Shockingly bad

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The Shocker

Seems to occasionally cause large numbers of the players to fall through the ground.

1. Instant death against scouts, assassins, long ranged gunners.
2. Low damage of Lightning gun causes Shocker to not have a mid-close range weapon to fend off enemies.
3. Aegis deals low damage at low range.
4. Those EMP mines?… EDIT: I found a good use for them, but they still do kill me sometimes…
5. Lack of a high-movement system to dodge anything, which Tech has (tether/slingshot).
6. Shocker slowly heals shields, comparable to that of Tech healing players, which makes shield repair nearly useless, as shields heal much faster after battle.
7. Extreme difficulty of aiming the Lightning gun to hit targets (enemies or friendlies) without using lock-on, which Tech can do (largely affected by my low fps and freezing…), but still hard to aim the Lightning gun and look for hazards (ex: can’t look for hostiles, at your Aegis, for incoming Assassins, etc.).
8. Shocker is not rewarded for using the lightning gun, Tech has “Hyper-Charge”, but Shocker is not rewarded for usage
9. @Dodar: The Bigger they are the Harder they fall; Aegis gets easier to destroy as it gets larger

Basically, Tech trumps Shocker and makes Tech look good.

Proposed changes to fix:
1. Either have Shocker quickly heal shields or make it easier to use the Lightning gun.
2. Make the Aegis health/shields bar right above the Aegis
3. Add “r” ability dealing up to 500 amount of electric healing/damage to current targets calculated through gun overheat% (Lightning gun will not inherently do this with an automatic reload) or something.

Hopeful change:
-Lower graphics quality than right now, I have major fps issues more often now.

@Glock243: Shockers are only powerful in groups when you have cohesiveness, which doesn’t happen all too often, but it falls back down when you get quite a few shockers (gunners start showing up and stuff).

@Pad: I have been fighting Blazers and Blasters tooth and nail, to me dying half of the time. However, mind that this is Shuttle I’m playing in and I actually can predict where people might be to put some Orbs. I would play Lunar to test out how well I would do, but seeing how open and lacking shielding of Aegis (only takes 1-2 enemies to take it all out), I predict my failure. Also, I am running away as a Shocker from a Blazer, Blazer pulls out heat ray while I’m throwing Orbs backwards, I die. There were also quite a few times where I was like “yeahhh, gonna kill this guy.” Nope, not enough range on the Lightning gun.

I feel this is a pretty good description, I will update this again when there is another update.

 
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I agree with what Qweztu has said. He is absolutely right about the weakness of the Shocker.

One of the biggest faults outlined here is that the Shocker heals shields rather than health, with shields being far weaker (due to no armor calculations for shield) than health.

The changes I would like to see:

1. Proximity mines cannot affect the user nor players on his team, even when their time has elapsed (Both Tech and Shocker mines would be changed).

2. In addition to its current effects, the Shocker’s e-ability stuns all enemies within range for 1 second.

3. The rate of shield repair is increased to be about 125% of what it is now. No more than that.

4. Increase the damage dealt by the Aegis Generator and the range at which the damage may affect an enemy target (does it currently affect the entire sphere? I think not).

Please don’t make the Shocker the side-kick class to the Tech. The way it is now, a Tech will always be more important to the team than a Shocker (IF given the option of only having one).

 
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Mostly just wanted to say clever title; something you don’t see much in the forums :P
But yes, shocker is quite UP. The main issue I’ve said is that he heals shield, which not only regenerates itself, but there is less of it to heal. I haven’t really played with him in big games, but he does need some help to hold his own. Dodar (one of the devs) already said in the Dec. 1st update thread that they are planning a buff and will see if it needs more after that.

 
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I think the lightning gun’s range needs to be longer, but I like the current field (it will only attack a small 30 degreeish angle in front of it unlike the repair beam which can shoot backwards). I think it should chain more (maybe up to 5 at a time?) to be more useful but maintain the current field to keep it skill-based. Also, the fact that it needs reload makes it rather weak as well. The shocker’s e ability seems to be rather delayed as I’ve had multiple times where I’ve clicked it, seen my shield go back up but then die instantly after.

Side note: End the falling through ground bug by telling everyone who is a shocker to switch to a different class or click q as soon as they respawn.

 
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Originally posted by Djinn99:

Mostly just wanted to say clever title; something you don’t see much in the forums :P

I remember a TECH-nically unviable thread from a while ago in this same spirit. Was that made by you too qweztu?

 
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Shockers are powerful in groups.

 
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Originally posted by speakofsilence:
Originally posted by Djinn99:

Mostly just wanted to say clever title; something you don’t see much in the forums :P

I remember a TECH-nically unviable thread from a while ago in this same spirit. Was that made by you too qweztu?

I wrote that thread.

 
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The new classes need serious rebalancing. The Shocker is just one example of this…

 
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Originally posted by StrangeMinion:

The new classes need serious rebalancing. The Shocker is just one example of this…

am i the only one that thinks the gunner’s AR seems OP now? i got 2 bursted by it with an assasin and 4 bursted by it with a blaster!

the blazer is SOOOOOOOO incredibly easy to kill people with. if you have 2 blazers that just run around shooting stuff with the heat rays, there is no stopping them. 1 blazer is hard enough to deal with, but 2 is just impossible.

blaster dies far too quickly to be useful.

most classes actually seem to die SOOOO much faster now, it’s like all weapons got buffed by 25% or SOMETHING, because with more than 1 person at a cap, you nearly die the SECOND you get there.

assasin needs more armor or more hp. because 2 bursts from AR, or a 4 second burst from heat ray will ruin his day.

 
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Not saying you are correct. But please consider what chassis a class belongs to when comparing. The Assassin is a light chassis, like the Scout. It should die pretty fast.

Also please read the Build Notes. Dodar posted a long explanation of class design there.

 
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Are enemies meant to be able to get into Aegis?
I hope not, because otherwise, its useless. Sure it can shoot enemies, but it’s rather low damage and has terrible range. Nothing to persuade enemies not to come inside. I was healing my Aegis full time, and suddenly a scout came. It was destroyed in 5 seconds despite me healing. Most people bomb me and than go in for the kill. If Aegis allows enemies to come inside, I recommend changing this. Oh, and FRG, didn’t you post in another forum you were going to up the range of the Aegis?

 
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- blaster is not useless, just hard to use
- blazer is not op, is killable with any class. its good to kill noobs(cuz of the high close combat damage that they cant avoid cuz they are noobs, usually u dont even have to chase them, they just come to your flame like with a sword or something then after suiciding says blazer its op, and then go suicide again)

have to pratice more the new other classes to have a opinion

PS: im bored to say this over and over since months, but there are not OP classes or weaps or any other things, just player that praticed more and played that praticed less, each thing have is pros and cons(against a class, or a wep, or in a particular map, or in particular team conditions)

if u dont get this, your ‘OPINION’ is just a useless raging blabla. so, just use your brain before talking, please?

 
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Originally posted by freerangegames:

Not saying you are correct. But please consider what chassis a class belongs to when comparing. The Assassin is a light chassis, like the Scout. It should die pretty fast.

Also please read the Build Notes. Dodar posted a long explanation of class design there.

then why is assassins dmg so weak compared to scout

 
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Originally posted by Padrone1987:

- blaster is not useless, just hard to use
- blazer is not op, is killable with any class. its good to kill noobs(cuz of the high close combat damage that they cant avoid cuz they are noobs, usually u dont even have to chase them, they just come to your flame like with a sword or something then after suiciding says blazer its op, and then go suicide again)

have to pratice more the new other classes to have a opinion

PS: im bored to say this over and over since months, but there are not OP classes or weaps or any other things, just player that praticed more and played that praticed less, each thing have is pros and cons(against a class, or a wep, or in a particular map, or in particular team conditions)

if u dont get this, your ‘OPINION’ is just a useless raging blabla. so, just use your brain before talking, please?

I pretty much agree with this.

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Originally posted by freerangegames:

Not saying you are correct. But please consider what chassis a class belongs to when comparing. The Assassin is a light chassis, like the Scout. It should die pretty fast.

Also please read the Build Notes. Dodar posted a long explanation of class design there.

then why is assassins dmg so weak compared to scout

It ius not week. Have you even tried the blades with e? though i do think the needlers could use a slight buff or something.

 
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Originally posted by Padrone1987:

- blaster is not useless, just hard to use
- blazer is not op, is killable with any class. its good to kill noobs(cuz of the high close combat damage that they cant avoid cuz they are noobs, usually u dont even have to chase them, they just come to your flame like with a sword or something then after suiciding says blazer its op, and then go suicide again)

have to pratice more the new other classes to have a opinion

PS: im bored to say this over and over since months, but there are not OP classes or weaps or any other things, just player that praticed more and played that praticed less, each thing have is pros and cons(against a class, or a wep, or in a particular map, or in particular team conditions)

if u dont get this, your ‘OPINION’ is just a useless raging blabla. so, just use your brain before talking, please?

what you have to take into consideration, paddycake, is that nothing will be perfectly balanced with the 1st update it comes in. everything was very well balanced before this update, because it was much more simple, now with everybody having different EVERYTHING, it is too much for any number of people to get perfect on the 1st try. the gunner+shatterbomb=OP because it 3-4 bursts even heavy chassis, 2 bursts light chassis, and 2-3 bursts med chassis.
so the answer is YES. some things are OP/UP at the moment, but within the next few patches, they should be ironed out so the advantages/disadvantages to every class are not so evident.

 
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Originally posted by cloakerx:
Originally posted by Padrone1987:

- blaster is not useless, just hard to use
- blazer is not op, is killable with any class. its good to kill noobs(cuz of the high close combat damage that they cant avoid cuz they are noobs, usually u dont even have to chase them, they just come to your flame like with a sword or something then after suiciding says blazer its op, and then go suicide again)

have to pratice more the new other classes to have a opinion

PS: im bored to say this over and over since months, but there are not OP classes or weaps or any other things, just player that praticed more and played that praticed less, each thing have is pros and cons(against a class, or a wep, or in a particular map, or in particular team conditions)

if u dont get this, your ‘OPINION’ is just a useless raging blabla. so, just use your brain before talking, please?

I pretty much agree with this.

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Originally posted by freerangegames:

Not saying you are correct. But please consider what chassis a class belongs to when comparing. The Assassin is a light chassis, like the Scout. It should die pretty fast.

Also please read the Build Notes. Dodar posted a long explanation of class design there.

then why is assassins dmg so weak compared to scout

It ius not week. Have you even tried the blades with e? though i do think the needlers could use a slight buff or something.

needlers are where the assasin falls short. i think i said this in another thread. but boost the alpha damage and give them tracking ability of up to 80m with a lock-on of 40m, and call it a day =D

PS: alpha of the needlers doesn’t need more than 50% buff

 
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Padrone is just flat out wrong. Balance is something that the game creators have to work towards. What you mean to suggest, Padrone, is that the meta-game balances things much better than at lower-skilled levels of play.

This is correct to a large extent (classes that are easier to play are considered OP’d at lower levels of play, etc), but that doesn’t mean that a class can’t be fundamentally imbalanced itself.

These classes are rough around the edges, and need a lot of work.

From what I can see:

Assassin: Blades need to be wired like the Saber, and allow the Assassin to make rushing attacks towards his target. The Ambush Blades Enabled don’t do this well enough, because… First, you bounce off your target after using enabled. Second, it’s Cooldown is just long enough to make it an unreliable way of sticking with an enemy. Third, having 1 attack every 3 seconds isn’t good enough to keep up damage. Fourth, enabled+Ambuscade (R-key) isn’t a viable combo against moving targets, like you would hope it to be. This is because Ambuscade’s strength is moving and hitting, but enabled causes your momentum to stop after hitting a target. Coming from someone who really favors the assassin, it needs a lot of fixes to the blades and the needler. For a class without a mobility-e button, a lot is asked and a lot is required.

Blaster: Only one I haven’t played much of. Seems pretty strong in a lot of scenarios. The Q-tility is much stronger than what I originally thought it to be. Good assist for the tank.

Shocker: Like OP said, needs to be reworked all around.

Blazer: Interesting idea to have a mid-close range fighter without tank-like stats. Probably requires some of the most skills to use (at the meta-game), but is almost childishly easy against lower skilled players. Heat Ray needs to stack Flame at a lower rate.

Love this game, etc. But it needs a lot of polishing at the moment.

P.S. Stop with the infernal lag!
P.S.S. Make it so that grenades that cause a lot of lag (I.E., smoke/flame) may only be placed once per class active. I.E., a scout can only place 1 smoke grenade, but 2 scouts could place 2, etc.

 
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hey guys, lots of good feedback here. lots of balancing to go for sure. with regard to the Shocker (and the Tech as well), it is always tricky to balance support classes since they have synergistic qualities when grouped with teammates playing other roles. in other words, attempts to make them viable in solo situations can quickly lead to them being OP in groups. they shouldn’t be able to win most 1v1 conflicts (assuming similar skill levels), but ideally they wouldn’t feel completely useless in a fight on their own.

as stated in the patch notes, we’ve increased the Aegis Device’s force field capacity by 50% and moved the hp bar down some, which should make it easier to recharge. his Lightning Gun may still need a slight buff, but we have to be careful since it hits three targets and also force field heals friendlies (and the Shocker as well through heal feedback). it shouldn’t do as much damage as weapons without these extra features. if his maneuverability feels too weak, i could try making the target locked Lightning Gun tractor-beam pull you towards your target when airborne, like the Repair Beam. would be interesting to see how that plays, since the Lightning Gun hits enemies and friendlies…

regarding EMP Mines- these should not be hitting your teammates, though they will hit the Shocker when they blow up. i can see how that is especially annoying when they’ve simply blown up from timing out, so perhaps i’ll make them fade after time out instead of detonate. the self damage on enemy-triggered detonation is intentional however, since we don’t want players planting mines and then standing on top of them. i may increased their duration as well, but not until i’ve set up mines to expire on class changes (i consider the lack of this feature to be a bug currently).

“2. In addition to its current effects, the Shocker’s e-ability stuns all enemies within range for 1 second.”

this is a really interesting idea that i may try out. wouldn’t want the stun to be too long, but it does seem to fit the Shocker motif. makes me think that perhaps the Tech’s Nano Surge could do a bit of knockback (just a bit) to nearby enemies too, which would allow it to have a bit of the ‘get off of me!’ value that the Tech’s old kick had.

“Are enemies meant to be able to get into Aegis?”

yes, the force field is not meant to prevent enemies from getting within, and attacking the Aegis from within its Force Field will do HP damage directly to it, bypassing the Force Field completely. this is the primary ‘achilles heel’ of the Aegis Device. the tactic that the Aegis Device is meant to encourage is for the Shocker and several teammates to get inside and attempt to kill any enemies that try to get in. the Blaster is probably the best partner for the Shocker in this role, since his Repulsion Field will keep all baddies out of your Aegis while he doles out lots of damage.

 
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Please do NOT make the lightning gun slingshot when attacking enemies. This would be extremely powerful against the slower moving classes because they almost literally could not escape. Doing it for allies though makes sense enough though. And if you are going to add stun to the shocker’s E-bility please make sure that it isn’t the stun that was on the flare gun and sonic disruptor, that would be far too strong for an E-bility to have.

 
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Hmmmmmm, I do agree with dodar in the fact that support classes are much harder to balance, and I agree with Djinn that slingshot on enemies would be annoying, especially in the blaster’s case. Perhaps putting an “r” function that slows enemy movement by 30% and saps shield for 10 seconds to enemies, and increases friendly movement by 30% and regenerates shields for 10 seconds. The “r” function would only be able to be activated at a 100% charge bar and of course the rate at which the charge bar increases would have to be slowed down. Perhaps charge bar could max out at 25 seconds. As for the Aegis device, it’s a bit more dependent than the suppressor. Aegis does not do damage like the suppressor does. Also, I do like the notion of getting back bits and pieces of the old tech kick (RIP…) in the new tech and shocker e-abilities. In regards to both the aegis and surppressor, I still see that the shockwave is still there. I haven’t gotten the time to test it yet, so any comments on whether or not the shockwave is still… errrr… useless?

 
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ooh, giving the Lightning Gun an R move is a much better idea, gex. and i agree about the stun, djinn, though the real issue with the flare gun and disruptor’s stuns is that they were basic weapons instead of QEF abilities with longer cool-downs. as it turns out, ‘spammable’ stuns are patently unfun. ;)

 
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Originally posted by M_Sixteen:
Originally posted by StrangeMinion:

The new classes need serious rebalancing. The Shocker is just one example of this…

am i the only one that thinks the gunner’s AR seems OP now? i got 2 bursted by it with an assasin and 4 bursted by it with a blaster!

the blazer is SOOOOOOOO incredibly easy to kill people with. if you have 2 blazers that just run around shooting stuff with the heat rays, there is no stopping them. 1 blazer is hard enough to deal with, but 2 is just impossible.

blaster dies far too quickly to be useful.

most classes actually seem to die SOOOO much faster now, it’s like all weapons got buffed by 25% or SOMETHING, because with more than 1 person at a cap, you nearly die the SECOND you get there.

assasin needs more armor or more hp. because 2 bursts from AR, or a 4 second burst from heat ray will ruin his day.

The blaster is pretty good in one on one against anything but the Tank and the Blazer, and is alright at holding off groups of smaller enemies.
The Blazer is overpowered as shit!
The Shocker is underpowered as shit!
The Assassin has both underpowered AND overpowered factors. The Blades and the Needles are underpowered, while the Poison and the F-Bomb are overpowered.
The rest of the classes are well balanced with each other, but that goes right out the window when the other classes are introduced. A Blaster can actually rip apart a Scout AND a Tech at the exact same time if the player is good enough, and a Tank is an Assassin’s worst nightmare!

 
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Originally posted by StrangeMinion: a Tank is an Assassin’s worst nightmare!

That would be the blazer.

 
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An assassin can kill a tank after shell is down in around 5 secs how? ambush blades enabled poison kryphein(sp?) = dead tank, blazer on the other hand = dead assassin no matter what.

 
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Originally posted by klackerer:

An assassin can kill a tank after shell is down in around 5 secs how? ambush blades enabled poison kryphein(sp?) = dead tank, blazer on the other hand = dead assassin no matter what.

what people have to realize is that mosquitoes are allergic to fire! even BEFORE the new classes when the tank had the flame thrower, all the noobs would still try to get in close and kill tank and complain about how the FT was OP because they couldn’t kill a class they are never ment to 1v1 in the 1st place.