Why EVERYTHING needs Suns?

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Im aware the developer has to make money to keep the game up, I eventually spend some here and there BUT my problem with this game is:

The cash bought things in the shop are WAY better than their credit counterparts. Ex.: Healing injection credit version – 2k, heals 20; suns version – 2sun, heals 100. That’s 500% FIVE HUNDRED times as better as the credit counterpart. All the other items follows the same 500% better pattern on the suns counterpart.

I’m ok with having to pay for commodities, like Illyriad does: you only pay for things that don’t actually affect your relation with other players. But here I can clearly see players who get Suns frequently having an UNBEARABLE advantage over free players. They should have SOME? Yes, but this is totally “pay to win”:

Expeditions; Fleet; Shop items; Armor sets; Totally OP crew members and officers and Tactics.

Like I have seen and many others also have seen happen a hundred times in the past with generic browser games that overprice everything to milk money out of people, instead of having a fair payment system in order to keep people around: soon or later it will eventually fail, after the money has been milked to the max.

 
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I’ve played probably about 30 different games that run off the same model as Legacy of a Thousand Suns. The difference between this game and many others is that in LoTs the developers have put many ways to get Golden Suns without making any purchases:

1) Every 7 days you get a loyalist token. If you trade them in every 2 weeks you get 20 suns per month. If you wait until the end of the month you get 25 suns.
2) High level space port facility has a chance to award 1, 2 or 3 suns.
3) Every other level you receive 1 sun – Considering how easy it is to level that can equate to several suns per day.

You’re asking for a payment system where peoples money is weight at the same as peoples gold – Those types of games usually fail as very few people are willing to pay. However, since this game offers you free suns on a daily basis you can become just as strong as many paying players, it’ll just take you a lot longer. Every 60 levels [not including time bonuses or luck on space port] you’ll be able to purchase a premium equipment item. This is probably one of the better, more fair, games for people looking to play for free because there are some really good free items, they just take some time to get.

Also, just so you know 500% and 500 TIMES are 2 different things [you used both] 500x of 20 healing would be 10,000.

 
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all legendary items in the game you are able to get without the use of GS, and these items are definitely NOT 500% weaker than those youd get for GS.
Many later-zone raids also drop gear quite comparable to those from GS, highest tier archimedes set isnt bad either. The advantage of GS over non-GS players would mean something significant, if PVP would be a vital part of the game, but it isnt.

 
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Originally posted by Res3nt:
Many later-zone raids also drop gear quite comparable to those from GS, highest tier archimedes set isnt bad either. The advantage of GS over non-GS players would mean something significant, if PVP would be a vital part of the game, but it isnt.

Honestly, normal items aren’t so good or even comparable as those from expedition packs. You can easly recognize player who spend suns by their cyber-cop/tytan/neon full set.
I could understand that and not complain, lets reward guys who support the game. But devs should makes credits more useful, after upgrading all facilities those are useless, you can spend them for raid spawn things and nothing more :|

 
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by this you mean that for example 55/37 cyber cop street sweeper is 500% better than 60/37 crimson energy claw or 51/32 veck’s blaster?
if you did a little work, you’d be able to wear legendary items that generally edge out anything you see at expedition packs.
Credit usefulness is a different subject that has been mentioned quite often in official forum. it affects GS-spenders and free players the same. Ive seen developers mention facility upgrades as a long-term plan, and attempting to make health more valuable. This would put at least some more value to credits as people would perhaps use it more often for health refills – something that already happens quite a lot on hunting dules.

 
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@Your_Enemy: I have to say that I felt the same way about credits in the beginning. They seemed to be meening less after upgrading the facilities to the max. But, as Res3nt already wrote, health refills become a serious credit-burning issue later in the game.
Personally, being at lvl 301, I have to pay around 550.000 (maybe it`s even 600.000 credits now) credits for a full health refill. I have to say that I am really struggeling to keep my credit level if I want to hit the big raids (dule etc.)… I couldn`t fight a dule everyday; in fact I have to save up credits.
Later on in the game you will definitly see that credits do have a worth. ;-)

 
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Don’t fight those raid bosses then, or put stats into health. No need to spend suns or money on health or stamina or energy refills ever.

 
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Originally posted by hotpants:
this is totally “pay to win”:

You couldn’t be more wrong. It is the most free-player friendly game I’ve ever seen. Right now I’m in top 20 and I didn’t convert single cred into GS (yes, no free offers since those are unavailable for me) and didn’t start playing on first day. If you took quick peek into lab tab, you’d realize that absolutely best items in game are all free. Azrael Battle Cuiras (best chest armour) is over 28% better than next best thing (Dragon Knight’s Panoply, limited time GS items). IXH (Infested Xeno Hazard) and Legacy armour sets are almost as good as GS items, same goes for Crimson Energy Claw and Vek’s Claw for weapons. Best level up gear (Black Dragon, Storm Commander, Imperial Finery, Legacy) are all free. Not to mention that at some point your stats start playing much bigger role than equipment. One of best ships? XID. Avaiable for free. Same goes for Talos War Ship (poor man’s Brutality) and Sian Dragon Fighter. Crew? From infested raids and zone 9. Also free. Officers? Once again, those from infested raids and new from zone 9. Upgraded storyline officers have same power (stat-wise) as Erasmus and Amy, most recent limited time GS ones. Less QQ, more stat farming.

 
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That doesn’t erase the fact that if you wanted to pay, you could get all the best stuff very quickly, replenish your energy, and spin through everything like it was nothing……..Trinity set is really cheap in suns, and low levels get it to wipe out all the new free-playing people. This is one of those, PAY TO GET HIGHER 10X quicker than free-playing

 
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Raven, what you dont realize is if the game didn’t work like that there would be no game for you to play. Yes, people buy energy but that doesn’t make your character stronger in relation to characters of the same level. Yes, paying players will get their faster but this is one of a very very very few freemium games that actually lets free players even progress past a certain point at all.

 
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that and buying the energy would give them more exp and level, so they’d be compared to a new batch of people at their new level. sounds like people need to think before they rage to me.

 
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Who cares about suns in langency of a thousands suns for two weeks then get the sain loyalist token then craft 20 suns how easy is that?

 
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First of all, It’s Roven*
And second of all, characters can not only skip the waiting, but there are many powerful items that would take normal character’s either rediculous chances (Like getting a shiney pokemon) Or not even attainable except for Suns, so yea, i am level 18 and got my arse kicked by a level 12 with all trinity armor he baught with Suns. so level can go down the drain it seems if you have money

 
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The so-called whiping out in pvp makes him gain or you to lose nothing of any importance, as long as you’ve been smart enough to deposit your credit. getting any set such as trinity does not affect lvling speed. Skirmish pvp at this point is quite a meaningless part of the game.

 
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How about GalaxyDome? Equivalent to PVP in means of power from items, and you gain or lose GP Which is necessary to get better stuff on the list which cost free-money.

 
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Originally posted by RovenShock:

How about GalaxyDome? Equivalent to PVP in means of power from items, and you gain or lose GP Which is necessary to get better stuff on the list which cost free-money.

Once you start stat farming later on in the game (probably by level 100 most players can at least benefit from it, and by 200 it’s probably the main thing you do), equipment will quickly start to lose relevance, and the difference between the best free and GS equipment won’t make nearly as much of a difference as a few hundred stats will (and one can get a few hundred in a few days).

Also, the healing items and grenades are equally worthless at the point where the bosses actually start posing a threat, so that’s a pretty poor example to cite.

 
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What do you want Roven? For other people not to pay for Golden suns or for items of high power to be free for everyone, so that you can have some of the best items in the game at lvl 18?
You’ve already said that you understand that the devs need cash to keep developing the game, hence they need the paying players, but seems to me that it ticks you off that low lvl players can buy good gear with cash… Hope you understand that you cant make a game where you have to be at a certain lvl to spend cash in the game.

 
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I just think its ridiculous to be able to buy your way on the leader board, and i feel that this game is getting undeserved attention on Kongregate. I don’t see games on Kongregate that developed making people pay to be better than others. But this is just another one of those games that does that. But a game making a special currency specificly for cash is downright disgusting to me, might as well ask us to buy a game. granite you get 1 sun every 2 levels, I believe that they should put up more items for sale on the free currency. Thats all, I but instead, you either have to be lucky or have to pay.

They already get cash from us playing the game to begin with! I’d rather play Mafia Wars with all the 6 diffrent currencies than a game with a currency that i have to pay for.
The highest level character on kong is said to be about 870………split that in half is 435, thats how much Sun he has. you can buy that with 5 dollars.

I’m sorry if i am upsetting you people, I don’t mean to be, but i think i was playing a free Nexon game or something else that deserves to have a second currency……
I personally don’t like paying for things, and I dont think many people come to Kongregate to buy things on there many “free” games. I thought Kongregates currency was used for donations. But this is just upsetting. Many more games on kongregate come out begging for kong cash………..I just want to know how they get on the front page. It frustrates me, I mean, is there that many people who enjoy them?

 
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I’m sorry, are you stupid or something? Where were you last few years? From Dream World to War Metal Tyrant, every MMO on Kongregate has stuff that is only available to paying players. This is their main source of income, and always have been. Next time do some research first, so you don’t post obvious BS that is completely disconnected from reality. Tyrant has over 50% of content available only to paying players, yet it’s one of most played games here.
Galaxy Dome is great example of how you know nothing about LoTS. First of all, nobody is serious about GD since it doesn’t drop crafts. It’s more of a hobby. And because of how its mechanics work your stats >>>> equipment of entire team.

My advice: go troll on forum of some other MMO, I’m sure you can find one totally free. /sarcasm.

 
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just think its ridiculous to be able to buy your way on the leader board, and i feel that this game is getting undeserved attention on Kongregate. I don’t see games on Kongregate that developed making people pay to be better than others. But this is just another one of those games that does that. But a game making a special currency specificly for cash is downright disgusting to me, might as well ask us to buy a game. granite you get 1 sun every 2 levels, I believe that they should put up more items for sale on the free currency. Thats all, I but instead, you either have to be lucky or have to pay.[/quote]

The advertising revenue the actual game company makes for this game is very small compared to what Kongregate makes. You’re forgetting that unlike other flash games which are hosted ON Kongregate these games need to pay for server hosting for the multiplayer aspects of the game [on top of having much larger staffs]. There is money involved in making it – expecting people to make a game for free is very silly. You’re not being FORCED to pay. As said you can do things a bit slower and get legendary items from raids that are better than pay for items, you’re just naive.

 
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Originally posted by RovenShock:

How about GalaxyDome? Equivalent to PVP in means of power from items, and you gain or lose GP Which is necessary to get better stuff on the list which cost free-money.

GD can be useful, mostly for the free +Def and +Att buffs, but there is nothing gamechanging in the tables there. The very high tier legendary items take a very long time to get even for high GS spenders.

 
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My post is to address the pvp concern.

In the lower levels, yes, equipment makes a huge difference and Suns equipment dominates. However, if you farm consistently, it can and will dominate the entire rest of the game.

I am almost level 200 and although I stopped at Galaxydome rank5, I am still gaining points every day from people wearing the best Suns equipment running into my wall.

If you are serious about pvp, spending Suns is not a necessity and it is still possible to do very well.

 
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Im okay with the “income” from GS to devs but either everything its SUNS,SUNS, SUNS and for those who dont pay we cant get Legend items without hard work and stuff when those cash-throwers star getting for example: the new items on “hot stuff” and the Titan set or the evil henchmen set or the classic PR set or the Cyber cop set that all of them have over 50/50 or more on all of those seth not to even talk about the buffs that they get for “equiping the same piece” and thats just bullshit! why free players cant get Items easily without loose half a year trying to get an item that its going to be useless againt cash player who keep waisting and waisting and getting stronger and stronger + “hard to get even with GD spenders”…are you serious? why you think that they pay huh? Im sure that they turn those freaking chest like 5 or 10 a day + new items that keep coming out and please lets not talk about that crapy shop for free players that haves NOTHING its more they put GD n00b items to piss us off…..cmmon seeing all those new items for GD spenders and we are stuck with those F***** pilots set pieces……..

 
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Originally posted by puynsi:

Im okay with the “income” from GS to devs but either everything its SUNS,SUNS, SUNS and for those who dont pay we cant get Legend items without hard work and stuff when those cash-throwers star getting for example: the new items on “hot stuff” and the Titan set or the evil henchmen set or the classic PR set or the Cyber cop set that all of them have over 50/50 or more on all of those seth not to even talk about the buffs that they get for “equiping the same piece” and thats just bullshit! why free players cant get Items easily without loose half a year trying to get an item that its going to be useless againt cash player who keep waisting and waisting and getting stronger and stronger + “hard to get even with GD spenders”…are you serious? why you think that they pay huh? Im sure that they turn those freaking chest like 5 or 10 a day + new items that keep coming out and please lets not talk about that crapy shop for free players that haves NOTHING its more they put GD n00b items to piss us off…..cmmon seeing all those new items for GD spenders and we are stuck with those F***** pilots set pieces……..

You are stuck on pilot set pieces only because you do not understand this game yet. getting near 50/50 items does not require half a year of work.
The set proc bonus for equipping Titan, Cyber Cop or Henchmen gear is really low, especially for Cyber Cop set. Ill say it the third time again – Pvp including GD has no vital
part in this game, my impression is that some of you just get too jealous seeing someone with GS items or get a little too sensitive for seeing someone being able to attack you in a skirmish log.

 
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First of all, cash shop gear is NOT must have gear. Ultimately, once you’ve hit 7 lsi and start pumping bsi, you’ll realize the atk/def from your gear is really trivial compared to what you should be getting from stat crafts. Also, bsi stats in general play a much smaller role in determining your damage than your ship/crew/officers.

What should you be looking for in terms of gear then? +Energy/honor/stam and damage procs. As far as damage procs go, there are tons of endgame options that are free. Check out the legendary crafts for some prime examples. As far as lsi stats go, the legacy, high society, imperial finery, and storm commander’s sets are all free and very nice. Add dragon cycle to that list as well. You may think I’m full of crap, but I dropped 150ish atk/def in gear just to boost these stats.

New players, the reason everyone else is doing so much more damage than you isn’t their gear. It’s their ship/crew/officer setup. If you missed the world raids, you’re going to be extremely gimp compared to those who got a xid + officer + crew. That sucks, I know, but it’ll come around again. Save your free suns; don’t spend them on every thing that pops up each week or on expeditions. Wait until something really, really nice comes along (swooping dragon and quarg come to mind).