[Monsters' Den Chronicles] Evasion should be fixed

34 posts

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ugh…i’ve played this game since it first showed up at armor games, and the game still insists on the same mistake it did before

the second act his just awful…a poorly design level of pain and frustration
all around, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss
its frustrating to see a enemy with a 15, or 20% evade, dodging all shots like it was a 80% evade chance

i have actually lost has a full party to a phantom…a single phantom that evaded all my skills and shots and slowly killed 4 team members without caring

this frustrates me to the point of reloading the game, again, and again every time a crucial part of my combo, like stunning a enemy to use coup, is evaded

the developer should do 1 of 2 things:

1- lower the evade chance to the values that it points out…20 evade should not mean being god like

2- Increase the values of accuracy you get from dexterity…i can level dexterity all i want, but i still miss enemies like i leveled strength

i know they are ghosts and stuff, but such unrealistic values of evasion makes this game anti-fun, and does not make me want to continue playing

 
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There are combinations that make of for high evade chances or miss chances. Skills that always hit and stances that increases hit chance dramatically

 
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Originally posted by sprehn:

There are combinations that make of for high evade chances or miss chances. Skills that always hit and stances that increases hit chance dramatically

but then you are sacrificing dps for something that is usually a standart reliable stat on 99% of the games
i’ve found that only in this game, i must spec almost entirely on accuracy and even then, i can’t reach a cap where there is a 100% hit chance, like there is on wow for example

its anti-fun sacrificing dps for accuracy especially when a low amount of evasion can give you god like status

 
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Originally posted by bafodalho:

its frustrating to see a enemy with a 15, or 20% evade, dodging all shots like it was a 80% evade chance

That would be frustrating, if it actually happened. Fortunately, it doesn’t.

 
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Originally posted by zz1000zz:
Originally posted by bafodalho:

its frustrating to see a enemy with a 15, or 20% evade, dodging all shots like it was a 80% evade chance

That would be frustrating, if it actually happened. Fortunately, it doesn’t.

yes it does, and more than one time
denial is not the answer

 
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Try Thief and “Thief’s Luck” skill, you realy like it.

 
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I’m sorry if this sounds harsh, but losing an entire party to a phantom is just bad strategy. There are ways to improve your accuarcy or hit evading targets, but more importantly there are plenty of defensive ways to prevent dying. I’ve played a party with two rangers and two mages (No active healing) without dying once, on all four acts.
It’s been pointed out that hitting in this game is “true to the statistics”, so is just bad luck your missing, is your bad strategy what’s killing you, not the game.

 
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Originally posted by bafodalho:
Originally posted by sprehn:

There are combinations that make of for high evade chances or miss chances. Skills that always hit and stances that increases hit chance dramatically

but then you are sacrificing dps for something that is usually a standart reliable stat on 99% of the games

its anti-fun sacrificing dps for accuracy especially when a low amount of evasion can give you god like status

Funny. I would have thought, from your comment, that failure to get enough accuracy would be what is “anti-fun.”

DPS is only meaningful once you can be sure you’ll hit, you know. I’m sure you would intuitively realize that skill that did 500 damage but hit 2% of the time would not be worth taking, because the expected average output over time would be 500(.02) = 10 damage. It sounds like you keep forgetting to factor in miss chance in your DPS calculations.

If you really can’t stand missing, just take int-build clerics and Smite everything.

 
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Originally posted by bafodalho:
Originally posted by zz1000zz:
Originally posted by bafodalho:

its frustrating to see a enemy with a 15, or 20% evade, dodging all shots like it was a 80% evade chance

That would be frustrating, if it actually happened. Fortunately, it doesn’t.

yes it does, and more than one time
denial is not the answer

It isn’t denial. It’s a simple observation. This game’s RNG has been tested, extensively, and it doesn’t generate abnormal results. This means anything you’ve seen is an accurate reflection of the displayed values.

Besides, there’s no way to tell a difference in a string of luck with a 80% chance as opposed to a 20% chance. Both odds can generate the exact same strings, so series of observations on its own is meaningless.

 
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Originally posted by moritheil:

If you really can’t stand missing, just take int-build clerics and Smite everything.

Or use Electrocute/Fireball with a Sorcerer. Or Electrocute/Disintegrate with a Conjuror. Or use any Ranger with Marksman. Or use a Champion with Sweeping Strikes. Or use a Thief with Thief’s Luck.

More than half the characters have some solid way of solving accuracy problems.

 
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Electrocute is only useful when enemies have a near-full action gauge. You’re better off just using a low cost spell like Freeze or Incinerate.

 
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Originally posted by craftsman465:

Electrocute is only useful when enemies have a near-full action gauge. You’re better off just using a low cost spell like Freeze or Incinerate.

That would make sense if the entire point being made wasn’t that Electrocute can’t miss.

 
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Thanks for teaching me a new way of being condescending, Zz1000zz, I like your style.

Any way, it is perfectly possible to dodge five times in a row if you have only 20% evasion. This happens. It sucks, but it happens. Which is why I always buff up my accuracy, or use skills that always hit. If you like to take risks, you use epic skills with high failure rate, but if you’re like me, you go with high accuracy.

 
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Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

Thanks for teaching me a new way of being condescending, Zz1000zz, I like your style.

Thanks!

Any way, it is perfectly possible to dodge five times in a row if you have only 20% evasion. This happens. It sucks, but it happens. Which is why I always buff up my accuracy, or use skills that always hit. If you like to take risks, you use epic skills with high failure rate, but if you’re like me, you go with high accuracy.

I generally use attacks which could miss because they have better damage. I save the guaranteed hits for when I’m tired of missing, or when they’ll kill just as effectively. The main thing to me is if I could lose because of a bit of bad luck, I’m doing something wrong. This game has plenty of defensive options, so that shouldn’t ever happen.

 
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zz1000zz
I do not think you understand how probability works
It is totally, entirely possible to miss every single attack that has less then full accuracy from the moment you first open up chronicles
The odds of it are so small (roughly 0.05^x assuming 95% accuracy) that it’s not barely worth calculating, but it’s there

And you can’t just blanket accuracy as a “bit of bad luck” when that bad luck could be anything from a small inconvenience to getting a tpk because you missed a couple of hits on a nexus engine.

and please, don’t try to use the argument “oh, but my level 2billion sparked/tonic’d squad one shots them all anyway”
The game is not balanced at the very high levels, and pretending otherwise is insulting to everyone

“This game has plenty of defensive options, so that shouldn’t ever happen.”
Bosses can oneshot your rear line, and there’s not much you can do to stop it, short of actually trading off damage for survivability

Look, personally, I like the accuracy system. It gives a feel of randomness so that you can’t simply mathcrunch your way through a battle and forces you to react, but calling someone noob because the rng god decided to be an asshat is… incredibly dickish

 
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Originally posted by candylord:

zz1000zz
I do not think you understand how probability works

I’m not sure why you would think this. What you said is exactly in line with my views. Heck, the arguments you sought to preemptively cover are arguments I wouldn’t have offered.

Bosses can oneshot your rear line, and there’s not much you can do to stop it, short of actually trading off damage for survivability

I don’t get what your point is here. You say you can’t stop it short of sacrificing offense for defense. So what? I said the game has plenty of defensive options. One would expect those options to generally come at the cost of offense. The fact my point requires one not use pure-glass cannon builds hardly contradicts anything I said.

Look, personally, I like the accuracy system. It gives a feel of randomness so that you can’t simply mathcrunch your way through a battle and forces you to react, but calling someone noob because the rng god decided to be an asshat is… incredibly dickish

I never called anyone a noob. I didn’t call anyone anything. What are you talking about?

 
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thing is, while in high level, you can pretty much hit everything because you have specd into accuracy, or have high int on a champ with a skill like smite that actually does something useful (low level remember) that doesn’t make you loose something, in this case, the cleric heal (since you have a good mana regen)

on low levels how ever, most dungeons are a thing of hit or die, since the low stat levels don’t let you take advantage of prolonged fights! and that makes you strike again and again without any results, wasting tons of mana in each fight

don’t get me wrong, i have a account on armor games with a +60 party, and i played this game since the time where armor was useless, but i wanted to start playing again on kong, and i noticed something in lower levels that i thought it was fixed by then

 
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I generally use attacks which could miss because they have better damage. I save the guaranteed hits for when I’m tired of missing, or when they’ll kill just as effectively. The main thing to me is if I could lose because of a bit of bad luck, I’m doing something wrong. This game has plenty of defensive options, so that shouldn’t ever happen.

That’s the reason I farm. I have an intrinsic hatred for luck, so with stuff like evasion I never seem to like the results (even if they’re always possible). Farming a bit will get your skills and/or equipment up, which would then allow you to be more relaxed in fights. Of course, it also makes it less challenging. That’s up to each individual. But when I have like 20% to hit on those enemy rogues (forgot their name), I’m really not going to bother using skills that don’t always hit.

 
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Originally posted by bafodalho:

on low levels how ever, most dungeons are a thing of hit or die, since the low stat levels don’t let you take advantage of prolonged fights! and that makes you strike again and again without any results, wasting tons of mana in each fight

Well, lets look at what this game provides for lower levels to avoid ‘5 misses in a row’

  • 20 accuracy land spot – situational
  • Champion – sweeping strikes stance – always hits, +10 accuracy to help you hit if you are debuffed
  • Both clerics – smite – always hits; purify – remove those accuracy debuffs
  • Inquisitor – retribution – always hits, transfer all debuffs to the target etc, great skill to turn the tides of the battle
  • Both mages – electrocute, fireball – always hits; 5 bonus accuracy stance
  • Conjuror – disintegrate – always hits
  • Rogue – 30 accuracy TO EVERYONE, for 6 seconds at half-turn cost.
  • Both rangers – 20 accuracy stance.
  • Marksman – point blank – always hits

yea, its quite surprising that major evasion problem is still not fixed.

 
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Originally posted by freijie:
Originally posted by bafodalho:

on low levels how ever, most dungeons are a thing of hit or die, since the low stat levels don’t let you take advantage of prolonged fights! and that makes you strike again and again without any results, wasting tons of mana in each fight

Well, lets look at what this game provides for lower levels to avoid ‘5 misses in a row’

  • 20 accuracy land spot – situational
  • Champion – sweeping strikes stance – always hits, +10 accuracy to help you hit if you are debuffed
  • Both clerics – smite – always hits; purify – remove those accuracy debuffs
  • Inquisitor – retribution – always hits, transfer all debuffs to the target etc, great skill to turn the tides of the battle
  • Both mages – electrocute, fireball – always hits; 5 bonus accuracy stance
  • Conjuror – disintegrate – always hits
  • Rogue – 30 accuracy TO EVERYONE, for 6 seconds at half-turn cost.
  • Both rangers – 20 accuracy stance.
  • Marksman – point blank – always hits

yea, its quite surprising that major evasion problem is still not fixed.

“thing is, while in high level, you can pretty much hit everything because you have specd into accuracy, or have high int on a champ with a skill like smite that actually does something useful (low level remember) that doesn’t make you loose something, in this case, the cleric heal (since you have a good mana regen)

on low levels how ever, most dungeons are a thing of hit or die, since the low stat levels don’t let you take advantage of prolonged fights! and that makes you strike again and again without any results, wasting tons of mana in each fight"

should have read this

those skills you mentioned do low damage in low levels and make you waste tons of mana for each fight, making it a logistic nightmare…yes you can say “use every skill on a small fight, its all k, because you will hit everything” but there are tons of fights to do, and you are forced to go on auto-attacks from time to time and you will miss tons of strikes

 
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Originally posted by bafodalho:

those skills you mentioned do low damage in low levels and make you waste tons of mana for each fight, making it a logistic nightmare…yes you can say “use every skill on a small fight, its all k, because you will hit everything” but there are tons of fights to do, and you are forced to go on auto-attacks from time to time and you will miss tons of strikes

for starters, re-read. ‘lets look at what this game provides for lower levels
Then check skill descriptions again. Half of those skills are stances, and rogue’s buff is cheap. Its your problem if you cant find a use to such a wide variety of skills.

Also saying that they are low damage is blasphemy, care to name one low-damage skill out of that list? (well, unless you use smite on str\end cleric).

 
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To the topic starter bafodalho. You just said that a “SINGLE” phantom evaded all your skills, and that’s what got you frustrated. Doesn’t what most of the people who replied solve that frustration? I mean, they’re saying that you could have had a party with a cleric, warrior, mage, ranger(any subclass for all of them) and have 3 of them hitting the target with high chances (electrocute, sweeping strikes, smite) even if those attacks deal crappy damage, you’re still hitting the target, since landing a blow on the enemy is your dilemma here. You just said that a SINGLE phantom evaded ALL your attacks. It’s true he has like 20 evade or something, and he uses inexorable, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t land at least ONE of the skills/spells mentioned.

 
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Originally posted by itomnailok:

To the topic starter bafodalho. You just said that a “SINGLE” phantom evaded all your skills, and that’s what got you frustrated. Doesn’t what most of the people who replied solve that frustration? I mean, they’re saying that you could have had a party with a cleric, warrior, mage, ranger(any subclass for all of them) and have 3 of them hitting the target with high chances (electrocute, sweeping strikes, smite) even if those attacks deal crappy damage, you’re still hitting the target, since landing a blow on the enemy is your dilemma here. You just said that a SINGLE phantom evaded ALL your attacks. It’s true he has like 20 evade or something, and he uses inexorable, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t land at least ONE of the skills/spells mentioned.

again logistic issue
wasting all mana on one guy will make the rest of the dungeon pretty hard considering the costs of mana for each fight

 
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Originally posted by bafodalho:
wasting all mana on one guy will make the rest of the dungeon pretty hard considering the costs of mana for each fight

Yes, it costs so much to buy a potion to restore some energy. Or just use the wait command in battle while healing as necessary. It’s not like plenty of us breeze through the game without ever having much of a concern about energy.

 
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Originally posted by zz1000zz:
Originally posted by bafodalho:
wasting all mana on one guy will make the rest of the dungeon pretty hard considering the costs of mana for each fight

Yes, it costs so much to buy a potion to restore some energy. Or just use the wait command in battle while healing as necessary. It’s not like plenty of us breeze through the game without ever having much of a concern about energy.

not everyone plays this game in begginer difficulty ;)
and again you are missing the point…10% evasion acts has at least 50% evasion
the numbers are way wrong and the description are misleading