Forums Kongregate

Request for a Feature. Online save. page 2

41 posts

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Not really. It’s pretty easy to prevent save file loss to begin with. It’s really easy to back-up the files, too. It just seems really silly to leave a site over such a minor distinction.

 
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I thought it was taken for granted that people’s game progress will not be wiped unless they order it to be wiped? Isn’t it the basic right of players? How come it’s the paid player’s right now?

 
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It’s the basic right of players that do their due diligence. It is already a pretty widespread issue right now . . .

The point of paid features on Kongregate, K+, is to add extra value to the paying customer without affecting core gameplay. The exact same thing is happening here. Players should already be doing their due diligence to protect themselves and all a cloud save feature would do is remove that necessity. That doesn’t affect the core gaming experience, just adds convenience for the paying players.

 
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When does automatically saving save files become a privilege? Back in the old times, I can play Aeternus Lamnia Duo and Dwarf Complete for weeks, while having no idea where is the directory of the save file.

At least saving is a free feature in free iOS games.

 
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Kongregate does not delete save files. If your save files were deleted, it is because of something either you or (in rare cases) the game’s developer did. The existence of an online save feature would not change this.

This isn’t a case of “Kongregate wants you to pay for online save storage or they’re going to randomly delete your save files”. It’s a case of “Saves are normally untouched, but sometimes weird computer glitches happen (as apparently happened to you), so we’re giving you an opportunity to guard against that.”

Flash data storage is inherently volatile, with the potential for disruption at any time. There’s nothing that can be done about that. Kongregate can offer protection against that by offering online storage, but it would come with a cost to them. That’s why they would most likely have to recover that cost by requiring some form of payment in exchange for the feature. There’s nothing shady going on here.

 
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I’m going to have to call [citation needed] on the claim that Kongregate isn’t doing it because of the storage cost.

1. Your saves are your local computer’s saves. Kongregate doesn’t have access to them. Posts blaming Kongregate for lost saves assume that Kongregate has access to your computer’s files in the first place (they don’t).

2. ArmorGames save API needs to be implemented by the developer into the game, for reasons explained in #1. This is similar to how the badges API works today. This means that if Kongregate were also to implement cloud saving, only new games would support the feature (reasonable assumption), and only if the developer spent the time to implement it. It’s not a magic bullet. And there has to be some thought put into the API design.

3. I would guess Kongregate’s storage needs are already pretty high. It hosts “68000 free games”, and a ton of data is already stored per user (comments, ratings, badges, PMs, user-created content (custom levels), social graph i.e. friends list, forum posts, likes, etc. etc.). Flash game saves aren’t that large. I recall using one of the backup scripts on this forum; my huge amount of saves was no more than a few megabytes compressed (possibly even less than 1 MB). Combined with #2, the storage requirement will probably start very small.

I think Kongregate is completely capable of introducing this feature. Let’s not make excuses for them. The K+ theory is entirely possible, but I’d like to hear an official stance. On the flip side, people are also overestimating the usefulness of this feature. It isn’t going to make everything better overnight.

 
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It is 2013!! Online saves should be the norm for a site the size of Kongregate. I read that protecting your local saves is easy and that is true but that means that you can only access you saves when you are at your PC at home.Once again, it is 2013!! That IS NOT the norm for most gamers these days. When I am on the go, I can access my Armor Games saves online, complete a large portion of a game and then pick up where I left off when I am back home. Armor Games is moving ahead of Kong with this relatively simple feature. I wont hold my breath for an official response to this thread however…..

 
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Come on, nobody expect Kong to add cloud save on every game, no matter they are rated 4.7 or 2.7. As I said, AG got some best developer out there for a reason. Louissi’s treason against maxgames, iriysoft’s cursed treasure 2, and Jazza, who clearly loves NG but still works for AG in the name of Elvidian Entertainment. Why? Because AG use their money well, in stuffs like cloud save among many other small but useful feature.

I insist a free cloud save on some Kong-brand games, like Nerdook’s for example, because it represents how Kongregate treats free player and devs. Imagine if Kong offered some space for EBF4 savefiles, perhaps kupo707 will offer a month of exclusive period.

By the way, many people do not have a strong bond towards one major site. A lost savefile might easily mean a player quitting Kong and playing on AG.

 
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zAlbee:

- The “administrators would like the feature too but storage costs is a big concern” is a direct quote from an administrator. So while they may have lied, fudged the truth a bit of misunderstood, I wouldn’t know. On the basis of good faith and in context they had no reason to lie, I believe them.

- I understand how the save file system works and everything, but not the background mechanics. Doesn’t Kongregate tell the game where to put the save files (chat.kongregate.com)? I remember a thread a few weeks ago where save files were being placed in assets.kongregate.com and an administrator posted, saying that the issue was being looked into, implying Kongregate has control (at least somewhat) over where the save files are located. Couldn’t they just change the location of the save file to their own servers thus making the feature retroactive and applying to all games?

Originally posted by Pulsaris:

By the way, many people do not have a strong bond towards one major site. A lost savefile might easily mean a player quitting Kong and playing on AG.

Where did you get this fact from?


If it isn’t possible to implement a retroactive cloud save feature, then it should be one of the priorities because the quicker it’s out the more games will have it.

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:

- The “administrators would like the feature too but storage costs is a big concern” is a direct quote from an administrator.

No, it’s not. What they said is that it’s something they’re looking into, but the cost is a concern. As discussed here (and how did we end up with two parallel threads on this subject, anyway?), the overall cost is certainly potentially substantial, but the storage part of it is simply not large. So focusing on the costs of storage is, in my opinion, the entirely wrong way to look at it.

- I understand how the save file system works and everything, but not the background mechanics. Doesn’t Kongregate tell the game where to put the save files (chat.kongregate.com)? I remember a thread a few weeks ago where save files were being placed in assets.kongregate.com and an administrator posted, saying that the issue was being looked into, implying Kongregate has control (at least somewhat) over where the save files are located. Couldn’t they just change the location of the save file to their own servers thus making the feature retroactive and applying to all games?

No. Kongregate (along with the Flash application itself) has some control over what directory your saves go into in your AppData\Roaming\Macromedia\Flash Player\#SharedObjects\ABCD1234 folder, but that’s it. Everything else is determined by Flash.

 
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I thing it’s a good idea, but it’s not essential . It’s not so hard to backup the savefiles.

Originally posted by adv0catus:

zAlbee:


- I understand how the save file system works and everything, but not the background mechanics. Doesn’t Kongregate tell the game where to put the save files (chat.kongregate.com)? I remember a thread a few weeks ago where save files were being placed in assets.kongregate.com and an administrator posted, saying that the issue was being looked into, implying Kongregate has control (at least somewhat) over where the save files are located. Couldn’t they just change the location of the save file to their own servers thus making the feature retroactive and applying to all games?

That’s not how it works. The flash application can’t save nothing directly on the server unless it sends a request. The Shared Objects are directly saved on your computer and they can’t be saved on the server unless the game is programmed to send a request with the data.

 
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I fail to see how saves take up much more space than storage of game scores. Depending on the complexity of the game, it shouldn’t really take up more space than that, and in some cases even less.

 
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Originally posted by adv0catus:

zAlbee:

- The “administrators would like the feature too but storage costs is a big concern” is a direct quote from an administrator. So while they may have lied, fudged the truth a bit of misunderstood, I wouldn’t know. On the basis of good faith and in context they had no reason to lie, I believe them.

I’m not saying anyone is lying, however, I would like to see a link to this quote (hence [citation needed]). For all I know, it could just be a rumour that was repeated enough times that people believed it to be true.

In addition to what plujan/SumGato said above,

The reason Kongregate can affect what folder that saves go in is because Flash always stores in a folder with the domain name of the site hosting the Flash SWF files. It’s a logical security measure to prevent, for example, shady-hacker-site.com from accessing/altering the save files of large-bank.com for example. Browser cookies work the same way. You may have hundreds of cookies on the same computer, but Site A will only ever be able to read/write from Site A’s own cookies. The move of save files from chat.kongregate.com to assets.kongregate.com was probably an unintended consequence of Kongregate moving their SWF hosting location.

 
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It wouldn’t be an automatic process; it’d be up to the user to manually update his/her online backup.
Making it part of Kong+ and setting some limitations such as bandwidth/month usage would be a good way to implement it.

I requested this long time ago (when the K+ thing started):
That’s as official as it gets. Take it as you want. Given that it was requested over a year ago, I’m losing my hope on this.

 
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Wouldn’t it be fairly easy to allow account saves exclusively for Kong Plus members? This way, the most serious of players would be the ones allowed to save on the account, and not people who don’t use their account for three months straight.

 
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Originally posted by supernintendosp:

Wouldn’t it be fairly easy to allow account saves exclusively for Kong Plus members? This way, the most serious of players would be the ones allowed to save on the account, and not people who don’t use their account for three months straight.

Then a new issue will emerge for Kong Plus membership , do you remove their hard earned saves when their membership expires?