[Kingdoms CCG] Problems with This Game and How to Fix Them

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This is a continuation of the discussion I had in chat with the developers. I enjoy Kingdoms CCG but there are two things that destroy its long-term viability.

I would like to see Kingdoms CCG become a popular game that people enjoy and play for months, if not years, as opposed to just another CCG that briefly has a few hundred players when Kong badges come out, then fizzles out. (As most CCGs, even good ones, tend to do)

These are the two things, with the first being the most important, that will seriously hurt the game;

1. The pricing model, and associated with it, the difficulty in gaining new cards and constructing new decks.

What I love most about CCGs is PvP. I love building new, interesting decks with a variety of different, cards, heroes, and overall strategies. And then trying it out against players from around the world.

What do I find in Kingdoms CCG? Even after completing the Insane Campaign and becoming 3rd in the beginner arena (which isn’t real PvP), I couldn’t find 40 cards in my deck that didn’t suck to construct a Limited Deck with.

Forget the fact that I had 0 epics (you’re allowed 2) and only 3 rares that were decent (you’re allowed 4), in many instances I didn’t have enough of the Common cards that I wanted!

Here I was, having already invested a solid 8-10 hours into this game, and I didn’t even have enough cards for a SINGLE quality deck in Limited. Not multiple ones, but just one.

Related to this, the game is an example of pay to win.

I was playing a guy in Skirmish. I won 1 game and lost 1. He played terribly. Made tactical mistakes all over the place, his deck had awful synergy, and his hero was all wrong for his play style.

However, what he did have was 5 epics and another 15-20 cards were all Rares. He destroyed me the second time we played and I barely won the first time. Later, he told me he had spent 1000 Kreds on this game, which is a little under $100.

Look, I don’t want to have a massive advantage over someone just because I paid money for this game. It also shouldn’t cost such an absurdly high amount of money to have good decks.

The developers’ response to this was to bring up the example of Magic the Gathering and how good decks there cost hundreds of dollars.

Guys, you aren’t Magic and never will be. Magic the Gathering is one of the most popular, famous games of all time, CCG or otherwise. You’re just another Internet CCG among dozens. If you achieve even 1% percent of Magic’s popularity, you will be an outstanding success.

Speaking of Magic, its founder Richard Garfield created another CCG a few years ago that I dearly love called “Spectromancer”.

In “Spectromancer”, you pay $10-$20 to unlock all the classes. Even without paying money though, your default class of “Holy” is an excellent one which you can challenge anyone in the world with.

Spectromancer has been a popular and thriving online CCG for over 4 years now…

Now THAT is a fair and reasonable pricing model. How do we fix this problem in Kingdoms CG? A few things;

1. Give more cards for Campaign, especially for Hard and Insane. (Which have no card rewards at present)

2. Price your singles for a far more modest number of gems. Related to this, allow us to buy way more gems for a smaller number of Kreds.

If I could unlock most/all of the cards in this game for $15, I would pay that amount happily. So would many other players. But $100+? No way.

3. Lower the gold price on packs and/or increase the number of cards in Packs.

The only thing worse than buying a pack that might not have a single card to improve your deck? Spending a dozen hours in the arena grinding to buy a pack that doesn’t have a single card to improve your deck.

4. Lower the gold price on heroes and don’t make us spend forever to max their abilities.

At 15,000 gold for T2 heroes and 100,000 gold for T3 heroes, not to mention 250+ wins to even come close to fully maxing both, if you spent all your time and gold solely on this (buying no packs or promotional singles), it would take you a YEAR of playing every single day for a few hours to accomplish.

The developers’ argument is that I have only played for a few days and that this stuff takes longer to unlock.

I appreciate this, but if I am already finding this CCG boring because of the problems created by the pricing model and the curse of having to play the exact same deck after 2 days, do you really think I am going to grind for several more months?

Also, I have chatted with people who have in fact played Kingdoms CCG for a few months. Guess what? They’re still missing the vast majority of cards and heroes.

You could say that I could play a different deck any time that I wanted to. But in that case, virtue of my high ranking on both Limited and Beginner PvP, I will lose my matches and not make any in-game gold.

Thus, I won’t be able to buy new packs and hope for enough good cards to make a new deck! It’s a vicious circle. The only hope is to either grind for hundreds of hours and hope to get rewarded for the right packs, or pay $100+.

No thanks.

2. The game is hilariously unbalanced. Oddly enough, this is actually the only reason I continue to play Kingdoms CCG, though.

As mentioned by others, Uuny is a wildly overpowered T2 hero. (And actually, so is Ravinova, the T2 alchemist hero)

However, Uunys is the only thing that gives me a fighting chance against players who have invested way more time and/or money than me and have Epic cards and good Rares.

If not for that, I would grow discouraged at being unable to compete in PvP despite understanding this game so well, and would quit.

Speaking of which, Epic and Rare cards are way too good. Maybe that’s the point, but when they’re unilaterally better than everything else in the game, even the best Uncommons and Commons, that’s a problem.

(It feeds into the pay to win problem of course, since buying those great Epics and Rares costs so many gems.)

It also doesn’t help that the “Standard” arena has few limitations placed on the number of either cards, which will probably lead to a situation where top players who have spent $100+ figure out the best epics and play them. 4 Rejuvenation Potions and a Skybreaker or two? Why not?

If you want to fix this,

1. Tone down the Epic and Rare cards. (they will STILL be a lot better than Common and Uncommon cards)

2. Place a restriction on how many one can have in the Standard arena, since that is the most rewarding one.

There are a lot of specific balance changes that can be done to the Common and Uncommon cards too, but that would make this post go on forever.

The developers told me that their fear is that they don’t want to be a CCG with very few paying players.

Ironically though, by making your prices so high, you’re creating exactly what you want to avoid! If one were allowed to unlock everything for $15, you would have LOTS more paying customers.

And if you could unlock more of the game and cards for free, your overall player base would also grow massively.

One of you guys also mentioned that you wanted to become as popular as “League of Legends”. And yet, their pricing model is the exact opposite of yours. You unlock a great deal of the LoL content without paying anything.

Money doesn’t buy power, like it does in Kingdoms; LoL makes its money primarily from different skins. Purely a cosmetic thing. Now, this might not work or be implemented the same way in a CCG as in a Moba, but you get the point.

Lastly, very few of the paying customer base in LoL invests $100+ into it, and it’s certainly not necessary. Keep in mind that LoL is one of the most popular games on the planet, with millions of regular players, while Kingdoms is, at present, a humble Flash CCG with a few hundred regular players.

Ultimately, remember that players are fickle. You might make a hundred dollars each from a few dozen guys for now, but if the pricing and unlock model continues, the rest will soon grow bored and move on to another game.

After all, there is no shortage of great multiplayer and CCG games out there.

 
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I do take some minor issue with this but this is only my opinion and I greatly respect yours. Thank you for taking the time to not only point out problems but offer valid ways to seemingly fix the problem. My issue is as follows.

You’re suggesting that everyone could pay a flat rate to unlock all of or a majority of the cards, heroes, and features that come along with them. However true it may be that the prices they have in effect are really steep and the balance issues are very clear in pvp, the folks behind this are intending not only to get money out of this now but over time to help continue to fund this game as well as fund future developments. This creates a problem for the survival of this game in the long run too. That model would require players to come across this game constantly and unlock content on a regular basis. In a perfect world that would work however odds are this game will follow in the same trail as almost every other CCG out there. People will surge into the game for a short period and spend lots. At first money would come in rapidly and as a result content would to. But as the bang dies out suddenly funding isn’t there or becomes much less which makes coninuted development more and more difficult and possibly impossible on the financial scale. So to the idea of paying a flat rate to unlock everything I have to object. Like you said the better choices would to be increase the rewards or decrease the cost. People are more inclined to make a purchase if they get a bigger bang for thier buck. Balancing the various cards and allowing the more average player base to obtain better cards a little easier would help them tremendously. And to the people whom do complain about the pay to win model I’d like to say it’s not really pay to win here. It’s more “pay to win faster”, as everything in this game is unlockable through basic gameplay over time….over a long long long long long long long time. Sorry if my opinion or ideas upset anyone I am not trolling just offering my view.
 
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giant wall of text +

Originally posted by FinalSlayer:

The only thing worse than buying a pack that might not have a single card to improve your deck? Spending a dozen hours in the arena grinding to buy a pack that doesn’t have a single card to improve your deck.

loool maybe you should consider that ccgs might not be what you’re looking for then.
To be brutally honest, pretty much every one of your points has no merit.
This game has far less grind than any other ccg out there, spectromancer aside (Hell, if we all wanted to play with the same pool, we’d be playing that game instead of this). You can buy a gold pack after an hour of grind once you throw together a decent deck for limited, which honestly doesn’t take much.

There are a ton of uncs/commons that are staples even at standard level, and tons of rares that are shit.
Most of the epics are combo cards that require a deck built around them to be useful (aside from a few mildly overpowered ones)

As another example of how little you know about the meta: Uunys is strong but fine, Ravi is mediocre; the ele hero is by far and away the dominant hero in t2 and desperately needs a nerf.

It’s nice and all that you’ve put a lot of thought into this, but don’t get the developer’s being nice enough to chat with you about it as signs that your points are valid – anyone who’s actually been playing this game for awhile unlike the people who you supposedly talked to wouldn’t agree on a single one of your points.

On a personal note, I’m sitting in top30 in standard and I haven’t spent a penny more than the starter pack on this game
Of which I haven’t spent a single gem.
Also my 40-card standard deck has 16 uncs and 14 commons because they are just too good to take out.

 
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Originally posted by Puritas:

giant wall of text +

Originally posted by FinalSlayer:

The only thing worse than buying a pack that might not have a single card to improve your deck? Spending a dozen hours in the arena grinding to buy a pack that doesn’t have a single card to improve your deck.


loool maybe you should consider that ccgs might not be what you’re looking for then.
To be brutally honest, pretty much every one of your points has no merit.
This game has far less grind than any other ccg out there, spectromancer aside (Hell, if we all wanted to play with the same pool, we’d be playing that game instead of this). You can buy a gold pack after an hour of grind once you throw together a decent deck for limited, which honestly doesn’t take much.


There are a ton of uncs/commons that are staples even at standard level, and tons of rares that are shit.
Most of the epics are combo cards that require a deck built around them to be useful (aside from a few mildly overpowered ones)


As another example of how little you know about the meta: Uunys is strong but fine, Ravi is mediocre; the ele hero is by far and away the dominant hero in t2 and desperately needs a nerf.


It’s nice and all that you’ve put a lot of thought into this, but don’t get the developer’s being nice enough to chat with you about it as signs that your points are valid – anyone who’s actually been playing this game for awhile unlike the people who you supposedly talked to wouldn’t agree on a single one of your points.


On a personal note, I’m sitting in top30 in standard and I haven’t spent a penny more than the starter pack on this game
Of which I haven’t spent a single gem.
Also my 40-card standard deck has 16 uncs and 14 commons because they are just too good to take out.

If you could stop being a condescending douchebag for two seconds, you would see how foolish your post and approach is.

Clearly, you like Kingdoms CCG. In that case, don’t you want to see the player base grow and people have access to bigger and better decks? Instead, your douchetastic attitude of “fuck off if you don’t like it!” is exactly what leads to a dying community.

Right now, there are (generously) 300 people who play this game regularly past the basic campaign. Of those, a tiny percentage spend money on it. Once the surge from getting badges wears off, with ever-increasing competition from other multiplayers and CCGs, this game will be dead in about 6 months.

I’m talking from experience here, having played a number of other CCGs both better and worse than Kingdoms.

The game is simply too boring, repetitive, and limiting with the amount of cards you have even at the end of Insane Campaign. Unlocking all the good ones takes hundreds if not THOUSANDS of hours or alternatively $100+. No one is going to invest that much time or money unless they really love the game. And how can they love the game if they have to play with the same boring deck? Again, it’s a vicious circle.

While I hate Tyrant (I used to be in two different top 10 guilds, though), at least they did something right in this regard; going through campaign and doing various accomplishments, you CONSTANTLY get card rewards. By the end of the default campaign (prior to the expansions) you had a pretty great deck with a wide variety of builds. Similarly, buying gold packs was much faster there than in Kingdoms CCG.

When a CCG as notoriously price-gouging and grindy as Tyrant has a way better price model and less grind, you know you’re doing something wrong…

 
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The developers’ response to this was to bring up the example of Magic the Gathering and how good decks there cost hundreds of dollars.

I had to stop RIGHT there because I almost fell out of my seat. In M:TG you have other sources to buy cards, PHYSICAL representations of that card, an actual fan-base, WAY more time and effort put into art/balancing, I could go on and on for hours… I think OP had it right, this game will NEVER be MTG and it’s actually a little sad they think they could be.

 
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again you’re just showing how little you know
$100 is nowhere NEAR enough to unlock even a fraction of the cards
People who’re spending that much did so just to buy a couple playsets of epics to fill out their combos

whereas I’ve been playing off and on since launch, and I still get a card every 2-3 days that’s worth building into my deck
Is the gem cost ridiculously pricey as fk here? Yes, but whether it was intentional or not it has the side effect of making it intensely difficult to actually pay to win here – because the availability of gold and lack of restrictions on freemium-only content is unlike any other ccg.
There are less than 5 players in the entire game that I can’t go 50-50 with, and all 5 of those are because of a certain broken T3 hero that they use in conjunction with their expensive cards, not the cards alone.

The people that play this do so because they actually enjoy the gameplay and collecting, and they’re the same names that I can stop back in after a month break and will see them doing the same thing also, because we know that wallet warriors won’t have ruined it by the time we return, and our grinded collection will actually mean something.

It’s quite obvious you’re not a diamond, and there’s nothing wrong with that despite your antagonistic and holier-than-thou approach.
The devs aren’t aiming this game at players like you though, and you’re welcome to sod off back to tyrant

Also it’s not like you’ve had any new ideas here, and they haven’t already been answered, and a lot of us who continue playing this game are much higher ranked at all the other ccgs you mention than you will ever be :)

Learn to use the search function before you generously give indie devs your amazing opinion next time mate
cheers

 
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@loki Google “Magic the gathering online” it’s a valid comparison.

 
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You can build a decent M:TG deck for less than 100$. There are so many cards that you can indeed build more types of decks for the same money you spend on this. And, this game is fricken repetitive. You basically play the same strategy a million times, rather than other games where you might grind, but at least you have hundreds of decks to build and tweak and work on while you’re at it! I played for a day and got pretty bored – you get so little money from beginner PVP and after beating the full campaign I won’t be any good in limited. So basically to get gold I have to grind levels until they’re dust, or pay. I would rather not. Perhaps an extended campaign and a lot more gold/cards from it, and this would be okay. You should be able to PVP for more rewards than grinding campaign by the time you finish any ccg campaign. This game has potential – if the devs would like to change.

EDIT: RANT TIME! So, Puritas is saying that you can grind to win. Ye,s you can but it takes forever! That’s a problem! If you spend 100 bucks on the T3 dude you mentioned + OP unbalanced cards, you have payed to win. You can now frolick about in your top 1 and laugh at the ‘noobs’. Or, you could do a few thousand pvp matches. Lets say you win close to every time, in limited. (Apparently possible by getting good stuff and Uunys). Now lets say you started grinding Limited. You get 200 gold per win, so with a good deck, if the infrequent losses cancel the bonuses you get a flat 200 gold each match. If matches are around 3 minutes, that’s 4000 an hour, which is 25 hours to a T3. Then you’ll want a deck with several epics and many rares. If you want, say 1 of 5 sets 5 specific epics and 20 specific rares it will take around 9-10 epic packs, plus 35-40 golds. That brings you to 362.5 hours of grinding, conservatively. So AFTER you get a good deck, you have to grind for a year at an hour a day, mindlessly, repetitively over an over, until you can get a decent deck. So, it’s “ridiculously pricey as fk here” and you can’t get “a certain broken T3 hero that they use in conjunction with their expensive cards” without either shelling out 100 bucks or grinding a year. Also, what the “fk” was your point when you said it’s a hero + cards, no cards? Seriously? cards cost the same two currencies as heroes at the same overblown prices. The devs seem to be aiming at people with hundreds of dollars or hours to waste on a game, with no fun. Also, it seems after playing since launch (3 months ago) you still have good cards every few days. So if you are a good example of an average player, you have been playing for several months and still are nowhere near maxed. You still can’t beat many players of the tiny player base. So either your cards every 2-3 days point is moot, or there’s a problem with grinding.

My ideas? LOWER THE PRICES. And you know what, Puritas? He did give some ideas, in a full numbered section of his wall of text. While they aren’t new, they haven’t been strongly spoken for on a forum thread. There are better CCG’s out there. He’s trying to do the game, the devs, and players some advice. And he did it in a moderately well mannered way. Unlike some people here.

PS. He did say he hates tyrant.

EDIT: Yay for adding to the numbers of walls of text by showing how wrong people are with facts and calculations!
Also, Elements and Spectromancer are great.

 
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Originally posted by Puritas:


Also it’s not like you’ve had any new ideas here, and they haven’t already been answered, and a lot of us who continue playing this game are much higher ranked at all the other ccgs you mention than you will ever be :)

The rest of your post was stupid, irrelevant, and not even worth answering, but I have to laugh at this.

You do know that I was ranked one of the 10 best players in the world in Spectromancer, a former top 5 player in Kongai, was part of two different top 10 guilds in Tyrant (kfsw destroyers and Iron Fist Sect), AND was a top 50 player in Elements?! I’m not trying to toot my own horn (there were/are MUCH better players than me in all those games) but since you keep proclaiming yourself King Shit of Turd Mountain, and that I “know nothing”, I felt the need to bring up.

Please tell me which of thse CCGs you’re supposedly “better” at than me? Frankly, even after 3 months of playing it and way more cards, I doubt you are better than me at Kingdoms. You would probably lose to me in Limited.

Anyways Puritas, this topic isn’t about you swinging around your e-penis and being a douchebag. Go read r2d2go’s post for an example of a potential player who got discouraged about a pricing model that even YOU admit is flawed.

LokiGodofFire-

While I applaud the developers of Kingdoms for being ambitious, they need to maintain some perspective here. I don’t know if we will EVER see an online CCG that can charge the prices Magic did for physical cards. :)

 
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Wow what a great warrior of the internets
I stand humbled by your mighty achievements

pls jeffo promptly do everything this man says he is the better of us all

 
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I love how people keep comparing this game to Tyrant whereas Tyrant charges you about 25 bucks to get a single Legendary. And of how legendarily painful the grind in faction wars is (as i remember it)

“Guys this game is pay to win because some guy spent hundreds of bucks on it”

Under that logic, every single game is pay to win. If Gold Packs costed 20 dollars in gems, single epics costed 50, and T3 heroes costed a whooping hundred, then It still would be pay to win because some guy can, effectivelly, dump 5k Dollars on this game on some sort of monomaniac sickness.

The Grind in this game is only during the begginer phase, while you build up your card base, how is that strange? You don`t jump to PvP when you are fresh out of the gutter, i can`t think of a single CCG where you will jump to the great leagues, or even the middle leagues just after finishing the campaign. Tyrant? Well hope you picked an Atlas and 3 EMPs on the way out

The `Grind` as you called it was slightly easier before the PvP release, however, it is now easier if you have less time long as you have a decent grip of the meta. Some of the most core cards on the meta are commons and uncommons, rares just round out the strategy of the deck. Firebolt? Eliminates half of the competition. Fleshbag? Core fodder for Uunys. Wonder? Quickdraw fuel and deck thinner extraordinaire. My decks in tyrant consisted of 9 rares and 1 legendary, THAT was the way to go. Once you get a few value Rares, you CAN, and probably SHOULD aim for Silver packs because those are the packs that WILL WIN YOU THE GAME

Epics? Pssh, every game does that, and probably none at the slight scale of this. Sure Rejuve is overpowered and outclasses 3 cards simultaneously, Sure i frown everytime i see Maelstrom Champion hiit the field. DAMN STRAIGHT i hate even thinking on skybreaker, but can you build a deck out of epics? 4 Rejuves, 4 MC, 4 Maelstroms, 4 Fae Tricksters, 4 Blessed Champions, 4 Maelstroms, 4 Atom Crushers, 4 Divine Ress, 4 Scorchblasts and 4 Realm-Sworn Bards WONT GET YOU ANYWHERE AS A DECK. You still need some battle plan, some cohesive strategy, and the cornerstones of your strategy are both your hero and commons

T2s and T3s are grind? Let me put it this way. T2 are nowhere near grind, you can snatch your first relatively early at the modic cost of 15k, train him in a few campaign matches before going to begginer, and be happy. Start learning it, build around it, and then go at the big bad limited and do fairly good.T3s are no-mans land for 2 reasons. One, you block yourself from buying a lot just to reach their price, and 2, they are on the most relentless arena ever. If you think they are OP, and think that pay to win players get too much power here, then Don`t buy T3s. You DONT NEED THEM. You can play in your perfectly (un)balanced limited meta as you call it. You can reach your pilgrimage for a T3 once you are set in your current Arenas, HOW HARD IS THAT?

FinalSlayer, out of the 3 games you named, 2 of them don`t even need you to pay cash and don`t require extensive play, just strategy. While Puritas` approach is trollish, i can`t say that me saying “I`ve played MtG and Yugioh for 7 years” is a flipping argument

Regarding r2d2`s post, YOU DONT NEED TO BE NEAR MAXED to achieve squat. You just need a solid base, and you are set, unless you are a megalomanic collector, you don`t need to have 4 ofs of every rare to succeed. In fact, buying Silver packs now sounds like an investment because, as i mentioned, you need to fill your small niches with UNCOMMONS, not MORE FOIL

 
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I’m very happy with the game, but here are some suggestions that comes to my mind:
1) Make a platform like in Urban Rivals where you can trade and sell/buy single cards from other players.
2) The creatures are too weak when you consider the quality and quantity of removal/sweeper spells. Uunys Frost Nova spell is pretty much a one sided sweeper, Meteor, 1/2 of all T3 heroes has one. So I would suggest to make creatures that aren’t effected by spells and heoes.
3) The balance between the heroes is a little bit off. It’s pretty easy to find out which heroes are overpowered, because the company can simply look at the numbers of heroes that see play in the first few decks.

 
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Originally posted by FinalSlayer:
Guys, you aren’t Magic and never will be.

This, thousand time this. I wish I could scream this in face of every wannabe dev kid who learned some flash and thinks he’s next big thing. MtG costs $3.99 for booster of 15 physical cards that you can sell/trade. And you want $4 for 5 digital, non-tradable ones in game nobody ever heard of? Are you frakking kidding me? $1 tops. Maybe.

Magic the Gathering is one of the most popular, famous games of all time, CCG or otherwise. You’re just another Internet CCG among dozens. If you achieve even 1% percent of Magic’s popularity, you will be an outstanding success.

QFT
Stop behaving like spoiled child and grow up. Wishful thinking and daydreaming will get you nowhere. You’re small game even among Kong CCGs, so stop dreaming about world domination. Try beating Tyrant in popularity first, then we can talk.

If I could unlock most/all of the cards in this game for $15, I would pay that amount happily. So would many other players. But $100+? No way.

Again, QFT. While there are some people who spend triple (or more) digits on flash games, they’re rare and what attracts them most is big crowd. See, they have to justify this spending, and being best out of thousand+ players is much better justification than being best in game nobody ever heard of and barely anyone plays. $10 for one copy of each card in Core, another $10 for Eve – $40 for entire playset of one expansion is 2/3 what Diablo 3 costs, so that’s more realistic approach than your current $44 for 4 copies of one epic.

Lower the gold price on heroes and don’t make us spend forever to max their abilities.

This is the only point where I disagree. Levelling heroes has potential to be fun, as long as it’s not generic “win x battles”. Also, unless some radical change happens, there won’t be any new heroes, so they’re worth several boosters.

The developers’ argument is that I have only played for a few days and that this stuff takes longer to unlock.


Yeah, it’s only 400h worth of energy recharge with 100% win rate in standard arena. Can’t see why anyone would complain about that. :P

2. The game is hilariously unbalanced. Oddly enough, this is actually the only reason I continue to play Kingdoms CCG, though.


Unfortunately I can’t force myself to play OP hero I don’t like just becase it’s only possible way I could compete. I prefer to play games that are, you know, fun.
Speaking of which, Epic and Rare cards are way too good. Maybe that’s the point, but when they’re unilaterally better than everything else in the game, even the best Uncommons and Commons, that’s a problem.

This is actually main reason why I quit. There is absolutely no room for developing new, interesting commons. Look at Eve and amount of bears: Gnomish Brute, Virulent Worshipper, Elvish Warrior, Village Guard. 4 out of 6 kingdoms. Second expansion and they already run out of ideas! This game is pretty much doomed to go same way Tyrant did: majority of all cards will be rare. Why? Because commons are the hardest cards to design But it’s hard to take seriously game where “rare” is most common type of card. It also shows that devs are, much like many other, simply mediocre. They just want to make money of card game without knowledge and skill to make a good one.

1. Tone down the Epic and Rare cards. (they will STILL be a lot better than Common and Uncommon cards)

Won’t happen because they give them most income. I love how they compare themselves to MtG, yet learned nothing from it: whenever WotC releases tournament-worthy mythic rare there is a lot of negative feedback on forums. Look at Kingdoms CCG: most epics fall into one of two categories:
1. Must have: Rejuv, Skybreaker.
2. Better than anything else: Scorchblast Dragon, Maelstorm Champion, Lava Blade, Shadow Dagger (coupled with Goblin Assembly!), list goes on and on.

2. Place a restriction on how many one can have in the Standard arena, since that is the most rewarding one.

There used to be singleton arena, but since major spenders sucked at it and Bahamut + Skygiant was broken combo, they got rid of it. Fun fact: for a moment I thought about giving this game second chance, then I saw only 3 arenas with most rewarding gold-wise being playhouse for wallet warriors.

The developers told me that their fear is that they don’t want to be a CCG with very few paying players.

My guess would be: they’re idiots with no math skills. 10 000 players with 1% paying is much better than 100 players with 20% paying ones. Either that or they don’t understand basic marketing.

One of you guys also mentioned that you wanted to become as popular as “League of Legends”.

This one made me laugh really hard. While I never played LoL, I know it’s good example of game with player-friendly microtransaction system. (source: Extra Credits: Microtransactions) Kingdoms CCG? Exact opposite. Devs seem to be really immature and/or live in some kind of fantasy land if they think that just by wishing they were MtG or LoL they’ll magically become one. Here’s newsflash for you: success comes from actions, not words.

the rest will soon grow bored and move on to another game.

I know I did. Life is too short to spend it on grinding ridiculously small amounts of gold in ridiculously unbalanced game that is mix between MtG and Sword Girls. There is just too much to change to make this game enjoyable. Something along “all gold rewards increased tenfold” and “all uncommons are now commons, all rares are now uncommons and all epics are rare”. But since it won’t happen, this game is lost cause to me. Only positive thing about it? Perfect example of how NOT to make CCG.

Originally posted by GregarFalzar:

I love how people keep comparing this game to Tyrant whereas Tyrant charges you about 25 bucks to get a single Legendary. And of how legendarily painful the grind in faction wars is (as i remember it)

Tyrant charges you $25 for card that:
1. only one of that type can be in deck
2. makes 10% of your deck
3. in all except 2 cases can be obtained from packs with 13% probability
4. there are very few
Compare it to Kingdoms and epic:
1. you can (and should in most cases) have 4 copies of each
2. 4 copies also make 10% of your deck
3. can be obtained with 5% probablity
4. there are a lot of them
So $25 in Tyrant vs $44 in Kingdoms. You feel stupid already?
But wait, it doesn’t end there! Faction wars have nothing to do with anything, they are 100% optional content, missions are much better at gold grind. Only reason I see to bring them up is to show that you have nothing smart to say, so you decide to drag discussion sideways.

“Guys this game is pay to win because some guy spent hundreds of bucks on it”

Under that logic, every single game is pay to win.

You fail hard at trolling, so don’t even bother trying. You either genuinly don’t understand what pay2win means or exaggerate because you’re troll and don’t have any real argument. Here’s game where over 20 people spend $1000 for no advantage at all (since every single thing they can buy is purely cosmetic): www.pathofexile.com

The Grind in this game is only during the begginer phase, while you build up your card base, how is that strange?

Do some math, see how long it actually takes, then we can discuss. Right now you’re only succeding at making fool out of yourself. Unless you genuinly consider hundreds of hours of constant grind “beginner phase”.

You don`t jump to PvP when you are fresh out of the gutter, i can`t think of a single CCG where you will jump to the great leagues, or even the middle leagues just after finishing the campaign. Tyrant? Well hope you picked an Atlas and 3 EMPs on the way out

1. He said he finished campaign on insane mode and became 3rd in first arena. learn2read
Unless you have some special version, that’s pretty much end of game and time for grinding gold with best gold/energy ratio option available.
2. It’s been ages since strike deck was even semi-useful in Tyrant.
3. I don’t see what PvP in Tyrant has to do with PvP in Kingdoms. In Tyrant it’s optional end-game. In Kingdoms it’s most energy efficient (in theory) way to earn gold. Unless they boost gain from missions, your argument is invalid.

Some of the most core cards on the meta are commons and uncommons, rares just round out the strategy of the deck.

No, rares take too long to grind to have 4 copies of useful ones.

can you build a deck out of epics? 4 Rejuves, 4 MC, 4 Maelstroms, 4 Fae Tricksters, 4 Blessed Champions, 4 Maelstroms, 4 Atom Crushers, 4 Divine Ress, 4 Scorchblasts and 4 Realm-Sworn Bards WONT GET YOU ANYWHERE AS A DECK.

Again with this ridiculous exaggeration. How about this deck:
4 Wonders – if you don’t know why free draw is auto include, ask any MtG non-beginner
4 Rejuvs
4 Skybreakers
4 Mana Sprite – since opponent usually has to play some answer (especially early on), it’s basically 2 attack flier for 1 mana
3-4 Aegis Shield – so you can laugh at QDC/Torture
3-4 Maelstrom
0-2 Dimensional Rip
4 Scorchblast Dragons
12 other cards you like, possibly some cannon fodder for Scorch or Golemnify to deal with opponent’s Giant or just more card draw with Study X/Deep Thought. With this I could squash any pathetic “mostly (un)commons, few rares” deck you play. Few combos like 4 Rejuv, 4 Grizzle Beast, 4 Recoil also come to mind. Good luck grinding enough gold to have any realistic chance of obtaining 4 copies of all useful rares and epics.

You still need some battle plan, some cohesive strategy, and the cornerstones of your strategy are both your hero and commons

With deck choke full of rares hero is irrelevant, only quality that matters is that (s)he doesn’t block cards you want to play. The only common worth considering is Wonder, which is auto-include and prime example of bad design.

T3s are no-mans land for 2 reasons. One, you block yourself from buying a lot just to reach their price

Glad we finally agree that pricing in this game is simply wrong and free players are discriminated. You should start with that (and skip rest of your post).

unless you are a megalomanic collector

This is CCG. You know what that means? COLLECTIBLE Card Game. Many people play them for that reason: they love collecting stuff.

you don`t need to have 4 ofs of every rare to succeed

If your definition of success is “auto-lose to every wallet warrior with more than 2 brain cells”, then yes, you don’t need 4 of every rare. If you want to stay on top of standard arena then 4 copies of many rares and epics are required.

 
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It’s nice to see an experienced player disagree without being a condescending douchebag like Puritas was, so I am happy to give GregarFalzar a complete response to his post;

Originally posted by GregarFalzar:

I love how people keep comparing this game to Tyrant whereas Tyrant charges you about 25 bucks to get a single Legendary. And of how legendarily painful the grind in faction wars is (as i remember it)

Indeed, I think Tyrant’s pricing model is absolutely horrible and I hate the game, although I did become very good at it. However, if you read my second post in the topic, my point was that even Tyrants was less grindy, repetitive, and expensive than Kingdoms is. At least there you have a very long campaign which constantly gives card rewards throughout, including Uniques. (The Tyrant version of Epics)

Like I stated before, when your CCG is even worse than Tyrants in terms of unlocks and prices, that’s a huge problem.

Originally posted by GregarFalzar:


“Guys this game is pay to win because some guy spent hundreds of bucks on it”

Under that logic, every single game is pay to win. If Gold Packs costed 20 dollars in gems, single epics costed 50, and T3 heroes costed a whooping hundred, then It still would be pay to win because some guy can, effectivelly, dump 5k Dollars on this game on some sort of monomaniac sickness.

The Grind in this game is only during the begginer phase, while you build up your card base, how is that strange? You don`t jump to PvP when you are fresh out of the gutter, i can`t think of a single CCG where you will jump to the great leagues, or even the middle leagues just after finishing the campaign. Tyrant? Well hope you picked an Atlas and 3 EMPs on the way out

I know you were probably exaggerating to make a point, but this is simply false.

In Tyrants (which again, is HORRIBLE for this stuff), I was a part of a top 10 guild before even completing the Campaign. I was winning PvP duels against the best guilds in the world without having even finished the end of Campaign! And yes, by the end of Campaign, I had Atlas, a ton of Gold (from which I had several EMPs), and a slew of other cards. I actually had a nice choice between a variety of different decks with unique builds and strategies.

Compare this to the barren situation I was in after finishing the INSANE difficulty Campaign in Kingdoms (essentially, going through the Campaign 3 different times); I still didn’t even have enough cards for the most basic of 40-card Limited PVP decks!

Other games like Kongai, Elements, and yes, Spectromancer allow you to compete with the best players in the world after investing the same 8-10 hours I had in Kingdoms, and also play with a variety of interesting and unique decks in the process. (Instead of the same one over and over and over…)

As for the pricing, Spectro costs a whopping $20 for access to all 12 classes (the original 6 plus 2 whole expansion DLCs) and every single feature in the game. Kongai and Elements, from what I recall, were also very cheap in that regard. Even the horrid Tyrants required less grind and/or less money, as of a year ago. (Perhaps it’s different now)

Kingdoms stands alone as either requiring the heaviest time grind or having the most expensive pricing model.

As Seizan_7 noted, the statement that “all multiplayer games” are pay to win is absolutely absurd. I hope this was just some ridiculous hyperbole you posted without thinking twice, as it’s simply foolish and demonstrably wrong for dozens, nay hundreds of multiplayer games.

Also, considering that I finished the Insane Campaign, was 3rd in the Beginner PvP, and 10th in the Limited version two days after beginning Kingdoms, I’m curious when I get past your so-called “beginner phase”? I would argue my understanding of the game and its tactics and strategy is in fact quite good, especially considering I beat the vast majority of 3 month veterans in both Limited and even Skirmish.

Despite this, I should suffer through a year of grinding as a second-class player in Standard Arena because my deck lacks the cards I need?

Uh, no thanks. I will simply play a different CCG instead.

Originally posted by GregarFalzar:


The `Grind` as you called it was slightly easier before the PvP release, however, it is now easier if you have less time long as you have a decent grip of the meta. Some of the most core cards on the meta are commons and uncommons, rares just round out the strategy of the deck. Firebolt? Eliminates half of the competition. Fleshbag? Core fodder for Uunys. Wonder? Quickdraw fuel and deck thinner extraordinaire. My decks in tyrant consisted of 9 rares and 1 legendary, THAT was the way to go. Once you get a few value Rares, you CAN, and probably SHOULD aim for Silver packs because those are the packs that WILL WIN YOU THE GAME

Epics? Pssh, every game does that, and probably none at the slight scale of this. Sure Rejuve is overpowered and outclasses 3 cards simultaneously, Sure i frown everytime i see Maelstrom Champion hiit the field. DAMN STRAIGHT i hate even thinking on skybreaker, but can you build a deck out of epics? 4 Rejuves, 4 MC, 4 Maelstroms, 4 Fae Tricksters, 4 Blessed Champions, 4 Maelstroms, 4 Atom Crushers, 4 Divine Ress, 4 Scorchblasts and 4 Realm-Sworn Bards WONT GET YOU ANYWHERE AS A DECK. You still need some battle plan, some cohesive strategy, and the cornerstones of your strategy are both your hero and commons

T2s and T3s are grind? Let me put it this way. T2 are nowhere near grind, you can snatch your first relatively early at the modic cost of 15k, train him in a few campaign matches before going to begginer, and be happy. Start learning it, build around it, and then go at the big bad limited and do fairly good.T3s are no-mans land for 2 reasons. One, you block yourself from buying a lot just to reach their price, and 2, they are on the most relentless arena ever. If you think they are OP, and think that pay to win players get too much power here, then Don`t buy T3s. You DONT NEED THEM. You can play in your perfectly (un)balanced limited meta as you call it. You can reach your pilgrimage for a T3 once you are set in your current Arenas, HOW HARD IS THAT?

FinalSlayer, out of the 3 games you named, 2 of them don`t even need you to pay cash and don`t require extensive play, just strategy. While Puritas` approach is trollish, i can`t say that me saying “I`ve played MtG and Yugioh for 7 years” is a flipping argument

Regarding r2d2`s post, YOU DONT NEED TO BE NEAR MAXED to achieve squat. You just need a solid base, and you are set, unless you are a megalomanic collector, you don`t need to have 4 ofs of every rare to succeed. In fact, buying Silver packs now sounds like an investment because, as i mentioned, you need to fill your small niches with UNCOMMONS, not MORE FOIL

I’m not saying that you ONLY need Rares and Epics to win at Kingdoms, but rather that they’re an important part of any good deck. And at present, there isn’t even a reliable way to get a single Epic with the exception of very slowly accruing Gems through achievements and Daily Rewards or paying several times more than you would for an entire great indie game by itself.

I don’t understand what exactly you’re defending here. You think grinding for months to get the cards you want is normal and acceptable for most players? Keep in mind, even the players who have been playing Kingdoms since early June regularly complain about missing a bunch of stuff.

Or, alternatively, you think paying hundreds of dollars for all the new Eve collection, the T3 heroes, and Epic/Rare cards is a pricing model new players are happy to accept?

Here is the problem with Kingdoms CCG in a nutshell;

1. After completing the campaign, you’re stuck playing the exact same deck. You simply don’t have enough decent cards to play different decks that can still earn you money. (And if you earn no money, you will continue to be stuck with the same deck even longer!)

2. If you want to invest time, be prepared to spend hundreds of hours.

3. If you want to invest money instead, be prepared to spend hundreds of dollars.

 
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I hate to double post, but there are some other great suggestions in this topic from people like r2d2go and Seizan_7 that I want to second.

Originally posted by r2d2go:

You can build a decent M:TG deck for less than 100$. There are so many cards that you can indeed build more types of decks for the same money you spend on this. And, this game is fricken repetitive. You basically play the same strategy a million times, rather than other games where you might grind, but at least you have hundreds of decks to build and tweak and work on while you’re at it! I played for a day and got pretty bored – you get so little money from beginner PVP and after beating the full campaign I won’t be any good in limited. So basically to get gold I have to grind levels until they’re dust, or pay. I would rather not. Perhaps an extended campaign and a lot more gold/cards from it, and this would be okay. You should be able to PVP for more rewards than grinding campaign by the time you finish any ccg campaign. This game has potential – if the devs would like to change.

Indeed, I was surprised at how basic and bare bones the campaign was. That’s okay, since the main meat of any CCG is the multiplayer. Still, as you mentioned, they could have easily added more card rewards and also increased the rewards for PvP. At present, I believe that quickly grinding through Beginner Arena (which isn’t real PvP) or even replaying Insane Campaign missions gives you more gold per minute than even Limited PvP where each player thinks 30 seconds per turn and you occasionally lose.

*Seizan_7*’s post was harsher than mine, but very well-reasoned and absolutely true. I hope the developers take his words close to heart. He is an example of a potential paying customer who has decided to quit Kingdoms because of the problems he encountered.

Originally posted by Seizan_7:


This is the only point where I disagree. Levelling heroes has potential to be fun, as long as it’s not generic “win x battles”. Also, unless some radical change happens, there won’t be any new heroes, so they’re worth several boosters.

To be fair, I also wouldn’t mind if it was more interesting and less time-consuming than “win 250 Battles”. As it is, to unlock the true power a hero you have to grind away with the same deck for a 10+ hours. If the rest of the game weren’t already such a grindfest, this might be acceptable. However, that’s not the case.

Originally posted by Seizan_7:


There used to be singleton arena, but since major spenders sucked at it and Bahamut + Skygiant was broken combo, they got rid of it. Fun fact: for a moment I thought about giving this game second chance, then I saw only 3 arenas with most rewarding gold-wise being playhouse for wallet warriors.

Ah, so THAT’S what it is! I recall some Kingdoms players telling me how good Bahamut was. I didn’t see it, since his starting mana is horrendous and his abilities are unimpressive.

So what if he has high starting health? I will just gain board control at the beginning thanks to Uuny’s high starting mana value, the combination of his 2-turn “Raise Dead” and 5-turn Frost Nova, and it will be wittled down before long.

What I ignored was that you can have MULTIPLE Skybreaker Giants and with the inclusion of multiple Rejuvenation Potions, some other overpowered cards like Maelstorm Champion and various healing gears to stall/clear the board, it’s only a matter of time before they dominate the board. And with twice the health of normal heroes, Bahamut can survive a pure life attack.

Indeed, this hardly makes the “Standard” Arena an attractive place unless you are one of the game’s big spenders.

Devs, in a strategy game, there is nothing more frustrating and annoying than someone continually beating you not because they are more skilled at the game than you (chess, Spectromancer) or even better at deck construction, but simply because they have invested several hundred more hours and/or several hundred more dollars.

It might make a small minority of your userbase happy, but it will alienate the vast majority, like myself, Seizan_7, and r2d2go. And as Seizan_7 correctly noted, it’s better to make money from 1% of 10,000 players than 20% of 100 players. I can’t speak for the other two, but I am also someone that is willing to pay for online CCGs he finds interesting.

Edit

Also, Seizan_7 is absolutely correct about the card Wonder. Without even considering the nice option of sacrificing it for 1 mana without worrying that you might need it down the road, it narrows your deck from 40 cards to 36 cards. Literally, a 40 card deck with 4 wonders is the EXACT SAME as 36 cards without Wonder.

Considering that the smaller the deck is, the more resistant it is to bad draws, and that games end long, long before all 36 cards are used up, (even against decks specifically tailored to stall) it’s a card that absolutely every deck needs to have, and certainly an example of poor design.

 
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itt: bad players nobody’s heard of are butthurt

Originally posted by Seizan_7:

Again with this ridiculous exaggeration. How about this deck:
4 Wonders – if you don’t know why free draw is auto include, ask any MtG non-beginner
4 Rejuvs
4 Skybreakers
4 Mana Sprite – since opponent usually has to play some answer (especially early on), it’s basically 2 attack flier for 1 mana
3-4 Aegis Shield – so you can laugh at QDC/Torture
3-4 Maelstrom
0-2 Dimensional Rip
4 Scorchblast Dragons
12 other cards you like, possibly some cannon fodder for Scorch or Golemnify to deal with opponent’s Giant or just more card draw with Study X/Deep Thought. With this I could squash any pathetic “mostly (un)commons, few rares” deck you play.

lullll good like winning with that piece of crap
and you wonder why you never win games with deck construction efforts like that

 
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Originally posted by Puritas:

itt: bad players nobody’s heard of are butthurt

Originally posted by Seizan_7:

Again with this ridiculous exaggeration. How about this deck:
4 Wonders – if you don’t know why free draw is auto include, ask any MtG non-beginner
4 Rejuvs
4 Skybreakers
4 Mana Sprite – since opponent usually has to play some answer (especially early on), it’s basically 2 attack flier for 1 mana
3-4 Aegis Shield – so you can laugh at QDC/Torture
3-4 Maelstrom
0-2 Dimensional Rip
4 Scorchblast Dragons
12 other cards you like, possibly some cannon fodder for Scorch or Golemnify to deal with opponent’s Giant or just more card draw with Study X/Deep Thought. With this I could squash any pathetic “mostly (un)commons, few rares” deck you play.

lullll good like winning with that piece of crap
and you wonder why you never win games with deck construction efforts like that

I realize you’re an idiot troll who can’t even type basic coherent English, but for once in your life, rub your two remaining braining cells to form a coherent thought. When I played Beginner PvP arena, I got as high as 3rd. In Limited Arena, I’m top 10-20. I have been playing for a few days. If I’m “bad”, what does that make everyone else?

And Puritas, we’re still waiting on your amazing accomplishments you talked about. I don’t see you anywhere near the top of any PVP arena in a game as basic as Kingdoms CCG, let alone all those other CCGs you claimed to be better than me at.

In fact, it appears you have been playing since the beginning of June and can’t even crack the top 25 of Standard Arena PvP.

The point is that you’re not some God-like expert, but just another foolish troll disrupting discussion that is trying to improve a game.

 
This post has been removed by an administrator or moderator
 
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Er
Wait
So he can call me an idiot and spend posts insulting me b/c he’s terrible at flash games
and I can’t call him a pooper

my word

 
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You didn’t say pooper. Nice distraction.

 
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Mhhh…
I guess I take a turn in this discussion, too.

@Puritas, come on, read what you wrote… youre tone is more then a bit off right of the bat and although I agree with you on some points I dont really wonder why your posts get removed.

@Finalslayer I know its discouraging when someone tries to completely tone down your post, but insults arent getting you anywhere anyway :p only enforce stubborness and harden the wall you argument against.

I played this game for around 2 months now. I got the bundle to support the devs, cardwise it isnt worth it at all^^.

But anyway, what I want to say is that at the beginning, this game was way more farmer friendly. You could go through campaign, battle around in bronze (wich had only 20 cards back then) then switch over to epic since its 60 singleton cards and you play against ai. Youre winrate was nice and the games were fast, although quite boring sometimes. Noone had to spent lots of time on the game back then. Fast dumping 125 energy within 20 min in campaign for a little less reward (300 gold for 6) was easily possible.

With the change up and the introduction of the pvp system many ppl raged, including me. There is no fast way to farm gold anymore. You have to play hours and hours to get anywhere the same amount of farm as before. Now, I and most ppl who played as long as I did can go and play standard to gain a “normal” income, since we already farmed up a good amount of cards. Although I am still only able to build one “good” deck, im kind of fine in standard. If you think about it matchwise, it doenst take that many to get a gold pack now in standard.

But what went wrong?

1. For new players, it just sucks. Back then we could farm 350 gold for 6 energy vs ai > 90% win chance after campaign. Now its hahaha. 100 + bonus gold in bronze for 4. Good luck getting your stuff together with that rate ;).
There should be some major change up here in my opinion. People are forced way too much into playing pvp at this point, and it takes way too long. Also Keep energy/gold ratio but highten up energy per battle so it wont take so goddam long

2. The enforced bigger cardpools arent in any relation to the rares/epics you can use. It was 20 cards for bronze, with the same rules, and 20 cards for silver if I remember correct. What made me angry back then was that I couldnt replace the epic, wich I didndt have, with a 3rd rare. Just a small suggestion along the way. Anyway, with the cardpool/rare ration you can be happy to even draw your rares/epics. For me silver arena is just flat out boring now, although I remember it being quite competitive back then. Bad that devs dont keep an eye on these relations, and bad that there STILL arent any rewards for being in the top blabla of players in arena. Rather discouraging…

3. Look at the name of the arena: standard. That implies 2 things. If youre not playing standard, youre lower then the average and also, it is quite easy to reach that point. That was true for the ai times. Now its different ;). Change back to silver/gold to not constantly grind on ppls minds and then wonder why so many bobs come and play “standard” with armoryas.

Dev note since im kinda drifted in that direction anyway^^:
4. Please and for gods sake stop rearanging the t3 completely every 2nd patch. Grows really annoying, especially when you keep packing up crapnerfs in a flowerbed.

That being said, who cares about the pricing system. Theyll never lower it to an amount where you can get an entire set for some cheap bucks. Would be really boring that way anyway, aye? So @ final and all the others, try focusing your rage into improving the grinding for pve/pvp rather then cutting down the price. More prices, more achievements more winning options and more rewards are the way to go here imo, like final suggested partially, too.

On all the other points, sorry Im not into writing an even bigger textwall now, my bad ;).
I couldve overseen something but genereally said, I find many of them too radical.
Comparison to mtg made me laugh though, 2^^.

 
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Originally posted by FinalSlayer:


Literally, a 40 card deck with 4 wonders is the EXACT SAME as 36 cards without Wonder.

Considering that the smaller the deck is, the more resistant it is to bad draws, and that games end long, long before all 36 cards are used up, (even against decks specifically tailored to stall) it’s a card that absolutely every deck needs to have, and certainly an example of poor design.

Just want to say that;

40 cards deck + 4 Wonders =/= 36 cards deck

as any cards’ chances of being drawn before you play the 4 Wonders have < 1/36th chance to be drawn

But yes, it’s a must-have :)
Unless you somehow have 40 useful cards, or if your deck size is larger than 40

 
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Originally posted by shadowlance1:

You didn’t say pooper. Nice distraction.

oops
I genuinely meant to

@Whisper I was going to respond like a normal person
But with his name + the endless whining, I couldn’t help myself :D

 
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Originally posted by Whisp3rWind:

Mhhh…

@Finalslayer I know its discouraging when someone tries to completely tone down your post, but insults arent getting you anywhere anyway :p only enforce stubborness and harden the wall you argument against.

Why do you think I’m “discouraged”?! While it’s great that virtually everyone agrees with me, this topic was mostly made for the developers, in the (admittedly microscopic) chance they would read it and reconsider their pricing model. The only reason I bothered responding to a trolling doucher like Puritas was to bump the topic. Normally, I don’t waste my time with juvenile morons.

Unfortunately, the developers have ignored my post, your post, and those of others expressing concerns about the grind and pricing of the game. Guess they want to do things their own way.

We will all just have to sit back and wait until they become the next “Magic the Gathering”. :)

 
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We will all just have to sit back and wait until they become the next “Magic the Gathering”. :)

We actually do read most posts, even if we don’t have time to respond to them all since we’re very busy trying to make this the next “Magic the Gathering”.