Forums Kongregate

Changes to the Collabs section page 4

257 posts

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pls no ):

 
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I remember I made a thread long ago somewhere, where kong should expand in their art and sound stuff. Come on you gave it 3 click-able words for the actual bit of it. To me Kong should be just about the games, yer they’re great, but if you hear an awesome song or see a kickass picture, then that can be 10x better then playing a game, mainly because it is inspirational at first.

 
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Well, it was fun as long as it lasted. Secretly, I’m glad my artwork will be removed. They suck anyway :D
Not that others pieces of artwork suck. No, removal of collabs saddens me because there are some really talented artists out there. For example, I would never have found one of my favorite songs, Robotaki’s Falling From Heaven soundtrack if Collabs didn’t exist

Anyway, as disappointing as this is, it’s very logical
What else can I say? Hopefully there will be more badges to compensate weekly 10-point loss :D

 
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Just wondering, why exactly did you want to remove it? I mean i don’t really see a reason to do so..

 
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Originally posted by bjjdude:

Just wondering, why exactly did you want to remove it? I mean i don’t really see a reason to do so..

From their second paragraph it sounds like they felt it was not awesome enough for kong, and did not know how to improve it to make it awesome.

Edit:

Originally posted by trickyrodent:

It’s that we want every aspect of the site to be excellent. Collabs, sadly, is not excellent. It’s used by a very small percentage of people, and the tools are pretty clunky. Considering that it’s not a natural fit for what Kongregate is about (social gaming), it makes sense to focus our energies on improving the social and gaming aspects, and encourage folks to use other sites for sharing their art and music.


should answer some more.

If they could find a way to give it more traffic and related to their “social gaming”, it would probably stay.

 
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If they could find a way to give it more traffic and related to their “social gaming”, it would probably stay.

Seems the traffic part would be easy: homepage links, chat ads, contests, Community showcase, Activity Feeds, more rating points proportional to rating games, etc.
As to “social gaming”: I’m sure the Collabs already had a community but reducing the Art & Sounds from the profiles and not really promoting the section probably didn’t help growth.
Just saying.

 
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I believe they could make the collabs have easily double the traffic.. almost anything promoting it would increase its visits..

 
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once they even held a contest. That dragged in a lot of new people.

 
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I cant help but feel our argument is being ignored

 
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Originally posted by buggerd:

I cant help but feel our argument is being ignored

Not ignored, just already taken into consideration.

 
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We could drive traffic to the section, either by promotion on the homepage or a contest or whatnot, but that wouldn’t fix the underlying issues that the section is suffering from. No amount of traffic or exposure will fix those issues.

I was involved with the section as a curator from its inception and was legitimately excited about the section when it launched because it was a really awesome idea and filled a niche that wasn’t neatly filled at the time. The goal wasn’t just to have some kind of art or music portfolio tied to your Kong account, but create a community where artists and devs can meet up and create games or whatnot together. We were able to get a lot of people, both artists and normal users looking at art, to the section initially and we got a ton of great work uploaded there. However, it’s apparent now that discovery, which is probably the most important thing that the section would need to do well in order to be successful, is choppy and does not scale well. You have the top-rated art and sounds of all time, but those rarely change (if ever) and are usually dominated by the same 2 or 3 artists. You can scroll through the list of art sorted by rating, but it’s all just a hodgepodge. If you’re looking for a pixel sprite artist, you might have to go through 10 pages before finding one artist, and even then they might not actually want to collaborate. If you’re looking for some music for your game, it’s incredibly difficult to find a song that fits the mood of your game and loops. So what the current system does is highlight the same small handful of artists indefinitely, regardless of whether they are interested in collaborating or even if their art would work well in a game, and makes it difficult for someone to discover an artist who is talented and willing to collaborate, which was the initial goal of the section.

Since discovery doesn’t really work with the section, it has ultimately just become a sort of online portfolio of sorts. You can upload your art piece and get a small handful of comments, but not much else besides that. Sites like DeviantArt, SoundCloud, Newgrounds, etc all handle online art portfolios really well because that’s what those sites were designed for. Since we’re not really interested in hosting an art portfolio section (since it doesn’t make a ton of sense in the scope of the site as a whole), we’re ending the section entirely. It would take an incredible amount of work to change the section so that discovery is organic and user friendly, and a game dev is able to browse the section and quickly find an artist to collaborate with. Such a section would be totally awesome and I’d love to have something like that on the site, but that’s simply not what the collabs have become. As a section that encourages and facilitates creative collaboration between developers and artists, it would have made a lot of sense to keep it on the site, but as simply a portfolio site, it really doesn’t make sense for its continued existence on a site dedicated to social gaming.

 
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I personally thought this was a nice feature of Kongregate. But I do understand their justification for it.

 
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well, as much as hate to agree, yes that does make since, but that doesn’t stop you from slapping a different title to it and just keeping it here.. Its a very nice section that is loved by the people who go to it. You have created something you didn’t plan to create, yet here it is with People who are willing to use it… what is bad about that?

 
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also sites like DeviantArt, SoundCloud, Newgrounds are a bit hectic, porn filled, or a bother to navigate or be seen.. and quite frankly if we wanted to post there, we probably would have chose those instead of here…

 
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im very sad to hear that kong is pulling the plug on their arts & sounds section. but if it means those resources can be freed up and put towards improving the site in a manner that best serves the needs of the majority of its users, i suppose its for the best

even tho i was a regular peruser and contributor to the section, i have to admit it wasnt as robust and put-together as say, newground’s arts & sounds. since i gather kong is not aiming to be the multimedia site newgrounds is, it makes sense for them to streamline their operation and keep things strictly flash game-based

so long collabs its been fun :)

 
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Originally posted by rawismojo:

We could drive traffic to the section, either by promotion on the homepage or a contest or whatnot, but that wouldn’t fix the underlying issues that the section is suffering from. No amount of traffic or exposure will fix those issues.

I was involved with the section as a curator from its inception and was legitimately excited about the section when it launched because it was a really awesome idea and filled a niche that wasn’t neatly filled at the time. The goal wasn’t just to have some kind of art or music portfolio tied to your Kong account, but create a community where artists and devs can meet up and create games or whatnot together. We were able to get a lot of people, both artists and normal users looking at art, to the section initially and we got a ton of great work uploaded there. However, it’s apparent now that discovery, which is probably the most important thing that the section would need to do well in order to be successful, is choppy and does not scale well. You have the top-rated art and sounds of all time, but those rarely change (if ever) and are usually dominated by the same 2 or 3 artists. You can scroll through the list of art sorted by rating, but it’s all just a hodgepodge. If you’re looking for a pixel sprite artist, you might have to go through 10 pages before finding one artist, and even then they might not actually want to collaborate. If you’re looking for some music for your game, it’s incredibly difficult to find a song that fits the mood of your game and loops. So what the current system does is highlight the same small handful of artists indefinitely, regardless of whether they are interested in collaborating or even if their art would work well in a game, and makes it difficult for someone to discover an artist who is talented and willing to collaborate, which was the initial goal of the section.


Well, I believe the easiest way to solve this problem is doing something about the search bar/method, not the collabs. There was a tags section when uploading, they seemed like a brilliant idea, but they actually had no use, I could type some very relevant things as tags, and see no difference when searching. Infact, I’ve noticed that unless a sound has a 4+ rating its hard to search for it at all.. Search “Full Circle” (a track by sabrage, high rating, farily recent.) You get, “Kongregate Sound: Full Circle (For Bonnie) by Sabrage” as the second result. Not bad, I can easily tell what that is, and I didn’t even type the name exactly, mind you I have no idea what he tagged it as.. Search “Bunch-O-Ideas” (a track by myself 3.14 rating submitted around the same time) You get “Kongregate Sound: Browse Music” as a top result with “Bunch-O-Ideas” in bold. I typed this exactly as it appears but the link directs you to newest tracks page on which you will have to search (the page) for the specific track you wanted, even after you searched (the site) for it.. I think a better search method and perhaps inclusion of tags would INSTANTLY improve how effective searching/discovering.. Even as a sloppily designed portfolio, its still a grand archive of music/art that many people of the community don’t want to see abandoned and removed..
 
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I think the point is that it’d be a significant investment of resources to give the Collabs the overhaul it needs to be functional again. As well, it’s use and intended use differ greatly. Plus, it doesn’t really fit in to what Kongregate wants to be, which is social gaming.

It’s like ArmorGames launching a Q&A section with the intention of using it for game-related stuff and it being used to help people buy the best vehicle suited for them. The intention is there and it’s nice, but it doesn’t fit with what ArmorGames is.

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:

I think the point is that it’d be a significant investment of resources to give the Collabs the overhaul it needs to be functional again. As well, it’s use and intended use differ greatly. Plus, it doesn’t really fit in to what Kongregate wants to be, which is social gaming.

It’s like ArmorGames launching a Q&A section with the intention of using it for game-related stuff and it being used to help people buy the best vehicle suited for them. The intention is there and it’s nice, but it doesn’t fit with what ArmorGames is.

but kong isnt as much about social gaming as it is social anything-under-the-sun-that’s-kinda-entertaining.. kong has so many non-games for anyone and everyone to enjoy, the flash apps and unity things are still quite popular even though they aren’t actually games. The collabs were a convenient way to informally share our non game projects without needing to throw them into our own flash projects and upload into the games section of the site.

 
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That’s exactly what Kongregate is about, social gaming. Don’t you remember all those changes at the beginning of the summer?

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:

That’s exactly what Kongregate is about, social gaming. Don’t you remember all those changes at the beginning of the summer?

umm.. err.. no.. I can’t recall anything.. Only changes I know of are the chat system (new games/popular games get separate chat) and the fixing of the browsing recent/all time after it was broke from updating the player page to browse artists work.. (no longer newest/top rated) I’m not sure if those are the changes your thinking of.. I only really came here for the last year to chat and check (comment/upload/rate) collabs..
One more thing, has anyone else mentioned the few exclusive to kong artitsts we have? I know of a certain few that upload only to kongregate and nowhere else.. and I don’t exactly want to lose track of those people who come here once in a long while just to share a track..

 
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the only thing I have actually noticed in the update is that yo umade it harder to navigate through art and music quicker, yet easier to find specific peoples work, harder to find art from someones profile pager, and fix some buggy chats..

 
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aww sad but i do understand rip collabs xD

 
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Con- I can’t upload my art :(

Pro- I don’t have to worry about uploading my art. :D

 
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Originally posted by trickyrodent:

*A note about downloading: If your uploaded them as “all rights reserved” it’s not currently possible to download them. Whoops! In the next deployment, we’ll fix it so that the person who uploaded them can download them regardless of the settings. At that point, we’ll whisper or email everyone who uploaded works to the section, so they’ll have plenty of notice.

I’m sure y’all have questions that I didn’t answer, so go ahead and ask them!

People probably still have their files somewhere. :P

 
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Behold! The sovereign Kongregate rises!

Seriously though, if they’d invest in the collabs, I daresay it would benefit them greatly over time.