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# Frequently asked question number 1: What’s the best way to get leather.
Well, obviously, sent your minions out to elven settlements to skin them for their hide and demand they send you tribute.
More elfhide is good, and you need large amounts of leather for the best early game furniture(Bookcases, Trapdoors) and for training the best troop types (Dark Elves and Thieves).
**There are three sizes of elf settlement, and four sizes of elf fort**.
Villages are referred to with the shorthand T1.
> **Villages** can successfully be safely raided safely by a level 10 orc, 2 level 5 orcs, 3 level 3 orcs, a level 14 thief, two level 6 thieves, two level 8 dark elves or one level 15 dark elf.
A village will normally give you approximately **400 resources per raid** , up to 100 gold and up to 300 random other resources, of which the most likely is leather. Note, each creature has a Carry Capacity, this is displayed in the creatures tab or will popup when selecting creatures to launch raids- **sending a raiding party out with less carry capacity than you can get resources is generally a poor idea**.
> **Towns** need a higher level of creatures. The game says 6 level 25 orcs. The game is correct here. If you really like slow, lumbering, vulnerable orcs then training 6 orcs to level 25 is viable. **Most players don’t though**.1
A Town will give you approximately 2000 resources, of which up to 500 will be gold and up to 1500 will be random other stuff.
Therefore, **to raid a town, you need at least 2000 carry capacity** in your raiding party, about 2500 is better to minimise casualty risk. In the early game therefore **a single level 30ish orc and a group of 4 thieves and dark elves** coming in behind him will work, and level 10 dark elves are easy without needing a Temple or Vigilant Guard Houses. When you can get more resources together, switching to 5 level 30, 3 level 50 or 2 level 75 dark elves or thieves in combination is faster and more effective.
> **Cities**. Cities are massive, their defences are strong, you need to _really_ know what you’re doing to raid a city. It will be some time before you have the forces needed, and it will need a dedicate dungeon designed for the purpose to carry it off. If you’re interested in learning more, this thread on the Official NOG forum is a very good primer:
> [Hit liKe a Truck-a guide to city raiding](http://forum.nightowlgames.net/showthread.php?17284-Hit-like-a-Truck)
**Elf Forts**. DO NOT TRY TO RAID ELF FORTS
There, that bit was simple. If you want to know why, send an untrained level 1 unit to have a poke around in some. When it dies, dismiss it but look at the battle report tab to see what the defenders were. Think you can beat that? Grand, I want to see the battle playback, I don’t.
## Reprisals and Hate generation.
> Elf settlements are “defended” by nearby elf forts. Whenever you raid a settlement, they tell the forts that protect them that you’ve stolen some of their stuff and killed some of their people- **this is called Hate generation**. If you do this enough times, the forts will send out a “reprisal” attack on the dungeon that did the raiding. **Some players refer to these as the elves providing tribute** , as successfully defeating them lets you **loot their bodies for gold and tan their hides for leather**.
When you hit a settlement, you generate hate equal to 10% of the amount of resources stolen, and an amount depending on the number and level of defenders killed-a typical successful raid on a village will get approximately 50 to 60 hate. This Hate is assigned to _each_ fort listed as a defender of the village. 2
> **Forts will start launching raids once your hate score has reached a certain threshold** , the size of the reprisal is based on the amount of hate accrued by that dungeon, and the chance of you being the target is your hate score divided by all the hate that fort has generated by all players within its range.
Each reprisal is given a Hate score when launched, this is an indication of the size of the force sent, **Hate 100 reprisals are typically 2 or 3 low level elf footmen** that orcs can easily squash. When launched, the amount of Hate in the reprisal is knocked off your remaining score at the fort. It follows that **if you stop raiding elves, reprisals will slowly become less common** as your hate dissipates.
In the early stages of the game, **most reprisals will be very low level** , you don’ t need to worry about them as long as your forces are at home when they hit. However, as your hate levels increase _with each separate fort_, the size of the reprisals increases. Further data is needed to decide what hate levels at the fort trigger each level of sized reprisals (and this thread will be updated when we get confirmed information)3
**Each fort has a range**. Keeps, the smallest (F1s) protect villages within 5 squares. Castles, the second size (F2), protect settlements within 10 squares. Fortresses, the largest currently active (F3), protect settlements within 20 squares-with each region being a 30\*30 square, this is normally most of the map, it’s worth looking at the whole region to make sure you’re not missing one. Citadels, F4s, are not currently set to launch reprisals, this is almost certainly a good thing for our poor creatures.
The strength of an attack launched against you is determined _entirely_ by the amount of Hate you have. **The size of the fort makes no difference to this** , in the early game F3s are no more lethal than F1s.
What does make a difference is reprisal frequency and area covered.
**Keeps** will launch between 3 and 5 reprisal strikes against _different_ dungeons every 60 to 240 minutes. As they cover a very small area, and launch reprisals regularly, this means they dissipate their Hate very quickly and their strikes are rarely scary.
**Castles** will launch between 2 and 5 attacks at an interval of between 50 and 300 minutes. As they cover a wider area, your %age of hate with each Castle will be lower, so your chance of one of those strikes being directed at you is also reduced, however enough raids are typically launched that the reprisal size will stay within defendable levels _as long as_ your dungeon is setup to defend itself (A completely different topic for a later date).
**Fortresses** will launch between 3 and 9 strikes at different dungeons at intervals between 360 and 720 minutes. It is therefore possible the Fortress will only launch two sets of reprisals per day. As they cover most of, if not all, of an entire region, **Fortresses dissipate Hate slowly** , meaning an active player will normally accrue increasing amounts of Hate from the fortress. **Eventually, the power of the reprisals may become overwhelming**.
Note, at all points the reprisal size is random from the smallest possible strike to the largest possible given your Hate score. This means that if the Fortress does finally hit you, it could be a measly Hate 100 hit or it could be much much larger-if you’ve gained a big enough Hate score.
Many players, when looking to establish a strong leather farming dungeon, will try to seek settlements to raid that are protected by a large number of F1 and F2 sized forts, but protected by a minimal number of F3 forts-in some regions it’s possible to avod F3s altogether-this is my, personal, preferred strategy. Others seek to simply provoke as many forts as possible, regardless of size, and some like to scour the map for that rare beast, a settlement with no defenders at all.
Experience has shown that the leather and gold acquired from killing reprisal elves is a massive boost to the war effort, but that having dungeons wiped out by angry Fortresses with scarily big reprisal strikes is rather costly. **Finding the right balance, and monitoring Hate levels at all forts in your area, is an essential part of the game**.
1 **Orcs are Protector class** , commonly referred to as Tanks, Damage Per Second Units like **Thieves and Dark Elves are far better at elf raiding** , Orcs are good in defence and large PVP fights though.
2 There is currently a bug in this code, some settlements at the extreme edge of protection range for forts think they’re defended but actually aren’t, see this thread for details
The village right by my starter dungeon in Angel Vale on Necropolis is unfortunately one of those affected by this.
3 Hate 100 sized strikes can start immediately your hate score is over 100, they’re piddling strikes that trained orcs and warlocks can deal with. Reprisal levels then scale up, it’s believed hate 500 reprisals start if you get over 1000 hate, hate 1000 reprisals start at 5000, hate 1500 strikes at 10,000, hate 2000 strikes at 20,000, 3K at 50,000 and 4K at about 80,000. Hate 5K strikes start at some point over 100,000 accrued hate. I have never had my forces survive a hate 5000 strike on Infernal Abyss.
However, these numbers are currently educated speculation based on observation, the more players that report this data either to this thread or to the comments area of the [Hate Generation](http://dungeonoverlord.wikia.com/wiki/Hate_Generation) page on the Player Wiki the more accurate we can predict it.
Received a Hate 800 reprisal in my leather farm today, killed a Warlock. It appears to have triggered when my Hate was at 2400ish on an F2. 8 Elves in 3 waves, the last of which was a level 8 warlock, a level 5 ranger and 2 level 8 rangers. All of whom targeted my already wounded level 20 warlock.
Consequently, I’ve moved the library even further into a different corner, and plan to remove Warlocks from that base and replace with Dark Elves as soon as I’m able.
Yeah, I got to the stage very quickly after that started happening to not raid elves with my main research centre, 2 bases playing poke-the-elf is enough to feed me and several other players with the leather habit I’ve found, if they’re positioned right.
Carry Capacity, a worked example1
Base carry capacity
Dark Elf: 90
Target: 2000 carry minimum (slightly more is better for creature survival and attack reliability)
Carry goes up by 20% of base per level, so +5 levels is same as another level 1
Ergo 2000/125=16 level 1 thieves
2000/90=22 level 1 dark elves 2
Level 26 Thief = 6 units
Level 16 dark elf= 4 units
3 level 26 thieves should therefore have enough carry to take the T2, but **will not be** strong enough without stat bonuses. 3 level 40s are much more reliable. Stat bonuses from a level 4 tavern would be useful here.
6 level 16 dark elves would manage it effectively. 4 level 30s would be better.
Note, that’s the bare minimum needed, you’d need to ensure room bonuses like the Temple taskmaster were in effect and healing furniture would likely be needed, they’re unlikely to die but each raid might not be a complete success.
1 ie I want to know for myself and writing it down here is as good a place as any.
2 You really don’t want to do it with a swarm of level 1s, many of them will die each time even if they do manage it.
Just a little addenda, this is a good a place as any to put it. Reprisal strengths scale really badly after 3000. Hate 4000 and Hate 5000 strikes are lethal and they trigger fairly early. I took a 5K reprisal when I had about 125K hate on a warbase once-I'd misstimed a strike so not all the army was at home, but even if everything had been there.
--------------- Summary ----------------
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 07:16:58 -0400
Attacker: NPC ()
Location - RegionID: 6 DungeonID: 1240
Defender: MatGB (5.Plagueholme)
Location - RegionID: 6 DungeonID: 390654
Attack Type: RaidDungeon
Attack Target: Arena
Series 1 of 1
----------- Combat Details -----------
Total Attackers: 40 (24 Survived, 16 Killed)
Total Defenders: 13 (1 Survived, 12 Killed)
Control Points Lost (Sapper attacks?): 0
Gold lost: 0
Gold won: 0
----------- Creature Details -----------
Cleric L61 x 1
Cleric L64 x 1
Cleric L66 x 1
Cleric L70 x 1
Cleric L71 x 1
Cleric L84 x 1
Cleric L90 x 1
Cleric L97 x 1
ElfWizard L65 x 1
ElfWizard L68 x 1
ElfWizard L73 x 2
ElfWizard L79 x 1
ElfWizard L89 x 1
ElfWizard L90 x 1
ElfWizard L92 x 1
ElfWizard L96 x 1
ElfWizard L99 x 1
Footman L59 x 1
Footman L62 x 1
Footman L76 x 2
Footman L89 x 1
Ranger L80 x 1
Cleric 65 x 1
Cleric 87 x 1
ElfWizard 52 x 1
ElfWizard 57 x 1
Footman 53 x 1
Footman 56 x 1
Footman 57 x 1
Footman 67 x 1
Footman 71 x 1
Footman 77 x 1
Footman 84 x 1
Footman 90 x 1
Ranger 54 x 1
Ranger 57 x 1
Rogue 67 x 1
Rogue 79 x 1
DarkElf L100 x 1
DarkElf 50 x 2
DarkElf 65 x 1
DarkElf 80 x 1
DarkElf 100 x 1
Ogre 20 x 1
Ogre 30 x 2
Succubus 80 x 1
Succubus 90 x 1
Thief 60 x 2
An extra note about the faults in using solo thieves against T1s:
Once detected, a solo thief will fail against t1 rangers; It will lose a majority of its health or its life. I would suggest 2 lvl 6 thieves over 1 thief of any level (level is irrelevant because the loss is caused by an AI weakness).