Forums Ninja Warz

DPS (Damage per second)

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There’s a bit of confusion in this area. For each weapon there are 2 numbers shown: DPS and Speed.

My understanding is that speed is included in the DPS number, hence the damage per SECOND. It does not make much sense at all to have 2 weapons like, for example, a 25 DPS that is fast and a 25 DPS that is slow.

Fast and slow can be considered measurements of time, and so are seconds. Does anyone understand this?

 
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Yes, i understand this, it’s simple.

Imagine you have a 20% chance to make a critical hit. You’re using a weapon which makes one hit per second, and on a crit it hits for 200 damage. You have a 20% chance to do 200 damage, with an 80% chance of doing, say, 100 damage.

then you have a 20% chance to make a hit, but on a weapon which makes 5 hits per second. On a crit it hits for 40 damage, (this is assuming both weapons have the same dps), and on a normal hit it makes 20 damage.
this means that you have 20% x5 chance to make a critical hit, and more often than not, you will make a critical. So say you make two crits, and the rest are standard, this would give you 140 damage in total, parring to the slow weapons hit of 100/200, yet the slow weapon has only a 20% chance to do more damage than you would have done with the faster weapon.

This is completely theoretical, as each person will have their own critical percentages and each damage will vary.

Hope this clarifies.

- Dylan.

 
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yes, i’ve played this game alot…. what happens (in more basic) is say you cause 25 dps….. that means, every sec, they take 25… u atk every 3 sec? every hit is 75 (25dpsX3sec=75) ^^

 
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Ahh I see what you mean.

Do you understand my point though? Having DPS and Speed that are 2 different stats on a weapon doesnt make sense at all.

Example: (Just made up examples, nothing tested)
a weapon that has 20 DPS and is fast, which will do 25 damage per second (dps?)
a weapon that has 20 DPS and is slow, which will do 15 damage per second (dps?)

Please tell me im not the only one who can see this doesnt make sense lol

 
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No nathan that’s wrong, if it has 20 dps, it has 20dps, regardless of speed the damage per second is constant. It is unchanging and only fluctuates on criticals.

 
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can some good soul explain how +xx% to speed affects final DMG output?

 
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Well if you make 1 attack per second, and each attack does 100 damage. Then having a %20 attack speed would make it so you have 1.2 attacks per second, (12 attacks in 10 seconds), at 100 damage, so you’d do 1200 damage, as a pose to 1000 damage without the %20 boost.

Simple enough, hopefully that solves your querie :)

 
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You guys are confusing what DPS and Speed. Each actually do something.

DPS – Damage Per Second | Simply put, every second you will do this much damage.
Speed | Faster is better, because the more you hit, the more chances you have at critting.

So, 20 DPS that hits 5 times in a second, gets more chances at crit because it hit more.
20 DPS that hits once in a second, gets a single chance to crit (for that second.)

 
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DPS the damage done each second,speed is how much times you hit in that second so high speed same dps vs slow speed dps is like doing 10 small damage a hit vs doing 2 big damage a hit doing same damage a second!!
I’d go with fastest if it’s same dps cause say enemy has 15 health left a weapon that does 20dps fast hits 10 times a second for 2 damage each and slow 2hits a second for 10 damage each you need 8/10 hits to land of the 1st fast weapon to kill the enemy (80% a second took to kill) or 2/2 hits from the slow weapon (100% a second took to kill)

 
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Basically, this is how I see it.
EX: Two Weapons have the same DPS. One weapon has a fast rating, One weapon has a slow rating.
The two weapons are both doing the same damage. BUT, The faster weapon is doing, lets say 5x more hits in a second than the slower one.
The faster weapon though, is only doing 1/5 the damage per hit as the slower weapon is.
So, in one second, the faster weapon 5 hits of 20 damage.
Also in one second, the slower weapon does 1 hit of 100 damage.
So… Both weapons are doing 100 damage in one second each.
Truthfully, like how Blade said, I would choose a faster attack speed weapon, because if the enemy is low on health, the faster weapon is constantly dishing out damage, unlike the slower weapon, which you would have to wait for the damage, while the enemy has time to attack you.

 
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DragonArcher, that’s exactly what i said, if you had read it.
Atrain you’re right, but the reason this thread stemmed was because of a discussion about criticals, not singular damage.

 
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dylan, It’s the same thing with criticals, just with higher damage attacks. A weapon with lower speed does a higher crit, while a faster speed does multiple, smaller crits

 
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Speed | Faster is better, because the more you hit, the more chances you have at critting.

From a strict damage throughput standpoint, this isn’t the case.

Let’s assume we have two weapons:
A: 10 damage once per second
B: 5 damage twice per second

Let’s assume a fixed time frame of 10 seconds, disregard misses, and assume that criticals do 3x normal damage (it’s actually irrelevant whether it’s 2x, 3x, or even 10x):
A: 10 hits (1 critical) = 9×10 + 1×30 = 120 damage
B: 20 hits (2 criticals) = 18×5 + 2×15 = 120 damage

On average, in spite of the fact that the faster weapon deals twice as many criticals in the same time frame, we still end up doing the same total damage because the criticals themselves will only do half damage. The results are exactly the same for both weapons which may be counter-intuitive to some.

Misses are also irrelevant. If 20% of those hits miss, then we expect an average throughput of 80% (96 damage).

That said, it can still make sense to prefer the higher speed weapon of the same DPS, but not merely because it lands more criticals. It’s for two reasons:

1. lower variance (more consistency): a lower speed weapon is going to result in more outcomes in the same time frame. As with the Law of Large Numbers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers), more trials in the same time period = more consistent outcome. Both will average the same results in the long run, but there’s going to be less short-term deviation with the faster weapon simply because it’s going to get more attacks in given the same time period. On the flip side, the slower weapon will give more varying results which means you have a higher probability of getting very unlucky or very lucky, even though it evens out in the long run.

2. Less time wasted. Say we have an opponent with 55 health. Without landing criticals, weapon A in the above example would require at least 6 seconds to defeat the opponent. Weapon B could dispatch him in 5.5 seconds. That half a second difference could make the difference between winning/losing and affect how much damage your ninja takes before you dispatch him. That said, if we consider criticals into the equation, the amount of damage dealt in a given time frame can vary considerably and still averages the same for both weapons, so it really comes down more to consistency (#1 above) than anything else.

 
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one more point:

how exactly does armor work?

lets say my opponenet has 3 armor, does it reduce every dammage by 3?
because that would mean slower weapons are more effective against armored opponents
example:
one weapon dealing (a)10 dammage per second, another(b) 5 dammage twice per second. this would mean in 10 second does
a) 10x(10-3) = 70 dammage
b) 20x(5-3) = 40 dammage
including criticals, slow weapons become even more effective

i dont know if this is correct, because its nowhere stated how armor exactly works (and what is the basic armor?)

 
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Ghost I’m pretty sure armor is a percentage capped at 50% so that 3 armor would decrease damage by 3%

I think this is correct i may be wrong

 
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there are relics which give +x armor and relics which give +x% armor…

 
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Higher speed would be more consistent whereas low speed (with equal dps) would allow you to hit some high #s inconsistently.

 
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+x armor and +x% armor mean the same thing. There are a whole lot of typos and inconsistent names in this game but they mean the same thing.

 
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A lot of people mention the hypothetical scenario with a fast weapon where the enemy has 1 hp (or less than one attack worth of health). In that case, the damage of the weapon doesn’t matter, only how fast it is, since any attack that lands is going to dispatch the enemy. There the fast weapon can give a slight edge.

However, there is also a scenario where the slow weapon is actually better. Let’s say we have two weapons:
A) 10 damage, 3 attacks/sec (30 DPS)
B) 15 damage, 2 attacks/sec (30 DPS)

Now let’s assume no criticals and take an unarmored opponent who has 15 hp. Assuming the attacks don’t miss, the slower weapon, B, will dispatch the opponent in 0.5 seconds: it’ll kill him with the first hit. The faster weapon will actually take ~0.66 secs (requiring two hits) meaning the slower weapon in this case actually kills the opponent faster.

This might seem really counter-intuitive, but in this case, given two weapons of the same DPS at different speeds, the slower weapon can actually kill an enemy faster!

At the end of the day, it’s really hard to say for sure that the faster weapon of the same DPS is always going to perform better. Any edge we can gain between a faster or slower weapon of the same DPS is going to be quite subtle, but one thing that’s definitely going to be different is the amount of variance in results. The faster weapon will be more consistent, but at the same time it’s not going to give you lucky results or unlucky results quite as often as the slower weapon, where the results are going to inevitably vary more.

 
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This thread is not worth posting numbers and stats on. At level 100, there’s only 1 choice of weapon (2 choices if you buy karma). Now buying 25 of these costs 2 billion (2,000,000,000) gold. Until you reach level 100, you would be making a mistake buying weapons. Just use drops that you get, and always use highest DPS (fast or slow).

 
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Originally posted by Sych:

This thread is not worth posting numbers and stats on. At level 100, there’s only 1 choice of weapon (2 choices if you buy karma). Now buying 25 of these costs 2 billion (2,000,000,000) gold. Until you reach level 100, you would be making a mistake buying weapons. Just use drops that you get, and always use highest DPS (fast or slow).

I’m having luck with Sych’s take. Thanks!

 
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Originally posted by Nathan11101:

There’s a bit of confusion in this area. For each weapon there are 2 numbers shown: DPS and Speed.

My understanding is that speed is included in the DPS number, hence the damage per SECOND. It does not make much sense at all to have 2 weapons like, for example, a 25 DPS that is fast and a 25 DPS that is slow.

Fast and slow can be considered measurements of time, and so are seconds. Does anyone understand this?

I do. It is damage per strike :D DPS is damage per strike and speed is just speed
 
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lookin’ at the datastream, a weapon has the two attributes ‘base_speed’ and ‘base_damage’. The displayed ‘dps’ value calculates by: 100*’base_damage’/‘base_speed’. Therfore ‘dps’ should be damage per second.

IMO the higher speed is better, as power gives additional damage to the weapon. The higher the weapon speed, the lower the weapon’s base damage, so the additional bonus weights higher.

 
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Yes. It’s damage per second.
And there are many write-ups on how it works.

Here