[Vorp!] Delaying backdooring

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Backdooring is boring. And backdooring is the only way to win a game. So there is less PvPing and thus more backdooring.

Now, delaying backdooring. There is no way to prevent backdooring. If side entrances are closed, then you can only get Batteries through going alternate entrances along the middle lanes. This would cause games to last for more than 30 minutes even for a 3v3 game, but promote more PvPing to push down the middle lane.

Some have suggested extending slow shields to side entrances. This I see is not a suitable one to solve backdooring. Notice slow shields in middle lane are always BEHIND turrets. Extending slow shields to side means they would be behind turret and Battery. Which turrets provide the slow shield? the 1st Battery and turret is still exposed to attacks. You can put it on the entrance way before turret and Battery. But players can pass it and wait for the effect to wear off, except escaping is definitely difficult or near impossible. But backdooring will still happen. It only causes backdoorers to die more WHICH might prevent too much backdooring, but this means ANT Mk. 1 will dominate backdooring because it can escape via deport without passing the slow shields mentioned above if slow shields are maintained by who knows what turret or permanent.

Front turrets and emmiter are usually primary targets. So front Battery slow shield is usually gone before serious backdooring happens unless the middle lane is unpushable, which the other team doing better at pushing can backdoor than.

Only way to prevent backdooring from happening too much is buffing turrets.

Somethings I typed might be wrong cause I judged things like 15 year olds cause I’m 15 :P

And I think my english is somewhat…broken. Just say which part you don’t understand and I’ll explain as clear as possible.

Discuss.

EDIT: Fixed some grammar errors.

 
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I’m actually thinking of having Deport and ANT’s warp toss you to the furthest depot so they don’t just come back at your base within 5 secs. It actually gives the user some kind of decision: whether to escape but miss out on battles/bang/exp. They really have to weight in the use… if spending an escape back is viable when your base is under attack and stuff.

 
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i agree i believe to take out the front turrets then shields.

 
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Darth, not a bad idea actually, considering ANT’s speed, I don’t think it’d be too bad.

 
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Originally posted by TAO_Arecibo:

Darth, not a bad idea actually, considering ANT’s speed, I don’t think it’d be too bad.

Though it would also put pressure on other ships such as Circe and Clanknor. In this sense, it would actually give time the turrets to heal.

 
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Originally posted by Darth_Sirov:
Originally posted by TAO_Arecibo:

Darth, not a bad idea actually, considering ANT’s speed, I don’t think it’d be too bad.

Though it would also put pressure on other ships such as Circe and Clanknor. In this sense, it would actually give time the turrets to heal.

How would it put pressure on Circe and Clankor exactly? Would you suggest doing the same thing for the OP? That might be effective, yes, though Clankor will still be beastly. Circe too, till that glitch is fixed.

Hehe… I’m developing an idea for a new ship which will make backdooring much more painful… just for fun =D. Perhaps we just need ships which discourage backdooring.

 
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Originally posted by TAO_Arecibo:
Originally posted by Darth_Sirov:
Originally posted by TAO_Arecibo:

Darth, not a bad idea actually, considering ANT’s speed, I don’t think it’d be too bad.

Though it would also put pressure on other ships such as Circe and Clanknor. In this sense, it would actually give time the turrets to heal.

How would it put pressure on Circe and Clankor exactly? Would you suggest doing the same thing for the OP? That might be effective, yes, though Clankor will still be beastly. Circe too, till that glitch is fixed.

Hehe… I’m developing an idea for a new ship which will make backdooring much more painful… just for fun =D. Perhaps we just need ships which discourage backdooring.

Something which can buff turret for some stuffs?

 
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Originally posted by TAO_Arecibo:
Originally posted by Darth_Sirov:
Originally posted by TAO_Arecibo:

Darth, not a bad idea actually, considering ANT’s speed, I don’t think it’d be too bad.

Though it would also put pressure on other ships such as Circe and Clanknor. In this sense, it would actually give time the turrets to heal.

How would it put pressure on Circe and Clankor exactly? Would you suggest doing the same thing for the OP? That might be effective, yes, though Clankor will still be beastly. Circe too, till that glitch is fixed.

Hehe… I’m developing an idea for a new ship which will make backdooring much more painful… just for fun =D. Perhaps we just need ships which discourage backdooring.

Only if they were forced to use Deport…

 
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i think the transport ability only worked when those slowing shields are down. I posted this somewhere else. Like star trek, cant transport through shields when they are up. Once you are behind the shield you dont have a unimpeded route back, so it wont work. This would force the team to open up sections.

I also think the transport ability is too powerful. I think it shoudl recharge slower or there should be a greater delay between activiation and when it works. During this time you cannot do anything, move, thrust, turn or shoot.

 
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undu and turbo can do a lot to discourage back door type attacks. honest. This is more of a game knoledge thing rather than some imba or game mechanic issue.

 
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Originally posted by LackOfSkill:

undu and turbo can do a lot to discourage back door type attacks. honest. This is more of a game knoledge thing rather than some imba or game mechanic issue.

They both can kill the attackers rather easily, but most ppl still continue backdooring. Because if you don’t, you’re going to lose the game. So backdooring still persist.

 
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The question is that are those 2 ships just going to wait at the base until somebody backdoors and not participate in the big battles when they are most likely needed? If you’re are being pressed on 2 fronts, you’ll either miss out on experience of pushing opportunities, especially when you’re the carry (and more often than not, these carries are both good offense and defense).

And defense against backdoors are mostly reactive… you can’t really defend if there’s nobody to come in and attack, but when they do attack and you’re not defending, how fast can you catch them before your structures are destroyed and they’re on the verge of escaping?

 
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Backdooring is not the only way to win. You can successfully push the middle & win quicker.

1st – the trip to the Core is much shorter down the middle

2nd – you keep a “retreat point” in a fight if you keep your redshield and takes theirs (meaning, if you’re being chased you don’t have to go the “long way” to the depot you can just hit the redshield and they won’t follow you)

3rd – everyone on your team “sticks together” because the area you’re fighting in is singular

4th – the drones DO HELP. You can use them as turret bulletcatchers or you can clear the turr and move on to the next redshield level while your drones clean up the emitters

5th – emitters are worth more shield points when taken out

 
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Is this really still an issue?

I’ve played with and against ant, and almost never see it until the front turrets go down.

 
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what we need is a new gamemode…like deathmatch without batts and core..only kills…

and the first team that have 50 kills wins…or the team that have more kills after 20min..

This should be better then new ship or something else.

 
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There have been a lot of good ideas on how to prevent, scratch that, mitigate backdooring. What we need to do now is decide which are the best and to champion that idea. The most popular choices are to buff the turrets hp or regen. I think this plan will backfire on those thinking that it will slow down the ant and clankor.

If you buff the turrets, it will simply take longer for an ant or clankor to kill it, but will make it nearly impossible for other ships like the squid, who have to slug it out with a turret to ever take on a turret alone. The result, everyone will play the ant and clankor even more as bombers since the other ships can no longer do the job.

Buffing the range of turrets to be higher than that of ant is too dramatic of a change. That is not a slight adjustment, that completely inverts the ability of an ant or undu to be usefull against a turret.

Backdooring is part of the game, it will happen and it should happen (to a reasonable degree). That is what makes DoTA games dynamic and strategic. Your aim should be to tune down the ability of some ships to almost solo win the game and put the focus back on teamwork. Let’s focus on the changes that slow down the side progression, or maybe even map changes that make the side paths more difficult or dangerous to traverse.

Also, alternative gamemodes like deathmatch would help prevent those players you who think this should be pvp only from ruining it for us DoTA fans.

 
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Great post Hurpi!

 
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Originally posted by Hurpidurp:

There have been a lot of good ideas on how to prevent, scratch that, mitigate backdooring. What we need to do now is decide which are the best and to champion that idea. The most popular choices are to buff the turrets hp or regen. I think this plan will backfire on those thinking that it will slow down the ant and clankor.

If you buff the turrets, it will simply take longer for an ant or clankor to kill it, but will make it nearly impossible for other ships like the squid, who have to slug it out with a turret to ever take on a turret alone. The result, everyone will play the ant and clankor even more as bombers since the other ships can no longer do the job.

Buffing the range of turrets to be higher than that of ant is too dramatic of a change. That is not a slight adjustment, that completely inverts the ability of an ant or undu to be usefull against a turret.

Backdooring is part of the game, it will happen and it should happen (to a reasonable degree). That is what makes DoTA games dynamic and strategic. Your aim should be to tune down the ability of some ships to almost solo win the game and put the focus back on teamwork. Let’s focus on the changes that slow down the side progression, or maybe even map changes that make the side paths more difficult or dangerous to traverse.

Also, alternative gamemodes like deathmatch would help prevent those players you who think this should be pvp only from ruining it for us DoTA fans.

Thumbs up on this… I’d like to see backdooring still be there, but only more difficult to pull off.

 
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Yeah. I played LoL a bit… and there wasn’t much backdooring that went on in that game. Backdooring… believe it or not, makes this game far more fun. We just don’t want it to be excessive.