Battles scaling with level. AKA don't level up

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There is a huge problem with this game.

All the important battles scale with your level/leadership.

This is really bad game design because it is actually bad to be higher level. The enemy will have more troops as well, and you spend more gold replenishing troops that died.

Since you only get a few of the good units (immortals, legendaries etc), you don’t want to have high leadership since you can’t fill all your slots with the good units. Meanwhile the enemy automatically scales up all their troops and proceeds to kill large numbers of your mortal units each battle.

As in the other forum post, this leads to serious gold issues.

GAME DEVS: Never make negative side effects to leveling up.

PLAYERS: Just give up on this game unless you want to spend all your hard earned money at the cash shop.

 
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Originally posted by mdwuster:

There is a huge problem with this game.

All the important battles scale with your level/leadership.

This is really bad game design because it is actually bad to be higher level. The enemy will have more troops as well, and you spend more gold replenishing troops that died.

Since you only get a few of the good units (immortals, legendaries etc), you don’t want to have high leadership since you can’t fill all your slots with the good units. Meanwhile the enemy automatically scales up all their troops and proceeds to kill large numbers of your mortal units each battle.

As in the other forum post, this leads to serious gold issues.

GAME DEVS: Never make negative side effects to leveling up.

PLAYERS: Just give up on this game unless you want to spend all your hard earned money at the cash shop.

Some of the quests do scale with the player’s level. But you need to know that you’ll get the reward for accomplishing this or that quest only if the level difference is no more than 6 levels. That’s why the level of quest armies increases. You may repeat one and the same quest and get gold and exp even at 30th level. And that’s not bad.
At the same time you’ll always be able to add more Immortal and Legendary units to your army by doing the “wanted” quests.
Try to plan your actions and strategy thoroughly, don’t forget about the advantages and disadvantages of different classes of units. Everything is about the strategy. You can farm gold by fighting weaker armies and then use it to replenish your troops and strengthen your army.

 
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I kind of think this is a problem too. Sure, quests scaling with level makes sense. However, the quests continuing to scale with you as you level doesn’t.

I think it would be better if the quest troops and rewards are determined by your level when you accept the quest, and stay that way no matter how much you level after accepting that quest. Then, you can have the choice of fighting those troops now at a reasonable difficulty for your current level and get a reward suitable for your level, or you can hold off and come back later for an easier difficulty, but also a lesser reward for whatever level you come back to. This would allow quests to scale as you level so you can pick up daily quests later at higher levels, but also still give players the option to come back later if they find it too difficult for them to complete effectively.

Just my 2 cents.

 
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PLAYERS: Just give up on this game unless you want to spend all your hard earned money at the cash shop.”

I really haven’t had too much of a problem so far at level 11. I have enough gold that I can replenish my units, and there are enough monster shops to get the ones I need at a decent price. The negative side effect to leveling up is a difficulty increase, and depending on the type of player you are, this could be incentive; having to deploy more strategy. The one big improvement you can get is upgrading your units through gold spent which is nice.

I do admit that I try to complete all my quests before leveling and then turning them in so that I level after the missions. No biggy.

I guess a good question is how can the player feel more rewarded per level up? Maybe a talent tree to specialize in certain aspects my help. Oh, and easy fix is to have the gold and experience reward/prize also scale with your lvl if the monsters do as well.

 
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In my experience, leveling up boosts your power in more ways than enemies scale. You get a flat Leadership increase, access to new equipment in the workshop and other miscellaneous bonuses.

If you’re having issues maxing out slots, you’re probably grinding in one place for too long or using a unit you have too little of. Sure, you could use those 2 Knights or whatever you got randomly from a troop pack, but it’s probably not a good idea. Finding new Immortal/Legendary units is half of the fun.

And yeah, I agree that cash shops where core game items can be bought ruin the experience, and that pay2win becoming the norm is pretty terrible. But the game is still fun if you ignore it.

 
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And yeah, I agree that cash shops where core game items can be bought ruin the experience, and that pay2win becoming the norm is pretty terrible. But the game is still fun if you ignore it.

As a matter of fact, you can get the Legendaries and Immortals by fighting “wanted” armies + you get weekly bonus for entering the game 7 days in a row and you also get some when you level-up. We plan to provide more and more opportunities of getting “premium” items by the in-game methods (like for example, making licenses and auras in the Item Workshop).

 
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Thanks for the heads up. I hate games that scale this way. Just positively hate.

 
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Originally posted by NivalPublishing:

And yeah, I agree that cash shops where core game items can be bought ruin the experience, and that pay2win becoming the norm is pretty terrible. But the game is still fun if you ignore it.

As a matter of fact, you can get the Legendaries and Immortals by fighting “wanted” armies + you get weekly bonus for entering the game 7 days in a row and you also get some when you level-up. We plan to provide more and more opportunities of getting “premium” items by the in-game methods (like for example, making licenses and auras in the Item Workshop).

That’s nice to hear. Treating an online game as a business is fine, but the Playmage approach of “sure, the game is ‘free’, but shovel me 100 dollars or get crushed” is just dirty. At that point, I’d rather just pay a monthly subscription fee, or play one of the many actually free games out there.

Supporting the developer should give you a small boost or something cosmetic, not a ticket to break the game. I’m glad you see it the same way.

 
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pretty much the only thing that is a buff from leveling is the stamina refill and bonus? Blah.

 
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Originally posted by Sajin86:

pretty much the only thing that is a buff from leveling is the stamina refill and bonus? Blah.

You get extra Leadership and access to more equipment recipes.

Enemy units have the same base leadership as you, so they keep up with your numbers, but their stats don’t scale. If you’re as strong as you can be for your current level (best equipment, reasonably upgraded troops), you end up much stronger than anything that would scale to you.

But really, stats and numbers don’t mean half as much as good strategy.

 
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so the game gets harder as you play more? SHOCKING!!!

 
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Originally posted by gigaclon:

so the game gets harder as you play more? SHOCKING!!!

ahahaHAHAHA!

Okay, but I see the point. You meet a tough quest battle and figure you’ll come back for it when you’re stronger. But when you do, you find that the enemies have been hitting the gym as well. This could keep happening in a cycle. Unless you get smarter about the way you play. …Which is the best thing to happen to any game!

 
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Originally posted by TheSilenT:
Originally posted by Sajin86:

pretty much the only thing that is a buff from leveling is the stamina refill and bonus? Blah.

You get extra Leadership and access to more equipment recipes.

Enemy units have the same base leadership as you, so they keep up with your numbers, but their stats don’t scale. If you’re as strong as you can be for your current level (best equipment, reasonably upgraded troops), you end up much stronger than anything that would scale to you.

But really, stats and numbers don’t mean half as much as good strategy.

Absolutely agree with you, TheSilenT!

 
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Could the damaging spell get some kind of scaling? I’ve max out my fiery arrow so i cant boost it potential anymore. However, every time i lvl up the spell become less and less powerful as enemy now have more troops.

Another thing that need proper scaling is wanted reward. At low lvl getting 1 paladin per 10 friend is reasonable since you dont need many to have a full stack. But as you get higher in lvl, 1 unit wont help you much at all.

I dont really like this scaling with lvl thing we got here, but since it here let’s make it fair atleast and not an handicap.

 
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everytime i level up the game just scales way up… fiery arrow now takes 1-2 units, gold doesnt every time lower and lower, some equipment is imposible to make ( needs pvp and no thanks russians!), repeatable quests just annoying to do ( always somewhat stronger aint right… at least the scalling should be lower, it cant be i am lvl 15 in the first port and still gang stronger and insanely difficult).

 
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Tend to agree that is a problem.

Some solutions:
1) Hard-cap the power of scaling battles.
2) Soft-cap the power of scaling battles. (This is probably the best solution — enemy troop power should eventually peter off from endlessly increasing at a linear pace with level.)
3) Scale the rewards.

At present, doing patrol seems really counterproductive since it boosts your level WITHOUT giving you all the important stuff you would get through chosen WANTEDs and dailies. This may be one of the few pay-2-play games where an item you buy in the shop may unwittingly make the game more difficult for you (the Ranger’s license).

All griping about this issue aside, I am really enjoying this game.

 
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Yep, I am starting to have trouble killing enemies and what not, the problem is it is costing me tons of gold just to replenish my troops/spells so I am actually going into a negative gain of gold. I cannot upgrade my existing troops and for the most part am just stuck waiting for friends to gift me or spam patrol… Most enemy mobs are now at least “somewhat stronger” and sometimes I cannot kill them and lose. The problem is I still gain exp which makes me level up, which makes the enemies even stronger although I’m still stuck around the same fighting capacity.

 
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The gold costs are a bit much, you’re right. The rewards don’t scale to the costs well enough. Even being conservative and not spamming spells, you still lose quite a bit when fighting anything strong, especially if any Immortal or Legendary units die. That’s a pretty penny and a big chunk of stamina.

 
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Originally posted by TheSilenT:

The gold costs are a bit much, you’re right. The rewards don’t scale to the costs well enough.

Absolutely agree with you, TheSilenT!

 
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Indeed in the King’s bounty game lots of the stacks are pre-determined rather than scaling to you (at least from what I’ve seen in my playthroughs). Just because you have 2 stacks of dragons doesn’t mean the enemy will have a stack of equal power to your dragons and so forth.

 
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The scaling thing dun seem that bad to me as u guys making it look. From what I seen when u come back to a harder battle later, it still is easier than before even after it scaled. Also not all the dailys scale, making the ones who does’t really easy to repeat and replenish ur troops. I do agree thu that the speed at which the battles scale should be reduced atleast a bit.

If u losing most of ur troops then u probably just speeding to much. This is an MMO, and as such requires grinding. If the battles are to hard and u lose more than u earn then go back and keep ur self busy with daily quests u can do. The rewards are nice and u can easly earn money and troops that way until the time that u can do more diffcut battles. This game ain’t supposed to be played thru in a week.. Other than that inquisitors are the best money savers later on, so try to get them a.s.a.p. And remember this is a strategy game, so try using more strategy. The game IS playable the way it is now and it IS possible to be making more money than loosing later on. If it isn’t for u then u are probably the one doing something wrong.

Having said that I do believe this game is made much more for startegy gamers, than casual gamers and will probably lose many players who ain’t too good at strategy because of that. Personaly I like it as much as many others do thu:)

 
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“If u losing most of ur troops then u probably just speeding to much. This is an MMO, and as such requires grinding. If the battles are to hard and u lose more than u earn then go back and keep ur self busy with daily quests u can do.”

You’re using the term “grinding” incorrectly. Running daily quests is the right way to do it — but that’s not “grinding.” In this case, grinding would refer to either
1) Fighting non-quest related monsters over and over again for gold/exp (ex: “The Maritime Brotherhood” in Karakol)
2) Running patrols over and over again for extra gold/exp.

At present, taking either of these actions (as would be the expected norm) is counterproductive, and will ultimately make playing the game more difficult due to the lack of resources obtained. You’re better off doing neither of these and just doing dailies, storyline quests, and Wanteds.

 
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A note for the developers: I played King’s Bounty Armoured princess as well as Heroes of Might and Magic before and I really enjoyed both. However, I must say that as an RPG game, the enemies scale way too fast… In heroes of might and magic, the enemies also scale, but they scale much slower.

 
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Here’s a thought: maybe make spell power damage get multiplied by loyalty? Obviously the base damage would have to be something lower, or the whole thing would need to be divided by 500 or something, but certain parts of the game pretty much do seem to out-grow you.

Also, I rarely ever see patroling give exp, 9 times out of 10 I end up getting just gold from it, which is fine with me. Personally I like leveling up because it lets me overcome non-scaled battles easier. I don’t think any of the main questline battles are scaled, and usually only 1 daily quest per town is scaled. Having a battle scale in a way that makes it higher level than you forever is poor design though. The daily quest in the dock town (mentioned in the thread, but I already forgot the name) is a fine example of how not to scale.

 
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Uh gosh scaling enemy level so totally sucks. And I cant really see the point, because fighting always costs you 5 energy. If you want to use that energy on low level enemys with lesser rewards, do so. No need to scale em up.
Right now Im Lvl 11 and dont have all the troops, not to mention they are mostly unupped. There is practically no way I can kill any criminal gangs, because they just have more and mostly better units. Last fight I retreated at the middle of the fight, because it was apperent I would use all my units if I continue, and I had spells (mine+friends) every turn and a good strategy/setup.

Right now I dont feel like I want to continue playing that game.