Andromeda: Far range specialist?

I would like to talk a bit about the “far range specialist” of the game: Andromeda.

All her attacks are far range, ok; this means that she should be brutal at far range, just like Ashi or Onimaru are at close range, or even Helene (If she doesn’t fail, as usual XD). But I feel that this is not true. I mean, she can get far range comfortably with her innate, and she can trick and deal chip damage with Lightning Arrow and Crippling Shot. But how about dealing REAL damage?

Rain of Arrows is the slowest of the “hits fleeing” attacks, and has a low hit chance (shut up, Popo, we know what you think); even more, it deals 35 damage at 3 speed, for 35 energy! If you compare it to the other “hits fleeing” attacks, it is the worse with difference.

And about Trueshon … hell, 50 energy for 40 damage at speed 2??? I’m tired of seeing how Andromeda dies at far range aganist supposed all-rounders like Higashi, Anex, Cain Solomon, Juju, etc just because their strong attacks are 3 or 4 speed.

Shouldn’t Andromeda be in advantage almost-allways at far range?

What do you guys think?

I agree with the above, for a card that exclusively works at far-range, Andromeda is very, very underpowered.

Andromeda is great vs many characters. She can take out characters with low physical resist in just 2 turns (jj,ubie,vv,yoshi even amaya). Switching her in against any of those top tier characters will put your opponent in a bad position. Also all the amazon items except for the breastplate work well on her and offer multiple playing styles for her.
For example valk charm brings her RoA at speed 5 equaling higashi’s and cain’s attacks and surpassing jj’s hex.
So i’d be more inclined to say that andromeda is a difficult character to play with but she is certainly not underpowered imo.

Originally posted by Power_Puff_Girl:

Andromeda is great vs many characters. She can take out characters with low physical resist in just 2 turns (jj,ubie,vv,yoshi even amaya). Switching her in against any of those top tier characters will put your opponent in a bad position.

You forgot something.

It is called the move close button!

Also ubu can just sit at far and SA and tie.

A good item for Andromeda is the Stoneheel Totem, enhancing the effect of her innate ability by increasing her opponent’s energy cost to change range.

Are you kidding me? Andromeda is a wonderful character. Her main purpose is energy drain. If you are getting smoked by any character at long range who uses light attacks then you are using her incorrectly. I get more intercept damage with her than any other character. It is all about patience with her. Never start with her and switch her in when the opponent has used some energy.

Er… long range light moves: Chi blast (lol), Rapid lashes, Healing touch, Enchant blade (and Boomerang chakra), True shot, Ancestral spirit… that’s all i think.. so that makes 7 interruptable moves, and 3 is non-damaging, 1 is on condition and most probably you can;t interrupt a Chi Blast (Reflect or Dashing instead)

So that makes the interrupt part worthless… it’s just the 0E/18Dmg that is usefull

Still, i prefer Pheobe @ stone, since she can 1-hit 55% an enemy slower than her with Power lash (stun or crit) and she can also defend herself on near

Ray of light & Radiance burst. Also, Chi blast comes from 2 characters.
Personally I don’t think Andromeda’s that horrible, but just very boring to use, because her damage sucks. As someone said, you should use her to drain energy from the opponent.

I think, she is not meant to be brutal like Ashi and Onimaru who have great attacks but struggle to keep the range close but is supposed to be easier to control the range with worse attacks.

Her innate and decent 0 energy attack make her fairly good for range dancing but she seems to get destroyed but other long range characters like anex and phobe. Which kinda makes her awful cause anex seems to be in almost half the decks once you start getting close to SR30.

I would consider her a weakish character, but not terrible like Helene.

Originally posted by Shadowinfinity:

Originally posted by Power_Puff_Girl:

Andromeda is great vs many characters. She can take out characters with low physical resist in just 2 turns (jj,ubie,vv,yoshi even amaya). Switching her in against any of those top tier characters will put your opponent in a bad position.

You forgot something.

It is called the move close button!

Also ubu can just sit at far and SA and tie.

Andro can go far and use RoA twice in a row. That means she will deal a good ammount of damage to any of the above mentioned characters no matter what you do (9 out of 10 times).

As for Andro vs Ubie – a tie seems like a very nice option for andro.

Anyway i’m not a fan of monorangers… i’m just saying that she is a decent character.

Originally posted by Power_Puff_Girl:

Andromeda is great vs many characters. She can take out characters with low physical resist in just 2 turns (jj,ubie,vv,yoshi even amaya). Switching her in against any of those top tier characters will put your opponent in a bad position. Also all the amazon items except for the breastplate work well on her and offer multiple playing styles for her.

For example valk charm brings her RoA at speed 5 equaling higashi’s and cain’s attacks and surpassing jj’s hex.

So i’d be more inclined to say that andromeda is a difficult character to play with but she is certainly not underpowered imo.

The thing is that, at close range Andro only can intercept, and at far range she must use tricks and guess when the opponent is gonna use his light magic attack, while other characters simply throw a brutal attack and win. I mean, let’s imagine that this matches begin at far range:

Andro vs Cain Solomon: Unless Cain fails his Rush of Bats, this game is for Cain.
Andro vs Juju: Hex, hex, hex … or Andro gets a crit from Trueshot, or bye bye Andro.
Andro vs Yoshi or Higashi: Throw a coin to decide if you use Lightning Arrow or not. If you lose the flip, you die.
Andro vs Ubuntu: Spirit Assintance, Spirit Assistance. Ubuntu will, in the worst case, draw, and with a bit of luck, win.
Andro vs Phoebe or Anex: Here you will see Andromeda move close XD

Please note that I only mentioned “all rounders”. And please note that, if Rain of Arrows were 4 speed and Trueshot were 3 speed, all these matches would change a lot.

Andro vs Juju: Hex, hex, hex … or Andro gets a crit from Trueshot, or bye bye Andro.

2x ROA. This is a 50/50 if he has a feather, but it’s better than 2xTrueshot hoping for a crit.

Andro vs Yoshi or Higashi: Throw a coin to decide if you use Lightning Arrow or not. If you lose the flip, you die.

Lies (at least for vs yoshiro). Chi Blast != Instakill. Vs yoshiro, just ignore the chi blast and do 2xRoA.

Andro vs Phoebe or Anex: Here you will see Andromeda move close XD

Only if the person playing andromeda was dropped on their head as a baby.

Please note that I only mentioned “all rounders”.

Phoebe, Anex, Ubuntu, and Yoshiro are not all-rounders.

And please note that, if Rain of Arrows were 4 speed and Trueshot were 3 speed, all these matches would change a lot.

… No.

Phoebe, Anex, Ubuntu, and Yoshiro are not all-rounders.

well they are, especially anex und ubuntu. they can attack in all ranges and can make things more difficult for enemies.

Originally posted by Kireia:

Phoebe, Anex, Ubuntu, and Yoshiro are not all-rounders.

well they are, especially anex und ubuntu. they can attack in all ranges and can make things more difficult for enemies.

So all but, what, 4 characters are all-rounders then? I consider an all-rounder someone that has close to the same effectiveness at both ranges. Yoshiro is not effective at far range. Phoebe is not effective at close range. Ubuntu and Anex have options at close, but they’re much better at long-range than at close.

I can’t think of one occasion where Andro > Pheobe

Pheobe @ Stone can stun (25%) or crit (34%- 1-hit KO) with Power lash. So she has a good chance to not even get damaged and kill a character… Or she can push far and Rapid lash to 2 hit all the vamps (Not VV..), amaya, popo, and probably Taf if you get 2 bleeds in

Andro @ Valk (or stone) must push far… then what? trueshot sucks, RoA dosen’t work except on the ones mentionned above, crippling shot will most likely not proc, so only lightnng arrow works… against CC what do you do?…

i can think of several times where andro is better than phoebe, like every TIME. pl is 65 energy, meaning she cant get far and threaten, and instead needs to land a hamstring to threaten or enter when foe cant range change.
Andromeda on the other hand has rain of arrows which 2 hits several top teir characters, yoshiro, VV, Juju, Ubu, etc. Her trueshot is situationally well, and has better management of range. Andromeda is hard to intercept as long as you dong let yourself have <45 energy when they switch. against CC, you wouldn’t want Andromeda, cause that is stupid playing. Phoebes 8×5 attack is light erngey and sucks against soo many character, andromeda can always at least choose between 2 elements when she enters, 50 for trueshot, or rain of arrows. Phoebe is often forced into using rapid lashes cauise anyone smart will get close and force phoebe to range change or intercept her if she does not.

Originally posted by EsIeX3:

Andro vs Juju: Hex, hex, hex … or Andro gets a crit from Trueshot, or bye bye Andro.

2x ROA. This is a 50/50 if he has a feather, but it’s better than 2xTrueshot hoping for a crit.

This is exactly about what I talk, the far range only girl has a 50/50 at far range vs a guy that can insta-kill (ok, in 4 turns XD) or make bleed any character in melee.

Andro vs Yoshi or Higashi: Throw a coin to decide if you use Lightning Arrow or not. If you lose the flip, you die.

Lies (at least for vs yoshiro). Chi Blast != Instakill. Vs yoshiro, just ignore the chi blast and do 2xRoA.

I meant that Yoshiro can do 2 chi-blast in a row. At least the most Yoshiros I see, with the Scroll.

Andro vs Phoebe or Anex: Here you will see Andromeda move close XD

Only if the person playing andromeda was dropped on their head as a baby.

It was just a joke, but it’s obvios what it means: Andromeda simply CAN’T win a battle aganist Phoebe or Anex (and before someone talks abour that 5% miss chance, let’s just ignore that for the sake of a structured debate, ok?). Marquis Le Morte has more chances vs Vanessa Voss than Andromeda has vs Phoebe or Anex.

Please note that I only mentioned “all rounders”.

Phoebe, Anex, Ubuntu, and Yoshiro are not all-rounders.

Any of them (except for Phoebe maybe) can kill any charater at any range.

And please note that, if Rain of Arrows were 4 speed and Trueshot were 3 speed, all these matches would change a lot.

… No.

Sorry man, but YES. With RoA 4 speed, you can tie Hex and outspeed Power Toss (if Anex is low in health this really makes a difference), and with the proper item you can outspeed most of the power moves and even tie Power Lash! And with Trueshot at speed 3 it could tie things like Rush of Bats or Power Toss (c’mon, right now it loses vs everything except for Leafy Trap and Spirit Assistance!), eliminating that sensation of “if I survive the hit I’m gonna eat, maybe I’ll do some damage” so common when you play with Andromeda.

add a 50% chance to interrupt to crippling shot and she’s fixed.

Most of the argumentation here presumes that andro’s opponent is at full health and energy and that andro will never switch (as long as your opponent doesnt have a hit fleeing attack you must take this into account).

Also, it’s worth mentioning that Andro is a pretty nasty opponent at far for higashi. He doesnt face a simple blast or intercept choice. He needs to take into account the lightning arrow. Instead of a 50 50 chance of dealing huge damage, he is facing a 1/3 chance.

Originally posted by LordCristian:

Most of the argumentation here presumes that andro’s opponent is at full health and energy and that andro will never switch (as long as your opponent doesnt have a hit fleeing attack you must take this into account).

Of course it’s supponsed that noone can flee and that everyone is at full health and energy. If you don’t supose all this things, the discussion becomes absolutely relative.

Originally posted by LordCristian:

Also, it’s worth mentioning that Andro is a pretty nasty opponent at far for higashi. He doesnt face a simple blast or intercept choice. He needs to take into account the lightning arrow. Instead of a 50 50 chance of dealing huge damage, he is facing a 1/3 chance.

Nope, he is facing a simple Chi Blast or Dashing Strike choice. It will take at least 2 attacks to kill Higashi (if you go for Trueshot and get a crit; if you don’t have luck, it is 3 attacks), and if you ever fail to predict when is he going to Blast you, you die. And this is for Higashi, a man that can move close without drawback for his offensive power XP

Originally posted by pchancete:

Originally posted by LordCristian:

Most of the argumentation here presumes that andro’s opponent is at full health and energy and that andro will never switch (as long as your opponent doesnt have a hit fleeing attack you must take this into account).

Of course it’s supponsed that noone can flee and that everyone is at full health and energy. If you don’t supose all this things, the discussion becomes absolutely relative.

is that so? then yoshi has really bad cards. he loses against onimaru, helene, ashi, anex, CC, VV, MlM, etc.

Not every cards is supposed to fight 1 vs 1, some are supposed as finishers (example: yoshiro, zina, partially andromeda) or as characters which rely on switching (rumi, MlM).

Originally posted by LordCristian:

Also, it’s worth mentioning that Andro is a pretty nasty opponent at far for higashi. He doesnt face a simple blast or intercept choice. He needs to take into account the lightning arrow. Instead of a 50 50 chance of dealing huge damage, he is facing a 1/3 chance.

Nope, he is facing a simple Chi Blast or Dashing Strike choice. It will take at least 2 attacks to kill Higashi (if you go for Trueshot and get a crit; if you don’t have luck, it is 3 attacks), and if you ever fail to predict when is he going to Blast you, you die. And this is for Higashi, a man that can move close without drawback for his offensive power XP

it’s a 1/3 chance, like explained above. switching is an important part of the game, you can’t just exclude it

This is exactly about what I talk, the far range only girl has a 50/50 at far range vs a guy that can insta-kill (ok, in 4 turns XD) or make bleed any character in melee.

You don’t see this as more of a problem with Juju than Andromeda?

I meant that Yoshiro can do 2 chi-blast in a row. At least the most Yoshiros I see, with the Scroll.

Most yoshiros carry insignia, not scroll.

It was just a joke, but it’s obvios what it means: Andromeda simply CAN’T win a battle aganist Phoebe or Anex (and before someone talks abour that 5% miss chance, let’s just ignore that for the sake of a structured debate, ok?). Marquis Le Morte has more chances vs Vanessa Voss than Andromeda has vs Phoebe or Anex.

Any of them (except for Phoebe maybe) can kill any charater at any range.

No, phoebe can kill at any range. However, if you’re saying that a character needs to be able to deal damage at both ranges, then this is a really bad definition of all-rounder, since almost all of the cast fits this definition.

Sorry man, but YES. With RoA 4 speed, you can tie Hex and outspeed Power Toss (if Anex is low in health this really makes a difference), and with the proper item you can outspeed most of the power moves and even tie Power Lash! And with Trueshot at speed 3 it could tie things like Rush of Bats or Power Toss (c’mon, right now it loses vs everything except for Leafy Trap and Spirit Assistance!), eliminating that sensation of “if I survive the hit I’m gonna eat, maybe I’ll do some damage” so common when you play with Andromeda.

WRT rain of arrows: You will almost never outspeed power toss since Anex will carry a valk charm 99% of the time. It doesn’t matter if you tie hex, since all it takes is for juju to move in close once and it’s back to 50/50 assuming juju is carrying the elusive feather. Nobody cares if you tie Power Lash because you’re probably gonna get owned by power lash hard anyway. Also, before someone brings it up, Ubuntu will 99% of the time carry a Death Mask, so 2xRoA will still tie anyway and most people have knowledge of a button called the move close button, which gives ubuntu the edge here.

WRT trueshot: No, none of that matters. Sure, you tie RoB, but anybody who doesn’t repeatedly smash their heads against walls is smart enough to, you know, MOVE CLOSE at least once so that andromeda can only perform one trueshot instead of the 2 needed to kill cain.

Your solution only makes Andromeda go from “wtf i sux” to “wtf i stil sux but hay I can barely do more damage than I could before.” Giving a speed boost to those two moves doesn’t help her situation much at all.

I think there’s a flaw with Andro’s design. She can only attack from far, so you would expect her to be the best character at far range. However she can’t do much against neither PT nor PL. Imagine you switch Andro and your opponent switches in Anex or Phoebe at the same turn (which happens quite a lot btw). Anex or Phoebe are quite content to stay far. Now, there’s something wrong with this in my book.

Andro is fun to use, you can mess with people expecting to swap her whenever you get close. Wasted energy on their part+RoA is pretty annoying, imo. You just have to be careful about not sitting in and eating a crit stoned trushot.

It’s a common misconception that because Andromeda only has far ranged moves, she has to be the best character at far range. This simply isn’t the case, and I’d imagine that if Andromeda had her own far range nuke that could compete straight up with Power Toss or Power Lash then she’d be overpowered.

Andro’s strength is her ability to deal with every close range character extremely well. The three close-only characters in particular have a very difficult time against her, thanks to her incredible energy management and versatile skill choices. She also has decent matchups against a lot of all-rounders, guessing correctly against Higashi or Yoshi means you will take very little damage from them. She even has arguably the best items to choose from to further assist her matchups, if you want her to be able to beat Ubuntu then just run the Sacred Candle for example.

I’m not saying she doesn’t need a buff, there are probably a few decent ways to improve her and encourage more people to play as her while still sticking to her ‘theme’. However, bear in mind that a huge reason she doesn’t see play is because Anex is so very prevalent in the current metagame.

Bad 1vs1 match-ups are found all over the place in this game, some of them are pretty extreme (Andromeda vs Phoebe or Anex, Cain vs MLM or CC, Voss against MLM or Amaya) and some are softer like CC against Oni, or Popo against CC. If you want to argue that such match-ups should not exist then that’s fine, and possibly a legitimate point. However the argument that Andromeda should beat Anex and Phoebe at far is just incorrect.