I loved that as it’s one of the few games with balanced premium content; the best weapon is free and actually, buying weapon packs reduce your chances of getting that weapon due to the combat system.

In the end, I even purchased some lifetime deluxe thing which I don’t even need, just because I want to support the developer.

The other game was The Godfather: Five Families.
I spent money in that one to prove a point in an argument: I joined a 3 months old server, purchased some game currency and I got to the top 5 in the leaderboard the same week.
I played it for a couple of months and kept my position in the leaderboard until I stopped playing it (not before killing the army of another premium player ♥).

I gave the Godfather 1/5 and helped organize and promote an “all the top players quit the game” thing.

About SSL; I still play it and I’m waiting for SSL2 to reach Kong.

 
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Originally posted by Senekis93:
Originally posted by wiiwonder:

Also, it’s nigh impossible to have premium content and not appear greedy.

Not necessarily. When premium content is available, it always comes down to what you can do with it.

Crap games usually have systems where:

  • You are “forced” to buy their premium content in order to be able to have a “normal” game experience. ie, energy-systems.
  • Purchasing items give you a huge advantage over regular players. It doesn’t matter if your skills are superior; any useless player who bought the newest weapon or unit will defeat you.
  • Everything is ridiculously slow unless you pay. ie, You need 10,000 exp to level up and get 10 – 15 / battle, but you can buy 50,000 xp points with kreds. Or you have three workers and premium players can buy six.

On the other hand, the premium content in good multiplayer games tends to be:

  • Aesthetical items; new skins, backgrounds or colors. Gameplay isn’t affected.
  • Hosting privileges: The game is free, but you can buy extra maps or options for games which you host.
  • Non-overpowered items: You can buy new weapons, cards or whatever, but a non-premium player will still be able to beat you if he’s more skilled than you.

About SSL; I still play it and I’m waiting for SSL2 to reach Kong.

This. A thousand times this. Another acceptable form of premium content is a one-time charge for Premium status (as long as that doesn’t break the game). Or nice tools that give a premium player an interface or convenience advantage, like helpful automation (so long as the game isn’t designed to be more tedious to “make” you buy it).

The main problem is, a good 95% of these Multiplayer games flooding Kongregate are of the Crap variety ala Godfather: Five Families. That’s why I’m bashing them with such a broad stick.

 
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I agree to the above. The problem is people see that developers of MMO make money, so they churn out low quality, pay to win games and hope to get rich. This happens in almost all areas involving selling. A few people make a tidy sum, then several dozen fools try to do the same with worse games, the standard goes down and it’s some time before they’re popular again, and the cycle continues.
edit: Ever play remnant of skystone? It cost almost 200 dollars to get access to a special class, get some game currency and a few other privileges. The game’s non premium currency was unbalanced: it cost almost a thousand of ’em to buy a shirt, with enemies dropping 1-3 at a time, and the chance of a drop low.

 
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Originally posted by wiiwonder:

I agree to the above. The problem is people see that developers of MMO make money, so they churn out low quality, pay to win games and hope to get rich. This happens in almost all areas involving selling. A few people make a tidy sum, then several dozen fools try to do the same with worse games, the standard goes down and it’s some time before they’re popular again, and the cycle continues.

Except Facebook-style energy games are still on the rise. It’s going to be a long time before the masses stop feeding the beast. Flash gaming might be permanently dead by then.

 
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I don’t think energy-style games are doing as well. 2-3 years ago with Mafia Wars and stuff, absolutely. But look at Zynga, they’re hurting badly…

 
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I’m not trying to come on here to start a fight or nothing but Dawn of the Dragons is by far not pay to win. Why? First of all I’ve never spent a penny on it and I’m lvl 200+ and I smoke paying players all the time. Second: This was stated on the forum by the devs a long time ago, 4/5 of the top players are free players. Third: You can earn the premium money in game, without paying a single penny. Thats right! you can get planet coins without paying! However unlike some games(IE:Tyrant) its not at an unrealistic rate. Now I’m not saying it’s the best game ever. It is still like reading a picture book, so if that’s not your thing then so be it. And yes it does also feature the oh so dreaded energy/stamina/honor bar system. However there’s ways to make your bars bigger, once you get to about lvl 100 you can play for about an hour and every level more is even more play time.
Also now that Z has mentioned it I have noticed a large decrease in single player games. So I guess maybe that’s where all our attention should be. Just need to focus on getting more single player devs, and for people who have a bit of loose change it’s never a bad idea to tip them, after all Kong has a “tip jar” feature right next to the game window. Nothing wrong with supporting your favorite devs and it will encourage them to keep doing what they’re doing! Once again just my 2 cents on the subject at hand.

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:

I don’t think energy-style games are doing as well. 2-3 years ago with Mafia Wars and stuff, absolutely. But look at Zynga, they’re hurting badly…

And to replace Farmville there are about 500 clones. They don’t care if they only make a couple bucks then close, they want those couple bucks.

 
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Funny enough on the topic of Farmville and Zynga just last night I was playing Infectonator 2 and I scrolled down to see and advertisement for Farmville 2 with Zynga’s logo slapped on the side. So they sure as hell aren’t dead yet.