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> *Originally posted by **[konival](/forums/163/topics/312619?page=1#posts-6602084):***
> > *Originally posted by **[JuzzieJT](/forums/163/topics/312619?page=1#posts-6602034):***
> > > *Originally posted by **[konival](/forums/163/topics/312619?page=1#posts-6601799):***
> > >
> > > 1. RD is far from OP, in a high HP meta game, 50 melee is a joke. In most of my matches, RD has no other role than stalling.
> > >
> > > 2. +10 fortify on MC is retardedly strong, and should never be implemented.
> > Let me get this straight. 50 melee is a joke, but 10 fortify is retardedly strong? wat?
> I don´t normally quote newbies, since most of them, included you, dont have the knowledge or experience to talk about balancing at all.
I don’t normally quote jerks, since most of them, especially you, don’t have the knowledge to talk sense or actually bother to reply to the crux of the point. But as you can see I made an exception too.
If 50 melee is a ‘joke’ and counts for nothing in the meta, it stands to reason that the addition of 10 fortify is negligible in the face of your supposed ‘non-joke’ 80-100 melee attacks.
It doesn’t take a genius or a pro to see that your two points are wildly contradictory.
This topic still is fundamentally a False Dichotomy in that the entire premise is that by comparing 2 cards and proving 1 is weaker means the weaker one should be upgraded.
Proving that RD \> MC is a completely different discussion than whether or not MC should be upgraded. There is a reason the comparison is always MC vs RD and not MC vs Kuk or MC vs Calamity and the rest of the Epics. I still do not see valid reasons to Buff MC, all I mainly see is an analysis of RD vs MC.
The reasons I have heard for why MC should get the upgrade instead of RD being hit are:
1) RD owner might quit if it was dowgraded so that isn’t an option (unlikely many will quit because it goes from “Definitely the Best” to “One of the Best”)
2) MC “Deserves” to be equal strength to RD because it used to be (variety of issues with one- 1.Things Change
2. Boosting MC to RD level further hurts the other epics, do they “deserve” that)
3) Since MC is a commonly played card it should get boosted 1st among all epics to match RD (Kind of a Twisted Logic. Basically, since MC is already very good and used often it should be further boosted before the Lesser Epics. That is like a Teacher assigning a Tutor to help the A- Student before the D student o\_O
Jason you must go back and read my post where i compare it to every single card that is relevant. So I am using the entire game as comparison.
For those talking about kuk. kuk is a wing card that due to it’s flying can hold its own in the melee spot. At it’s current build, it is still one of the most versatile cards in the game.
This doesn’t need to be a pile on for every epic in the game. I thought we could use some sense about how cards stack up to each other. But people get so mad so quickly
During testing we got to see the order that the updates were applied to the game. Level 4/5 and crystal costs came first and then the 35% HP update.
On the surface this may not seem like an important difference but there are stealth (free) buffs that come along with this, especially when looking at Shield and Wall.
Only looking at level 5 Epics and taking average damage values, a built in 20 shield gets no free extra buff, but 30 shield gets an extra stealth buff for the card once the 35% HP increase is applied. Basically it allows the card to survive one extra (average) hit from another level 5 Epic than it did before the HP increase was added.
Don’t misunderstand me and think extra HP automatically means more hits, I am talking about the stealth buff involved with it, not the actual transparent buff.
It might have nothing to do with the discussion at hand, but I believe the stealth buff might be the reason that RD suddenly seems to outperform MC.
Bmuell, you partially missed the point. The comparison is not only epics with the shield ability (very small group) + Blue Dragon but epics as a total. I understand many people want to compare MC to the best epics in the game (for example, most commonly compared to RD) to try to show it not being strong but the fact remains as far as Epics go MC remains popular and pretty strong.
More importantly, what people are actually using. If MC is 1 of the top used Epics in the game already then the people are showing that it is fine as it is. Are people using Blue Pincers over MC for their melee? Are people using Calamity over MC for their melee?
A-/B+ Caliber epics Do not need upgrading just because something else is A/A+, especially while C/D caliber epics exist. If anything, you lower the A/A+
No, I get your point just fine. I want to make sure it is not singling out these two cards. I did compare both to all reasonable epics and other cards to come to my conclusion. Im not comparing kuk and squidiver to and MC or RD because they are not the same purpose. I compared MC to every card with shield. And compared RD to other flyers.
So Jason, what do you think needs to happen to the card set to be good for the whole?
> *Originally posted by **[bmuell01](/forums/163/topics/312619?page=2#posts-6603302):***
> Jason you must go back and read my post where i compare it to every single card that is relevant. So I am using the entire game as comparison.
> For those talking about kuk. kuk is a wing card that due to it’s flying can hold its own in the melee spot. At it’s current build, it is still one of the most versatile cards in the game.
> This doesn’t need to be a pile on for every epic in the game. I thought we could use some sense about how cards stack up to each other. But people get so mad so quickly
Kuk is a natural backrow with reach so it cannot make use of flying and extra HP as well as palabird. Putting Kuk in front row is a waste. I don’t see how it can hold it’s own in the melee spot with 40 damage, when you will be facing 20 / 30 shield tanks or 100+ HP tanks. Heck, it cannot even defeat the lapia healing.
To use kuk well you need to put a tank, 3 cost kuk and 3 cost MM or obsidian. THAT IS MORE THAN 6 CRYSTAL when you have many 2 cost epic, lets say both side have the same tank, for 6 cost you can put 2 more epics and gleaming or some other armor to outshine kuk by miles.
Honestly kuk is not effective at all naked.
Did you even use Kuk yourself? Did you even see the population that is using Kuk increasing or decreasing?