[Guide] Math Strategies page 6

142 posts

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Originally posted by GoodPeople:

Hi.
I have 28867 attack with Sera. I still can’t kill 11-6 with 2xIB2, it just happens some times maybe 1 in 10 attempt’s. What am i doing wrong?

It happens when your computer lags or you’re using a slow computer. If the game is running smoothly, the numbers in the chart always will work. However, if the game lags when you’re playing, it can (and probably will) miss some hits very often. In this case, Ice blast II has 2 hits, but it could count only one and sometimes none.

 
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gust4v3 is another farm?? lol

 
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Originally posted by gust4v3:

Item Drop Rate: strategies

based on version 1.43


Part 1) What you should know

d) If you don’t believe in these numbers, or if you still believe the drop rate is rigged, or if you believe there is a World conspiracy against you, well… I recommend that you read the game’s source-code: http://s17.postimage.org/o0y7ndg3x/code_item.png . You can see the code, it’s pure luck / random.

There is a problem with this piece of code. Let us say that “expression” = DatasaveUSER.d_quest[BattleQuestID]
The code then says:
if ( “expression” >= 5 )
{
do A
}
else if ( “expression” >= 15 )
{
do B
}
else if ( “expression” >= 30 )
{
do C
}

The result of this code is that if “expression” is less than 5, nothing happens,
if expression is more than 5, only action A will occur, B & C will never occur.
If the condition checking is inverted, then all 3 actions A, B, & C may occur.

This error only gives you credit for a maximum of 1 star (100%) for mission mastery. Equipping 2 extra thief rings can counter this bug. I.e. Use 6 thief rings with item(M) instead of 4, for rare drops. You cannot equip 8 thief rings for common drops but if you can get an item(L) bonus this would be equivalent to 2 item(M) bonuses.

UPDATE: After doing some experimentation, I now believe that the problem does really exist and the solution is as suggested. The problem could be proven by a true statistical test, if any of you are up to doing such an experiment.

UPDATE: I spoke to gust4v3 about this and he said he reported this problem to artlogic but does not know that it was ever fixed.

 
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Requesting sticky.

 
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REVIVE!

 
This post has been removed by an administrator or moderator
 
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Please kongregate mods, remove this post from the forums, its teaching other players how to glitch the game to get a gigantic amount of the premium currency.

 
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Originally posted by sotlat:
Originally posted by gust4v3:

Item Drop Rate: strategies

based on version 1.43


Part 1) What you should know

d) If you don’t believe in these numbers, or if you still believe the drop rate is rigged, or if you believe there is a World conspiracy against you, well… I recommend that you read the game’s source-code: http://s17.postimage.org/o0y7ndg3x/code_item.png . You can see the code, it’s pure luck / random.

There is a problem with this piece of code. Let us say that “expression” = DatasaveUSER.d_quest[BattleQuestID]
The code then says:
if ( “expression” >= 5 )
{
do A
}
else if ( “expression” >= 15 )
{
do B
}
else if ( “expression” >= 30 )
{
do C
}

The result of this code is that if “expression” is less than 5, nothing happens,
if expression is more than 5, only action A will occur, B & C will never occur.
If the condition checking is inverted, then all 3 actions A, B, & C may occur.

This error only gives you credit for a maximum of 1 star (100%) for mission mastery. Equipping 2 extra thief rings can counter this bug. I.e. Use 6 thief rings with item(M) instead of 4, for rare drops. You cannot equip 8 thief rings for common drops but if you can get an item(L) bonus this would be equivalent to 2 item(M) bonuses.

UPDATE: After doing some experimentation, I now believe that the problem does really exist and the solution is as suggested. The problem could be proven by a true statistical test, if any of you are up to doing such an experiment.

UPDATE: I spoke to gust4v3 about this and he said he reported this problem to artlogic but does not know that it was ever fixed.

If you pay attention to line 153 of the code, the max drop rate boost for rares u can get from items is 5%. So equipping 6 thief rings would be pointless for rare drops, and the actual max drop rate for rares is then 11% :( I hope I’m wrong.

 
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Originally posted by garutto:
Originally posted by sotlat:
Originally posted by gust4v3:

Item Drop Rate: strategies

based on version 1.43



If you pay attention to line 153 of the code, the max drop rate boost for rares u can get from items is 5%. So equipping 6 thief rings would be pointless for rare drops, and the actual max drop rate for rares is then 11% :( I hope I’m wrong.

I didn’t want to look at that again, it’s quite convoluted… sigh… I did it just because I was asked to… There are some assumptions that I’m making with this. I’m confident but there’s obviously no guarantee.

The variables loc1 and loc2 represent the value for common and rare drops respectively.

The initial value for loc1 is between 0 and .3 depending on items being worn.
If the user obtained 1 star for mastery, the value is increased by .05
For 2 stars it’s .1
For 3 stars it’s .15
If the new new value for loc1 is more than .7 then the extra amount is removed.

The initial value for loc2 is between 0 and .05
For 1 star the increase is .01
For 2 stars it’s .02
For 3 stars it’s .03
If the new new value for loc2 is more than .12 then the extra amount is removed.

Your max value for common vs. rare items are therefore 70% and 12% respectively.
This is exactly what gust4v3 says.
QED

So, the precise value depends on what gear you are wearing and mission mastery.
Those values are also explained by gust4v3.

 
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Originally posted by sotlat:

The initial value for loc2 is between 0 and .05

Exactly.

_loc2 = a + b + c
a = 0.05 (base drop)
b = value between 0 and 0.05 depending on items being worn, as sot said
c = due to the logic error pointed by sot this value is always 0.01

So “_loc2”, the variable for rare drop rate, receives 5%(base drop rate), plus the maximum value of 5% (item boost), plus 1% (1 star mission). That makes 5% + 5% + 1% = 11%.

loc2 = 0.05 + Math.min(GameManager.formPlayer.boostitem*0.1, 0.05);

I’m assuming 2 things too:

-the function “GameManagerformPlayer.boost_item*0.1” returns the % boost u get from using items;

-the function Math.min() returns the minimum value of 2 values.

If thats so, this function always returns the minimum value between 0.05 and the boost u receive from items. So 0.05=5% is the max boost from items, even if u wear 6 thief rings.

I’m sorry to bother u guys with this.

 
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Originally posted by garutto:
Originally posted by sotlat:

The initial value for loc2 is between 0 and .05

Exactly.

garutto, you are correct! You made an excellent observation. It took a bit of effort to understand your point, but now I see it. That code segment has 2 errors in it! Wearing extra thief rings won’t fix this problem. I hope these guys never work on medical equipment.

To summarize:

  • The maximum initial value for common items is .55 + .05 for any stars (1, 2, or 3).
    So the maximum drop rate for common items is 60% (not 70).
  • The maximum initial value for rare items is .1 + .01 for any stars (1, 2, 3).
    So the maximum drop rates for rare items is 11% (not 12).
 
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So they’ve never corrected this? I wondered if this code was still actual
sotlat: it’s not an error, just another limitation. if only conditions were in right order, it wouldn’t be a problem

techical note: 5% + 5% + 1% = 5.3025% :) seems like some of you people never heard about ‘percentage points’ (pp)

and starting values for loc1/loc2 are .3/.05, not ‘between 0 and .3/.05’

 
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Originally posted by czaka:

So they’ve never corrected this? I wondered if this code was still actual

I would be very surprised if this code has been updated/fixed.

sotlat: it’s not an error, just another limitation. if only conditions were in right order, it wouldn’t be a problem

Yes, that’s the reason why we’re talking about this.

techical note: 5% + 5% + 1% = 5.3025% :) seems like some of you people never heard about ‘percentage points’ (pp)

Your statement applies to the percentage of a percentage, which is only one way to calculate bonuses in games. In many games, bonuses are stacked (next to each other and not on top of each other) so that in those cases .05 + .05 + .01 = .11 (and not .053025).

starting values for loc1/loc2 are .3/.05, not ‘between 0 and .3/.05’

Hmmm… I think you are mostly right about this. The starting value of loc1 & loc2 is convoluted. Even if you do not wear item(+) gear but have at least 1 star, the minimal values of loc1 & loc2 are .3/.06.

So the drop rate for common items is from 30% to 60% and drop rate for rare items is from 6% to 11%. This explains why people get stuff with no item(+) gear.

That’s what “bad code does for you”, makes it confusing to figure out what it actually does. I would fire this programmer, he’s too smart for his own good. Or maybe his day job is to write code for online casinos?

 
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I would be very surprised if this code has been updated/fixed.

I decided to check it by myself and, unfortunatelly, you’re right. What’s funny, they even have changed names of loc1 and loc2 variables since gust4v3 posted the code, but apparently never spotted the error (they = Ferry Sugiarto, i guess).

btw. if somebody was curious, daily chances are 5% for crystal, and 80% for gold, on both servers

Your statement applies to the percentage of a percentage, which is only one way to calculate bonuses in games.

Term ‘percentage’ (%) has only one meaning – one hundredth part of some value. Hence, notation ‘+5%’ also has only one meaning – adding five hundredth parts to some value (in other words, multiplying it by 1.05).
To easily express ‘nonrelative’ changes of percentage-given values, people coined term ‘percentage point’ (the same applies to permille and permyriad, naturally).

Yes, in games you can often find incorrect use of ‘%’, like for example it states that accuracy increases by 20%, when in fact it is about 20 percentage points (that can be denoted as ‘%points’ or pp), lets say from 50% to 70% (wchich is 40% increase, as easy to calculate).

While in games it can be somehow excused by technical limitations (like there’s no short, wide recognizable sign for perc. point), the same action in our writing can be only explained by lack of knowledge. So, i wish to inform everyone who needs (and wants) that, about this question.

One more thing: i was also wrong about loc1/loc2 basic values. Those are .25/.05, not .3/.05, sorry, everyone.

 
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Originally posted by czaka:

I decided to check it by myself

Cool. Can you tell me how you do that? I use chrome and all I want is the basic commands to go look but not if it’s overly complicated. I’m just curious but not terribly interested.

Yes, in games you can often find incorrect use of ‘%’

It seems I too was not aware of this “misuse”, I was blindly following the crowd on that one. Thanks for instructing us :)

 
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Cool, now I understand why on TV they say percentage points and not just “percent” when they talk about an increase in the president’s approval rating, for example.

 
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Bump