[Dungeon Overlord] The Tutorial, Please Improve it

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I know it’s a dead horse, I know we’ve talked about it before, but it needs talking about again…

The game tutorial is desperately in need of a revamp. We assumed on the prior servers that it was a problem. On Kong, all you have to do is log into the game and watch the chat to realize how much trouble people are having with it.

Simple changes, like making sure no matter what a player does they cannot get “stuck” for building something they shouldn’t.

The pace needs to be quicker, it needs to catch a player’s attention and get them on the map asap. With at least minimal instruction as to what to do when they actually land on the map. IE: what to look for in a second dungeon, how to scout, etc.

It would be a real bonus if the starter dungeon layout it suggests was one that doesn’t use hallways, and builds as a typical experienced player would build.

Moving the add a friend quest to after the overworld placement would be great, as adding friends in game prior to being on the map is painful at best.

 
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It would be also great if tbhe tutorial actually prepared players for the game. We see the same constant questions over and over in chat, things that should be part of the tutorial.

For instance : How do I get leather? What should I look for in my 2nd dungeon? Why shouldn’t I build 8 warlocks in my level 2 library? What does Hide do? How do I get more tiles?

People should not have to go to the Wiki to get basic gameplay concepts. Those should be in the goal of the tutorial. Explain what they will get for leveling, for research, get the player involved, so they understand the game, and don’t just walk away in the first 15 minutes, downrating the game without even seeing the playstyle.

 
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Support 100%.

Been saying this since the beta here. Its why i stopped using kong chat, and again have stopped going there now that the game has been featured and we have a large influx of players.

I do not play this game to answer the same 50 questions 1000 times. Thats a failure of tutorial design.

Utterly.

 
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What I really find lacking in the tutorial is an understanding of how research impacts the game.

Unless a player goes through the research trees, you have no idea that you need tech research to mine certain nodes, unlock certain rooms and creatures.

Especially hard since i took a diamond mine right off the bat thinking I had found something good, then realized i could not do anything with it.

Keep in mind i actually had to occupy the dungeon, and click on the node for it to pop up a box saying “requires NHBJBJBH to mine”. Very, very frustrating.

Another thing, somewhere it should state that the game world is persistent, and that it does not pause. Even in the tutorial…. I took a break for a day and came back to hungry critters and a full mine…

Without the chat interface, i would have quit. You should seriously look at your tutorial, first impressions, are really important if you want people to play your game.

 
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definatly agree with explaining reasearch, have a completly useless second dungeon, with diamond, quicksilver and admantie ore, all i use it for is farming, researching and a massive den (10×10, not even upgraded to level 4), so yeah, definiately a must.

 
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you can abandon that and look for better tam – just a thought

 
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I abandoned my first because I just chose the place next to my starter dungeon, not knowing any better. Unfortunately there were no remaining spots with Earth and Iron/Crystal. I went for an Iron/Iron/Crystal/Fire…
I’ve been reading guides pretty thoroughly but haven’t seen exactly how screwed I am for not having Earth or Water mines. I’m already having to send goblins out to Earth Mines that I surveyed in my starter mountain and am wondering if I should abandon ship again and look for another mountain farther away (got several level 3 rooms working on 4 Den/Mine). If I weren’t reading wiki’s and guides I’d be so lost I’d probably just quit outright.

 
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Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. I’ve managed to mess myself up (incidentally, is there any way of restarting?)

 
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Click, FWIW my first expansion this server was a Fire dungeon, you’ll need massive amounts of water in level 20+, not so much in the earlier game, it’s for training warlocks & thieves past 30 and upgrading your library and building bookcases.

But you will want earth-survey all nearby mountains, you have a GOOD expansion, I’d be happy with double iron fire, crystal’s a bonus, but find a good slot for your next base soon. If you can get kreds either by spending money or completing offers, early unlocks are VERY useful in this, you can have 2 more expansions by level 15 for 40 Dungeon Marks, that can really help. You don’t need it, but you will progress slower. Remote mining, and raiding, will help-for what it’s worth, razing a village will get you 500 earth and 500 water as a bonus, that’s not too hard to do if your bases are near each other and you use thieves from both.

However, the more time I spend on chat helping people, the more convinced I am that the current tutorial is damaging the game heavily, the dropoff rate is far too high, and a lot of potential long term players have stopped in the last week because of it. If NOG do want to rework it, I repeat my earlier made offer to work with them fully on it, rework it completely and make it into somethign that encourages the game to grow not stutter. It’s only the first handful of missions, it should be a really easy job to code.

 
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We have been discussing this, and I have been including the suggestions and concerns as part of my weekly report. We hope to make the Tutorial a better resource for getting started in Dungeon Overlord.

 
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Originally posted by NightOwl_Pellets:

We have been discussing this, and I have been including the suggestions and concerns as part of my weekly report. We hope to make the Tutorial a better resource for getting started in Dungeon Overlord.

great, but i do suggest you hurry if you can. You need to get it going while the flux of new players is still coming in. my two cents

 
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And you REALLY need to get it fixed for Kabam before you get multiple dead regions there as well. Launching another new server world when the current ones are still flawed is an interesting approach.

 
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FWIW, I went surveying around and found an Earth, Water, Crystal, Iron in a mountain a few spots over so I abandoned my 2nd dungeon again to take that spot, I’d already done it by the time ya posted Mat. =-)

About 24 hrs later I’m back to mostly level 3’s again and level 4 mine, generally doing okay. I lost some research/XP time, but I’ll have that back up and running in a day or so. Seems like it basically cost me a day which hurts but is not irrecoverable. I reckon I still should have my lesser stone binding in approximately a week, sooner if I can raid the copious inactives perhaps.

Maybe I’ll move back to my last spot for my 3rd dungeon. I’ll certainly have many mountains surveyed before making decisions this time tho.

 
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I think more than anything, the tutorial really needs to promote a better initial dungeon design. I feel like a lot of people end up awkwardly shuffling their rooms around once they realize how wrong they got it and often end up wasting quite a bit of gold fixing mistakes that they made before having any way to know better. Second dungeon placement would be key as well (so many players just pick the one right above them which is very rarely a great choice), along with a more in depth explanation of what the resources are and WHEN they become important.

 
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One way to speed the process of tutorial is to give out free ‘room upgrade’ artifacts. Also, give out more ‘basic’ ore to help the player speed through the process of needing certain amounts for room upgrades, creature upgrades etc.

 
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Another suggestion would be easing up on the tile count in the starter itself. Early play experience is terrible with the tight restrictions in what you can build. Keep the expansions the way they are, but a starting player should not feel boxed in right from the start. The drop off rate in new players is a multipart issue, so a hard look needs to be taken at retaining players that try the game. Working on advanced pvp is great, but, if you don’t improve the early game feel, there will be no one to play against.

Right now

Players have two choices : spend money on the starter pack for the 25 tiles to actually get a functional starter, or research LSB, starting from scratch, meaning they have to piddle around for a week with a small library and limited locks.

*assuming they even realize option 2 exists.

This gives an early game impression that to play well, you have to spend real cash to do it.
In chat i have lost count of the number of players who see the first few minutes and say “O, another pay to win game, sorry, i’m gone”

 
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Piggybacking on holy’s post, I really do understand the organizational temptation to attempt to monetize even at an early stage.

But this is ultimately a short sighted and self-defeating position.

 
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One of the things that are bothering me about the tutorial is that two of the quests make you use the in-game money. When I started, I didn’t know any better and spent them all on god knows what, so now I’m stuck with 3 coins not able to do anything with them.

 
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good point likeanonion… those quests are fully optional of course… and intended to train players how to use Dungeon Marks. (an important skill if you are going to get more dungeons and more tiles and more goblins.!)

 
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Originally posted by NightOwl_TheH:

good point likeanonion… those quests are fully optional of course… and intended to train players how to use Dungeon Marks. (an important skill if you are going to get more dungeons and more tiles and more goblins.!)

I didn’t do the buy items/finish quick quests for two reasons:
#1- the purchase crystal upgrade in the tutorial mentioned 1 week, and the one I could afford was 8 hours….
#2- I looked at the rewards- and neither one gave the in game money back (a fairly standard practice for these quests).