[Vorp!] Another little rant

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Aside from the horrible imbalance of ships which was mentioned in the other thread in this one, we will be discussing how back dooring is so in need of a nerf.

Backdooring: is the act of having a ship attack the side of your base killing the batteries and sometimes killing the emitter in the back.

Some ships are terrible at back dooring while some can easily murder a base in minutes.

Ant:
This tiny little sucker is literally the most overused ships in the game.
This thing like the hirudo is overpowered in it’s own right but not as extremely bs imbalanced like the hirudo.

The ant’s ability to kill a turret is horrifically overpowered. You can run in shoot your rockets and fire your gun and kill a turret in about 5 seconds flat then run away. That is utter bs because when being back doored you have ZERO chance of responding to that unless you literally expect it

Why is the missle + gun combo so god dang good against turrets? I have seen games where the superior team lost because of back dooring crap that goes on.

Not only that but, if the ant manages to get into trouble, it can TELEPORT out and go back in again. That is incredibly frustrating to see your turret getting attacked and by the time you get there, it is destroyed and you have no chance of catching the back doorer.

Even if the ant was gambling by not waiting for his warp skill to cooldown, he can just drop a mine when you are chasing it and THE MINES SLOWS YOU DOWN!!! The mines are also pretty big and swerving to avoid getting hit only puts more distance between you and the ant. That is the most sadistic thing i’ve ever seen.
Not only can you kill a turret in 5 seconds flat, but you can also teleport out or drop mines which makes it incredibly difficult to chase it!!

And to add salt to the already open wound, the ant HAS A MAX SPEED OF 150 THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE OF ANY SHIP!!

The ant is not good at taking on other ships as the hirudo but it is horrifically overpowered at killing your base and escaping!!!!!

Aside from the ant there also another ship that is very overpowered at back dooring, the Clanknor

This thing is able to kill a turret even faster than an Ant and not only that but it leaves a little turret to kill the battery or the emitter if YOUR NOT PAYING ATTENTION.

This little turret is the most insane thing I have ever seen, it is able to kill a turret about as fast as the Ant and when you add in the insane damage of the Clanknor’s shotgun you can imagine how this thing just steamrolls any base like it is nothing.

Although the clanknor is slow, it is able to drop a wall that instantly blocks most ships from chasing it!!! The wall the clanknor drop is very long and avoiding it is very hard. Running into the wall bounces you back and wastes even more time and puts more distance!! You can tear the wall down but you need to do more than 1000 damage to destroy it!!! A fully upgraded iron wolf which has very high dps takes 2-3 seconds to destroy the wall and usually it is better to go around.

Now what if you were driving say a shinobi or even a circe. You can teleport through the wall but in the case of the shinobi, unless the clank health is low, you will have a hard time killing it because of your low dps and the clank’s MASSIVE HEALTH POOL!!

In rare cases, you can get lucky and teleport over the wall with a circe but chasing anything with the circe is SADISTIC unless the guy’s health is so low he overheated.

Another ship that is good at killing the base is the circe, the circe can simply shoot it’s omen sphere and cause massive damage then duck behind a wall and shoot at it with it’s main attack and finish it off without any risk of being shot it. Chasing a circe is even harder than a clank or the ant because it can deploy an area of effect field that SLOWS YOU DOWN BIG TIME. Not only that but it can teleport multiple times and temporary increasing it’s health at the same time and make it into the depot.
Chasing a circe is also risky because you can quickly die because of it’s attack.

The turrets do a lot of dmg and has plenty of health but when faced against these ships, they don’t last long enough to dish out the damage they need. Even if an attack fails and leaves the turret standing , the turret’s health regen is way too low to recover quickly enough before another strike comes.

IT TAKES ZERO SKILL TO FIGHT AGAINST AI TARGETS AND WINNING SHOULD NOT REQUIRE YOU TO DO SO.

FIX THE BACK DOORING DEVS BUFF THE TURRETS, INCREASE IT’S RANGE OR REGENERATION OR ANYTHING FIX IT!!!!!!!!

 
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rainmaker turrets are terrible at shooting moving targets except when the target is moving straight into the turret.

Just saying.

 
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Yah AI should be buffed a lot, backdooring is a cheap way to points. I don’t mind the tactic but the AI should be a LOT stronger or at least scale a little so turret hunters have a much harder time as everyone else levels.

 
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drones/ai should get harder to kill/deal more damage as time passes. Almost like the creeps in DotA, which spawn stronger as time passes. Like what Ivellios99 said

 
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You see problems that you want someone else to solve.

I see challenges to overcome.

Edit: Was reffering to the posts by Master

 
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edited.

 
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Sorry, was referring to Master and his posts.

 
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Not sure what the balance issue is, both teams have access to these ships, fight one with another one, or its hard counter. The game shouldn’t last 50 mins. Somewhere between 10-20 is fine, why prolong it? Fighting turrets isn’t for everyone. It seems to me, more mature players ( ones that have been around longer) tend to go more for a pvp style, and nubs, like myself, try more for the easier targets. Seems to me there is a bit here for everyone.

 
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There is bit for everyone, just some people don’t see that.

 
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lack not everyone has access to every ship in the game. The issue is that skilless noobs can win the game without even trying often.

 
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Originally posted by LackOfSkill:

Not sure what the balance issue is, both teams have access to these ships, fight one with another one, or its hard counter. The game shouldn’t last 50 mins. Somewhere between 10-20 is fine, why prolong it? Fighting turrets isn’t for everyone. It seems to me, more mature players ( ones that have been around longer) tend to go more for a pvp style, and nubs, like myself, try more for the easier targets. Seems to me there is a bit here for everyone.

Unfortunately though, the game rewards PVE gameplay more, easier and more lucrative. I’ve seen “vets” who gun for base as quickly as possible, and they’re far more difficult to defend, even with defenders (as spower has mentioned because with a ship like ANT has a backstage pass and a trap door under the stage, I don’t want to discuss further but you guy the idea). The moment a turret/battery is down, the gameplay changes quickly. Most of the time, the aggressors can afford to play aggressive, putting the other team on perma defense against big battles in the middle, while having 1-2 (the usual base bashers), play with the batts. This is a situation where it becomes difficult, as the defenders usually will be underleveled to face off against the other team.

Also, unrushed matches should last between 20-30 minutes, which is still enough IMO.

 
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Originally posted by keynup:

There is bit for everyone, just some people don’t see that.

Just that the Best and highest skilled Player who is doing PvP will loose every game because the very bad Player who dont even need to know where his own Depot is. Who dont need to know how to fly backwards. The bad Player who dont even need to know that diing gives Enemy Level advantage. Those Bad Players are going for PVE only and will win the games.

Its like Football Germany vs Lichtenstein. Just with the difference that Lichtenstein gets at start +10 goals.

Welll keynup. You and all your stupid PVE friends will stay playing this game with 20 other people until the DEV´s stop listening to you.
Here on Kong are many many many Single Player games where you can have fun. Why PPL´s like you have to destroy one of the most fantastic PvP game here?

 
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@ masa, Oh well, a couple of your posts had gotten nicer. I guess your back to normal now.
I’ve never said I want a PvE game. As I indicated your quote of me, I want a PvP&E. This is a nice game, but they still have a long way to go to make it good.

I would normally make some more comments, but I’d probably just get insulted by masa for them so I won’t bother.

 
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80% skilless backdooring 10% pvp 10% raging over the ridiculous problems with the game

 
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Even though many ppl are disagreeing with master, i have to say that he does have a point. If the other team has a clank and an ant, you will automatically lose unless you have a undul, clank, and an ant. I hate all this backdooring simply because most MOBAs simply do not allow this backdooring. Take LOL and DotA for example. NO ONE IS RUNNING AROUND SLAUGHTERING STRUCTURES SOLO. It takes a dedicated push from the whole team to take it down. Ever since I started playing as a hirudo, i notice more and more backdooring that I can’t really defend because the hirudo isn’t that fast. Plus, going up against a clank in a hirudo is also dangerous due to the massive shotgun dmg. 1/3 my health is gone from one blast! Just add the wall as an escape to that as well. As for the ant, it is so speedy and the teleportation is so OP because of the 40s? CD. All they do is run in, kill off 1-2 turrets and tp out. What can you do? Nothing. Especially when mid is getting pushed and the ant is having fun with 2 batts and the clank is also having fun with the other 2 batts. So the defenders have to defend 4 batts, mid, and the second emitter? Thats impossible. Especially when one of your teammates doesn’t even KNOW HOW TO USE AFTERBURNERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even though my rating right now is really low(1197), i am not that noob that feeds the other team and doesn’t really know how to do anything. I know how to play a hirudo and I have to say this backdooring really needs to stop especially with this OP clank/ant. NERF THEM! I can’t continuously use my hirudo as a defender since it is a harasser/semi-pusher/semi-hunter. I want this MOBA to be a even mix of PvP and PvE. NOT ALL PVE! I DON"T THINK THAT A SINGLE SHIP SHOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE DOWN STRUCTURES. STOP THIS SOLO BACKDOORING!

 
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So to sum up the posts from the last few weeks: Newbies are good, newbies are garbage, all of the ships except Angelfire are overpowered unless you are up against Hiru, if you PvE your opponents will hate you, and if you PvP your teamates will hate you for not PvE’ing, if you are good at PvP’ing your teamates MIGHT forgive you, but the other team will hate you for being good.

Really people? I will admit there are problems that I would like to see solved, but the biggest one I see is that some players have poor sportsmanship. Really, if you want to see the game get better, be a better sport and stop driving other players away. More interest in this game will lead to further development where your concerns will likely be addressed.

 
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@Kiech I don’t drive people away from this game. I really want to see more people actually playing this game. I am just saying that I don’t think that solo structure killing should be allowed. Either increase tower range, buff it up, increase regen, increase dmg etc. I don’t want 2 ships just to be so OP that having it on your team will guarantee a win.

 
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@Commiepanda If you aren’t one of the people berating others in the game and generally polite, than thank you. However, you are ignoring the fact that the strategy in this game is a lot more complex than simple PvP or PvE. Stop thinking Checkers and start thinking Stratego/Rock-Paper-Scissors.

So the big question: how do you counter the Ant?
– Backdoor him right back.
– Take advantage of the fact that the front line battle is now 4v5 and roll through the main defenses.
– Guard the point of entry. You KNOW the Ant/whatever will be coming through the side entrance, so guard it! Even if you aren’t that good at PvP, the Ant has very limited energy, so if they fight you, they will have to go back to base and recharge before attempting again. Usually this only requires one player.

 
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@Kiech Thank you for those tips. I know these tips. I can PvP easily in the hirudo but hirudo simply is not that defensive. I commonly go harass the ant due to its low energy pool. I usually manage to force it back. But it is also hard to backdoor with the hirudo because it isn’t really that good at taking down turrets. It needs a teammate or distraction. Also, it is mainly that some of my teammates can’t seem to hold the front line by themselves. This requires my help and assistance in order to make sure those 3 crucial turrets don’t fall. Since I can’t be everywhere at once, I need someone else to defend unless they are already harassing someone else. I will defend if someone is backdooring while I am at my depot or when I have a decent amount of health. As for rolling through mid, it is certainly tough when everyone is hungry for levels. Everyone is generally pretty squishy and we really need to steamroll through with masses of drone support. But I thank you for your tips and I will pass them on to my teammates in the future.

 
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I think that the best solution to the problem discussed here is to extend the slowing shields into the left and right passages, perhaps tying them to the shieldturrets or their adjoining batteries. Wouldn’t stop a creative circe, but it would make backdooring in an ANT or Clank a helluvalot harder.
The shield would make escape impossible once a lone offender is discovered, and make them think twice before entering…just like the shield in the middle does. Any other ideas?

 
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Originally posted by keynup:

@ masa, Oh well, a couple of your posts had gotten nicer. I guess your back to normal now.
I’ve never said I want a PvE game. As I indicated your quote of me, I want a PvP&E. This is a nice game, but they still have a long way to go to make it good.

I would normally make some more comments, but I’d probably just get insulted by masa for them so I won’t bother.

There has to be NO discussion about mixing PVP with PVE. It has to be a PVP game. And turrets and the other stuff has to be used for tactical situations to get advantage in PvP. Not 1 little piece more!

When i want to destroy PVE stuff like structures i play Tower Defense games or other stuff in that region. When i want PVP i want to kill Players. And when im in a 1vs2 or 1vs3 situation im happy when theres a turret behind me that helps me getting safe or killing those Enemy Players.
BUT I DONT WANT TO HELP TURRETS OR STRUCTURES STAYING ALIVE!
It is ME or my TEAMMATES who got the control about win or loose. Not a fucking Tower or Battery!

 
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@masa stop trying to change the game to suit yourself.
When other people don’t like a game, they don’t play it.

 
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In additon to extending the shield down the sides of the board consider also that if a ship is behind an enemy shield they cannot teleport back to their base. In the fashion of startrek, you cannot transport through shields that are up. Once the shield is down in that area, you can teleport home from that area. Creating that limitation would completely change the dynamic of the ships which have that ability, or players that choose the OPS for that purpose. Of course players can transport through their own sides shield.

Just a thought. Either that or make a different board with no back doors and way more towers.

 
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Originally posted by TheLaughingCow:

@masa stop trying to change the game to suit yourself.
When other people don’t like a game, they don’t play it.

Go and play Tetris.

Me and a LOT others played this game WAY WAY earlier than you.
And we ALL left because of the PVE line this game is going now.
If you want to play your stupid PVE shit with your 5 left friends in this game then go and play something else and let us 200 other Players play PvP again.

Btw how much Cash youve spend for this game until now?
I bet not 1$. Players like you are those who are killing small companys like Endgames because no cash = no game!

 
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I feel like I need to say this… extending the barriers won’t make me backdoor less in Circe unless they fix the small glitch that Ghost Field has which allows you to ignore all slows, rather than just self-slows. Extending the range of the turrets will have absolutely no effect on me at all (I usually tank shots as Circe to aim an Omen Sphere, and then fly around avoiding the rest of them while shooting Bindu Bolts). If you want to fix backdooring, you are going to have to increase the passive regeneration of towers, and perhaps increase their HP. The regeneration is especially important, because it will hopefully make it critical to down the tower, rather than to just damage it, making a responsive team much more successful at tower defense (the enemy loses all their damage on the tower by running away).

Of course, a Circe doesn’t backdoor quite as quickly or as lethally as a Clank or an ANT do… but it can still do a REALLY good job of taking down turrets. Not so much structures… but turrets can be taken down in about 5-7 seconds. To take down buildings, it relies on teammates or an unreactive enemy team, of course.

While I don’t despise the PvE meta as much as most (it allows Circe to shine in a meta of otherwise very PvP-oriented ships), I do agree that right now the game focuses on it far too much. Defenses need to be made stronger; and yet, not too strong. Sending single players to take down multiple targets is a valid strategy, however, it should only be successful when the enemy team decides not to react; that is, it should take roughly 10 seconds to down a turret, and 20 or so seconds to down a building. Naturally, these are just my preferences; I don’t wish to make the game fully PvP where people just spam attack and disable abilities, because that’s not my style, however, I do think that there needs to be less of an emphasis on PvE in result.

Best of Wishes,
-TAO_Arecibo