Draft loop hole

40 posts

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Draft ID: 137319
IGN: Harbinger

I started the draft with only 19 cards…… the system should remind you that you are not starting with 20 cards……. if only it reminds me of that, i will be able to get first place in that draft….. the last round is a very close battle…. lost only because i lack 1 card…… if only i started with 20 cards, i would have won that round…..

 
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That’s not really a loophole, is it? Just pay attention to your card count.

 
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This is intended, Draft decks may be 10-20 cards, as the creator sees strategically fit ^^

 
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Originally posted by The_Rider:

This is intended, Draft decks may be 10-20 cards, as the creator sees strategically fit ^^

In b4 ragepost:
Yes, it is possible for having fewer than 20 cards to be strategically optimal.
It’s just incredibly unlikely and possibly has never happened :).

 
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I can see wanting 10 if you get an NotG and a few Alchs (though I hear Alchs are obtainable in Draft/Gold packs anymore) and wanted to try and cycle 10.

 
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you need a few copy of alc for that and since you can only use 1 potion and 1 duplicate of npc, it is impossible to cycle in draft

 
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As sum1c001 said, a draft deck below 20 cards is very unlikely to be favourable…. except maybe if the devs developed a card that is better as your deck is smaller (deals damage based on number of mc divided by the number of cards left in deck (need to have at least 1 card left in deck))

 
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Originally posted by SilentXSerene:

you need a few copy of alc for that and since you can only use 1 potion and 1 duplicate of npc, it is impossible to cycle in draft

Originally posted by SilentXSerene:

As sum1c001 said, a draft deck below 20 cards is very unlikely to be favourable…. except maybe if the devs developed a card that is better as your deck is smaller (deals damage based on number of mc divided by the number of cards left in deck (need to have at least 1 card left in deck))

A number of things:
Try to avoid double-posting – I’ve notice you doing this often. Press “edit” in the picture, quote and flag area on the left of a post, and type in your second response. You can also delete posts by going to edit, and clicking delete post.

A stable NotG cycle isn’t possible. However, NotG, Alch and decent heals, makes a deck very hard to kill, with decent damage.

Less cards can also be good when you’d have to fill in with deplete cards or terrible commons, or when you are playing an assassin (and need to stuff your deck with ONLY high damage – it’s kill fast or die, after all)

I think they should at least post a warning for a deck less than 20 cards. Something like “Your deck has less than 20 cards. Are you sure you want to save?”, so that you don’t mess up, but can still do 10 cards if you REALLY want.

 
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It might be possible to cycle with tons of cards that are on-use banish, but that is highly unlikely

 
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Originally posted by richliu:

It might be possible to cycle with tons of cards that are on-use banish, but that is highly unlikely

Yep, very unlikely to get at least 8 of those cards in 1 draft…..

Originally posted by r2d2go:
Originally posted by SilentXSerene:

you need a few copy of alc for that and since you can only use 1 potion and 1 duplicate of npc, it is impossible to cycle in draft


Originally posted by SilentXSerene:

As sum1c001 said, a draft deck below 20 cards is very unlikely to be favourable…. except maybe if the devs developed a card that is better as your deck is smaller (deals damage based on number of mc divided by the number of cards left in deck (need to have at least 1 card left in deck))


A number of things:
Try to avoid double-posting – I’ve notice you doing this often. Press “edit” in the picture, quote and flag area on the left of a post, and type in your second response. You can also delete posts by going to edit, and clicking delete post.


A stable NotG cycle isn’t possible. However, NotG, Alch and decent heals, makes a deck very hard to kill, with decent damage.


Less cards can also be good when you’d have to fill in with deplete cards or terrible commons, or when you are playing an assassin (and need to stuff your deck with ONLY high damage – it’s kill fast or die, after all)


I think they should at least post a warning for a deck less than 20 cards. Something like “Your deck has less than 20 cards. Are you sure you want to save?”, so that you don’t mess up, but can still do 10 cards if you REALLY want.


I see that you agree with me there should be a warning, some kind of confirmation for not using 20 cards (the maximum number of cards) in draft….
But i think nobody will ever use 10 cards in draft and win without any OP legend……. and if they have an OP legend, they probably will still get 20 decks for safety reasons (some cards can deal more than 10 dmg when crit) so nobody will actually choose only 10 cards if they can stuff in 20 cards in draft

 
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Well, banish on deplete stuff and a few banish on use could make a decent chance of cycle. After all, you only need 4 of them, total… but that’s still a lot. Less than 10 cards is still viable for Sins as I said, and when you’ve got ~6 good rares and a partial cycle, but not any other decent cards, because then you can increase your durability/damage with the rares but retain the same health by cycling more often/for longer.

 
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but you need to get notg AND alchemist for a chance of creating a partial cycle in draft…. furthermore, the probability of getting spear of destruction is higher than the probability of getting notg, so it is still very risky…… therefore, even if you get notg and alchemist in draft by some really lucky chance, i dont think you will use only 10 cards……. (btw, you can also get aristeia in draft, which lessen the probability for the cycle to be effective as in draft, it is limited to 1 npc duplicate….. and a max of 3 npc)

Anyway, using only 10 cards while the max cards that you can use in draft is 20 means that your opponent have an advantage of 10 more hp……. or in other words, your opponent have dealt 10 damage to you even before the fight begins…..

Even you should have experienced the feeling of losing by a difference of 1 card……. usually, it feels great because it is an exciting battle….. but the reason for my lost in that draft is because i only brought 19 cards by accident….. so i felt really stupid for not being able to check that i have used 20 cards…. and consequently giving my opponent the advantage that he needed to win that draft……..

 
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Originally posted by SilentXSerene:

but you need to get notg AND alchemist for a chance of creating a partial cycle in draft…. furthermore, the probability of getting spear of destruction is higher than the probability of getting notg, so it is still very risky…… therefore, even if you get notg and alchemist in draft by some really lucky chance, i dont think you will use only 10 cards……. (btw, you can also get aristeia in draft, which lessen the probability for the cycle to be effective as in draft, it is limited to 1 npc duplicate….. and a max of 3 npc)

Anyway, using only 10 cards while the max cards that you can use in draft is 20 means that your opponent have an advantage of 10 more hp……. or in other words, your opponent have dealt 10 damage to you even before the fight begins…..

Even you should have experienced the feeling of losing by a difference of 1 card……. usually, it feels great because it is an exciting battle….. but the reason for my lost in that draft is because i only brought 19 cards by accident….. so i felt really stupid for not being able to check that i have used 20 cards…. and consequently giving my opponent the advantage that he needed to win that draft……..

Not saying that they SHOULDN’T change it, just saying the possibility of a deck that’s less than 20 cards is low, but possible. For example, if you get crap cards and are forced to use a common, you might not use it because holding a junk card in your hand for half the game is worse than 1 hp loss. Anyway, if you agree with the fact that it’s POSSIBLE, than it’s a waste of time to reply with more reasons why it’s unlikely. I’m adamant on the fact that it’s possible, and that adding a warning is better.

Responding to the SoD argument, SoD has 3 attack, so it will only banish 2 when Sent on Sent, and with decent cards a Sin will be destroyed by a NotG deck unless they get SoD early (highly unlikely). High Magic banish is hard – the only one I know of has a survivor 10 req, so it’s hard to survive to that point, hard to draw, and not super likely to be gotten in a pack. Both still only have a low chance of breaking the cycle anyway – you must get Alch when NotG is banished, or NotG when alch is depleted, and the NotG is still a heal 5 damage 0-5 if you banish alch from deplete. A small deck is still better with alch, NotG and even 1 or 2 self-banishing cards and a few decentish heals.

 
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Originally posted by r2d2go:
Originally posted by SilentXSerene:

but you need to get notg AND alchemist for a chance of creating a partial cycle in draft…. furthermore, the probability of getting spear of destruction is higher than the probability of getting notg, so it is still very risky…… therefore, even if you get notg and alchemist in draft by some really lucky chance, i dont think you will use only 10 cards……. (btw, you can also get aristeia in draft, which lessen the probability for the cycle to be effective as in draft, it is limited to 1 npc duplicate….. and a max of 3 npc)

Anyway, using only 10 cards while the max cards that you can use in draft is 20 means that your opponent have an advantage of 10 more hp……. or in other words, your opponent have dealt 10 damage to you even before the fight begins…..

Even you should have experienced the feeling of losing by a difference of 1 card……. usually, it feels great because it is an exciting battle….. but the reason for my lost in that draft is because i only brought 19 cards by accident….. so i felt really stupid for not being able to check that i have used 20 cards…. and consequently giving my opponent the advantage that he needed to win that draft……..

Not saying that they SHOULDN’T change it, just saying the possibility of a deck that’s less than 20 cards is low, but possible. For example, if you get crap cards and are forced to use a common, you might not use it because holding a junk card in your hand for half the game is worse than 1 hp loss. Anyway, if you agree with the fact that it’s POSSIBLE, than it’s a waste of time to reply with more reasons why it’s unlikely. I’m adamant on the fact that it’s possible, and that adding a warning is better.

Responding to the SoD argument, SoD has 3 attack, so it will only banish 2 when Sent on Sent, and with decent cards a Sin will be destroyed by a NotG deck unless they get SoD early (highly unlikely). High Magic banish is hard – the only one I know of has a survivor 10 req, so it’s hard to survive to that point, hard to draw, and not super likely to be gotten in a pack. Both still only have a low chance of breaking the cycle anyway – you must get Alch when NotG is banished, or NotG when alch is depleted, and the NotG is still a heal 5 damage 0-5 if you banish alch from deplete. A small deck is still better with alch, NotG and even 1 or 2 self-banishing cards and a few decentish heals.

you forgot about aristeia…. anyway, i said before that even when you get alchemist and notg, most people will still use 20 cards because it is much safer than relying on only 10 cards (there is a possibilty that notg is the last card and you draw it, or notg getting depleted first in the game, which happens to potions and talismans many times in drafts)….

finally, you say SOD only deals 2 dmg when sent on sent, but that is assuming that it is not backed up with other cards (such as arthur bane, arrow of attraction, got my mark, stop that spectre, and also by a potion (pot of slaying, zombie juice, spinach and talisman (lyria quiver if you are extremely lucky))… therefore, i dont think anybody will risk it by using only 10 cards….. since amongst the 10 cards it will be 1 for potion (notg), 1 for alchemist, 1 for talisman, and either another 2 for npc and 5 for attacks or 7 attack cards……

anyway, this situation has extremely low chance of happening as getting notg and alchemist in the same draft is almost impossible due to the fact that alchemist has been taken out of gold and silver packs (only can get him from draft pack? or crafting)…….and most people will probably choose the alchemist when they see him since he gives 2 shields as well as healing a potion when depleted (extremely useful when you get luminous libation or vamp blood for pyrelord)….. therefore, people will use 20 cards even if they get notg anyway….. so it is better to make it so that for drafts, you get the option to confirm your card choices after saving the deck……

In conclusion, the choice of using lesser than 20 cards in draft is redundant because the player will still use 20 cards anyway (even if they have to use common cards to make up for it) since you cant make a cycle in draft, and having more cards is better in draft since the strength of each player is based on the cards gotten (which mostly comprises of rare or below)…. therefore, the probability of getting killed in 1 blow is lesser if you use the maximum number of cards….

 
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While all this arguing about whether or not people would use the max or less than max, and ive used 19-18 cards many times strategically in drafts(who wants to put in too many a dead draws? Looking at 0-1 shield weps/ extra npcs and such as a pyre) I’m assuming anyone that can read this much material and cares this much about your deck size would check before you click ready o.o I mean it does have the number right there…

And as for the problem the topic starter originally stated, adding 1 more card to a deck would mean a difference in hands, which means a difference in played cards and damage thus theres no guarantee that having added that one last card would’ve fixed your problem, it could’ve made it worse.

Also there is the possibility of going back and changing your deck if the rest of the people in the draft havent readied up yet(just add/subtract/change and click save), so you still have a chance there as well unless your the last person, which would mean you took a while designing your deck in the first place before you hit save… or you went afk and thats your fault then >.>

 
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See, if Silent read my post, he’d realize I’d STOP ARGUING if he said “Yeah, it’s possible.”.

But now I’m gonna reply to HIS post. Quickly.

Other people have purposefully used the strategy of less cards. The reason why is because a blank is worse than a loss of one card, especially when your strategy is to take a lot of damage but deal even more (Sin and high damage Pyre). Also, there are many shield cards you can put up to complement your NotG/alch, but you seem adamant on that, and I’m only saying this in the rare case that you IGNORE the part below.

I AGREE that they should change it, make it a confirmation. If you read my whole post you’d realize that. But the fact is, most people don’t do that on accident (1 of 4 have a chance of it happening, there is a confirmation before saving, and there’s a counter very nearby). All I’m saying is that forcing 20 card decks is just as bad or worse than not confirming 20 cards. Which you basically agreed with originally. Any arguing you do only says “I think it’s impossible for this to happen”.

 
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Originally posted by r2d2go:

See, if Silent read my post, he’d realize I’d STOP ARGUING if he said “Yeah, it’s possible.”.

But now I’m gonna reply to HIS post. Quickly.

Other people have purposefully used the strategy of less cards. The reason why is because a blank is worse than a loss of one card, especially when your strategy is to take a lot of damage but deal even more (Sin and high damage Pyre). Also, there are many shield cards you can put up to complement your NotG/alch, but you seem adamant on that, and I’m only saying this in the rare case that you IGNORE the part below.

I AGREE that they should change it, make it a confirmation. If you read my whole post you’d realize that. But the fact is, most people don’t do that on accident (1 of 4 have a chance of it happening, there is a confirmation before saving, and there’s a counter very nearby). All I’m saying is that forcing 20 card decks is just as bad or worse than not confirming 20 cards. Which you basically agreed with originally. Any arguing you do only says “I think it’s impossible for this to happen”.

Yeah, that is what i said, i dont know why you are arguing with me for the same point: make a confirmation button so that people can double-check their cards choices in draft

the reason why i said that it is redundant is because i have never seen anyone used only 10 cards in draft (LOL)

Originally posted by iamtehsmart:

While all this arguing about whether or not people would use the max or less than max, and ive used 19-18 cards many times strategically in drafts(who wants to put in too many a dead draws? Looking at 0-1 shield weps/ extra npcs and such as a pyre) I’m assuming anyone that can read this much material and cares this much about your deck size would check before you click ready o.o I mean it does have the number right there…

And as for the problem the topic starter originally stated, adding 1 more card to a deck would mean a difference in hands, which means a difference in played cards and damage thus theres no guarantee that having added that one last card would’ve fixed your problem, it could’ve made it worse.

Also there is the possibility of going back and changing your deck if the rest of the people in the draft havent readied up yet(just add/subtract/change and click save), so you still have a chance there as well unless your the last person, which would mean you took a while designing your deck in the first place before you hit save… or you went afk and thats your fault then >.>

I dont see why people would be forced to use lots of 0-1 common cards….. if you choose your cards properly during draft packs selections, you should have approximately 9 good cards from draft packs, and then you also have 15 cards (uncommon and rare) from gold packs….. during all rare draft week, you get 15 good cards from draft packs and another 15 from gold packs, which is more than enough for a deck of 20 cards…… the only situation when people actually may use lots of 0-1 common cards is only when they are not focused during the draft selection (have a change of heart (ie from sentinel to pyrelord) in the middle of selecting cards from draft packs)….. which is a failure in their part (mostly happen to those new to drafting)….. therefore, using a common card is rare in drafting as most people should have 20 decent cards for drafting, except if the common card has an extra effect (such as pyre or bastion). Only in rare cases when you have no luck with the gold packs (got lots of potions and talismans from gold packs or the gold packs consist of mostly weapon when you are pyrelord or magic when you are sent or sin), people in draft may use a common card without any special effect….. even so, in those cases they only need 1 or 2 cards to reach 20 cards deck size; the common cards are used for extra hp (just let it lodge in hand if it is ever drawn)

 
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anyway, lets proof it rather than just talk all day, we should choose a time for drafting…… i will use 20 cards and you guys use 10 cards…… lets see who will win (LOL)

btw, this is a joke, but if you are really serious about being able to win in draft with only 10 cards, then lets do it xD

 
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You’re double posting again =P but besides that, how so can you assure you have 9 good cards by choosing wisely? Maybe its just me, but usually id say only the 1st 2 choices per pack can guarantee good cards, by the time its the 3rd choice of any pack, most of the useful cards would be gone so id say 6-8 would be for a normal draft (Whoever said ANYTHING about all rare drafting?) and even then the number varies for truly good cards and i have been in situations where I start off going pyre in my first pack with 3+ good pulls, and then end up with nothing but mele choices for the next 2 packs as well. So not just drafting nublets can make a mistake in the beginning of draft.

And I honestly dont think anyone ever will use a deck with 10 cards in it, even in odd circumstances (sorry r2d2go). I always try to draft with the maximum cards possible, but when I have the choice between putting in a 5/0 mele, 4/0 mele,1/1 mele or magic as a pyre Id much rather use 18-19 cards and draw something useful than risking a dead draw and being forced to play something I could’ve set up a bit for (waiting for less shield, waiting for more cards in deplete).

And just to let you know there is a conformation message before you completely ready up. When you click ready, the conformation message pops up, and it doesn’t cover your card count, that should be your chance to say hey it says 19/20 instead of 20/20, not to mention your card count is directly under your ready button. Ignorance is ignorance, don’t try to put the blame on the devs (and make them recode a whole section of the draft) for making a mistake of you not thinking, in a card game where thinking and a bit of luck is everything.

Also you never did make any kind of comment on the fact that you could’ve screwed up your games completely by adding in an extra card to your deck (unless of course you managed not to deplete/draw that specific card over the course of 5+ games which is insanely unlikely [especially the last game where you depleted your whole deck], because the second you deplete/draw that card you change the rest of the cards you draw for the entire duel from that point on.)

 
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I think I’ll argue a 10 card deck because it’s a nice thought exercise.

Lets say you see NotG, and are like “Hells yes, I want it!”. Then you get passed an alch (because there was some incredible legend in the pack, this will come back later). Again, “Hells yes!”. Now, noticing some hybrid (decent abs and atk) cards, and some heals, you snatch up the opportunity. You also take any banish, buffing and banish on play/deplete cards so that you can cycle better and prevent enemies from breaking it. Now, the other people have a pretty low chance of getting off any sort of banish combo, because they’d have to draw TWO cards, both types of which you have been taking. You also use shields to ward off any lone banishes but still (sometimes) deal damage, while occasionally healing. with, say 2 Pillar of Light 2 Lum. Lance 2 GG 2 Healing Light (I’ve actually seen this before in an opponent, or something very close – they might have healed some of the cards and re-played them). Bam. 10 card deck, some flexibility, great durability, great damage output because you don’t put bad stuff in, and I’m ignoring improbability. Now, counter-arguing against a 20 card deck, lets say you also have 2 SoD, 2 staggering shot, and a Got My Mark from prevention, then from pyre pack average 0-4/0-4 uncs (some of the rare magics came from class packs). Lets say that you also get a bonus from not snatching only cards that help a cycle, bringing that to something like 0-6/0-6 rares for half of em. Yes, I’m pretty sure that 5 good ranged cards aren’t going to beat 8 awesome ones.

Calculation Time!!!!!

10 card deck: Average drawn card: Heal 14/9, damage 20/9, shields 20/9. Yes, this is ignoring various opponent stuff. Also heals 5 or 1 many times, but I gave up on calculating that because this deck pwns so hard.
Assuming, say, 6 (2.5 wep/mag, 3.5 damage) total attack on meaningful attacks per turn on average, with 1/2 meaningful attacks, you take 2 damage half the time, but heal much more than that due to NotG and good heals. Lets also say you have total 6 (3 damage 3 magic) damage, and they have 4 (2.5/1.5) total shield on attacks and 6 total (2.5/3.5) on walls.
Again, approximate, but this deck still pwns. You also have a ~1/8 chance of dealing, say 1 damage on average from depleted cards. So, you deal an extra 1/8 damage over time while staying healed.

20 card deck: Heal: .7, plus NotG probably 2.5 times over the match.
Average Damage: 45/19, pretty much the same, though you get a slight advantage from varied cards and a slight increase overall.
Defense: 45/19, pretty much the same, again.

So, if you use the first one, even if they crit on you, and miraculously get in a banish boosted, they might banish a card or two. Chances are that doesn’t do anything, because if they get NotG you can just heal Alch. If they get alch your extremely high heal concentration will pretty much guarentee victory. Plus the chance of them getting that done before you crush the life out of them is so incredibly low, it’s probably less than getting this set in the first place.

The second is not guarenteed, and you sure as heck won’t destroy them. You only have excellent cards. I recently pulled off 18 damage from Reckless + Bow of the Tullians, and similar combos (some involving GMT, Doom, crits and other such nonesense) exist, and with the incredible legend brought up earlier, the two decks would be pretty even. Someone could feasibly get a Cleric of Reshna and heal it on a Pyre (I’ve done that once and seen that once), pretty much wrecking your chances. While your still pretty sure to win, you have more like a 98% instead of 99.99% chance of winning (that’s just a random high but not incredibly high percent vrs a incredibly high percent),

 
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…posted something pretty long in reply.. tried to fix a few numbers.. and it deleted everything but a quote from the cycling mechanic thread.. >.> regardless my main points were:

1)Arestia can easily screw your deck without the worry (on top of him seemingly being a pretty common rare)

2)your assuming quite a bit with 6 rares on top of NoTG and alch that most of the time are… quite rare

3)If your opponent is smart they can work with exact damage to finish your deck (Even at the beginning all they’d need is 7 damage for a 12% chance at an auto win.)

4)An SoD would more than likely do more harm than good with 2-4 damage, a 25%-50% of hitting that one alch and winning, or hitting no alchs and making the deck even better since…

5) “Because a cycle relies on healing an alc every time a GHP is depleted, by adding cards you introduce the chance of this not happening with each cycle. The more cards you add, the more unstable the healing becomes, until the last GHP misses an alc and you deck out.” – Cycling Mechanic thread, Relgar

 
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the fact is for 10 card deck to be a plausible option for draft, we need more cards that is better with small deck size….. (currently you need both alchemist and notg in 1 draft. The chance of that happening is almost impossible!!! (about the same chance as getting 2 legendary in 1 draft))…. (and i definitely prefer getting 2 legendary than 1 alc and 1 notg lol)….

btw, there are lots of cards that can screw up a cycle…. (what if you opponent got katrina and used it to deplete your attack cards) you will be only left with talisman, potion and npc…. if you use only 10 cards, the opponent only need about 3 mc to achieve that…. after which your only choice is to spam alc with notg in hand

 
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Originally posted by SilentXSerene:

the fact is for 10 card deck to be a plausible option for draft, we need more cards that is better with small deck size….. (currently you need both alchemist and notg in 1 draft. The chance of that happening is almost impossible!!! (about the same chance as getting 2 legendary in 1 draft))…. (and i definitely prefer getting 2 legendary than 1 alc and 1 notg lol)….

btw, there are lots of cards that can screw up a cycle…. (what if you opponent got katrina and used it to deplete your attack cards) you will be only left with talisman, potion and npc…. if you use only 10 cards, the opponent only need about 3 mc to achieve that…. after which your only choice is to spam alc with notg in hand

Um… They need 8, the chance is actually a legend and an uncommon, plus many rares, which I have seen many rares twice and legends many, many times, you still are basically guarenteed a win, the cycle is still better than non.

I think this needs to be drilled into your brain:

IF IT IS POSSIBLE, IT IS POSSIBLE, DOESN’T MATTER HOW UNLIKELY

 
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Originally posted by iamtehsmart:

…posted something pretty long in reply.. tried to fix a few numbers.. and it deleted everything but a quote from the cycling mechanic thread.. >.> regardless my main points were:

1)Arestia can easily screw your deck without the worry (on top of him seemingly being a pretty common rare)

2)your assuming quite a bit with 6 rares on top of NoTG and alch that most of the time are… quite rare

3)If your opponent is smart they can work with exact damage to finish your deck (Even at the beginning all they’d need is 7 damage for a 12% chance at an auto win.)

4)An SoD would more than likely do more harm than good with 2-4 damage, a 25%-50% of hitting that one alch and winning, or hitting no alchs and making the deck even better since…

5) “Because a cycle relies on healing an alc every time a GHP is depleted, by adding cards you introduce the chance of this not happening with each cycle. The more cards you add, the more unstable the healing becomes, until the last GHP misses an alc and you deck out.” – Cycling Mechanic thread, Relgar

Double posting because it’s 2 separate people.

1. Arestia is still a rare, you’d grab it if seen, it’s not very good unless you are against that deck so it would likely be passed.

2. I’m saying a POSSIBLE situation where a 10 card deck would be optimal. The possibility of it happening is irrelevant unless the possibility is 0.

3. You need much more than 7 damage, seeing as the deck is 10 cards, and has healing. You’d heal AT LEAST 6 (1st is NotG. 1 from alch, then deplete until alch +5 others are there, then heal all but alch) so the minimum damage to kill is 8 banish or 14 regular (Inc. cards in hand), and both are incredibly unlikely (both occurance, and chance of getting the right cards for regular). Every time you heal an alch (which is pretty easy because NotG either cycles or guarentees alch healing (in fact, with a max 7 card depletion pile, NotG has a 5/7 chance of cycling).

4. You basically have constant, good shielding (4/5), and unless the opponent is some sort of insane sin who somehow knew you are cycling, you would NEED buffs to do ANY damage, and with your card picking tactics, the chance of the drawing the 2 cards needed is very low. You can always throw up a Pillar if they have a buff, anyway.

5. I know it’s not stable. Healing makes it pretty awesome though.

POINT IS, the “cycle” is better than the non-cycle. That’s the ONLY important point, and unless you have something against that, then you (probably) agree with me. I’m not saying you should try 10 card decks, I’m saying it’s possible.

 
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Originally posted by r2d2go:
Originally posted by SilentXSerene:

the fact is for 10 card deck to be a plausible option for draft, we need more cards that is better with small deck size….. (currently you need both alchemist and notg in 1 draft. The chance of that happening is almost impossible!!! (about the same chance as getting 2 legendary in 1 draft))…. (and i definitely prefer getting 2 legendary than 1 alc and 1 notg lol)….

btw, there are lots of cards that can screw up a cycle…. (what if you opponent got katrina and used it to deplete your attack cards) you will be only left with talisman, potion and npc…. if you use only 10 cards, the opponent only need about 3 mc to achieve that…. after which your only choice is to spam alc with notg in hand

Um… They need 8, the chance is actually a legend and an uncommon, plus many rares, which I have seen many rares twice and legends many, many times, you still are basically guarenteed a win, the cycle is still better than non.

I think this needs to be drilled into your brain:

IF IT IS POSSIBLE, IT IS POSSIBLE, DOESN’T MATTER HOW UNLIKELY

the reason that i said it is similar to the chance of getting 2 legend is because people will take him when they see an alchemist. So, the only way to get an notg and an alchemist is if you get both in your own draft pack, or the other people get a legend/epic in their draft pack so that he passed it to you….. (if he only gets gmt or my round you are still safe, but if he gets card such as boulder bombardment, you may die easily with only 10 cards)….. furthermore, choosing alchemist also reduce the amount of rare cards that you get from draft packs by 1……. assuming there are at least 1 rare in each draft pack (which is the most common in non-rare draft week), you only have 1 rare from draft pack, and a maximum of 3 more rares from gold packs…..therefore, you have at max 1 notg, 1 alc, 4 rares, and 4 uncommon/common…… (this is assuming you can use most of the cards from gold packs….. (i experienced once getting 5 potions and 3 talismans from gold packs…. i was doomed to fail that day since on top of that i am using pyre, and i got 3 emerald and ivory from gold pack….. since i have chosen a talisman and pot amongst the draft packs, i could only use about 4 uncommon cards from gold packs….)