[The Grinns Tale] Tier 6

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So they have added a new tier, tier 6. Thoughts and ideas, do you like it? Personally I think that the T6 knight looks ridicules and is not nearly a good enough improvement over the T5 set to warrant the ridiculesness of the outfit

 
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You mean Berzerker?

The chest piece is actually worse than T5. The helm is a side grade from the t4.5 you get in Infinite. Only the weapon is better, and only just.

I hope the other t6 pieces are actually good. I’d like a knight set where he can actually attack unhasted.

 
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aside aesthetic which looks sweet, I see the difference in stats is very low. Knight’s rhino spear has even less def now ie.
Considering the cost of making them..I think I’ll just admire the view, and enjoy my (some of) refined t5 sets.

I was expecting some major change in stats, like extra speed, like soldier/savant/shaman set..That REALLY would be a change that would make me manufacture those sets.

 
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plus, I don’t see any of’em has any useful ability added (or a new one)
not much of a surprise. Sad to say, but already I’m not very fond of them :(

 
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I can only see the t6 berserker, knight, and adventurer, but none of them seem better than t5. They are marginally better at best, and the effort you’d need to go through to make them isn’t worth it. Not even close to worth it. A refined t5 set will be better than a regular t6 set. You’d be better off spending your time on that unless the devs rethink how bad their t6 sets are.

I was expecting a juiced up t6 with huge boosts in speed, attack, and defense, but the 3 t6 sets I can see all lose speed and gain only a couple points in attack and defense. It’s really underwhelming and makes me wish I hadn’t wasted so many hours crafting t5 gear.

 
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…and I changed my mind, looking at adventurer’s looks a little more…in general, my toons will look completely RETARDED, facing scary stuff I didn’t even see yet (haven’t been pass floor 46) c’mon devs, rogue (adventurer) in a monkey costume, equipped with a branch? wtf..that’s not how a tough rogue on floor 51 should look like, having a monkey head half the size of a screen, ffs..having caricature toons was enough, this is simply way beyond retarded.

“It’s really underwhelming and makes me wish I hadn’t wasted so many hours crafting t5 gear.”

I share the same feeling, I don’t want all that long time grinding for t5 was spent for nothing, so I’ll have fun with those sets for a while, later..if nothing much changes..well..it’s been fun.

 
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wiz set looks good enough to bother…. except no special ability. who is gonna swap life steal for a bit more attack when you have to give up rage?

 
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Originally posted by Azrealol:

I hope the other t6 pieces are actually good. I’d like a knight set where he can actually attack unhasted.

I think that all T6 items suck for now. The T6 archer hasn’t been mentioned, he looks like a giant fox half the size of the screen (like the others), and he is actually worse than T5! Only +4 speed against +7 speed for honored, and almost no improvement in other stats! It’s probably a first try from the dev, it’s likely that he’ll improve them in the future.

If you want a knight that can attack without being hasted, the T5 knight already does that ; actually the refined T5 knight. All refined T5 items (3 speed) + refined set bonus (2 speed) + refined shaman paint (2 speed) = a speed of 14 in total!

 
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Wow, I had no idea that so many idiots play this game. T6 has marginally better stats than refined t5? Really? Wake up you dumbasses, that’s true for (almost) every tier! Untill you can see full refined t6 and set bonus, kindly STFU. There are quite a few lower tier sets that have extra speed as refined set bonus, so more crafting, less QQ. Not to mention that “marginally better stats” are what makes or breaks close fights, why do you think my famous RT2 team almost all wear refined Explorer scarf? Because even single point of damage counts. This game rounds down everything, so that 1 extra point might be difference between getting for example haste 11 instead of 10 or surviving with 1hp and being able to strike back instead of forcing you to use revive pot or between killing Mother Spider and letting it live with 2hp and spawn spider.
Let’s look at wizard, since right now it’s the only one on wiki:
T3 – Magician: attack 29, defence 32, speed 0, health 38. Savant: attack 6, defence 46, speed 12, health 63.
T4 – Plague doctor: attack 34 (5 points higher than Magician/28 higher than Savant), defence 41 (9 higher/5 lower!), speed 3 (3 higher/9 lower!), health 58 (20 higher/5 lower!).
T5 – Mojomancer: attack 50 (16 higher than previous tier), defence 68 (27 higher), speed 4 (1 higher), health 96 (41 higher).
T6 – Crow trifles: attack 68 (18 higher than previous tier), defence 80 (12 higher), speed 4 (no change), health 104 (8 higher).
T6 gives even more attack than T5 with small bonus in other stats, nothing really surprising. Compare it to T4 vs T3 Savant: huge attack boost, lower other stats. T4 vs T3 Magician: low all stat boost. Just because T5 was huge jump from T4, it doesn’t make it rule that every next tier dwarfs previous one. In fact, it makes it exception rather than rule. Defence (putting aside fact that it’s not really important on mage) can’t rise 20+ every tier, because it would make old monsters hit you for single digits, which would require new monsters to have insanely huge attack to be dangerous again, which would in turn create unnecessairy gear check and made new tier mandatory.
In conclusion: new tier is fine, you just had ridiculous expectations and/or need to learn basic math. Just because it doesn’t fit your playstyle (no ridiculously high speed) doesn’t mean it’s bad.

 
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personaly i dont wanted t6 to be implemented to game at all, HATE power creep in games. So its not too high stats are good , i just wonder if refined version is rich kid, pixie dust only, rich toy with huge bonuses. THAT would make me sad.

 
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@Seizan : Just look at the T6 archer and the T6 adventurer. They are actually worse than their T5 equivalents! The T6 archer loses 3 speed in comparison to the T5 one (who already has only 15 speed), for just a very minor gain in attack! Just don’t give a bow to a giant fox ;)

And seriously, stop insulting people just because you disagree with them, that’s not cool.

 
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I don’t see the problem with the archer. You can use the T6 head with the T5 set so it’s an improvement for sure.

 
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t6 wizard compared to t5 has 18 more attack, 12 more defense, and 8 more health. BUT there’s no set ability, so you lose life steal II. Plus you need to spend a ton of resources and time upgrading. It’s not worth it at all. Even if it were free I wouldn’t take it. The other t5 to t6 class comparisons are about the same.

And yes, since t5 was a huge jump from t4 we should expect another big jump to t6. t5 is ridiculously tedious and costly to produce and you’re rewarded for your efforts with a much better version than t4. t6 is mind-numbingly tedious and the reward we get for our efforts doesn’t reflect the amount of effort we have to go through. Not even close.

Life is about incentives, Seizan. There’s no incentive to get t6. It actually disincentivizes people from playing the game until the “end” because the reward won’t match your effort. Once the devs give us an incentive to keep playing I’ll think about coming back to the game. Right now it’s a grind fest with no reward.

 
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Originally posted by TZwien:

t6 wizard compared to t5 has 18 more attack, 12 more defense, and 8 more health. BUT there’s no set ability, so you lose life steal II. Plus you need to spend a ton of resources and time upgrading. It’s not worth it at all. Even if it were free I wouldn’t take it. The other t5 to t6 class comparisons are about the same.

And yes, since t5 was a huge jump from t4 we should expect another big jump to t6. t5 is ridiculously tedious and costly to produce and you’re rewarded for your efforts with a much better version than t4. t6 is mind-numbingly tedious and the reward we get for our efforts doesn’t reflect the amount of effort we have to go through. Not even close.

Life is about incentives, Seizan. There’s no incentive to get t6. It actually disincentivizes people from playing the game until the “end” because the reward won’t match your effort.

have you seen refined version? NO? So why you are talking that T6 isnt much stronger than t5 and has no set bonuses? Unrefined T5 knight is also crappy while refined gains not only lot of stats but also 4 speed. Go buy lot of keys ,to get refining dust if u want to have good T6 :D

 
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Yeah. Hold on while I spend a couple hundred dollars to make a moderately fun game marginally more fun.

 
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Isn’t the real issue people have not the fact that they can get all for free but that they can’t get it for free, instantly and without any need to be patient or do effort?

 
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Now all the T6 sets are on the wiki. And the message is clear : refined sets are not better than non-refined ones in any way. The best bonus I saw in a full refined set is +1 speed compared to the non-refined set, I’m not kidding. Of course I’m disregarding minor bonuses such as +7 attack or such because they are negligible. So refining them gives nothing, it’s not at all like T5 knight where refining was awesome :(

So the the question becomes : which T6 set doesn’t completely suck, and why?

I would say knight is below expectations but not completely nuts (plus 50 def compared to T5 should be pretty good against thrunks and the like, even though you’re back to a speed of 7) ; berserker is OK (plus 60 def compared to T5 with no penalties), and wizard is barely OK (+18 attack compared to T5, but -3 speed compared to refined T5).

 
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Originally posted by strategyfan:
And seriously, stop insulting people just because you disagree with them, that’s not cool.

They fail at basic math AND english. Saying that 5 extra hp is worse is just plain stupid. I’m not disagreeing with people, I’m calling them what they are. If you say 2+2 = 3 then you’re stupid and that’s NOT matter of opinion, it’s a goddamn FACT. You might not like T6, you might think it doesn’t fit your strategy (no Life Steal) and that’s ok with me. But saying that set which has every stat superior is worse is just plain stupid. At best we could argue it’s different. But worse? Not in any meaning of this word.

Originally posted by TZwien:

t6 wizard compared to t5 has 18 more attack, 12 more defense, and 8 more health. BUT there’s no set ability, so you lose life steal II.

Which only makes Rage Mage™ better against spikeys. You’re trying to make my point? LS on wizard is mediocre at best to begin with. If it makes or breakes your playstyle, it doesn’t mean set is bad. It simply means it doesn’t fit your current strategy. World of difference.

And yes, since t5 was a huge jump from t4 we should expect another big jump to t6.

Now that’s just troll logic. T5 jump was EXCEPTION, NOT A RULE. Why can’t you people accept that?

t5 is ridiculously tedious and costly to produce and you’re rewarded for your efforts with a much better version than t4. t6 is mind-numbingly tedious and the reward we get for our efforts doesn’t reflect the amount of effort we have to go through. Not even close.

T5 costs were reduced, both for guild and gear. And if you keep whining I’ll suggest they reduce stats as well, to make T6 seem sooooo much better.

There’s no incentive to get t6.

Let me get this straight. You’re willing to spend crapload of hours and even more resources to get refined versions of T5, which have ridiculously small stat gain, but you refuse to craft next tier, which has much bigger stat gain? Help me understand, because it seems plain stupid.

Originally posted by strategyfan:
Of course I’m disregarding minor bonuses such as +7 attack or such because they are negligible.

And because of that you’re basically confirming my initial statement: this thread is full of stupid people. Come back when you learn that speed is not god, it’s not linear and unlike other stats can be increased by cleric via haste.

All T6 are superior to T5. End of story.



You know what? I feel like I have to repeat it to make sure everyone gets it: you were willing to spend crapload of hours and even more resources to get refined versions of T5 (and possibly all other tiers before), which have ridiculously small stat gain, but you refuse to craft T6, which has much bigger stat gain? What kind of troll logic is that? Think about T6 as refined-refined T5 if that helps you sleep better. Now can you see how ridiculous and hypocrytical “small stat gain” argument is? You were working hard all that time to get refined with tiny stat boost and when you get same thing with different name it’s suddenly bad?

 
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Originally posted by Seizan_7:
You know what? I feel like I have to repeat it to make sure everyone gets it : you were willing to spend crapload of hours and even more resources to get refined versions of T5 (and possibly all other tiers before), which have ridiculously small stat gain, but you refuse to craft T6, which has much bigger stat gain?

You really underestimate refined T5. Refining single-handedly gives +4 speed to a knight which cures the knight’s one and only weakness ; How awesome is that?!

Actually, speed is linear. a 10% increase in speed means a 10% increase in DPS, and a 10% increase in healing as well since in end game everyone depends on life steal for healing. So for example the refined T5 knight goes from 10 speed to 14 speed, meaning +40% to both DPS and survivability. So speed is indeed God in this game. Who’s not doing the math here?

Originally posted by Seizan_7:
All T6 are superior to T5. End of story.

I heavily disagree. Some T6 offer absolutely no improvement with respect to T5. They’re not worse, but they’re not better either. For T6 archer (with lens of looking) vs T5 archer, it adds 20 attack and 10 defense, but it removes 1 speed : the improvement is negligible. For refined T6 adventurer vs refined T5 adventurer, it adds 15 attack, 20 defense and 30 health, but it removes 4 speed : is it really worth it?

 
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Seizan, we understand you have personal issues. You can keep on disagreeing with people all you like, but you’re still not going to make any sense. It’s not our fault this is the only game you’re good at and you’re trying to defend its bad updates. You throw “logic” around like you understand what it means when you really don’t. You’re trying to sound smarter than people when you’re just a simple little punk.

The fact is that each tier is exponentially harder to achieve. When the stats don’t exponentially increase along with the time and effort needed to achieve that tier, it becomes less important to upgrade to the next tier and ruins incentives to keep upgrading and playing the game. This is a bad business model and the devs will realize this soon enough.

As for the actual stats between t5 and t6, a couple of them have a marginal increase, maybe 5-10% in a few stats while sacrificing speed. Losing speed pretty much negates all of the other stat increases for reasons strategyfan already pointed out.

 
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Speed is not linear has never been and will never be. How speed works is actually somewhat more complicated than I’ll care to explain but some examples will get us close enough, going from 6 speed to 12 speed is actually about a 33% increase in attacks per cycle, while a increase in speed from 200 to 400 is less than 1% more attacks per cycle.

You all are also comparing refined T5 to non refined T6 in most cases, similar to refined T4 to normal T5 the difference varies by class but is minor. Stats don’t need exponential increase between tiers, and again examples are what I’m going with here so your opponent deals 100 damage premitigation, your T5 knight has 49 armor and net takes 51 damage per attack, dying in two hits, your T6 knight has 51 armor (just 2 more), and now dies in 3 hits (living 50% longer!), please remember this is an example with numbers that are not direct from the game.

So if future floors are tuned to a reasonable difficulty they will be impossible in T4 gear, normal / hard in refined T5, easy / normal in refined T5 + some T6, and easier yet in refined T6. Personally I’m through floor 52 and mystbourne using only refined T4 and can look at T5 thinking the gain is minimal so why not upgrade mines sooner.

 
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Bad updates? Update is great. T6 is just a bit better than t5 . You DONT HAVE TO MAKE IT if u dont like it. 20 atack and 10 defence for archer is a lot ,speed is not important ,he get hastes. Zebra cleric is better than sultan and probably hastes for more ,so it covers for for most of t6 speed loses. Rhino guy has plenty more armour , against some monster its all that counts. Other classes maybe are not especialy better than refined t5 but still offer choice to players . So you got new content with new possibilities and you are whining without reason.

 
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t4 adventurer and knight to t5 is huge. Even refined t4 to regular t5 is massive. But the resources needed are also massive. This is why huge stat increases are necessary if the devs want people to keep upgrading and playing the game. If someone with refined t4 doesn’t want to upgrade to t5, there’s no way in hell they’ll ever want to upgrade to t6 (or 7, 8, 9, etc).

I always observed speed to be linear, but I don’t know for sure. My knight with 8 speed attacks about 33% of the time my adventurer does with 24 speed it seems.

Hasting is great if you don’t need to kill things quickly. Having 3 fast attackers with little HP or defense is much better than 2 slow attackers and a haste cleric.

 
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You are wrong here. I cant praise Grinns tale devs enough for their understanding of how bad power creep is for games. T6 is not intentended to be gamebreaker that makes all previous sets obsolete. It is designed as funny stuff for advanced players. You said “necessary if devs want ppl to keep ugrading AND playing the game” in one sntence. Those 2 things are separate issues. Imagine that i want to keep playing for years and NOT upgrading gear evry few weeks/months. I dont want to upgrade gear EVER. Played WOW for a year and payed for it 100 pounds (150$) Stopped playing when they itroduced “upgrade” to the game that made crap from my hard earned gear. If they rather just make more places to go with more monsters to kill i will keep paying them. So they lost customer and something like 500$,many other ppl feel the same. There are plenty games that follow power creep model in their development and if it is something you are looking for then go play them. And there are very few games like Grinns Tale that are well thought and with developers who care about making it fun. Not all games have to be the same , if there is a game that is significantly better dont complain its not retarded like many others.

 
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So you’re just going to grind infinite dungeon the rest of your life? It’s not like this game is some huge expansive universe that you can play for weeks or months on the same character level like free roam RPGs. This game has a few dungeons geared towards mid game characters that would take an hour to complete. Other than that the game is clearly upgrading its end game more than anything else.

So when you say to keep upgrading and playing the game are two separate issues you’re missing the point completely. The whole point of the game is to keep progressing up the tower. To do that you need to keep upgrading. There’s no other option unless you want to keep grinding Ironbound and Halvarian Peak forever. That’s also why it’s not possible for power creep to affect this game. It’s not like they’re going to keep creating mid game dungeons for your level 20-somethings to play forever with their t4 gear. If they released t10 gear it wouldn’t affect that stage of the game at all.