[Skyshard Heroes] [Dev] Skyshard balance proposals

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1) stop Hero Rushing
a) Citadels all have an innate -50% Hero Damage modifier. This encourages heroes to support units to take out defenses then the Citadel, rather than the Hero being able to do everything on its own
b) Add a “shield”-type building that adds Citadel damage reduction or armor. This will force players to defeat at least a couple “shields” before attacking the citadel, which means more destruction on the city. (Obviously we’ll pick a better fitting theme than a scifi Shield Generator).

2) do Units die too easily even at appropriate level attacks, and should we buff their health?

3) With configurable towers, we’ll certainly add more types to keep balance in attacking forces, including:
-Towers that can ignore armor
-Towers that hit only Flying units but do extra damage
-Towers that can hit invisible units?

 
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make invisible unit should be nice

 
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I think unit health is a problem level 10 rangers 800 hp = 2 axe storms so they get wiped fast…
Shield generators could be explained easily with Mages, so I love that idea
I like the hero rush suggestion as well, I took a level 7-3 cit with all level 9 archer and flame bunkers close to cit. Hero rushed with full 9 Alaric with level 10 damage, 2 razo’s took down cit with 25% heath left… So that is a problem I think lol

 
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Stealth Turret. ¬¬

 
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1) I’m against this. Sure, hero rushing is cheap, but what do you expect players to do for honor? Most cities are so frekin hard to fight, making defensive builds harder is more harm than anything. Sure, players who played for months and got airship and gyro’s, or high lvl colette, NEVER has to worry about hero rushing, but all the other player’s will now practically never get honor. It’s already sucks we have to spend 3 attack to reach citadel and loose troops in the process for towns NOT DEFENDED, but making hero rushing (only thing we do for honor) less of a alternative seem’s shaky.
…a)b)all depends on 3) and how that plays out, it may not be needed.
2) Swordsman, mages and rangers need a little bit more health to compete with the other units, but the problem isn’t PvE, it’s PvP. A hero shouldn’t be able to defend and wipe out all the enemies units in 3 seconds (jorund axestorm), or insta-stun all his units with blinding light. All you gotta do is add a cooldown for axestorm so it can only be used once every 10 seconds and make the cooldown for blinding light work where there’s some “free time” to attack before the next blinding light can be used to stun units again. Same with Seripha, Locke and any other heroes who are OP with killing units in a few seconds.
3) Up to you, I support configurable towers. Seems fun.

 
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Give to units +25% of their all stats (for example ranger lvl10 would be around 900 hp, 125dmg, 6 range and 60 speed.
Or give them special abilities (Voguls can lifeleech, Gyros will reduce armor with each attack, Rangers with crit.strike). I think its hard to develop such a thing, but maybe its cost it?

 
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1) Shield buildings may be nice but instead of the -50% dmg you can just add reinforcing to conquest etc?:P
2) Let’s see some numbers:
Troops hp from lowest to highest for lvl10 units: 600, 700, 800, 1000, 2500, 2800, 3200 (boomers and steamtanks not included :P)
Now dmg of aoes lvl10: 200, 250, 370, 375, 387(gasket on siege), 390, 400

As you can see strongest aoe can kill all nearby gunjacks, rangers and mages in TWO hits… even stronger units will succumb eventually and for example gasket if we dont account for him being killed fast can do 8,1k aoe dmg till he run out of mana for siege (not including mana relics or even mana regen in calulations) or he can do less but spam barrage in between too… as you can see unguarded units in matter of secons or up to like 10 secons can all die rather easily by hand of practically any hero with aoe.

3) Great :P Though better nerf keris instead of adding tower anti him unless it mean we’ll get invisible units soon too?:P

 
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Originally posted by SuperPORN:

Give to units +25% of their all stats (for example ranger lvl10 would be around 900 hp, 125dmg, 6 range and 60 speed.
Or give them special abilities (Voguls can lifeleech, Gyros will reduce armor with each attack, Rangers with crit.strike). I think its hard to develop such a thing, but maybe its cost it?

Well, each unit should be good for something. At this moment, any unit that isn’t a flying airship, exploding bomb, or gyrocopters are useless units. Here’s my ideas:
1. Swordsman: Recoil ability, when a swordsman dies/damaged, enemy is dealt damage.(passive)
2. Rangers: Evade ability, when a ranger is almost dead (or 50% health etc.) a evade icon would appear and would basically mean 50% chance to dodge a attack for a given time and only works once for each unit per attack.(passive or an ability you can use at any time, CD is optional).
3. Mages: Recovery ability, based on the units level, mages can recover hp overtime. Considering mages cost arcana, the most valuable resource in the game, it’s only fair to say that a reduce in mage casaultie’s in PvE is something a lot of players would recommend.(passive)
4. Rivets: Lock-On ability, all towers within range will attack the rivet(s). Considering rivet’s are a tanked unit, this only makes sense and would encourage players to customize attacks instead of using only one type of unit. (passive or ability you can use any time, CD is opitional).
5. Voguls: Berzerk ability, just like Jorund’s ability in sense. Voguls are a unit used for rushing, increase damage and attack speed, increase damage received. That’s all there is too it. (passive or preferred used ability)
6. Gyro’s: They already have the ability to attack defensive builds first. Leave it at that, mix 2 rivets (auto-lock) in there and it’s a awesome assault. I recommend gyro’s auto-target defensive builds be more spread out however. When they all gang on the same tower these units quickly become OP. Make it as soon as they are deployed, they target a random defensive build. Not like 15 lvl 10 gyro’s will die any time soon against the best buildings anyway, especially with colette on there side.(passive)
7. Mercenaries: No idea, don’t know all these units yet. Air Ships ability is that they fly(passive), those bombing units explode(passive), and gunjacks should have ability to chain attacks for a limited time, like mages (passive when units hit certain health OR selectable ability).
^Those are my thoughts.

 
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Originally posted by synapticon:

1) stop Hero Rushing
a) Citadels all have an innate -50% Hero Damage modifier. This encourages heroes to support units to take out defenses then the Citadel, rather than the Hero being able to do everything on its own
b) Add a “shield”-type building that adds Citadel damage reduction or armor. This will force players to defeat at least a couple “shields” before attacking the citadel, which means more destruction on the city. (Obviously we’ll pick a better fitting theme than a scifi Shield Generator).

2) do Units die too easily even at appropriate level attacks, and should we buff their health?

3) With configurable towers, we’ll certainly add more types to keep balance in attacking forces, including:
-Towers that can ignore armor
-Towers that hit only Flying units but do extra damage
-Towers that can hit invisible units?

1) Good step in the right direction. However. Please consider WHERE Hero rushing is imbalanced and harmful to the game. IE – In Conquest, NOT in honor farming.
1a) I think this is good. Even better in my opinion (to accomplish the same thing) would be (as Greggfergie said) to add ranged units to the citadel, allowing for normal-range attacks from the type of garrisoned unit (mage, ranger, gunjacks, etc.) A second proposal includes giving citadels an AOE attack like the Guulak cits have. Anything to discourage going straight for the cit, without making the cit indestructible. Perhaps more units with AI like gyros/airships who hit defenses first.
1b) Great idea — could be great coupled with other ideas, to prevent supershields from ending base attacking.
2) Some, yes. Others, quite the opposite. Rivets die a little quick against lv 9-10 towers, at an equal level. Rangers and Mages are glass, and die quickly to AOE, but should. Airships are still kinda strong for low cost.
3) Hell. Yes.

 
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rather than whining about these changes where my gripes are already covered, i will ask for the following;
give us an arena where we can do REAL PvP. force against force, where i can challenge another player to a duel to the death and he either accepts or declines. this will be real cool.

 
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Originally posted by WhiteLionKing:

rather than whining about these changes where my gripes are already covered, i will ask for the following;
give us an arena where we can do REAL PvP. force against force, where i can challenge another player to a duel to the death and he either accepts or declines. this will be real cool.

ME LAEKZ DAT +1

 
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Originally posted by WhiteLionKing:

rather than whining about these changes where my gripes are already covered, i will ask for the following;
give us an arena where we can do REAL PvP. force against force, where i can challenge another player to a duel to the death and he either accepts or declines. this will be real cool.

I like this idea, do this. I will come back for this. :)

 
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WhiteLionKing is correct that would be great

 
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Originally posted by WhiteLionKing:

rather than whining about these changes where my gripes are already covered, i will ask for the following;
give us an arena where we can do REAL PvP. force against force, where i can challenge another player to a duel to the death and he either accepts or declines. this will be real cool.

Looks good, rewards could come out of this.

 
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WLK IS GOD!!!!

 
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and it will be greater even if others can watch the war unfold. i will love this game forever

 
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It would also be cool if Guild mates could fight each other in Arena

 
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1.This is one of the most needed changes.
Right now a person attacking you can easly kill Citadel and siloses with just his hero. What i personaly would like to see is that Citadel rushing would be still possible, but with its difficulty raised so after killing Citadel with only hero the attacker wouldent be able to also destroy siloses. This would in a way force people to choose between fast Honor farming (which for high level players is more important) and getting both honor and resources when attacking with units.
Of course Keris would probably still be the excepiton to that rule.

2.A simple HP buff would be enough in this case i think.

3.Very good idea.

 
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Originally posted by WhiteLionKing:

rather than whining about these changes where my gripes are already covered, i will ask for the following;
give us an arena where we can do REAL PvP. force against force, where i can challenge another player to a duel to the death and he either accepts or declines. this will be real cool.

Not sure if I’m misinterpreting this, but isn’t that just the same thing as attacking a town with only a hero while the town owner defends? I do agree that it isn’t so much pvp if one side is offline, though I doubt it’d be that much different if you simply went hero vs hero.
As for spectating, they’re planning to add a feature that lets people search specific people’s towns and view them, so it’d be the same as scouting an enemy town while two people are duking it out.

 
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@above: Silo = singular. Silos = plural. Siloses = … multiple plural? o.o

I also agree with WLK’s idea.

Now, back to main post:
1-Awesome.
a)That’s great, but does it mean it will have 80% with 3rd tier reinforce? Also, I think silos should get anti-hero damage reduction (either from reinforce or as a base stat) as well.
b)How about shield-type towers simply add damage % reduction to nearby everything except citadel, but no matter where they are, they all add a certain amount of armor or damage reduction to the citadel. In other words, they increase citadel defence by X while adding Y armor to nearby towers (range increases with level). That way, they really will be a priority if anything wants to get done.
As for those who complain about towns being so hard: Stop attacking towns with higher citadel than yours if you can’t take them? Also, so accommodate them, all this buffing should vary according to levels. For example, Cit innate Hero Damage modifier should increase to 50% starting from 0% at Cit.1. That way, it gradually gets harder without the sudden difficulty increase for the lower levels.

2) They take too long to die to home base defenses when a Hero is simply taking all the damage, but they die way too fast to other heroes. So here’s what I suggest to fix that: Allow towers to have a manual targeting priority system.
Q: Wtf is that?
A: It’s a menu that each tower has that is saved. In that menu, one can select which to target as priority. Here are some examples:
-Closest target within range.
-Farthest target within range.
-Hero if within range.
-Units if within range.
And maybe give a list of which unit to hit first, and maybe allow it to be added as a list in the tower. So each tower, in that menu, will have a blank list with a bunch of options on top. When an option is selected, it goes into that list, and before every shot, the tower checks the list for the targets. If 1st target in list isn’t available, it goes to the next, etc. Default is closest target as it currently is. If that’s too complicated, then allow each tower to have 1 of the 4 that I mentioned above manually selected, and if what ever that is selected is not within range, it switches to closest target.

Finally, to answer your question, on one hand, no. Their health is too high for towers, but too low for heroes. So something needs to be done about taking hero damage.
On the other hand, if you do what I said above (tower priorities), then yes, definitely increase their health by at least 1.5x to 2x (except for gyros and airships, they’re already OP).

3) YES.

 
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1. This is GOOD. But with reinforce 3, damage will be reduced up to 80%. This is still ok except for cit 8 which has 25,000 HP which is too much. I suggest lowering it to 20k as well as cit 7 hp can be lowered a bit.

1b. If your goal is for the attacking player to destroy more bldgs instead of the cit only, i have a different suggestion.. instead of the “shield” type bldg, put points in every bldg.. if lets say 100 is reached, that will be a victory if the attacker ends attack. E.g:

Citadel – 50 pts
Barracks, Encampment, TG, HOH – 10 pts each
Silos, Forge, Warbanner – 5 pts each
Towers – 3 pts each
Garrison – 2 pts each
Resource bldgs – 1 pt each.

*numbers are just for illustration purposes.

So that means going for Citadel alone will only give 50 points, CIt and 4 silos will give 70 pts.. which will not give victories.

Possible combination: Citadel, 4 silos, HoH, 4 towers, Forge, 2 Garrisons (50 + 20 + 10 + 12 + 5 + 4 = 101 pts). Enough to give a victory.

2. No. Buffing health of units alone will indirectly nerf heroes with unit wiping spells.

3. OK cool. Just to repeat a suggestion I made before.. Why not give citadel ability to attack, just like Undead’s Necropolis in Warcraft 3. Instead of bringing back Lightning Towers, make citadel attack that ignores armor, where damage also scales per citadel level. This will also help a lot in avoiding citadel rushing heroes.

 
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@AleXinoS and off topic.
“Silo” in polish is “silos”. And since english is not my first language it just seemed right to use “siloses”. My mistake for not checking it.

 
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Honor farming+Cit blitzing…increase AI honor reward?…Make attacking players only 5 more honor rather than double?

…I know that peeps will hate this, but everyone lvl 5 Cit and above…level the playing field…drop everyone to lvl 5 cit and max 8 defenses at the start of the next season. Then those that have lvl 8-3 cits will be able to identify with the challenges of the game change…other wise it will be a Grandfathered in…that might be drastic but something like that could be done (could lower the resource requirements to upgrade in the process). I know that is going to be hated.

 
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OK, in regards to cit rushing…increase the honor given by the AI town to 5 less than attacking players. Also, could have separate attack system for attacking other players vs. attacking on the tile map. Mana for attacking Conquest tiles…enrgy for campaign and Attacks for attacking players. Giving a separate attack system for tiles will perhaps decrease the blitzing of cits due to not having to choose between honor farming players vs. attacking tiles.