[Senatry] K3: the families issues

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Hi all!

There has appeared an urge to discuss and somehow resolve the current server situation. Initiated by Fury, it was meant to be held in the world chat between family leadership first, but I thought it through and found too much words to say that a chat wouldn’t bear. That’s why I shall bring it to forums.
I welcome all concerned Scipii, Brutii, and my fellow Julii to the debate.

Y’know, I am no politician. I hate politics. I am a warrior. I do war. Using teamwork, using gameplay rules, maintaining some respect to enemies.
Still, I realize that in general this is just people playing a game. Living people, who are all nice in a way, have their life and just want to have some fun.
The game, however, is about war. There’s no ‘win’ button. It doesn’t play itself for you. There is no payback without effort. Still, there happens effort without payback. It discourages from playing, I know it.

Now, let me explain the Julii position about the situation on the server.

We turned out being the biggest family here right from the start. A bunch of red players had to reroll into green and blue to bring some life into those families. But even this way we are still as big as two other families together.

Being big has its downsides. Prestige is our pain. We have to spend twice as much bugles on pvp as greens or blues need to get the same amount of prestige. We farm PEs down to grey in eye’s glimpse. Upping Rumor helped a bit, but not much. But there is another ingame way to fix it. It is called the alliance.

The alliance is actually an ingame balancing mechanism, helping both the big and the small ones. One side gets more targets, the other two get easier legion runs. Everyone should be happy this way.
I believe it’s not the alliance itself that bugs you. It’s the fact that we leave no way back for future players to overthrow red domination. I understand your concerns and have 2 ideas of a workaround here.

First off, the terms the red family really needs now (and has ingame means to maintain, so I guess we deserve it) are: keep the alliance, until number of players pinned down to 100 areas is AT LEAST 5:8 red:(green+blue).

Plan A: You will have to trust me. And my successors.
- Red keep 8 areas in total, including Damascus and trade centers.
- We also maintain one of cultural areas at the edge to trigger the alliance back after reset
- Blue and green will keep the rest, but both must have 2 areas minimum, political center included.
- Once the condtions for healthy aliance break are met (5:8), we move people to the trade centers, so blue and green can wage area wars to try and win them back.
Pros: mostly 1 person responsible, easy to control.
Cons: might seem too hard for you, and you will also have to trust the red family.

Plan B: Some kind of worldwide peace treaty.
- Each family keeps their trade center.
- Reds have 8 areas and means to trigger the alliance.
- No-one tries to sieze any areas (except the one that triggers the alliance)
- Once the conditions for healthy alliance break are met, ALL family leaders get notified and must agree between themselves to unleash the area standoff once again.
Pros: all families’ role is equal in this
Cons: too many responsible persons, hard to control. A single non-caring player can put an end to the treaty, breaking it forever.

If none of these suit you, there’s Plan C: ban me and do whatever you want.

 
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If I have a choice on the three plans it would be plan B. Problem I see with plan A blue and green will never grow enough to beat red therefore we are without a trade center and have no chance without that.

 
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Mainly, if one side has no means to beat the other one, it most probably also has no means to outinvest the other one. Thus, trade center would do them no good in a long term anyway. But I understand your point.

 
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Problem with the whole plan is the size of the player base, excluding alts… To attain the ratio Red needs just to maintain prestige is not possible. Activity will continue to decline, I think its the intrinsic nature of Senatry. New servers continue to draw off players, instead of fully developing current servers, Senatry moves on…. I have made it thru Dacia and Hun on another server but same thing happened there, then the merger… argh Has anyone made it to the final Hero, just curious? Rhieks has laid out excellent ideas, and they would work if the player base continues to build, but I think our attrition is higher than the recruitment now. So I am not sure if there is anything, anyone can or is willing to do…. Thanks for all the input!

 
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Plan B has my vote, if we can get the base up there!! lol Every family has a vested share in what happens on the server….

 
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Kailis just made a good point, please sign your posts with your K3 ingame name. I know that Timeisblabla is Fury, but I don’t know who the other guy is.

P.S. Just posted something in suggestions thread. We seem to think alike concerning servers development…

 
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There needs to be other ways to get prestige. I, for one, had LIMITED players i could attack and win. With the alliance, i lost a good 50% of them. Getting prestige is almost impossible now.
The game needs to be changed to allow npc to give prestige, maybe some npc cities as well. Even some prestige when being attacked. It would also help if heros got experience for attacking and being attacked.

 
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First of all Rhieks I want to commend you on bringing this forth in an open forum. This is Honorable among warriors with the utmost integrity. Most wars are fought between Nations of an existing population. As this game is, you have to build your population and use the time clock.

One issue is experience vs non experience. (the non experience takes time to build to gain at least a remote chance to defend.

The second issue is extremely important that the leadership in the other families bring all their players up to par and maintain a regiment to help their own league members gain the experience and expertise to war. (that way there are none left behind or ignored as they work to learn the in game mechanics) There will have to be a meeting with the family leaders to get all on board to help each of their members to promote a war like environment for this game.

Thirdly

There are other ways to get prestige like investment in your areas with the

1-prosperity
5-prosperity
10-prosperity

Each cost is different in accordance with the leagues levels and tech for each state.

All that being said I think what you have here is a good olive branch that can be tweaked out a little further for all. I think that for one of the add on’s to plan “B” that all states are sub-divided back to the beginning with a two to three week piece treaty in tact. That would put urgency back to the leagues and family to unite together to try to withstand a onslaught after the piece treaty.

This would give families after the hiatus to battle to try to maintain through PVP, investments or AW’s to keep or loose the states on their own merits.

Its not an easy task when people want to join a winning team because it’s human nature to take the winning side and keep winning. The Alliance would have to be broken so all three family can have an equal opportunity to build up their ranks and get competitive. Red Family can keep their players. Its just up to the other families to recruit and bring this to fruition.

Again this is just an "add on “Ideal” to plan B"

Thanks again PG.Pappy

 
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the first post from PerryM5 is War sorry for not signing

 
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Pappy,
1) one can only make 3 investments per day which is miserable quantity of prestige in total at higher ranks
2) they take quite some silver that could otherwise be used for upgrading or buying gold via Fair
3) it is available for all players, not just one family, and gets more and more expensive as prosperity grows
4) there’s also exploits sacrificing thing, puny amount at unreasonable cost with 2 hours c/d. I don’t even wanna talk about it.

Now, about your plan. Of course it would bring some life to the server for a while. But, for a long time, it would be the same scenario again: Julii will have to retake all the areas we need. I don’t think it’s fair, because it’s not that easy. It takes much coordination effort and silver, makes single players drop behind in upgrades, etc. And doing this, we raise prosperity in enemy areas, making it harder for us to retake them, and giving them good levies. If our hard gainings are just taken from us everytime, reds will simply become the weakest family while still the biggest. This would be the end of the red side. As it’s my responsibility in some way, I will never agree to that. I could agree to give other families a chance, but not unlimited chances at our own expense, sorry.

As for prestige in lower areas, well, okay, let me whine about lower legions. It’s almost impossible to get anything lower than Armenia to run. Unless its for completion. This is a price paid for the alliance. Along with the silver, nerves and strict discipline.

 
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well so far you this post is how to help the red family gain prestige. It’s no secret you have more players and can take the map as you please, but at the same time this is one families point of view. Now i havent had any conversations with anyone in Blue family but you know i am green, im not big on alliances. this may help doing legions for some but i came for the pvp aspect of the game. I like being able to hit who I want when i want, and not be subjected to the same few everyday.

As for the running of legions Its up to the family to be supportive of their own and not selfish and always out for self glorification. I’ve been known to give my last bugles to help smaller players run legions and what not for completion or not. When you get down to it if the higher players wont help the smaller ones so they can reach high levels then that family is doomed anyways. The server has had its problems and they have been sorted out but for the red family to set the rules for others is beyond me.

My personal vote is for neither. if you cant work as a team and help your own then you will get nowhere.

PGCarnage

 
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Ok, lets not get too off track. This really isn’t about who is in what family and what family is trying to dominate.

We need ideas to keep this server going, not dying! This is about self-preservation for all current players and families. New players will never start here if there is no reason to do so, there is always a newer Senatry server opening somewhere. And right now we are in trouble as a server, not red, not green, not blue, all Senatry players here. So please, lets keep all options open and on the table of ideas.

Can we try and run a new player promo, Kailis?

I myself am tired of going server after server, leaving the falling ones, and this is my last stop,
Fury

 
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Here goes;
@fury, 5 players have completed qin on server 1/4.
@Rhieks, fine idea in essence and actually glad that you have thought to address it, I for one would rather that we broke the alliance ourselves (doesn’t matter how hard it’ll be, it can be done), you have stated yourself it is a war game so in that respect we should all go for it and try to be as hard as we can, mistakes will be made.
@computertech; attack different people for prestige if you are struggling, sometimes you have to start low to get high.
Paul.

 
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Let me put it this way. I am not asking for anyone’s compassion or pity. Or allowance to have what we have. I am merely explaining our intentions and doings. We do it because we need it, and because we can. Everything comes at a cost. That’s what I am trying to explain you here. Just having most players isnt equal to winning.

There are TONS of things to bitch about actually. Gold buyers which are impossible to beat. Morons who don’t care about family. Dead bodies. Many game aspects that may seem inappropriate to some players. This is not a topic to bitch.

Like Fury said, it’s about constructive ideas and their discussing. Devs already did a very good thing here: random family for a reward. This will make new servers healthy for sure.
As for old servers, there is always alliance. People do bitch about it, but they are running anyway. Green domination. Blue domination. I don’t see why some red one bugs you that much.

I have already posted my ideas on getting many new players in the suggestion thread. With random family feature together, this would cause a new generation wave here.

We could add to it. Make an action: every new player who joins Brutii at K3, gets 100 gold. Every Scipii gets 50 gold. Announce it at the game starting screen where people have to choose servers.
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Unless someone else comes up with another plan, acceptable for ALL families, I need official unified position of Blue and Green family.

 
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I just dont know.

TiBattle

 
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Plan B has my vote. And the initial con of too many people responsible isn’t a problem i think because there are enough of other people to keep the areas in check.

PG.Rood

 
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(TK.Leonidas) I like the 2 plans and i would like to do the Plan B i hope this gonna be a succes and i hope the 3family Works good together And Thank you Rhieks for this Issue

 
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Originally posted by Rhieks:

Let me put it this way. I am not asking for anyone’s compassion or pity. Or allowance to have what we have. I am merely explaining our intentions and doings. We do it because we need it, and because we can. Everything comes at a cost. That’s what I am trying to explain you here. Just having most players isnt equal to winning.

There are TONS of things to bitch about actually. Gold buyers which are impossible to beat. Morons who don’t care about family. Dead bodies. Many game aspects that may seem inappropriate to some players. This is not a topic to bitch.

Like Fury said, it’s about constructive ideas and their discussing. Devs already did a very good thing here: random family for a reward. This will make new servers healthy for sure.
As for old servers, there is always alliance. People do bitch about it, but they are running anyway. Green domination. Blue domination. I don’t see why some red one bugs you that much.

I have already posted my ideas on getting many new players in the suggestion thread. With random family feature together, this would cause a new generation wave here.

We could add to it. Make an action: every new player who joins Brutii at K3, gets 100 gold. Every Scipii gets 50 gold. Announce it at the game starting screen where people have to choose servers.
-————
Unless someone else comes up with another plan, acceptable for ALL families, I need official unified position of Blue and Green family.

I would like to know two things…What was the population here when the server started and at what point the Red start gaining the power. One thing I know about power shifts is that when a new server opens one clan of maybe 150 members can come over and dominate another server right from the start. I don’t know that it was the case here but if it was it dooms a server due to catching up. On the other hand it does give new life on the cause for the pure simple reason more targets to attack if they are spread out in levels. Surely it would be slow for other who are higher in Rank but that’s the price you pay for breaking away from the pack too soon and not helping leveling out your lower rank members (of course if you don’t have any enemies it’s also much harder and slower which is why alts are made).

Reds just by human nature will deem any ideal out of reason if it hurts too much….but again you did get there by playing the game and winning at your strategy. With that being said though it is a game that has to thrive on human participation or You guys will just own a server and stay at the top of the totem pole due to population being an issue. Sounds like a server merge maybe the only reasonable solution….
Just my opinion…PG.Pappy

 
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i think the real problem is “Does alliance makes server dead or actually help green and blue to run leg and battle”
if everyone think this ally do harm for brutii and scipii to get prestiege and make them dont want to play in this server than tell julii to break the alliance
if its not whats the point of getting other area like trade center? why does that bothers?
If you really think and care about server’s dying because there’s too little ppl, go advertise this server and make ppl to come here.
Even Julli cant run leg if there’s isnt any help.
Talking about who to get what area and how many to get affect nothing. Just makes no difference.

 
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Pappy, DS wasn’t a moving league planning to conquer the server. It happened so that I was there one of the first, was the first to create a league in honor of the K2 league I was in (merged into Assassins after servers merge), was the first to get my league a family beating Pompey. And ofc made some recruitment in world chat. People started joining. We got the biggest one pretty fast, developed the league and started getting new people. Many joined not because we were the best, but because they knew K2 Darkside, or wanted to play Julii, or both. Brutii had Backslider then, the holy cow gold buyer no-one could beat, and a few other active players, greens were more like dead (though still having active players). Ashbringer, Luna, Fury, Silk, Rood, and like 5 other players who knew each other well from other server, made reroll to Scipii for the sake of the server. It was a pain to lose them, but I understod what it was for. They made the green family pretty competitive, their top 10 players were way stronger than our top ten, but still it was small compared to the red. We had a bunch of experienced player, and those not that experienced compensated it with dedication. There are also alts. I spent hell of my time to run 4 accts, Kokunetz runs 8 for Julii now. It is allowed, so it’s only a matter of how much you want to help your family. Later, Amaazee and BARRETT re-rolled into Brutii, which got behind as Backslider quit, but didn’t seem to make them any good. This is the story as it is.

BTW. “OMG, server is dying, I quit!” – THIS is who kills it actually. Good luck at S6. Lol.

Okay, so plan B. I will work out the mechanism to get to the initial treaty state, then it shall be signed here on forums by family representatives, approved by Kailis and brought to life.

 
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Originally posted by Rhieks1:

Pappy, DS wasn’t a moving league planning to conquer the server. It happened so that I was there one of the first, was the first to create a league in honor of the K2 league I was in (merged into Assassins after servers merge), was the first to get my league a family beating Pompey. And ofc made some recruitment in world chat. People started joining. We got the biggest one pretty fast, developed the league and started getting new people. Many joined not because we were the best, but because they knew K2 Darkside, or wanted to play Julii, or both. Brutii had Backslider then, the holy cow gold buyer no-one could beat, and a few other active players, greens were more like dead (though still having active players). Ashbringer, Luna, Fury, Silk, Rood, and like 5 other players who knew each other well from other server, made reroll to Scipii for the sake of the server. It was a pain to lose them, but I understod what it was for. They made the green family pretty competitive, their top 10 players were way stronger than our top ten, but still it was small compared to the red. We had a bunch of experienced player, and those not that experienced compensated it with dedication. There are also alts. I spent hell of my time to run 4 accts, Kokunetz runs 8 for Julii now. It is allowed, so it’s only a matter of how much you want to help your family. Later, Amaazee and BARRETT re-rolled into Brutii, which got behind as Backslider quit, but didn’t seem to make them any good. This is the story as it is.

BTW. “OMG, server is dying, I quit!” – THIS is who kills it actually. Good luck at S6. Lol.

Okay, so plan B. I will work out the mechanism to get to the initial treaty state, then it shall be signed here on forums by family representatives, approved by Kailis and brought to life.

Thanks Rhieks good background information. I don’t know about the quitters but I am still here….I just found out most brighthouse servers in my area have been having problems all weekend…ttyl Rhieks…Pappy

 
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Rhieks how many accounts do you have? Like 7. Pick one and use one please and thank you.

 
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Like I told you already, or you might count it by yourself, its 4 accounts. R was my primary, the other three were for league development and further investing. Also for running lower legions for the family and experimenting with builds. At some point, R1 got 1000 gold on roulette. R was struggling then with 0 gold and exploits issues. I thought I might switch my primary later, and developed them both to see which one does better. They turned out equal… I am not the only one running alts, nor are Julii. There is (or was) a guy in blue family having like 6 similar builds accts. Greens look after each other’s accounts. It’s common. The only thing I differ with is being too obvious with my alts. No-one forbids YOU to make as many accounts as you want for your family and play them.

If alts are the issue, ofc admins could change the rules and forbid them. I would submit then. But it would be a must then that all others’ alts are gone too, and its SOME shootload of work for GMs, because THOSE are NOT obvious. They would have to check all IPs to reveal them.

But I believe it’s not alts actually. It’s the matter of effort. Being lazy and waiting for free stuff to fall from the sky brings you nothing. All we did was playing the game. My only fault is playing the game. If playing the game kills a server, there must be something wrong with the game. Not the players.

……………..

Now, to the matter at hand. I suggest this way of area distributing.

Red family: Seleucia, Antioch, Asaak, Nisa, Sinope, Olbia, Tingis (or Cirta)
Green family: Ancyra, Cirta (or Tingis), Cyrene
Blue family: Cadiz
Trebizond will be red/blue alliance trigger. After the alliance is on, blues can have it til next reset.

The distribution of trade centers is meant like this: the better to the weaker. Moreover, blues have a bit of share in Cadiz already. The distributon of other areas between blue and green is reasoned by number of people in the families and effort they put into investment wars.

Now, about the way the treaty will be secured.

The safest way is to have the trade centers empty at all.
But it has its flaws. First, people will not be able to benefit from domains/farms/prosperity there. Bad for greenblue. Second, reds will have no means to strenghten Seleucia, and may suffer the consequences when the war emerges again.

The hardest but the most appropriate way is to have all players understand and not try to sabotage the treaty. Each family should do their best to keep their people from losing share through being attacked, because people need prestige, and having PEs sticking in seizable areas hiding behind the treaty is a bad idea. Even with this, area losses can still happen. There’s no way to secure yourself against a moron who just moves to an area and sits there attacking everybody and losing share. And no way to secure yourself against someone doing quiet investment during this to seize the area. Every case like this will need to be investigated by GMs, I hope for Kailis’s help in this. Also, any area which happens to change family, must be returned by placing open hostiles there for attacking.

Whatcha say on all this guys?

 
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I am still with if we want the areas back then we have to try hard to get them, not be given them, you have said yourself not to wait on free stuff.

 
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I have stayed out of this one till now, so here is my take on things. As far as alts, yes they are and will happen, if there in the same family i dont see much of an issue with it as there playing for the same team. Its when we have cross family alts that it becomes a very big issue for myself. As far as the war treaty, I am a fighter always have been, so i would personaly like to beat the alliance down ourselves. Besides as stated above we really could use the extra ppl for legions.

Now rhieks we all play the game, some of us harder than others. But i know i have put forth as much effort as i could and calling anyone lazy is not going to solve anything but piss ppl off.

As far as a treaty is concerned, there are way to many ppl that do not read this forum to make such a treaty. It will get cancelled in the first week IMO. Because some just dont know or care about this issue.

I totally agree our biggest issue on any of these servers is keeping ppl on the server or attracting new players. If we cant attract new players IMO the server will continue to go down this road that we are on.

just my 2 cents, JH2