[Kingdoms CCG] In Game costs and Gem costs to lead to a "Broken Game"

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So I’m about do a little math, and don’t get me wrong, I really enjoy this game, and would really like to continue playing. I’ll start with the 3rd tier Heroes. 3rd tier heroes cost 100,000gold or 200Gems, which is over 19.99 USD. There are 6 third tier heroes. So that (If you were purely a Gem Buyer) would be Over 120dollars USD. So why not just play the game a lot and earn cards and gold that way? Well for a victory you gain anywhere between 75 gold to 150 gold per win. For the sake of this math, let’s say you earn 100gold per win. That 1,000 wins per 3rd tier hero. At around 1-5 minutes a match coming to 5,000 minutes which breaks down to 83 hours and about 15 minutes. Or 3 and a half days. Of Straight playing. Now on to Deck pack costs. 1 pack of Gold cards is 5000 gold or 15,000 gold. That is either 50 wins or 150 wins. Let us not even factor in the “What if you lose a match” concept. I’ll also take this moment to point out that to replay levels, you have to pay “Energy.”
You start with 50 and to upgrade it, yes you guessed it, you have to pay gold or gems.

Im all for Devs getting their money, but as it stands, this is a flash game, the prices are broken, and this will cause a serious imbalance for players as time goes on. At the very least, perhaps give us a little more gold for our wins. I have spoken to a Developer in Chat recently and he told me that some tournaments (once released) will take gems to enter. Likewise Guilds when released will require either gold or gems to be founded.

If you the reader agrees that this system as it stands in game is broken, please help in speaking out as players and as the community of this great game so that it might not become another ‘Pay to Win’ game or a seriously ‘nerfed’ foundation of a game Kongregate.

~Shadow15
`IGN: CloudyMorrow

 
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Yep, this is a more succinct version of what I wrote in the topic “Problems with This Game and How to Fix Them”. With the exception of one longtime player who sneered at me for daring to want a game that is less overpriced and grindy, better, everyone else agreed.

It also doesn’t help matters that in playing your 83 hours worth of games (all wins, under your assumptions) the game quickly becomes boring and repetitive, especially since you’re forced to use the exact same deck. (After all, you want to win, and you barely have enough to make one good deck, let alone two!)

While I achieved 3rd place in Beginner PvP arena and 10th in Limited, it’s my third day with Kingdoms and I’m already very bored. Playing the same basic Uunys deck, beating the same people with the same simple tactics, and losing to the ones who have better cards than me. (Most of them using Uunys)

It quickly gets repetitive and stale.

 
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Tyrant: the beginning

 
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Does the devs themselves read the kong forum?
or is there a specific forum where they communicate more?

 
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Originally posted by FinalSlayer:
With the exception of one longtime player who sneered at me for daring to want a game that is less overpriced and grindy, better, everyone else agreed.

Let me guess, vice123? The only person I’ll miss. Also, he was sarcastic with trolling sprinkle. ;)

Originally posted by Hedgehog101:

Tyrant: the beginning

LOL, so true. Except Tyrant had 9-10 full rooms when they decided to go full-scale greedy. Kingdoms had one with 100 people before badges, 2 with 300 total after badges. So yeah…

Originally posted by DodgeNDive:

Does the devs themselves read the kong forum?
or is there a specific forum where they communicate more?

Are you serious? There is ingame link to their official forum: http://wiki.kingdomsccg.com/?q=forum I’d assume they at least skim topic titles, since they used to hang out in Kong chatroom.

 
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Originally posted by Seizan_7:
Originally posted by FinalSlayer:
With the exception of one longtime player who sneered at me for daring to want a game that is less overpriced and grindy, better, everyone else agreed.

Let me guess, vice123? The only person I’ll miss. Also, he was sarcastic with trolling sprinkle. ;)

Nope, Puritas. The funny thing is I’m certain he isn’t even very good at Kingdoms. He bragged about being top 30 in Standard (not impressive, considering most players don’t understand the basic strategy of Kingdoms, and it’s hardly a complicated CCG), yet doesn’t consider Uunys particularly overpowered and claims Ravinova is “mediocre”.

(An ultra-quick board effect coupled with fast direct damage and mana steal and good initial mana value is “mediocre”?! Really?)

Incidentally, the devs told me several days ago in chat that they read this forum regularly. However, considering that they haven’t responded to either this topic or the others like it, (yet have been on Kongregate many times in the past few days and even posted in other topics on this forum) one can only assume they will ignore these concerns.

Oh well. We gave it our best shots.

I wish them the best of luck with Kingdoms but have grave doubts that it will be around in 6 months, let alone as popular as Magic or LoL…(the devs’ stated ambitions)

 
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Totally agree, having the same thoughts.

 
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Originally posted by FinalSlayer:

Nope, Puritas. The funny thing is I’m certain he isn’t even very good at Kingdoms. He bragged about being top 30 in Standard (not impressive, considering most players don’t understand the basic strategy of Kingdoms, and it’s hardly a complicated CCG), yet doesn’t consider Uunys particularly overpowered and claims Ravinova is “mediocre”.

lul
Reading comprehension fail at its best
Also re t2 heroes
by means of analogy
You’re pretty much saying “This squishy kind of poo tastes the best, you noob you like apples rofl u mad bro”

well done, sir
well done

plz dont stop learnin us on how this here game should be run
we are all agog magog

 
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Originally posted by Puritas:
Originally posted by FinalSlayer:

Nope, Puritas. The funny thing is I’m certain he isn’t even very good at Kingdoms. He bragged about being top 30 in Standard (not impressive, considering most players don’t understand the basic strategy of Kingdoms, and it’s hardly a complicated CCG), yet doesn’t consider Uunys particularly overpowered and claims Ravinova is “mediocre”.

lul
Reading comprehension fail at its best
Also re t2 heroes
by means of analogy
You’re pretty much saying “This squishy kind of poo tastes the best, you noob you like apples rofl u mad bro”

well done, sir
well done

plz dont stop learnin us on how this here game should be run
we are all agog magog

So according to you, all the T2 heroes are garbage, and only the T3 heroes are worthwhile, right?

Way to prove our point that the grind/cost of this game is excessive, idiot…

 
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no u stupid pooper

re: the t2 heros you MENTIONED since you’re apparently too dum to take things from context

why don’t you gtfo already ho ho ho

 
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Originally posted by Puritas:

no u stupid pooper

re: the t2 heros you MENTIONED since you’re apparently too dum to take things from context

why don’t you gtfo already ho ho ho

On a related note, Puritas is the kind of trolling, juvenile idiot you can expect to encounter among the “hardcore”, pay 2 win Kingdoms community. It’s also a good way to keep your game from obtaining greater popularity among new players.

Amusingly though, I think fixing the pricing model and grind would help with this other problem as well. Right now, people like Puritas who have invested a ton of time/money into the game to get more heroes and cards have this illusion that they’re master level players who understand everything about the game. They troll these forums, writing childish insults towards anyone who has constructive feedback about Kingdoms.

Allowing more players to get the cards and heroes they want would be a much-needed “reality check” for people like Puritas, and does a good job of making a community welcoming and fun, instead of childish and condescending.

 
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FinalSlayer trembled nervously as he put the finishing touches on yet another essay about how to improve flash games. “They must see what I’m trying to do here, they just must”, he repeated in a drone as he rocked back and forth on his creaky stolen office chair. “It’s for the greater good of humanity!” he exlaimed, wiping cheetoh dust off his pudgy fingers as he stabbed confidently at the submit button.

Now if only that aching thorn on his side – the poster using the ‘Puritas’ – would just leave him alone, FinalSlayer was sure that his superior intellect and rhetoric would win over those greedy corporate developers and better the gaming world for everyone.

Justice would come…on the internets.

 
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Puri may be relentlessly trolling you, but he actually isn’t a pay2win player. In fact, he just got back from a month-long break a couple of days ago. Just saying. :P

I agree that a lower price point would be better for everyone – including the devs – but at this point, I just don’t think it’s going to happen.

 
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Originally posted by Puritas:

FinalSlayer trembled nervously as he put the finishing touches on yet another essay about how to improve flash games. “They must see what I’m trying to do here, they just must”, he repeated in a drone as he rocked back and forth on his creaky stolen office chair. “It’s for the greater good of humanity!” he exlaimed, wiping cheetoh dust off his pudgy fingers as he stabbed confidently at the submit button.

Now if only that aching thorn on his side – the poster using the ‘Puritas’ – would just leave him alone, FinalSlayer was sure that his superior intellect and rhetoric would win over those greedy corporate developers and better the gaming world for everyone.

Justice would come…on the internets.

Actually, you’re doing a fine job of helping me, Puritas. By all means, continue.

If everyone else agrees with my posts and the lone dissent comes from an obvious trolling doucher like yourself, that only makes my views appear stronger. The only thing I don’t understand why you’re against improving Kindgoms CCG and making it more fun and accessible to new players. Then again, there is a lot I don’t understand about morons.

Alavarra Yeah, you’re probably right. At this point, the devs have visited the forum regularly and even made posts while ignoring this. Shame, as Kingdoms CCG could have a nice niche in the market if they implemented some of the suggestions here.

 
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I made this forum in the hopes that people who actually enjoy this pass-time would be willing to step up and say “Hey, I agree, and here is a few helpful suggestions to improve this concern.”

Instead, some of the people who have responded feel the need to do the typical internet thing and argue about something completely juvenile.

I don’t blame the devs for not taking this seriously, look at the vast majority of the content posted in response to what my original post was trying to put out there.

Better luck next time.
And Devs, if you do by chance wade through this quagmire of immaturity, thanks for making a fun ccg we can all enjoy.

~Shadow15
~IGN:CloudyMorrow

 
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Originally posted by Shadow15:

I made this forum in the hopes that *people who actually enjoy this pass-time would be willing to step up and say “Hey, I agree, and here is a few helpful suggestions to improve this concern.”

*

Instead, some of the people who have responded feel the need to do the typical internet thing and argue about something completely juvenile.


I don’t blame the devs for not taking this seriously, look at the vast majority of the content posted in response to what my original post was trying to put out there.


Better luck next time.
And Devs, if you do by chance wade through this quagmire of immaturity, thanks for making a fun ccg we can all enjoy.


~Shadow15
~IGN:CloudyMorrow

Wait… you expected this to happen on the internet? Is this your first day?

Btw, game’s awesome whether you’re willing to pay or not… let’s just hope they don’t ruin it.

 
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a topic of morons

 
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Originally posted by Furbaa:

a topic of morons

and you, my friend, and i, are both in it

 
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I agree that the price is idiotically high in this otherwise media-core game. Just don’t play it…. got the badges now time to gtfo… and never return .. bb

 
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I actually became bored of trying to farm for the tier 3 heroes…Now all I do is log on each day to get my free gold and then log out. Once I finally get the gold I need (if it ever happens) Ill probably just play a few games with the new hero and then stop playing because there would be no point in continuing the stupid log on log out for random things that will not help progress me enough with how much they cost. Overall this is a deadend game. Ill hit the top by not even playing the game with how stupid the costs are and they I just decide its pointless and quit.

 
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Originally posted by Hedgehog101:

Tyrant: the beginning

Worse than tyrant. I play tyrant and got to level 144, its still somewhat interesting because they released a pack with cards stronger than all that had existed before and made it available for free at a rate of about 1 pack/week.

 
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1: gems are not needed for anything in the game unless your planning on building an entire deck around the realm-sworn bard card.
2: if gems were cheaper more people would be complaining about this game being pay to win.
3: T3 takes ~12 hours of game play to get, the only way I can think of that it could take 82 is if you do only campaign and count the extra hours spent staring at your screen doing nothing for your energy to refill.

If you play for 60-90 minutes a day only getting your 25 win bonuses a day, you could get a t3 in 7-9 hours of actual game play.
imo campaign gold won could use a boost for people who don’t want to do pvp, but for now don’t complain about not making gold fast when it is your own fault for only doing the slowest possible way of making gold.

 
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Damn it, FinalSlayer knows what he’s talking about! Honestly, I’ve played about a couple of hours in total of this game, and the first thing I realized within about four levels of one campaign was the hard-to-make good-deck ( I’ve lost A LOT of battles, WAY more than wins, anyways) and the grinding. The hard-to-make good-deck was due to the gold amount obtained, and the costs of packs. My starter units are destroyed in battles without doing any damage, and all because they’re just weak. That’s simply it. AI has something to do with it( placing units in front of my guys blocking damage, damn it!) but that’s not important. The grind gets increasingly annoying as you slowly start to realize that this game orbits around the grinding. I may give this game another try, and put together a reasonable deck, but the cost for the 1.5K gold packs ( because the 500 gold packs are horrid ) and the actual gold amount gained doesn’t add up. As someone added earlier, the situation is exactly like Tyrant. And they’re /just/ entering the whole clan wars and PvP complaints.

EDIT: But there is a huge factor that I generally suck at this genre of games if there isn’t a starter boost to the actual gameplay. If booster decks are always going to be random cards, I’m always going to get shitty useless cards.

 
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I never had a problem with this game and only ever bought my first booster packs after completing the normal campaign. You get enough rewards from each level to get through comfortably.

Beginner is very easy if you don’t want to do proper PvP, simply because you are smarter than an AI. You can get a booster a day using this, and that’s not counting the ludicrously generous daily rewards.

I actually started PvP relatively late because I know I don’t deal well with being repeatedly defeated, and it was still relatively fast to get a decent enough deck together.

 
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Originally posted by Shadow15:

So I’m about do a little math, and don’t get me wrong, I really enjoy this game, and would really like to continue playing. I’ll start with the 3rd tier Heroes. 3rd tier heroes cost 100,000gold or 200Gems, which is over 19.99 USD. There are 6 third tier heroes. So that (If you were purely a Gem Buyer) would be Over 120dollars USD. So why not just play the game a lot and earn cards and gold that way? Well for a victory you gain anywhere between 75 gold to 150 gold per win. For the sake of this math, let’s say you earn 100gold per win. That 1,000 wins per 3rd tier hero. At around 1-5 minutes a match coming to 5,000 minutes which breaks down to 83 hours and about 15 minutes. Or 3 and a half days. Of Straight playing. Now on to Deck pack costs. 1 pack of Gold cards is 5000 gold or 15,000 gold. That is either 50 wins or 150 wins. Let us not even factor in the “What if you lose a match” concept. I’ll also take this moment to point out that to replay levels, you have to pay “Energy.”
You start with 50 and to upgrade it, yes you guessed it, you have to pay gold or gems.

Im all for Devs getting their money, but as it stands, this is a flash game, the prices are broken, and this will cause a serious imbalance for players as time goes on. At the very least, perhaps give us a little more gold for our wins. I have spoken to a Developer in Chat recently and he told me that some tournaments (once released) will take gems to enter. Likewise Guilds when released will require either gold or gems to be founded.

If you the reader agrees that this system as it stands in game is broken, please help in speaking out as players and as the community of this great game so that it might not become another ‘Pay to Win’ game or a seriously ‘nerfed’ foundation of a game Kongregate.


~Shadow15
`IGN: CloudyMorrow


bump