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For berserker i’d go with brawler cuz better attack, defense, and health. Also with ricochet you can choose another subjob ability. Wizard i’d go with savant cuz of speed. Attack is important but my wizard right now is to slow and with the wizard set it doesn’t improve at all. Cleric i’d go with shaman cuz i use heal and speed is necessary. I never attack with my cleric so the snake set isn’t really important. also cleric is in the back rows so defense isn’t essential. For archer I’d go with soldier. The chance up is a bonus plus i use life steal. First attack isn’t really important cuz you don’t know who’s attacking first cuz they random after you start a new floor. Plus i set my archer to counter poison or flamer or shock so eliminating high threats fast is better to me especially against spiders. The archer is prob debatable cuz the marksman does have high attack but not certain. Adventure I went with Sneak cuz of speed. Plus I equipped mine the the prospector pick axe so you have to add that into their. But I’m guessing the main difference is defense and health. Depends on which line your adv is in. With the knight i went with the constable set. Only reason i went with dragoon is cuz of the quest and you need the items from dragoon to complete constable.
You’re forgetting something in the comparison. Sometimes you can have a full set and still be able to equip additional items.
For example, the way you put things, it seems that brawler \>\> fire eater and prospector \>\> sneak. In reality it’s the exact contrary.
With fire eater set you can equip the hat you want, so you add the brawler hat to the set. So you need to add the stats from the brawler hat to the stats of the set since it’s the best choice.
It’s even more visible with sneak set. There is no weapon in this set so it seems its attack bonus sucks. but actually its attack bonus in even better than with prospector set. You just need to equip big rake (+69 ATK!) to get the best atk of all characters at this level.
While i do agree for the sneak vs prospector set, i’m torn regarding the berserker set, as a full brawler will add Ricochet 1 wich is pretty good with lifesteal. Assuming lifesteal takes ricochet into account, i haven’t done the test yet.
Also worth noting is that shaman can wear snake oil salesman hat. Or chaplain hat, if you’re that fond of the speed. I am. They also have an open neck (scarf/cape) slot.
Knights and archers are both kind of boned in that department, unless you grab something like those extra packs they offer for 49 kreds. Both class’ sets are weapon + armor + hat all the way through, so the only flexibility they have is face item and neck item. Neither tend to offer a lot of stats. I’d suggest refined shaman tattoo (face item useable by everyone) because it gets +2 speed for only minor stat penalties, and a nice refined scrapper scarf for 8 defense in trade for -8 health.
I prefer Savant for wizard because his main goal, when I use him, is to lock as much down as he can with Shock Wave + Chance Up II, and do it as fast as he can. Wizards are niche fighters because they can do decent damage to a lot of monsters, but have no focused damage for single big monsters, like bosses. I see them as… ahem… “shock troops”.
In the late game, if doesn’t matter as much if you use a heal cleric or not because you’re still going to be tossing around a lot of potions either way. Shamans are the way to go for healers because they provide consistent, smooth healing on a regular basis, as opposed to a salesman or chaiplain’s spikier, less reliable healing for more per shot. Life steal II is pretty much essential for late-game… well… everyone except clerics. A shaman holding Haste II can get himself, and then his next two buddies, hasted, sometimes twice, before the fight really gets rolling, and faster attacks = more healing for the attacker. This is especially handy for front-line rico/life steal knights, as otherwise they’re too slow to do anything but play meat wall till they die. Opening with haste shaman + heal shaman + knight, then swapping out the heal shaman for adventurer and dropping a couple hastes on him, then swapping haste shaman for heal shaman (who is already hasted) can be a hectic but powerful strat, as the knight will actually contribute to his own well-being.
Dark Knights look good on paper, but actually kinda suck. They can’t take hits like a proper tank, and the lack of speed (DK should have been the Knight’s “speed set”, but has virtually no speed bonus) makes him an erratic damage-dealer, Rage notwithstanding.
Knights have no speed set. This makes them very one-dimensional in the late game. With no or minimal haste support to get them rolling, their one purpose is to stand on the front line and take hits and survive long enough for the healer shaman to heal him or you to drop heal potions on him. Not attack, not self-heal, just take hits. As the Knight has no effective speed set, this is pretty much their entire purpose, and their only saving grace is that they tend to have the Defense to do the job. Thusly, everything you do should focus on increasing his Defense as much as possible… nevermind Ricochet, nevermind Life Steal, nevermind trying to increase his Attack so he “leeches more life”, he won’t use it enough to matter… focus on Defense. If you don’t spend Kreds on the game, your single best option would be to save up 20 Pramins, go to the Emporium zeppelin, and buy him Glasses. MOAR DEFENSE!
The Ricochet nerf has somewhat hindered the Archer’s ability to be the group status inflictor, but they do much better focused damage than a mage, and still make excellent Scald inflictors on those key problem monsters. Soldier set is hard to move away from because it not only lets him Scald things faster, but increases the chance of Scald landing… I guess making him inflict Scald even faster! Go figure. It makes him very reliable at what he should be doing.
Archers will never be tanks in the late game… it doesn’t matter if you give him all Defense gear, he’ll still never take hits well. This means the Soldier set is even harder to move away from as his increased Speed matters more even late than a few extra attack, defense, etc. Life Steal will let him manage most of the excess damage he might take from Sharpshooters, Faults, Grander Gatekeepers, etc until you or a shaman can drop a heal on him. Speed, scald, ricochet, life steal.
Adventurers luck out with sets, as the Sneak set can use a Prospecter weapon, Big Rake, etcetera to make up for his weaker Defense. Later Adv sets still pack plenty of Speed, so you never really need to debate an upgrade… just do it. Fancy Flurry is harder to use than you might think at first, so you might do just as well with Scav or Pickpocket.
Entirely untrue. The Dark Knight doesn’t work, and you’re not going to make anything of a Knight except a meat shield without an unreasonable amount of effort; their only saving grave is their exceptional Defense.
It makes no sense to use anything but a Shaman as a Haste cleric, as you’re trying to get everyone accelerated as fast as possible. Any other cleric type, by definition, just won’t get the job done fast enough.
Shaman is also the better build for a healer; a cleric will never make a good tank, so there’s no reason to work on Defense or Health any more than what naturally comes with your choice of build. A snake oil salesman, chaplain or the like WILL deliver stronger heals, but will do so less frequently, leaving larger gaps in which several opportunistically timed monster attacks can bring down a character. It also means the cleric will be less flexible on healing, as they’ll almost certainly need to drop those few but powerful heals on the tank and has no time in between to toss the archer (for instance) a heal from non-melee monster attacks.
Essentially, the shaman healer provides smoother available healing fot the tank and the group, more consistent and with less spikes where bad things can happen in between.
The Archer and Adventurer get lucky with their tier 4 equipment, as the gear takes some aspects from both tier 3 sets… i.e., the Rangerling and Dandy find a fine common ground between power and speed, so it’s safe to move on from Sneak and Soldier to those tier 4 sets because the speed loss is moderate and balanced by better survivability and damage output.
Many classes don’t experience this fortune, though:
The cleric’s tier 4 gear is a direct descendant of the snake oil salesman and has nothing of the shaman in it, so to move from t3 to t4 will be a massive speed loss and a return to spiky heal performance. The only thing that offsets this is that the shaman DOES have the option to at least wear the Chaplain hat wit no speed loss, improving his power and survivability. Still, they can’t easily just move to tier 4, because it’s not a clear and useable power increase due to lack of speed. Lack of “t3 set hybrid”ing.
Knights never see speed. As Dark Knights make poor damage dealers in practice, there’s no reason to go any route but Dreadnought \> Dragoon \> Constable \> Conquerer. All Defense and Health, all the time. The DK is just an aberration, as it’s not even a speed set, so the Conquerer never has to worry about hybriding stats because the only real option is survivability from both sides.
Wizards never excel as damage dealers (due to no focused single-target damage) and make lousy tanks, so their selling point will always be mass status effects inflicted as quickly as possible. This means the Savant will far outstrip the Plague Doctor because the Savant has NINE more Speed. The Plague Doctor DOES make some mild attempt to hybrid t3 set stats, but it’s meager 3 Speed total bonus is a massive loss when you want that wizard to get Shock on as many of those six monsters as possible, as fast as possible.
Another matter to keep in mind is that high speed means a lot less need to make the effort to de-shock your characters if they get shocked. By the time you find a de-shocker and pick it up, chances are most high-speed characters will have already recovered, and since the Knight’s focus isn’t on delivering damage but on taking hits, he’ll do the same meat-wall job whether he’s shocked or not.
There are definitely winners and losers in set design. In practice, the speed sets will get a lot more done more consistently regardless of their lower power and whatnot. The only thing the game doesn’t take into consideration is that “Speed” doesn’t affect “Evasion” in this game, as there is no Evasion stat, so Speed sets shouldn’t suffer quite as much in Defense and Health… OR they should implement an Evasion stat to make up for the difference, because, regardless of character speed, monsters still attack you at the same rate whether your Defense is 10 or 100.
you just confirmed what i said ,You prefer 1 of possible gamplay styles and make heros in a way that suits it. While it is very good info and usefull for those who want to follow this style of fighting its not an only option. Only way to say anything what is better is to build evrything ,train all heroes in all jobs and make some experiments , THEN you can say this setup suits me more and its better against certain monsters.
I don’t think he confirmed Anything which you said molokot. Please don’t fall into the trap, where people only reinforce their own opinions in the presence of contrary information. Ref: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation\_bias](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias)
Also, I’m pretty sure jonnypanic Has in fact made many of the sets he is commenting on.
Next, i don’t think he actually said that the setup would ‘suit you more’. He just said that it is better. Im not sure that it’s only ‘better in a specific gameplay style’. For instance, healing in a more dependable fashion (and not letting chracters die), as well as more damage, and more speed are quite reasonably a common metric which people would use to gauge whether something was ‘better’.
I dont see how people would dispute that honestly, unless you come up with another metric like – amount of food consumed, or number of clicks (players actions needed). These are legitimate concerns, but that really isn’t the common understanding, as I’m sure you well know.
Of course, what you do is entirely a matter of your own choice or preferences. I’m not a huge fan of min-maxing everything in games either.
Shaman set = built for use on a haste cleric
Chaplain/Sultan set = stronger heals, more hp (hp is needed as buffer against bosses who do 80 AOE damage).
Personally I would only take a Heal cleric (Chaplain/Sultan) if I also had a Haste cleric (Shaman). The reason is that I use Haste + LifeSteal to keep my heroes alive.
Knight can be a real powerhouse with LifeSteal _if_ you use haste. The knight has really low natural speed, which just makes haste that much more effective (2-3 hastes almost triples damage output and Life Steal effect). With Tier4 gear knight has 200+ defence, Tier5 gear he will get upwards 300 defence, meaning he can take alot of hits.
Defence is in my opinion best in LARGE doses. If you have high defence, get more! If you can reduce 20 damage to only take 10 damage, you have halved it! Compare to taking 80 or 90 damage – not so big difference.
Incorrect. Shaman is best for both.
First, many aoes are magic and so ignore defense, rendering a cleric’s already-meager defense obsolete.
Second, Salesmen and Chaplains are SLOW. People don’t seem to grasp how critical this is in this game… speed is by far the winning factor. With a roomful of higher-level monsters, several hits can deal enough damage to flatten your tank AND the guy behind him if healing isn’t prompt. Non-shaman are so slow that, while they can deal great healing in single shots, a lot can go wrong between their heals. Also, because they’re so slow, you have to be very judicious about who they heal when, severely restricting their flexibility in supporting the group.
Salesmen and Chaplains look good on paper… tough, with powerful heals… but they actually fall behind in practice. Their healing ability is spiky, with powerful heals leaving massive lulls in action, and their defense isn’t quite as effective when it comes to magic-based attacks. A Shaman has less hp and smaller heals, but delivers at least twice as fast, and because of this, he’s more flexible.
The Shaman still also has the open “hat” slot, as well, so he can wear a full Shaman set, with all the advantages therein, AND also put on a Salesman or Chaplain hat, which serves to bolster his otherwise-worrysome lower defense, attack (magic) power and health. Salesmen and Chaplains do not have this option in reverse.
This is why I believe the Shaman is extremely difficult to move away from for both hasting and healing. It’s actually a flaw in higher set design… Nexon should have either made tier 4 and higher gear bear a hybrid of thei tier 3 power options or they should have made tier 4 and higher also offer two set options. The Adventurer is actually the pinnacle of the proper tier 4+ set design technique: the tier 3 sets offer a faster, less potent-but-more-fanctional set design and a slower, fewer-actions-but-greater-effects set design. Since tier 4 returns to the one-set design of tier 1 and 2, tier 4 takes something from both tier 3 sets and becomes an effective hybrid… as the Dandy has a great balance of toughness and power versus speed.
Archers also have this to some degree… I haven’t seen their t5 gear, but their t4 gear is a fair fusion of the functionality of Marksman and Soldier. However, most other classes lose this balance when moving on from t3: indeed, if Nexon wasn’t going to continue the “speed set versus power set” design process into t4 and up, then Chaplain is actually missing a lot of one thing it should have: speed. Chaplain would make a great t4 power set, but either a t4 speed set needs to be made or Chaplain needs more speed. As such, it’s not the Chaplain set’s fault the Shaman is a much more effective set, it’s Nexon’s fault for poor set design.
As for Knights, I’m not saying don’t give them Ricochet II + Life Steal II. This is, in fact, their most potent combination, and only they and Archers can have it naturally, without set bonus skills. And yes, Haste DOES have quite an impact on their slow selves. However, unless you take the time to dump three or more hastes into them, then their occasional attack rounds are just icing on the cake and not reliable added survivability; again, we return to slow actions leaving large gaps in which things can go wrong.
The drawback to that is that you would have to take all the time to keep the knight and haste shaman alive AND spend the haste shaman time to cast three or more haste on the knight to make him viable for self-sustainability. In the late game, I’m sure this will take at least four rounds of micro-managing as I’m sure you’ll need to take the time to do something else before this hasting process is done. It’s a lot of time an effort to make the knight a mediocre damage dealer for his own sake, and I’d rather stick those hastes on the healer or on a better initial damage dealer… and if you do that, chances are good that a significant portion of the encounter is over already, making hasting the knight even less of a power increase.
If the fight is smooth enough that you have the time to haste the knight for giggles, and to save you a couple Really Healthy Potions, go for it.