Extreme levels guide

After playing for a while, theres nothing to do. Right now my only goal is to reach high levels (1million+). Currently level 16,597 Lucius (gear tier 7,000+)

Here’s a guide on how to get started:

1: Level any cleric character to about 20. Save ALL the money you can, and buy 3 – 5 spirit guides. Buy as much gear as you can that has retaliation damage, around the 150 mark is ideal to start.

These 3 bits of gear are really good: Barbed Brutaliser (weapon), Doomwarden (offhand, heavy shield) and Equinox Robes (robes, chest).

2. Use spirit guides on the retaliation gear. Put all the gear in a bag and reset your characters to level 1.

3. Equip the spirit guided gear to level 1 Lucius when your in the character selection screen. While your there, give Lucius 1 trollsblood potion and 1 +30% damage protection potion. In act IV, put something on the spacebar and start to farm the waves. You need to reach wave 400ish with Lucius alone, and you will get to about lvl 150. If you dont make it that far the first time thats ok, just buy higher tier gear and reset characters again.

4. After the 400 waves, retreat. Sell all gear from dimensional pockets. You now need to find heavy gear for Lucius to wear: boots, shoulders, helmet, hands and legs. These 5 can be blue (rare) and have great defense/retaliation. 3 epic items are the ones I mentioned earlier (weapon, shield and chest), replace them. You can find 1 cloak that has retaliation damage, and you should use Martyr’s Signet (ring) for extra health regeneration.

If you run out of cash, put spirit guides on the gear you found and do the same thing again.

5. Now you should have 1 cleric at level 145 – 150. Use a 2 man party, the other cleric is best. Farm act IV again and if you can leave it on over night (or while your at work/school). I did 1,100 waves this time, if you can find the time to leave the computer on (it took roughly 8 hours) do it and the other cleric will be about lvl 1850.

6. Go into act I with just the lvl 1800+ character. Sell gear from dimensional pockets and get the same retaliation gear as before, (this time the tier should be like 600+) and use spirit guides on them.

7. Farm act IV again the gear on Lucius and using both clerics, Martyr’s Signet is needed now because level 150 Lucius will be fighting level 1000+ monsters by himself. You should have no problems using the lvl 1800+ gear. Defeat about 1,000 waves again and the other cleric will be lvl 16,000+.

8. Continue this process, im currently doing the next step with my lvl 1800 and lvl 16000 clerics. After 1,000 waves I should be like lvl 300,000+.

This is just the way I started it. If you have better/faster ways please reply :)

I am very certain the developer intended for this to happen.

8. Continue this process, im currently doing the next step with my lvl 1800 and lvl 16000 clerics. After 1,000 waves I should be like lvl 300,000+.

I tried something similar (lvl 1200ish and 8500ish clerics) and after 500 or so waves attempted to retreat so I could level and the game crashed. You start running into numbers that are so large that the game can’t handle them. If you do actually manage to successfully gain the levels would like to know however.

Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

I am very certain the developer intended for this to happen.

I’m very certain of the opposite. Unless there was supposed to be sarcasm in your post (hard to tell on the Web).

It was sarcasm. I admit the sarcasm in itself wasn’t obvious, but the issue described here (come on, getting a character to level 300k?) obviously completely removes any feasibility of it ever being intended. One reason being that you can beat the game with a fairly low-levelled team (relatively), and two being that this can be achieved by leaving the PC on at night letting a rock hold down a button.

Any way, not sure why I’m explaining this to you, since you already know what I mean. Short story: It was sarcasm.

Yea, Act 4 definitely needs ‘immune to retaliation damage’ + ‘armor piercing’ boss at wave 29\30.

Well, Im guessing its not the level itself thats causing an overflow as an int in AS3 can go up to 2 billion… though, perhaps the amount of xp is ;)

Originally posted by 1234qwerty4321:Unless there was supposed to be sarcasm in your post

You actually had to ask? XD

Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

It was sarcasm. I admit the sarcasm in itself wasn’t obvious, but the issue described here (come on, getting a character to level 300k?) obviously completely removes any feasibility of it ever being intended. One reason being that you can beat the game with a fairly low-levelled team (relatively),

I think it is possible to beat the game with all your characters being at level one. In fact, I think it’s even possible to beat it without any of your characters having ever left level one.

I’m not positive though. I’d have to check to see if any of the boss battles give enough experience to force a party with 0 experience to level. If so, you may have to reach something like level four to beat the game.

I wasn’t naive about the Spirit Guide, I knew that would wreck the game balance for those who wanted to (ab)use it. I decided to let players have that option.

The retaliation builds on the other hand are clearly much stronger than I anticipated. I should have done more to counter that with enemy design.

Just did 1670 waves with my lvl 1800 stall and lvl 16000 lucius. Tried to retreat, the exp page showed up then froze. The game then went back to the battle screen with both my clerics invisible (when I hold ctrl down, yellow light shows where my characters are). It does nothing at the battle page, I cant skip turns or have any sort of action available.

And lvl 1800 stall went to lvl 36,998

I had to refresh the page but it did not save, so stall is lvl 1800 again.
I’ll try again, just did 20 waves with Lucius (lv 16k) and lvl 1 warrior. The warrior went to lvl 2,800 from just 20 waves. I will do 250 waves and hope for lvl 30kish. If it works, ill do it with another lvl 1 for 300 waves.. etc until it freezes.

Finished the 250 waves with lvl 16,597 Lucius and level 1 Croca (warrior).
Results:

I’ll try 20 waves with lvl 36k Croca and a lvl 1 character, see what level that gives. Then ill do 200 waves doing the same thing. May have to reset characters soon lol only have a few more to test things on..

-edit 54 waves done with lvl 36,000 Croca and lvl 1Rodrick. Rodrick gained 18,620 levels.. that is INSANE lol its like 345 levels per wave.

Wall o’ text incoming, just a fair warning.

The levels (more exactly xp/wave) you gain per wave is based on the level difference between the low-level character and the monsters. The greater the difference, the more xp/wave. Using a lvl 8074 and a lvl 59 character (“received wisdom” ring on lvl 59 for 20% xp bonus) yields monsters of lvl 4067. (8074+59)/2 = 4066.5, round up to 4067

After defeating 1 wave and then retreating the lvl 59 character gained 60752 xp, or 60752/1150 = 52.8 (approximate) levels. So roughly 53 lvls/wave. However this does not take into account a couple of things. First, the number and type of monsters per wave is not constant, so the level gain per wave will be different for different waves. Second, the monsters continue to level as the number of waves increases. These factors lead to slightly greater xp gains/wave.

From your run we have a lvl 16597 and a lvl 1 character which yield monsters of initial lvl (16597+1)/2 = 8299, making the initial level difference between the low-level character and the monsters 8298. (without the xp ring?) this yielded an average gain of 345 lvls/wave.

So we have the following rough data:
Initial lvl diff of 4008 = 53 lvls/wave (using xp ring)
Initial lvl diff of 8298 = 345 lvls/wave (using xp ring???)

So we can see that the xp/wave does not scale at a constant growth rate. This is why it is possible to achieve such high levels. Figuring out the exact equation that determines the xp bonus for killing higher-leveled monsters will be more difficult to figure out (need cleaner data + more data points) but I’d guess it looks something like this:
earned xp = (base xp)*(lvl_difference * X + 1)
“X” is some constant between zero and one, probably around 0.1

other shit
1) Are you approaching 2 billion gold? If so I’m curious about what happens when you exceed 2^31 (about 2.2 billion) gold. Backup your save file before trying this though. If you can store more than 2^31 gold then see what happens when you pass 2^32 gold (roughly 4.3 billion).

2) You won’t be able to achieve a 2^31 or 2^32 level because your character will encounter problems with overflowing numbers before then, say from armor, health etc.

First run I gained 146 levels per wave (36,733/251) with exp ring

Second run (using lvl 36,733 and lvl 1) I gained 345 levels per wave (18,620/54) without exp ring (i forgot to equip it)

For the second run, the initial level difference between the low-level character and the monsters is 18,366.

You should make a new thread to figure it out :) ill happily contribute data, resetting characters when needed.

You should make a new thread to figure it out :) ill happily contribute data, resetting characters when needed.

Maybe in the future, right now I’m trying to determine equations for base damage of different weapon types (see http://monstersdenchronicles.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons ). Also this will be harder to determine then weapon damage equations because of some of the factors that I previously mentioned (non-constant xp/wave, non-constant monster lvls, possibly different xp for different monster types).

Originally posted by 1234qwerty4321:

Maybe in the future, right now I’m trying to determine equations for base damage of different weapon types (see http://monstersdenchronicles.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons ).

I had a bunch of of those equations figured out, but I lost the file with them listed. They wouldn’t be hard to figure out really, but some of the equations have weird values, like damage increasing by 5.125 per tier. Because of that, you can wind up using five Apex Forges, thinking you have the right equation, then later come up with wrong values.

Originally posted by garin:

The retaliation builds on the other hand are clearly much stronger than I anticipated. I should have done more to counter that with enemy design.

The simple fix is to not let retal damage work on ranged attacks.. doesn’t even make logical sense anyway. If i’m shooting a spiked monster with an arrow, how in the world am I getting damaged from that shot? Sure you can argue that its counterattacking, but that argument breaks down if i’m also hiding behind a champion who is using shield wall (meaning the monster should only be able to hit the champion)

a lot of the equipment that gives retal damage is also giving it just because its spiked or thorny too, which shouldn’t damage ranged attackers at all. the only retal damage that makes sense would be of the magical sort. But in that case, there are monsters with high magic resists so that would balance it.

Originally posted by zz1000zz:

I had a bunch of of those equations figured out, but I lost the file with them listed. They wouldn’t be hard to figure out really, but some of the equations have weird values, like damage increasing by 5.125 per tier. Because of that, you can wind up using five Apex Forges, thinking you have the right equation, then later come up with wrong values.

Yup. Usually try to use consecutive data points that are low level (say around tier 10) and consecutive data points that are high level (say 1000+ tier) when trying to confirm an equation. Though it’s really annoying when you have something like this happen for high tiers (equation for staffs):

base damage ?= 6*tier + 14 (this is slightly off, tier 2692 damage is off by 1 :/)

If you do know/figure out some of the equations feel free to post them on the wiki.

Originally posted by 1234qwerty4321:

Yup. Usually try to use consecutive data points that are low level (say around tier 10) and consecutive data points that are high level (say 1000+ tier) when trying to confirm an equation. Though it’s really annoying when you have something like this happen for high tiers (equation for staffs):

base damage ?= 6*tier + 14 (this is slightly off, tier 2692 damage is off by 1 :/)

If you do know/figure out some of the equations feel free to post them on the wiki.

I’ve never been much of a fan for modifying wikis; there’s too much tedium involved. Still, I guess I ought to do it.

Originally posted by RedeemedWahrior:

Originally posted by garin:

The retaliation builds on the other hand are clearly much stronger than I anticipated. I should have done more to counter that with enemy design.

The simple fix is to not let retal damage work on ranged attacks.. doesn’t even make logical sense anyway. If i’m shooting a spiked monster with an arrow, how in the world am I getting damaged from that shot? Sure you can argue that its counterattacking, but that argument breaks down if i’m also hiding behind a champion who is using shield wall (meaning the monster should only be able to hit the champion)

a lot of the equipment that gives retal damage is also giving it just because its spiked or thorny too, which shouldn’t damage ranged attackers at all. the only retal damage that makes sense would be of the magical sort. But in that case, there are monsters with high magic resists so that would balance it.

The simple fix would be to just do away with the Spirit Guide.

You could do away with it but that kind of takes away from the game. It’s not like this is even a glitch or a cheat or anything. It’s simply making the best use of items given and information. I went through all 5 acts with a basic team (no OMA or huge stats) and it was fun. got to lvl 117 on act 4 with just simply playing the game like I normally would. Im now kind of looking forward to seeing what kind of people you could do this with. Would it work the same using a Rogue as the main damage? Can a mage team last long enough to make it to say lvl 200?

Doing away with Spirit Guide would limit the game and Ive always found these games fun because, apart from gear reqs and basic game logic, there are no limits to what you can do.

I don’t actually care if they dev does away with it or not. I was simply pointing out the easiest way of doing so.

Originally posted by jim_vierling:

I don’t actually care if they dev does away with it or not. I was simply pointing out the easiest way of doing so.

The problem is your “fix” wouldn’t fix things. You can do Act IV with Retaliation Damage without using Spirit Guides. Spark of Legends will work just fine. That means all your solution would do is make it take more effort to get to an overpowered setup.

Trying the guide, but possessor always ruins the thinks at wave 30,50… Mental Control makes Lucius attack himself, and the retalliation damage always kill him, is there a way to evade mental control? Benediction don’t block this.

Never had this happen. Mental status has always been blocked for me. Working on wave 890 right now with a lvl 1. 590 retaliation damage, 90 regen. almost lost a couple times. Have had the window up for close to 2 days lol.

Sorry 950 retaliation damage. switched um.