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Galaxy Merger Abuse

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From what has been conveyed to me, this has happened earlier this week too, but since I wasn’t here then, I can neither confirm nor deny it.
However, since people warned me it could be happening again, I’m inclined to believe the people that said it did. Cause how can you know something could happen again, unless it has happened before.

Now here’s what happened tonight:
Pillar: Nitemare
Galaxy: g954
Only member: warax

G954 was deliberately merged into another galaxy (g822) while NM was shortly out of protection and everyone hitting it, to annoy the crap out everyone hitting it.
I believe that G911, who is currently holding nm, might be complicit in this abuse, as they claimed the pillar mere moment after it went unoccupied, while everyone that was hitting the pillar got kicked from the server.
The person doing this must think it’s terribly funny, but I – and everyone else spending the ap to hit it – are thoroughly not amused. We are deliberately being goaded into wasting our AP and denied the rewards it should give. And we can’t just not hit it, because who is to know that they’ll merge it when the major galaxies aren’t fooled into hitting it, they might just let it stand there for hours until everyone gives in and then still merge into another galaxy.

And no this isn’t an innocent prank, it is deliberate abuse of the merging of galaxies in order to disadvantage a large group of other players.

Therefore I posit that the culprit be banned on all his accounts, not only the alt(s) he’s using to pull this off, but also the main account. On top of that, this abuse should be reported to Kongregate, so they can decide if the entire Kongregate account(s) should be banned or not.
People claim to know the main account holder of this warax character, but as I don’t know, I wont post it here. If Playmage wants to know, he can send me a private message on kong.


Edit:
After looking at the bugs thread, it’s clear this isn’t the first time it happened, as the same happened yesterday, by the same person. It is claimed there it was only an experiment, this could be believable if it would’ve stopped there. However as it’s happened again today, this isn’t a mere experiment, it’s abusing a possible flaw in the system.
IMHO, what happened yesterday should’ve already never happened, if people suspect a problem, they report it to the game developers, they don’t go out there trying to break things.

 
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abz329 = warax

 
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I agree, I am what is known in TW as a golder, I spent gold on 4 15-minute speedups so my MS on 4 planets would complete in time for that pillar. Then I got 5 hits in before whatever cheap exploit was used. No 3000 coupons (am in g8 and we usually get 1st and were 1st when the pillar was unfairly captured)… didn’t get to use my full AP… lost ships, wasted gold….
I sent a message to playmage and I’m expecting to get refunded at least the gold. This exploit does require attention.

 
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http://www.kongregate.com/forums/111-time-world/topics/309534-hello-pm
there abz tell you all :)
ye i hope you get gold back but dont loose sleep over it ;)

 
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For the purposes of consistency: http://www.kongregate.com/forums/111-time-world/topics/242817-what-the-otis-pillar?page=1

I didn’t see any pitchfork raising about this from you but whatever, we understand you’re only going to speak out when it’s not your ‘allies’ or whatever label you’d like to apply to them. Sure what he did was obnoxious but the fact is it’s up to PM to take a stance about this and actually say it’s something unintended which I’m sure will get him to stop.

In fact the best part is how your post seems to justify this jumping that wastes people effort, while what the person who is doing this jumping isn’t doing something terribly amusing to any degree (as in, I’d support patching this), I think for the purposes of consistency and the fact nothing has been said makes it problematic.

Oh and that time where a bunch of people exploited the MF bug to level their heroes, again no action taken.

 
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We will soon patch the server so galaxy with pillars cannot merge into another galaxy.

What is bit concerning is how is a single player in chapter 8 managed to claim 2 pillars and whether there is actually other cheating involved. If we can gather actual evidences of cheating and alt-collaboration involved in this matter, then the warax and all his alts will like to receive a permanent ban.

 
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must say your a slick man that answer is just so in my face it`s sick… if cheating???? wtf man have you gone blind or just messing with me now?? well hope kong answers me atleast! couse you man are only after my $$$ and no more you get..
and there is only 1 thing concerning me and that is you and your lies! this game feels rigged fail% is a joke and your lies about it takes average 20 books on high lvl skills is nothing but lies or show proof… messing drop rates too lose more players was best thing done after expansion..

Originally posted by dirtyer:

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/111-time-world/topics/309534-hello-pm
there abz tell you all :)
ye i hope you get gold back but dont loose sleep over it ;)

 
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Originally posted by waraxe:

For the purposes of consistency: http://www.kongregate.com/forums/111-time-world/topics/242817-what-the-otis-pillar?page=1

I didn’t see any pitchfork raising about this from you but whatever, we understand you’re only going to speak out when it’s not your ‘allies’ or whatever label you’d like to apply to them. Sure what he did was obnoxious but the fact is it’s up to PM to take a stance about this and actually say it’s something unintended which I’m sure will get him to stop.

In fact the best part is how your post seems to justify this jumping that wastes people effort, while what the person who is doing this jumping isn’t doing something terribly amusing to any degree (as in, I’d support patching this), I think for the purposes of consistency and the fact nothing has been said makes it problematic.

Oh and that time where a bunch of people exploited the MF bug to level their heroes, again no action taken.

done by an alt 2 times? if not is there a point waraxe? 1 year old lol… or just too save your vices back side?

 
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Originally posted by dirtyer:
Originally posted by waraxe:

For the purposes of consistency: http://www.kongregate.com/forums/111-time-world/topics/242817-what-the-otis-pillar?page=1

I didn’t see any pitchfork raising about this from you but whatever, we understand you’re only going to speak out when it’s not your ‘allies’ or whatever label you’d like to apply to them. Sure what he did was obnoxious but the fact is it’s up to PM to take a stance about this and actually say it’s something unintended which I’m sure will get him to stop.

In fact the best part is how your post seems to justify this jumping that wastes people effort, while what the person who is doing this jumping isn’t doing something terribly amusing to any degree (as in, I’d support patching this), I think for the purposes of consistency and the fact nothing has been said makes it problematic.

Oh and that time where a bunch of people exploited the MF bug to level their heroes, again no action taken.

done by an alt 2 times? if not is there a point waraxe? 1 year old lol… or just too save your vices back side?

I’m addressing an issue of consistency, if jumping pillars to screw people out of coupons is bad then his presence in the thread I linked is a complete mistake. People only advocate certain things when they get a benefit out of it, whereas if there’s nothing in it, they are more than content to sit on the sidelines. Essentially whining is done only to benefit one’s self rather than improve the game.

Again, let me emphasize the fact I’m not defending abz’s actions in any way, shape or form. I’m not condoning this action as beneficial for the game by any means. However, I am calling for some degree of rationality before taking action and to highlight a huge degree of hypocrisy that underlies the way with which we approach things which is summed up by “we take actions in the name of greed”. Look above for more details on that.

Regarding rationality however, it’s an issue separate from Atomslaya’s hypocrisy regarding the issue of coupon denial and my stance regarding the issue (which is wholly irrelevant as it’s not what I’m contesting). It’s that the ban is not sufficiently justifiable as none of the rules highlight this as a reason to be banned, while it is a bad game mechanic, by no reason should someone getting banned for it, only if there has been something explicated to prevent this behavior. While it’s likely to be considered childish, there’s a distinction between that and banworthy which you need to note.

So let’s go back to the main point, I’m not sure what assumption he is going off that it should become banworthy as there was no account interaction nor referral abuse so it’s hinging on this loose idea of abusive without clearly defined boundaries, what constitutes abuse, perhaps a long time ago several accounts abusing of the MF to level their heroes to 60? Certainly things are unfair but we haven’t seen any consistency regarding this to warrant a ban and so to do so in this case is foolish and unwarranted.

The only possible abuse that can be weighted is this idea that G911 is actually “complicit in this abuse” because otherwise you’re pulling at loose straws. If indeed both galaxies are operated by the same person then there is real abuse, otherwise you’re operating under a flawed basis that nobody can predict justifying any bans under the pretext of abuse (which is really just something to serve your own personal agenda).

Until you can actually pull out stuff without operating under loosely pulled together assumptions, don’t pitchfork everything in an attempt to get what you want. If we operate under the assumption that Tommeke/Atomslaya’s post is reasonable then there’s a huge list of people waiting to get banned, until we actually see some degree of reciprocity abz shouldn’t get banned unless his alts are indeed interacting in the sense of throwing pillars between each other, otherwise it’s just foolishness that was addressed sufficiently by a patch.

 
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Originally posted by waraxe:

For the purposes of consistency: http://www.kongregate.com/forums/111-time-world/topics/242817-what-the-otis-pillar?page=1

I didn’t see any pitchfork raising about this from you but whatever, we understand you’re only going to speak out when it’s not your ‘allies’ or whatever label you’d like to apply to them. Sure what he did was obnoxious but the fact is it’s up to PM to take a stance about this and actually say it’s something unintended which I’m sure will get him to stop.

In fact the best part is how your post seems to justify this jumping that wastes people effort, while what the person who is doing this jumping isn’t doing something terribly amusing to any degree (as in, I’d support patching this), I think for the purposes of consistency and the fact nothing has been said makes it problematic.

Oh and that time where a bunch of people exploited the MF bug to level their heroes, again no action taken.

How is a galaxy that wants to hop to another pillar for whatever reason and does so related in any way to someone deliberately merging galaxies for no possible gain but to disadvantage others.

  • As you can clearly see from my posts in that thread, if you would’ve bothered to read them properly, is that the huge difference between these 2 instances is that g42 had something to gain by moving to another pillar. Whether that gain was substantial to you or not doesn’t matter, they deemed it worthy to lose the coupons they would get from not hopping to claim that pillar.
    They did it for their gain, not someone else’s loss. Yes it’s annoying for the people that got disadvantaged and nowhere did I say they should go unrewarded for their effort.
    Also, nowhere in that topic do I say that what they’re doing should be possible, I stated PM’s opinion on the matter. I even say in my second post that it bugs me that g1 had been doing the same. This particular issue got resolved, iirc, by not having the galaxy that hops get full hp, exactly to prevent this from being worthwhile. PM resolved the problem at hand, so either you can go on ranting about it, or you accept the ruling and move on.
  • What warax/abz did wasn’t for any gain, all it did was screw people over. As I said before, if you feel there’s a problem, you first address the developers, if they don’t respond within a reasonable time frame, then you can MAYBE show them it’s a real problem.

If you can’t see the difference between the two, that is your problem, not mine. One is using a feature they think is allowed, the other is deliberately abusing a feature exactly to prove it shouldn’t be possible, knowing full well what he is doing is wrong.

ps. I’m not talking about alt abuse, I’m talking about galaxy merger abuse (you know, as the titel of the topic sort of indicates). However, if punishment is deemed necessary, it’s no point punishing the alt, as it has nothing to lose, you can just make a new one in seconds. You need to punish the main account.

 
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Originally posted by Atomslaya:
Originally posted by waraxe:

For the purposes of consistency: http://www.kongregate.com/forums/111-time-world/topics/242817-what-the-otis-pillar?page=1

I didn’t see any pitchfork raising about this from you but whatever, we understand you’re only going to speak out when it’s not your ‘allies’ or whatever label you’d like to apply to them. Sure what he did was obnoxious but the fact is it’s up to PM to take a stance about this and actually say it’s something unintended which I’m sure will get him to stop.

In fact the best part is how your post seems to justify this jumping that wastes people effort, while what the person who is doing this jumping isn’t doing something terribly amusing to any degree (as in, I’d support patching this), I think for the purposes of consistency and the fact nothing has been said makes it problematic.

Oh and that time where a bunch of people exploited the MF bug to level their heroes, again no action taken.

How is a galaxy that wants to hop to another pillar for whatever reason and does so related in any way to someone deliberately merging galaxies for no possible gain but to disadvantage others.
As you can clearly see from my posts in that thread, if you would’ve bothered to read them properly, is that the huge difference between these 2 instances is that g42 had something to gain by moving to another pillar. Whether that gain was substantial to you or not doesn’t matter, they deemed it worthy to lose the coupons they would get from not hopping to claim that pillar. They did it for their gain, not someone else’s loss. Yes it’s annoying for the people that got disadvantaged and nowhere did I say they should go unrewarded for their effort.
What warax/abz did wasn’t for any gain, all it did was screw people over.

If you can’t see the difference between the two, that is your problem, not mine.

ps. I’m not talking about alt abuse, I’m talking about galaxy merger abuse (you know, as the titel of the topic sort of indicates). However, if punishment is deemed necessary, it’s no point punishing the alt, as it has nothing to lose, you can just make a new one in seconds. You need to punish the main account.

If he gets a kick out of it, I don’t see why it’s not “beneficial” to him in any way. The only distinction between G42 and abz’s stunts by your own admittance is that there’s some level of benefit for the actor, as long as there’s a chance he got some benefit of it, like getting a kick out of it, then there’s no actual distinction beside the fact that you’re selectively getting angry. We play games to have fun, and while it is a moral black hole to some degree, there’s still the fact there’s a little benefit to him albeit at a stupid costs for others.

There is no effective difference besides the fact you’re getting selectively angry, until you can prove (100%) that abz doesn’t get something out of this, then you don’t really prove anything besides your own hypocrisy.

Anyway here’s a nice line on the whole thing: “Always claiming to be the victim…is really starting to make you look like a whiner.” – Atomslaya. Or nicely summarized like “Cry more about your lost coupons”, maybe you didn’t directly state you support zero compensation but it’s fairly heavily implied.

On the third paragraph, some more unsubstantiated garbage at best, it just reifies what I’ve been saying the whole time. You cry with this idea of abuse that isn’t concrete nor able to be substantiated. Before you jump to the word ‘ban’ you have to answer various questions which I’ve stated in my first post.

Until you manage to give me a good reason he should be banned (that isn’t a QQ about him stealing your coupons or rather not giving them in general) then quit posting. So to make this easy on you I’ll give you a basic list of things you should answer before saying the word punish or ban.

A) Precedence, has any abusive manipulation of game mechanics been done in the past (e.g. building MFs to fast track level, jumping pillars to screw over others)? If so, what does this entail as a fair action?

B) Actual rules, especially since you’ve conceded the issue of no alt abuse, then you’re running off absolutely nothing. Point me some actual rules that warrant a ban instead of crying about abuse. There were a ton of instances of abuse, none of which punished by a ban.

These are two major points which you need to establish before making a post like the two above. Also, preemptively, even if PM’s recent patch proves that this was unintended does not make it a banworthy issue because what one is allowed to get banned for should be known otherwise justifying all bans with a pretext of abuse or some other vague reason that isn’t explicated properly. That’s like arresting someone for violating a rule never written which is completely stupid for a large variety of reasons. Again, even if you manage to establish you aren’t a hypocrite doesn’t make me less correct about this issue. You’re hugely overreacting and in the end you post can be summed up as “QQ”.

 
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might wanna reread my statements, I rephrased them while you were typing your response to make my point more clearly

The difference isn’t so much in the gain, it’s the fact one might have slighltly suspected what he was doing wasn’t 100% ok, but since g1 had been doing it without recourse, it apparently wasn’t really an issue.
However the other knew full well what he was doing was wrong and repeatedly did it, just to be annoying and to prove it is a problem.

Concerning the MF issue, there was no way to tell who had been deliberately abusing the system and who hadn’t even noticed what was happening, but was just building MF’s, you can’t go punishing everyone because a few might have been abusing the system.
Here it is clear who was abusing and who wasn’t.
Also, there most (if not all) of the people who had unfairly leveled their heroes, knowingly or not, had their advantage removed; I’ve yet to see a move to make things right on this one.

 
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I’m making a second post in response to your edit only because it’s a bit painful to reintegrate certain things into the structure of the post and I frankly suck at formatting, also it will help explicate some of other post.

“Whether that gain was substantial to you or not doesn’t matter, they deemed it worthy to lose the coupons they would get from not hopping to claim that pillar.”

This reinforces what I’ve been saying, even if abz gets next to no value out of this, it technically fits under this.

“This particular issue got resolved, iirc, by not having the galaxy that hops get full hp, exactly to prevent this from being worthwhile. PM resolved the problem at hand, so either you can go on ranting about it, or you accept the ruling and move on.”

So did this issue, under this tag, realize you’re condemning yourself. I’m not the one making a giant post crying about it, but rather I’m saying why your posts are garbage in the context of this issue. The fact is, PM did patch it yes, however let me make one thing clear which you can’t seem to get in your head for an inconceivable reason, I DO NOT ADVOCATE ABZ’S ACTIONS, I DO NOT ASSOCIATE MYSELF WITH ACTIONS HE TAKES WITH HIS ALT, and ALL I’M DOING WITH MY POSTS IS SUBSTANTIATING WHY A BAN WOULD BE UNWARRANTED. The fact that PM did not make a move to ban G42 establishes a precedent that abz should not be banned either, get that in your head. The whole entire passage their does not fit with the rest of your post.

“One is using a feature they think is allowed, the other is deliberately abusing a feature exactly to prove it shouldn’t be possible, knowing full well what he is doing is wrong.”

Exactly where did you come up with the fact he knows shouldn’t be possible? Sure it was an experiment the first time possibly, but the second time it could just be used to get a kick out of it, there’s no recognizable form of abuse here where he knows he is doing something that should be banworthy, especially since PM didn’t make any calls regarding this.

 
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Originally posted by Atomslaya:

might wanna reread my statements, I rephrased them while you were typing your response to make my point more clearly

the difference isn’t so much in the gain, it’s the fact one might have slighltly suspected what he was doing wasn’t 100% ok, but since g1 had been doing it without recourse, it apparently wasn’t really an issue
however the other knew full well what he was doing was wrong and repeatedly did it, just to prove it is a problem

also concerning the MF issue, there was no way to tell who had been deliberately abusing the system and who hadn’t even noticed what was happening, but was just building MF’s, you can’t go punishing everyone because a few might have been abusing the system
here it is clear who was abusing and who wasn’t

I don’t advocate G1’s actions either, all I’m responsible for is whatever I decide to do.

Maybe it’s slightly wrong, but this should have been recognizable to galaxies too by the fact someone made a post last time about it.

Yes but the heroes one chooses to build the MFs with and whatever could establish some reasonable frame for who should be banned.

 
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Originally posted by waraxe:

Exactly where did you come up with the fact he knows shouldn’t be possible? Sure it was an experiment the first time possibly, but the second time it could just be used to get a kick out of it, there’s no recognizable form of abuse here where he knows he is doing something that should be banworthy, especially since PM didn’t make any calls regarding this.

Oh please, don’t start with this crap, there is no way abz thought what he was doing wasn’t wrong in the slightest bit. The kick he would get out of it is just the fact it is wrong. Making a pillar “disappear” by (ab)using the galaxy merger function is clearly abuse. If you can tell me with a straight face any normal person wouldn’t think this is abuse, than you sir should go be an actor or a politician.
Yes, PM didn’t comment on it the first time, that doesn’t mean it’s ok. On the other issue PM explicitly said that hopping pillars was allowed, huge difference. To discourage it though, he indeed took action then.
Whether it’s worth a ban, is up to the devs, I merely posit the suggestion I deem it so, since he didn’t just do it once, but repeated the action. If he isn’t banned, he should get a serious warning if he pulls any crap like this again, he’ll get the boot.

ps. I still don’t see why I’m a hypocrite. I didn’t whine about g1 then, I didn’t condemn g42 either. IMHO this is still a completely different matter. If you want to relate the 2, that’s your decision, I think they are 2 completely separate issues.

 
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Originally posted by Atomslaya:
Originally posted by waraxe:

Exactly where did you come up with the fact he knows shouldn’t be possible? Sure it was an experiment the first time possibly, but the second time it could just be used to get a kick out of it, there’s no recognizable form of abuse here where he knows he is doing something that should be banworthy, especially since PM didn’t make any calls regarding this.

Oh please, don’t start with this crap, there is no way abz thought what he was doing wasn’t wrong in the slightest bit. The kick he would get out of it is just the fact it is wrong. Making a pillar “disappear” by (ab)using the galaxy merger function is clearly abuse. If you can tell me with a straight face any normal person wouldn’t think this is abuse, than you sir should go be an actor or a politician.
Yes, PM didn’t comment on it the first time, that doesn’t mean it’s ok. On the other issue PM explicitly said that hopping pillars was allowed, huge difference. To discourage it though, he indeed took action then.
Whether it’s worth a ban, is up to the devs, I merely posit the suggestion I deem it so, since he didn’t just do it once, but repeated the action. If he isn’t banned, he should get a serious warning if he pulls any crap like this again, he’ll get the boot.

ps. I still don’t see why I’m a hypocrite. I didn’t whine about g1 then, I didn’t condemn g42 either. IMHO this is still a completely different matter. If you want to relate the 2, that’s your decision, I think they are 2 completely separate issues.

Getting a kick still correlates to perceived benefits, your refusal to acknowledge the hypocrisy present is equally amusing. Sorry your vague notions of abuse are selective, the whole entire G42 issue there screams abuse if we’re to label this as abuse, but whatever, different notions of what is abusive only serve to establish my argument that no ban is warranted.

So only when explicated do things become permissible? Really? We’re really playing a game where we don’t know what can be done? The whole point is that since there’s no actual code establish, to ban is ridiculous.

Oh yeah, we actually had this rule where you’re only allowed 592 forum posts, so you’re going to get banned about that…

The whole point is I’m arguing a ban is completely unwarranted because no rules besides these supposedly unspoken rules that cover everything unless PM specifically kills them off blocks abz from action. I am arguing that these calls to ban him and what not are completely unfounded, stupid and most importantly entrenched in a form of entitlement that whining will specifically be done only to promote one’s agendas.

In the end it comes down to denying one pillars, there’s a lot of things not responded to that are key. I specifically highlighted two things you would have to establish, both of which you completely brushed aside. Whatever, every community is prone to arbitrary pitchforking in the name of justice and abuse. This pretext is stupid and is actually problematic when used to try and justify action which is why there’s this thread.

 
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No from what I say g42 shouldn’t have been banned. G1 might have been warranted a ban or serious warning. They were doing the hopping long before g42 ever copied the idea. G42 could’ve assumed that since there were no repercussions for g1 doing this, that it indeed was allowed after all.
But here I go, getting dragged into an old discussion that – again – has nothing to do with this one imho.

Next, on your 2 points I need to address:
A) Precedence: Is it right for me to go kill someone if someone else somehow got away with it before? It is not because something else wasn’t punished for some reason that this doesn’t warrant punishment. Yes, it sometimes leads to arbitrary decision made over punishment, but the fault doesn’t lie on punishing the second offender, it lies with not punishing the former.

B) Actual rules: Might wanna go read something about “ex post facto law” aka “retroactive law”. The law cannot be assumed to provide regulation for everything, newly emerging technologies, …. will provide criminals with new ways of doing wrong. If a certain action is deliberately aimed at harming a person or group, it shouldn’t matter whether there is already a specific law in place to prohibit said action. Hacking is a good example of this. Many hackers were retroactively charged and convicted for hacking, even though their actions were performed before any law about the topic was passed or even conceived of.

 
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Originally posted by Atomslaya:

No from what I say g42 shouldn’t have been banned. G1 might have been warranted a ban or serious warning. They were doing the hopping long before g42 ever copied the idea. G42 could’ve assumed that since there were no repercussions for g1 doing this, that it indeed was allowed after all.
But here I go, getting dragged into an old discussion that – again – has nothing to do with this one imho.

The whole suggestion that it is banworthy is stupid from the start. That’s it.

 
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As I said, difference of opinion, it’s up to the devs to decide what (if any) punishment is warranted.

  • ps. Apparently g911 isn’t complicit, they however suspected this would happen, so snatched the pillar before some other alt of whomever could claim nm and try to repeat the same thing today.
  • pps. Someone else apparently did find a form of alt abuse, but since that isn’t what this topic is about, I will not go into detail concerning it here. It’s been reported by said person and we’ll see what PM does with it.
 
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Originally posted by Atomslaya:

As I said, difference of opinion, it’s up to the devs to decide what (if any) punishment is warranted.

Please point out a rule that labels banning. What you’re advocating is banning people off a set of “presumed” rules that nobody knows at all. Tell me how this can possibly be good.

 
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Widespread disadvantages for a large portion of the playerbase through repeated clearly malicious actions should result in a ban. Why i think his actions are clearly malicious has been covered in previous posts, so excuse me if I don’t repeat myself.
Some people apparently even “lost” gold due to this mess. So not just imaginary currency (and a part of their life they’re never getting back :p), but something they actually paid real money for.

 
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Originally posted by Atomslaya:

Widespread disadvantages for a large portion of the playerbase through repeated clearly malicious actions should result in a ban. Why i think his actions are clearly malicious has been covered in previous posts, so excuse me if I don’t repeat myself.
Some people apparently even “lost” gold due to this mess. So not just imaginary currency (and a part of their life they’re never getting back :p), but something they actually paid real money for.

Maybe some people lost gold through the pillar hopping that took place in the past, we’ll never know, the point is sure, you can quantify some loss, but the point is that actions taken in the past may have forced similar things to happen. Also, it may seem like a malicious action to you but this is because of what I’ve described above. Discursively, this idea of the greater good is absolutely stupid because the frame of it being malicious is only being rolled out to justify your rabid pitchforking.

Let’s try it in a different frame, G8’s intake of strong players results in widespread disadvantages for a large portion of the playerbase through repeated clearly malicious first places on pillars that should result in a ban. This is equivalent to what you’re saying but the only reason you aren’t up in arms over it is because you benefit from it and because you have this perceived notion of entitlement and what not that changes when it comes as a surprise rather than something that has been normalized.

The fact is, there a huge number of actions that technically disadvantage portions of the playerbase, sure his actions were stupid but this notion of “disadvantaging the playerbase” is still fairly arbitrary, not written down by the rules and has a precedence actually set against it regarding the use of a ban. Until PM sets rules down, even if abz’s actions are deemed malicious, don’t validate a ban.

Also, funny enough your post was completely non-responsive to my question, so I’ll ask it again. “Please point out a rule that labels banning”. You haven’t been able to indicate anything that proves this warrants a ban.

Preemptively, I don’t advocate the ideas behind the example but am merely employing it as irony.

 
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Wow, I’m not going to read all these new posts, though I’ve read some of them. I lost about 20 gold from what happened but I do not think the player responsible should be banned, though that is about $1-$2 USD I’m out because of what occured. Exploits should be reported and then patched. If an exploit remains in the game too long players will get fed up, quit playing, and that only hurts the game-makers. It isn’t the player’s fault for finding this exploit, it is however the game-maker’s fault for not patching it.
I am firmly against banning players except for repeated racial slurs (or other verbal abuse/harrassment) and for actual hacking. All other cases should merit a warning and maybe a short suspension from the game.

 
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Oh right, a galaxy recruiting the best players they can and abusing the galaxy merging system, almost the same thing, …. right.
Whatever … if that helps you rationalize your vice’s actions, good for you.

 
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Originally posted by jab1432:

Wow, I’m not going to read all these new posts, though I’ve read some of them. I lost about 20 gold from what happened but I do not think the player responsible should be banned, though that is about $1-$2 USD I’m out because of what occured. Exploits should be reported and then patched. If an exploit remains in the game too long players will get fed up, quit playing, and that only hurts the game-makers. It isn’t the player’s fault for finding this exploit, it is however the game-maker’s fault for not patching it.
I am firmly against banning players except for repeated racial slurs (or other verbal abuse/harrassment) and for actual hacking. All other cases should merit a warning and maybe a short suspension from the game.

I believe you should be compensated for what you lost, but I do not believe the player deserves anything in the form of a punishment. At most a warning is due and then some Code of Conduct or creation of rules that are drafted in such a way that punishments are arbitrary and based off ridiculous pitchforking. Banning players without any set rule just leads to arbitrary banning and is clearly bad for multiple reasons. Atomslaya’s inability to actually present rules that prove a ban is warranted is proof the playerbase merely pitchforks whatever their own agenda desires.