Kongai. Luck. Mix those two words and you have an argument.

What I was after is a single thread with all the arguments as to why Kongai is ‘entirely on luck and guesswork’ or otherwise. This way a coherent argument can be had rather than a thousand hate comments and flame wars on the kongai comments box.

In my opinion kongai is very much a prediction game. Prediction is a skill, and seperate from luck unless your oponent deliberatly does random things and nothing else. The luck as I see it is when two 94% hit moves miss. In a row. Out of two attempts.

However I don’t think the luck kills the game. It was pointed out to me that the feeling of having won a game that you shouldn’t is much greater than the sudden annoance at losing one which you should have won. And in my view it does average out and enhance the game so if two people decide to play a perfect mirror one will win as a pose to a draw all the time.

What think the patrons of kongregate?

Newcreation, i always played perfect games, but i lost half the time:(

If that’s not caused by luck, then what is?

I also don’t agree luck kills the game. It’s obviously very appealing to those of you who like luck-based games:-P

Care to define perfect games? I admit I am no expert, having played less than 200 games but the value of your statement depends very much on you definition of perfect surly? If you mean you did the ‘correct’ thing every turn (by which I mean the thing that is most likley to put you in the best position) then that could be your undoing? I hasten to add I’m not trying to insult you, just know exactly what you mean.

And the luck has annoyed me in the past, and I prefer less of it as a general rule.

Wow, someone here who agress i’m telling the truth:) Shame the person also appears to be a spammer, but i’ll let that go.

Clearly if someone plays perfectly, but only wins half their games, all the games are being decided by a 50/50 coin toss.

That’s irrefutable. That’s fact. Argument over. Kongai is based on Luck.

Lol, people who claim Kongai is all luck or all skill are delusional.

Your hit percentages, chance for special effects, that is luck.

Predicting your opponent, the items you equip, the characters you use, which attack you use every turn, when to rest/intercept/switch, that all requires skill to decide.

Hence, Kongai is a skill based game with luck based elements. A fine game all around.

As for perfect games, there are no such thing. A ‘perfect’ strategy can still be countered, because you can never account for every single possibility.

Now I’ll keep an eye on this thread and wait for the flamers to rant and rave and generally make arses of themselves.

Oh, just to note, I wasn’t calling any previous posters flamers. sorry bout the double post.

Got to love the self-denial – “I am so awesome at everything, but I only win half the time, must be all luck!”

If you literally played perfectly, you’d win something around 90% of the games you played. The breakdown is something like 20% luck, 20% medium-heavy chaos, 60% skill. Luck is defined as random factors = chances for stuns, crits, misses, etc. Chaos is where it really is impossible to tell what someone is gong to do in some cases. Playing perfectly means bypassing all chaos completely because you always know exactly what they will do, and it means overall you’d be negatively affected by luck half the time. Of course, it is impossible to play perfectly.

I think the most obvious proof that clearly shows skill is dominant is the fact that good players consistently do well. Furthermore, if you look at how the rank system works, and you look at ShadowInfinity’s rank, you know that he has to win 3 games for every 1 he loses just to stay even at that point – a 75% win rate. Pretty self explanatory that skill is the dominant factor honestly.

(To be fair, when I first played Kongai I thought luck was the dominant factor as well – and more importantly, that the skill was simplistic and obvious. When I later tried again – for more than just a couple games – I realized I was clearly mistaken.)

Ah, Twinge the oracle of knowledge and wisdon has arrived!

I also played perfectly, but lost more than i won. Explain that clever clogs!

We all know the explanation, it’s because luck is the key factor, and if your unlucky (like me) you will always lose more.

Honestly, still not sure if disco is just trolling it up or if his ego is actually so seriously distorted that he cannot possibly admit that he is bad at something.

No, if you know when to intercept, how to read your opponent, or even how to put items and characters together intelligently, you will improve your playing style. However, you must not do this.

Also, saying you play perfectly just shows how very ignorant you are. There is no such thing as a perfect game, and only idiots believe there is.

No twinge, i am not trolling it up and my ego is not distorted. I’m just stating the true facts.

And how can ’i’m always right’ twinge ever criticise someones ego? Checked your own recently?

Originally posted by discoagogo:

No twinge, i am not trolling it up and my ego is not distorted. I’m just stating the true facts.

And how can ’i’m always right’ twinge ever criticise someones ego? Checked your own recently?

Funny, cause the facts say ur wrong, and you are trying to dig yourself out of a pit by trying to discredit others. Honestly, just stop now, you’re not making things better for yourself.

The facts say i’m wrong? Where are these facts??? I haven’t seen them. I think these ‘facts’ may actually be lies made up by you and other kongai worshippers to try and pretend it’s skill orientated.

All i see is games being decided by luck. FACT.

Man, the title turned right into a self-fulfilling prophecy :P

Originally posted by discoagogo:

The facts say i’m wrong? Where are these facts??? I haven’t seen them. I think these ‘facts’ may actually be lies made up by you and other kongai worshippers to try and pretend it’s skill orientated.

All i see is games being decided by luck. FACT.

If that’s all you see then you must be blind ;)

Originally posted by discoagogo:

Wow, someone here who agress i’m telling the truth:) Shame the person also appears to be a spammer, but i’ll let that go.

Clearly if someone plays perfectly, but only wins half their games, all the games are being decided by a 50/50 coin toss.

That’s irrefutable. That’s fact. Argument over. Kongai is based on Luck.

First of all, you’re making a really bad assumption – that this person is actually playing perfectly JUST BECAUSE HE SAYS HE DID. I consistently win against people under rank 30 and i’m pretty sure everybody in the top 100 can do this too (except the haxxorz). All those wins must be decided on a 50/50 cointoss, right?

Originally posted by discoagogo:

Ah, Twinge the oracle of knowledge and wisdon has arrived!

I also played perfectly, but lost more than i won. Explain that clever clogs!

We all know the explanation, it’s because luck is the key factor, and if your unlucky (like me) you will always lose more.

This post summarized: “zomg, i suxx but i don’t want to admit it. let’s blame the game guise!”

Originally posted by discoagogo:

No twinge, i am not trolling it up and my ego is not distorted. I’m just stating the true facts.

And how can ’i’m always right’ twinge ever criticise someones ego? Checked your own recently?

Yet again, a “zomg the game sux because i sux” post. Also, just because twinge posts a lot doesn’t mean he’s got an ego. IMO people who make the posts that twinge make are trying to be helpful, and not wave their artificially gigantic e-penis at other people. Besides, people actually get something out of twinge’s posts, unlike yours, which are only backed up by 2 people who think they’ve got skills.

Originally posted by discoagogo:

The facts say i’m wrong? Where are these facts??? I haven’t seen them. I think these ‘facts’ may actually be lies made up by you and other kongai worshippers to try and pretend it’s skill orientated.

All i see is games being decided by luck. FACT.

Out of all the games I have uploaded to youtube in the past, only 2 were completely decided by luck (vs garcia1000 and vs mrchook). The rest were all based on both player’s decisions and how good they were.

“Your facts aren’t facts! This is a fact! What you say is a ‘fact,’ what I say is a FACT! FACT FACT FACT FACT”

Play someone with a skill rank over 30 and see how many times you win. If what you say is true, you should be able to take half of the games. I bet you don’t.

By the way, your entire argument hinges on the idea that “you played perfectly”. You didn’t. Hope that helps. Good luck with that ego.

How do you know i didn’t play perfectly? Did you see my games? No! You don’t have a clue what your talking about.

And do you think spamming the word FACT several times means what you say must be true? Grow up you plank.

How do you know i didn’t play perfectly? Did you see my games? No! You don’t have a clue what your talking about.

How do you know you played perfectly? Maybe we don’t know, but I can assure you that even the top ranked guys don’t play perfectly, so chances are someone who loses a lot doesn’t play even close to perfectly. Where’s your proof that you play perfectly?

You’re obviously beyond comprehending that the part in quotation is mocking you; you effectively just owned yourself, since you’re the one going on and on about facts despite not having any substance to your claims. Nobody plays perfectly, even people who have 3:1 win records or higher. Since you are crying about not even being able to better than 1:1, I made an educated guess. You don’t know much about those.

“if your unlucky (like me) you will always lose more”

Can you figure out what’s wrong with this statement? Take your time, I know you’re slow.

Originally posted by discoagogo:

How do you know i didn’t play perfectly? Did you see my games? No! You don’t have a clue what your talking about.

And do you think spamming the word FACT several times means what you say must be true? Grow up you plank.

If you’re playing “perfect” and still need luck to win HALF of your games, your tactics probably suck.

One example: With a good deck, your could play thousands of matches in single player mode, and win a vast majority.

In this case, the small percentage of kongbots victories is nothing but luck. If you’re playing against low ranking players, you’ll still win a lot, but not as easy as defeating the kongbot. And the percentage will decrease when playing against skilled players.
_______________________________________
Due to your argument, the luck factor would increase when you’re playing against high ranks.
This will not happen. Your logic fails.

Therefore, you should consider the chance you might be not as awesome as you thought ;-)

Rolazu, there’s no suck thing as a skilled or unskilled player on kongai. Everything is decided by luck.

Why don’t you have a game of snakes and ladders? It’s also a luck-based game, and it would mean i wouldn’t have to put up with your nonsense.

trolls, this thread…shake it baby

A luckbased game with skill :)

http://www.kongregate.com/forums/18-kongai/topics/58604-is-kongai-begining-to-be-a-guessing-game This might get you more of an idea.