Nerf to Grim Reaper page 2

119 posts

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I really like the Unique Equips idea. Let people have to make some hard decisions between VE, Reaper, Channeling Crown, etc.

Games are the most interesting when there is a large amount of deck variety and tough decisions have to be made. It gets boring when every deck wants the same cards regardless of their decks color because certain cards are basically staples.

 
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OMG the option 1, I almost can see a 6cc RD skin Reeker~~~~~>_<!!!!!.

the option 2, RD+30armor, only over 60 melee can destroy it~~~~>_<!!!!!.

I think make it to be unique or remove fear or both, it should probably work the problem out. :P

Actually there is no need to change anything, cause every top decks still have the almost same combination in their deck. lol

 
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If making it unique, VE, reeker other OP stuff should be unique

 
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The reason I use GR is mainly to deal with flames and VE/invincibility. Reduce flame demo BS and how invincibility works and I honestly couldn’t care what happens to GR. Unique useable change has already squashed monster variety, so please introduce more silly “solutions” so we can all run the same deck.

 
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I really dun see y unique usable change will squash monster variety, it needs not to say this solution will make us all run the same deck

 
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Most people run Reaper for the Deathsrike, not the Fear. Bash, if you want a card to mainly deal with Flames and VE/Invinc then I recommend Fear cards such as Massive Anchor or Bone Helmet which both accomplish the moving them to backrow part and at a lower CC cost too.

Also, the Unique Useable change has forced more deck variety than before where everyone would just auto include Judge/Tear/M-80. I do not see how removing m-80 from many decks has reduced monster variety, care to elaborate? Making Reaper Unique for example would reduce the # of Fear cards people use (since most people rely on Reaper as their fear card) which would lower the amount of Eagle usage.

 
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Since I can’t edit my last post Forget the Massive Anchor suggestion but Bone Helmet is still valid, even though it is an uncommon and can be hard to draw. The point is, other 3CC Fear cards exist (or 2 CC in Helmet’s case), they are just less popular because they lack Deathstrike.

 
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The problem with changing GR is like Bash said… flame and VE get even more OP if you do.
If you take fear from GR, then you have to raise the cost of explode, make demo not stack, and nerf stun to 50%. May be a few other things… I’m sure nobody wants to make clam, flame, and VE stronger!
Maybe if you made it a 3cc use card that applies fear and deathstrike for 1 round only (no armor)… a slight nerf so it can’t last another round when combined with reach, flying, or fortify. It still can’t be unique though.

IMO the real problem is with courage and demoralize… there is way more demo available than courage. There’s no card with more than 30 courage, why have 60 demo? at least make it 30 demo and 30 discharge (1 round demo like charge) or something.
But don’t you dare nerf GR without nerfing flame.

…bone helmet… lol

 
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I agree wt msr6 said, ‘There’s no card with more than 30 courage, why have 60 demo?’. Discharge seems like a gd idea. Besides, make flame with 40 demo is already enough. This already makes it an excellent rare while sadistue with 40 more magic and 20 more hp makes it an excellent epic. There should be some ways of difference between rares and epics

Maybe bash has genius idea that he doesn’t want to share his ideal decks tackling this with others

 
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Anchor and Bone Helmet are really quite terrible. If there’s a fear equip that’s valid, it’s Demon Armor, albeit in very restricted colours. 3 cost 50 armor is good armor stats, while Fear and Thrash have very nice combination. Demon Armor “solves” Clam with roughly equal efficiency and solves VE even better than GR (being able to knock it off in the backrow) in this case. (But not Flame.)

Bash and msr are right in suggesting that Flame and perhaps even ZVoid are quite overboard on the Demo right now, so nerfing GR using the remove-fear method might require a nerf for Flame… which might in turn require a nerf for Glow5/invince… etc etc. Whole complicated chain of problems. The issue is a few ridiculous cards now. Yes nerfing GR will highlight the ridiculousness of those cards. Yes the meta will always have imba cards / comboes which need fixing or everyone-will-run-them, and when you fix one which was a counter to another you might have to fix the next one too. Shall we just sit around and not fix anything because the status quo is comfortable, then?

I disagree in that I don’t see how “[the suggested] solutions… [will cause us to] all run the same deck” is an outcome of the posited solutions. Because if you don’t do anything about GR in the current form and everyone agrees to keep GR in the current form without any changes… then it’s more likely that we will be running the same deck. If given the assurance that no nerfs are in order ahead, I daresay a significant number of people would go 3x GR.

Bash, re unique usables, was it really better back when nearly everyone who could had to run DT-M80-Judge and play with only 4 variable item slots, or is this just a case of “let’s go back to Egypt, it was better there?”

 
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It is amusing how people how people cannot even agree on abilities. There are many people who call Fear OP (it isn’t), yet Juzzie thinks a 2 CC Fear Card is terrible, which is comical. If you want to see a terrible card, look at Sticky Potion or Gladiator Plate, is your argument Juzzie that those cards are as good as Bone Helmet?

Fear on GR makes the card weaker, removing the Fear gives us an even stronger card where you are literally forced to armor your tank every single turn, sounds like some exciting gameplay if we follow the remove Fear suggestion.

The Obvious fix to Grim Reaper to is leave it as it is and to just make it Unique. The only people against this that I can see are Green Decks and people who have already bought multiple (green decks often)


As for Demo, Demo is not too high. Right now, someone can drop a 70 melee, 3 CC Musc + 3 CC Tank and literally blow away your melee, at least with a Flame you have a chance to slow down the OP Musc once it is on the field so your melee can survive a little while.

Not sure how Sadi and Flame are overpowering by any means. Sadi is 70 HP and dies quickly if not armored. Flame has even lower HP and can be countered by Dye, Chance, Fear, Strike, Doom, Backstab, etc

If people are choosing to spam their deck with Invinc and whatever cards instead of cards to deal demo or whatever else hurts their deck then that is their own prob for not including card to cover that weakness.

The game has tradeoffs, you can either choose equips/armors that are more likely to be useful every fight that leave you vulnerable to certain strategies if your opponent uses them OR you can try covering your weaknesses which could put you at a disadvantage if your opponent doesn’t play those cards. Those tradeoffs are part of what makes the meta interesting and unpredictable.

 
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Originally posted by JasonJ29:

It is amusing how people how people cannot even agree on abilities. There are many people who call Fear OP (it isn’t), yet Juzzie thinks a 2 CC Fear Card is terrible, which is comical. If you want to see a terrible card, look at Sticky Potion or Gladiator Plate, is your argument Juzzie that those cards are as good as Bone Helmet?

o.O

What kind of a fallacious argument is this? All because there are cards worse than Bone Helmet doesn’t suddenly make it not-terrible. There are a whole bunch of terrible cards which aren’t anywhere close to being as bad as Sticky Pot or Gladiator Plate, you’re still not going to see them in top decks.

 
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Obviously you do not know what makes a card terrible. 2CC for 1 of the better abilities in the game is by no means terrible. Just because a card is not used by “top Decks” does not make it terrible. Heck, Bone Helmet is easily better than 50% of the cards in the game and is quite possibly 1 of the Top 10 Uncommon Equips in the game.

 
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You do realise the context here is that you’re indirectly suggesting that Bone Helmet or Anchor will suffice as an alternative should fear be removed from Grim Reaper, right? Have you actually stopped and thought through how ridiculously vast that gap is? GR is a top deck equip, any alternatives suggested must be capable of competing at that level.

I think I’ve finally figured out why a handful of my mates on this game detest it when you turn up in their threads. If you wish to repeatedly bring up incongruous “examples” and drag multiple threads OOT simply for the sake of arguing, then I shall not further waste my time by considering your posts at all.

 
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Well this thread has unraveled… (see what i did there??)

 
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Jason, please don’t take offense, but you lack the experience of building a competitive dragon live deck and it really shows in your posts.
…and what is with the green deck GR thing? Just because I was one of the first to run multiple GRs? GR is 3cc in any color… how does green have any advantage? Surely zanta’s 30 fortify isn’t enough to warrant an advantage.
I mean, green was weak before I started crushing dragon live with it… now it has some strange advantage with GR.
I just like to be unique and not run around with RD like everyone else… you nerfed my snail, my judgement, and now you want to nerf my GR! I better take the invincibility out of my deck quick! Why don’t you nerf RD instead? What good is a strategy game that nerfs every strategy you come up with and forces everyone toward the same card you are trying to defeat!

 
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@msr6: Seemingly, players always follow their competitor, especially the most efficient ones. While the top decks use RD. Many players would like to get an RD, though, are totally lack of individuality and creativity to build decks.

 
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LOL MSR6, nice Ad Hominem while also complimenting yourself for some unknown reason. Feel Free to name 10 better Uncommon Equips if you think Bone Helmet is not a Top 10 Uncommon Equips. Also feel free to show where I told people to use Bone Helmet in Dragon.

Green was not “weak” before you started using it. Most people just don’t have multiple Lvl 5 Kuks + Lvl 5 Glowrillas (a card people have quit over trying to draw before). Additionally, since most people LVL an RD if they get 1 for swarms, it is most efficient for most non super $$ spenders to focus on the RD to build their deck around since it takes them so long to get it to lvl 5.

What a surprise, someone who runs Green trying to defend why GR shouldn’t be made Unique. Pretty hilarious that you mention Zantas Fortify and Completely Ignore Zanta’s Cleave. Do you really think his Fortify combos better with GR than does his Cleave or did you just forget about 1 of his abilities? O_o

Since you mention it, Invincibility also does probably need a nerf too. From what I see, you like to play multiples of cards that are likely too good (Grim Reaper, Invinc) and then get upset when they are nerfed to be balanced better. (No Offense).

 
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Originally posted by msr6:

Jason, please don’t take offense, but you lack the experience of building a competitive dragon live deck and it really shows in your posts.

 
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MSR6, Please don’t take Offense but you have no idea what you are talking about. Still waiting for you to list 10 Uncommon Equips better than the “Terrible” Bone Helmet

 
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Sorry, kevinke6. Back to the subject while I bite my tongue:

Originally posted by kevinke6:

Recently, Grim Reaper has risen to power. Easily accessible by almost any moderate player for a simple 250 collection, it can be seen in many different decks. Here, I have a proposal to nerf it, while still allowing it to retain its power.

First of all, I do not agree with the idea of making Grim Reaper unique. Many people, including myself, have spent an extra 70k gold on multiples, simply due to its sheer power.

After analyzing the many complaints regarding this card, I have come up with the simple fact, that people are complaining about Grim Reaper because it has fear! I see it everywhere-not enough courage to counter the large amount of fear from GR. By removing fear, Grim Reaper’s power is significantly reduced. I believe that a (fearless) Grim Reaper will not need to be unique, as now you no longer need to have courage in every deck to counter fear.

After removing fear, I think Grim Reaper should get another ability on it, not too strong, but acceptable in certain situations. Here are my suggestions:

1. Remove Grim Reaper’s armor and drop it to 2 cost
2. Buff Grim Reaper to possibly 30 armor and leave it at 3 cost
3. Give it some kind of weakish skill and leave it at 10 armor, such as aggression, 20 courage, 20 demo, or even cautious or entangle. None would be as powerful as fear.

I personally think suggestion 1 would be the best choice overall, no need for complications or possibly making it overpowered. Remove fear/armor, drop down to 2 cost, no unique, problem solved.

Thoughts and comments?

 
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I’m going to go a little bit into story time here. I like to build efficient decks with the ability to beat a wide variety of decks. Where each card can perform multiple actions in multiple scenarios. Before Exp3 came out I was hoping to finish building a high melee/reach red deck with a side of flying and magic. Along came L5 caps, higher hitpoints and the fucking insane flame card. Instead of a 10 hp card that got wiped with bombs or M-80, it now had a whopping 60 demo, 50 hp, stealth and crystal for only 3 cost. It was a card that everyone could carry in their deck to completely shut down any melee/reach deck, still see use vs other decks as over half the monsters in this game use melee, and even if it wasn’t played you could just sac it for the crystals. It is low potential loss vs high potential gain, it’s no wonder almost every competitive deck has one or more. If I wanted to make a strong deck to match the new changes I needed to be able to deal with flames in some fashion. I decided on a Green/purple HP/melee/reach deck. The most reasonable ways I could come up with to kill flame was with paint/range or fear. The only good fear item in my opinion is GR. It allows my purple monsters to take a hit if need be, move troublesome back-rows to the front, troublesome tanks to the back, limiting the downside of my lack of backrow damage, deathstrike is also a nice ability to have vs high Hp/shielded targets. These are the side reasons it made it into my deck, the main one is the combo of musc + GR. It costs 6 crystals making it within a good crystal range(turn+sac generating 6). At 70 base melee, musc is able to retain 10 melee versus flame, which is enough to activate Deathstrike. In order to have a good chance of having the card when you need it, I have 2 of both in my deck. I don’t see any way you could change GR without crippling my deck by making it unable to counter flames effectively.

 
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Wait til we start a nerf flame thread… hahaha no reason any card should have more than 40 demo. its crazy town.

 
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As to Juzzie, the game was more varied before. Each one of those cards opened up variety by having them in your deck. Every deck needs a certain level of flexibility or you will fail at the top level. DT was the equivalent of trading an item cards for a monster card, practically giving players the ability to add another monster into their deck rather than a sac. More monster space, more variety. M-80 allows you to deal with those 50 armour equips you could only do away with otherwise by brute force. Playing armours is primarily defensive; more aggressive options means more variety of responses. Imagine a combo you can’t beat without losing too much for; Maybe it’s MC+LH, RD+BB, Void+Sorrow, whatever it is, you are locked down and can’t form a good response. You either make a deck like everyone else(some RD or MC base with lots of armours) and respond by mirroring the move or use this magical card judgement to remove the threat, allowing you the ability to respond to a combo once a battle. With at least 1 good response to most situations you can make a more polarized deck, as your risks are lowered. It might just be me, but I haven’t seen a single new deck idea since exp4 and the game seems duller.

 
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Originally posted by JasonJ29:

Pretty hilarious that you mention Zantas Fortify and Completely Ignore Zanta&#8217;s Cleave. Do you really think his Fortify combos better with GR than does his Cleave or did you just forget about 1 of his abilities? O_o

Sorry msr6 but this is great point and he is 100% right … analyzing this two cards you didn’t even mention about impact of cleave ? And in the same time you point another player luck of experience with building decks ? so hypocrisy…