Kongregate's Cancer: Ugly Pay-to-Win games

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So, today I entered Kongregate since like 1 or 2 months. I used to play a lot and I enjoy a lot of games here. And I was wondering if any new good game came out, maybe a secuel to Cursed Treasure, another Nerdook game, or any other of the awesome games this community has. So I checked the “New Hot Games” tab and guess what….another pay-to-win game!!!!! Damn, that just made me close the window and do something else, but I decided to come back and express my opinion.

Now seriously… In the last months I have seen at least 7 games that are just the same bad game with little difference, bad story and gameplay but with something in common: A semi-nude woman on the front and a disheartening pay-to-win system. I understand those games exists because some people actually pays for them and I don’t have anything against those people or the developers trying to make easy money.

What is bothering me is that those games are presented as “hot new games” or featured or something. And they are just spamming, one after another, a series of games with the same skeleton but different skin.

I just wanted to ask the community what they think about this, and any “solution” to this problem, because every time I see those games on the hot new games I just auto click the “X” button and go do something else.

From my viewpoint this games are lowering Kongregate’s quality and downgrading his corporate image.

Please leave your opinion.

 
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Hot new games don’t get spotlight because they’re rated highly by users, but because devs arrange that with Kong. Sure some of those games might be genuine gems that have a lot of plays and are highly rated because of their awesome gameplay, but most are just advertised with money.

Yes, pay2win crap imported from Failbook is cancer that’s killing Kong. Unfortunately the only way to fight it is to rate those games down and rate good ones up. Just remember that very rarely there are MMOs without pay2win button (for example Nova Raider), so don’t rate every game with MMO tag 1* “just because”.

And don’t forget that Epic Battle Fantasy 4 should be released in just few weeks.

 
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Agreed that these reskinned games are terribad. But, my suggestion would be to downvote and ignore them. Why should they affect your enjoyment of other games? Just ignore them and be done with it.

 
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Pay to win is the only way to make money, you will understand when you’re at the marketing department of a server-based online game.

VERY few will “donate” if they get nothing from it. And people are easily encouraged/enticed to “donate” if they get a special stat boost or some other advantages.

Just remember: why pay to win? Because nobody wants to pay to lose. LOL

 
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"

Pay to win is the only way to make money, you will understand when you’re at the marketing department of a server-based online game.

VERY few will “donate” if they get nothing from it. And people are easily encouraged/enticed to “donate” if they get a special stat boost or some other advantages.

Just remember: why pay to win? Because nobody wants to pay to lose. LOL
"

You talk like you know everything there is to know about marketing server based games, but you don’t seem to understand the concept of in game advertisements. This still generates plenty of revenue for the author, so there truly is no need for a pay-to-win system.

What it truly comes down to is greed, authors that release pay-to-win games are only looking to make extra money.

 
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I also hate almost all Pay-to-win games but mostly i just ignore those games, what really pisses me off is that great game like Epic wars and bloom tower defense ended their GREAT line of awesome games to settle with an MMO!!! and that just ensure that we will never enjoy another of their classic games EVER AGAIN! and instead we have to get into the endlessly competitive world of the MMO games OR play for months to actually get to advance in the game.

I believe that is the real cancer of kongregates.

 
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Hate those pay2win crap, and it’s usually way out of proportion.

Example: I can get a whole lot of goodies out of Epic bf 4 for 10 bucks, where i get 1/3rd of a item in a pay 2 win game like yugioh bam or literally 99% of the kong ccgs.

And most multiplayer p2w are the same as those ccgs.
If i see an item priced higher than 20 bucks or 50 microtransactions→ 1 star!

 
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im not a developer, im just a gamer. in fact im a free gamer. i put up with pay to win games, do i like it no. most of what was said above i agree with, but there is one aspect missing here. the frustration of pay to win killing itself. Ive watched a pay to win game as it got a little more greedy. what happened? the fun got sucked like a vaccum. players fleed, and left a few hard core spenders, and me with a lot less players at my level. although i get developers want to make a few more bucks, they can not forget the free players. one game i played went from 10 chatrooms at one point to now 5 because 2 or 3 players choose to use the extra rooms. a game that at one point was bustling and on the right path now lost most of its enegy.
What happens when a game looses its players? is it still exciting for those left? a game needs competition. it needs its free player base in MMO, it should be pay for an edge, not to win or to play at all. and when a game releases features that even the biggest spenders are barely getting through and the best free layers are still trying to beat the last expantion from over a month back, that is the kind of thing that kills a good game.

if a dev wants money, the first thought shouldnt be ‘lets extort with high rates. it should be, how do i make this game more chalanging so that it is more enjoyable an get more players, hopefully some will spend money to get ahead when they start and continue later. it should be, how do i keep the game close but make the want to pay a little more. Devs think all to often ’ive got spenders, ill keep poaching the ones i have’ but sadly making things expensive ditures new spenders from trying and overpowers the spenders already there if they are to get their money’s value.

and to make this relevent to kong. poor pay to win games make the site less enjoyable. when players find themselves frustrated they try another smilar advertized game and get dissapointed again. eventually they stop trying and go to another site. too many of these games pop up and it will start to hurt the site itself. frustration has its limits with any player. i for one have much patence though many of my friends did not. i hope the average pay to win game gets back to hat it should be, kong used to be better than this

 
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You talk like you know everything there is to know about marketing server based games, but you don’t seem to understand the concept of in game advertisements. This still generates plenty of revenue for the author, so there truly is no need for a pay-to-win system.

Sounds like you dont know anything about it either. Adverts dont make much at all, and the ad rates are at an all time low since kongregate has existed. Its very hard to earn enough money from a game to make it viable at the moment. I suspect that most of these MMOs fail

What it truly comes down to is greed, authors that release pay-to-win games are only looking to make extra money.

MMOs cost a lot to make and cost a lot to run, its a very tough industry, and you call game devs greedy for trying to cover their costs, and demand that all games are free and only funded by ads. I bet you use an ad blocker also. Ads alone are unlikely to cover the cost of an MMO, or indeed, most flash games

 
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I only do realize what’s going on in here. There had been one game which was based on getting diamond in a row of three with pvp and pve parts in itself, but this game was getting that big cause of its shop so that they had to close it of some reason. That might be the fact the new players don’t want to wait getting higher into the game, and everyone who sits daily in front of them, will loose their motivation (or just don’t like the game anymore). The Content of these games with p2w is some weak one in most times. But that don’t stop the game in any form, i think, cause there are few players playing it and maybe wasting time, but having at least few fun.

I have see games that just give an extraordinately story with some rpg topic or few tower defenses or else, maybe eg nova raider too. These were very good to explore and have had a special game atmosphere which the p2w games rarely do have.

 
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I honestly don’t mind if games are pay to win because games aren’t that serious to me to be spending money on (or at least flash games on websites). All I ask is if developers are going to have a game that’s pay to win is to not ignore those who aren’t paying (because all gamer’s opinions matter if it’s constructive) and that they don’t ignore things that are broken within their game such as lag, glitches, hacks, etc. If you’re making money on it, you should spend the time and money to fix the game, because a good quality game that’s pay to win needs to be worth spending the cash on.

 
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Originally posted by Nabillionare:

I honestly don’t mind if games are pay to win because games aren’t that serious to me to be spending money on (or at least flash games on websites). All I ask is if developers are going to have a game that’s pay to win is to not ignore those who aren’t paying (because all gamer’s opinions matter if it’s constructive) and that they don’t ignore things that are broken within their game such as lag, glitches, hacks, etc. If you’re making money on it, you should spend the time and money to fix the game, because a good quality game that’s pay to win needs to be worth spending the cash on.

I definitely agree with you. These pay to win games are unique in that their is almost a dual playing climate going on. Those that pay and those that don’t. The funny thing is…is that those people that don’t pay are very important to the success of the game. Because It allows those who feel like spending money to gain the upper hand and have that feeling of power and superiority over the vast amount of users. If everyone had to pay…that feeling of “dominating” wouldn’t exist and the game itself wouldn’t be that appealing.

 
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I think the main issue that we are having is that many of us have been loyal Kong players for years. Over those years we have enjoyed great new games, a few bad ones, some funny ones, but they are all unique in their own way. This site was a way of encouraging up and coming devs who seemed to be in it just for the enjoyment of making a game. There were all of these competitions running (prob still are…???) for game creation and top rated games. Anyone remember donating kreds to the dev? That was great… But I guess the button took up ad space. This was the site were I learned what an idle game is, re-lived great 8-bit game moments, seem some astounding creativity… Enough to get me to talk about this site to other people and get them to create Kong accounts.

Then came a great idea.. Badging games. We then all seemed to find great games that we didn’t know existed in genres we would never think to look in.

But lately the front page of badges, games spotlight, etc is full of facebook games where the devs are just adding the game to this site in order to gain some extra revenue that they are not making on facebook. Since this started, I have played a few of these and become quite involved in some, but got very tired of the pay-to-play and play-to-win systems that I started looking back in my favourites for the great games I used to play a lot. I have also stopped recommending this site to people because it seems to have lost its direction. People already have facebook accounts and don’t like the games there. I don’t tell them to come here and play the same rubbish.

It’s very similar to how youtube has changed. Many great innovations have been introduced (that certainly is the case on Kong too!!) but there is a part that makes you long for the past when the site was small and quirky which is how it gained its popularity in the first place. I don’t think there is a cure to this, the idea of abandoning ideas and purpose for the sake of making money has been around for a long long time. It simply used to be called “selling out” now apparently we call it “cancer…”

 
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Sh33p is right. If you’re just going to play pay-to-win games, use your Facebook. I enjoyed this site better when I could play my favorite flash games and occasionally some thrilling story-packed MMO. Kongregate, in my opinion, was better off without these pay-to-win MMOs, even if it meant extra income for Kong itself. The thing is, with pay-to-win MMOs, there is good initial income to the developer and website owner, but a striking downward trend after the initial outburst.

Paying for playing is actually a good concept for developers and initially attracts non-paying players to play harder. But overdoing it severely damages the community, reputation, and fun of the game. It should be “pay-for-an-edge” rather than “pay-to-win” or “pay-to-play”. Kong is losing its reputation and fun because of this concept. Several other gaming sites also began to melt down to these pay-to-win MMOs. I bet if no action will be taken toward retaining the great image of a gaming site with enjoyable flash and occasionally MMO games, in four years time almost all gaming sites would have the same “pay-to-win” MMOs that skin the same skeleton.

I do not disagree with paying for playing. I disagree with abusing it. A pay-to-win game with some players and a pay-for-an-edge game with lots of players probably have the same ending income, but the pay-for-an-edge game would be far more enjoyable, interesting, and addictive. Pay-for-an-edge games, in theory, last a lot longer than pay-to-win games, which means there might be overall less effort needed by the developers.

Sure, reject the idea, and keep moving Kongregate toward this tragic downhill slope. There might be less people playing here and less fun, but at least you wouldn’t see me anymore.

 
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Another problem is that there are fewer and fewer new singleplayer games last few months.

 
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If their devs talks are focusing on ‘hooking the whales’; on making a game addictive and generating the most money without looking at the content or quality of the content.. I am very disappointed in the Kongregate I once knew

Watch this and be disgusted:
http://www.slideshare.net/winnietong/kongregate

 
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I used to love coming here – really wide selection of games and I happily wiled away (far too) many hours.

But now it’s…different. And not better. Hardly any really decent singleplayer games, and far far far too much pay-2-win crap being ‘spotlighted’.

So if anyone knows of a site that hasn’t sold out, please let me know?

Fair play to KONG – they want to make money and all that stuff. But at this rate your base will leave you.

 
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I agree with all the complaints however I dont think this is about Kongregate, it’s just supply and demand and the evolution of the industry. People won’t make free games anymore when they can instead charge money. Money is how the world works, it’s rather ludicrous to expect free stuff, especially free good stuff. It was a miracle that free good games used to come out all the time on sites like Kongregate. Over time eventually developers “wised up” and gradually it became far more pay oriented. Now it’s by far nearly all new games are pay – oriented and if a developer made a high quality free (or even almost free) game they would probably seem like a “sucker” really.

 
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Originally posted by Karasu:

If their devs talks are focusing on ‘hooking the whales’; on making a game addictive and generating the most money without looking at the content or quality of the content.. I am very disappointed in the Kongregate I once knew

Watch this and be disgusted:
http://www.slideshare.net/winnietong/kongregate

that link looks like something i read not too long ago about these “whales” and yes, its pretty sickening to see devs create games focused on leeching $ from said “whales” primarily. its no wonder i despise that type of game so much.

pay-to-win or pay-to-play, either way its a crap setup and guess what, now this filth is spreading to armor games which i originally moved to after seeing they didn’t have many games like this…yeah, so much for that glimmer of hope >.> i really do, honestly, HATE this type of game setup. currently theres around 5-10+ mmo’s on AG that are blatantly obvious pay to win.

oh and it seems games that look like crystal saga set off a red flag to me as being trash so i now tend to avoid those by default.

…where are the good games these days? i left console gaming due to things getting too easy/predictable/crappy and now i’m being driven away from mmo’s due to the pay-to-win designs. are people trying to kill off good games and leave nothing but crap behind?

 
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I agree with most of the things said here… Kongregate used to be so great, i was here since like 2007ish.. things have gone downhill since then..
Not to mention the lack of support kongregate gives even to its own game (Kongai)…

 
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Originally posted by JareX:

So, today I entered Kongregate since like 1 or 2 months. I used to play a lot and I enjoy a lot of games here. And I was wondering if any new good game came out, maybe a secuel to Cursed Treasure, another Nerdook game, or any other of the awesome games this community has. So I checked the “New Hot Games” tab and guess what….another pay-to-win game!!!!! Damn, that just made me close the window and do something else, but I decided to come back and express my opinion.

Now seriously… In the last months I have seen at least 7 games that are just the same bad game with little difference, bad story and gameplay but with something in common: A semi-nude woman on the front and a disheartening pay-to-win system. I understand those games exists because some people actually pays for them and I don’t have anything against those people or the developers trying to make easy money.

What is bothering me is that those games are presented as “hot new games” or featured or something. And they are just spamming, one after another, a series of games with the same skeleton but different skin.

I just wanted to ask the community what they think about this, and any “solution” to this problem, because every time I see those games on the hot new games I just auto click the “X” button and go do something else.

From my viewpoint this games are lowering Kongregate’s quality and downgrading his corporate image.

Please leave your opinion.

 
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i replied this forum post for spamming and making players of some games which are highly rated,if u find anyone doing like this please report to nearest moderator or game developer…for your kind information,moderators are available in AAk chat box

 
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Sad to say, but in most cases, a very content/feature-rich MMO is going to require revenue just to exist. Pay-to-win wasn’t really something people worried about back in the days of subscription-based gaming, but people have gotten so used to free-to-play that subscription games can’t maintain the required playerbases to justify their continued survival. Almost anything that drives substantial income to a free-to-play game is going to be considered a pay-to-win scheme unless it’s purely aesthetic, and purely aesthetic rarely brings in as many desperate/greedy p(l)ayers. Game studios don’t want to spend time and effort on a game that barely earns more than it costs when they can spend those resources on a game that brings in cash, and if they end up with 200 players who pay $500/week rather than 10,000 players who pay only via TrialPay offers or ad click revenue, they’re okay with angering those 10k.