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New mods needed for Jugon (locked)

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I didn’t get a chance to voice an opinion in the original thread, so:

Jugon definitely needs more mature and fair mods. Every time I log in, all I see is the same 4 or 5 people talking, and when anybody tries to talk about something else, he/she seems to get banned. So much for an open chat…

You should also really re-consider appointing proven cheaters as mods. How do you expect anyone to respect their authority, when everyone already knows they were caught cheating???? The proof is in your own decisions, so this is not a “rumor”.

If you want a recommendation, simple: choose anybody outside of this little “gang” of cheaters.

 
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I’ll quote myself from the last thread:


If a mod is abusing power, use the feedback feature and let the staff know exactly what happened and when it happened. They can then view the chat logs to see if this is true.


Vague comments about supposed problems and unsubstantiated accusations are hard for the admins to follow up on.

 
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This is why we only take into consideration recommendations made by moderators and other active/respected members of the community.

 
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And too, He created an alt named “arcadeConer” so that they believe that he is a mod because the names are similar.


Wow you’re right, he even stole my avatar to make it more convincing: http://www.kongregate.com/accounts/arcadeConer

 
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Re: Winnitta – why do you think that EVERYBODY who does not agree with you is the same person?? Besides from being absurd, talk about “unsubstantiated accusations”.

Re: the accusations – Greg, ArcaneCoder, do you consider 3 people losing all their points due to a “ratings fraud” that was PUBLISHED IN THEIR PROFILES (Winnitta, Machowsky, CarlosCai) “unsubstantiated”? Are these PROVEN CHEATERS what Kongregate considers “active/respected members”?

RATINGS FRAUD – do tell how this is vague and usubstantiated.

 
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MaryKay, please control yourself. Don’t make yourself look like a n00b.

 
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For all to see:

http://www.kongregate.com/accounts/CarlosCai/rewards (see August 10, 2007 entry)

http://www.kongregate.com/accounts/Winnitta/rewards?page=54 (see August 11, 2007 entries)

http://www.kongregate.com/accounts/Machowsky/rewards?page=18 (see August 1, 2007 entries)

BTW – quote from Winnitta’s profile page, on insults posted by her on the Kong Racing game:

LOL you are a loser, you say that because I A.L.W.A.Y.S. won you…RonnieDowd & mandingofan”

Nice… very diginified… again, this is the type of person you believe to be “active/respected members of the community”?? Wonderful – then no wonder your chat rooms are such a mess and full of trolls :S.

 
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Retron: I AM a noob, see my shiny “Level 1” badge? =D. Does that make my opinion less valuable? If I need to cheat my way up to Level 32 for you to understand this, let me know ;).

 
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Can’t mods ip check?

 
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MaryKay, its obvious your emotions are running high, so please calm yourself down. You act as if everyone here is omnipotent and that everyone knows all that goes on. All I did was was give you a tip to provide stronger evidence than just making claims, there is no need to jump ahead and come to bogus conclusions because of that. I’m not even going to respond to some of the things you said, simply because they were quite rude and immature.

Regarding your claims, if they are valid then the staff will evaluate them, should they choose. If you have anything more to say, or more evidence to give, you will have a better chance being listened to if you do it in a more controlled and mature way. If you cant do that, we’ll have to lock down the thread again and you can use the official feedback channel to voice your complaints.

 
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Hi Arcane,

Well, nobody likes being called a liar, which is pretty much what you implied of me, but I’m cool. What I think is also obvious is that you seem to rush to judgment in favor of mods, albeit very recently appointed ones, even in light of “evidence” (snicker – cmon, this is not a trial, just a game site, but if you wanted “proof” of my statements, that’s all I did: point you to the exact places in Kong where you can see what I am talking about).

Anywho… it shouldn’t be so hard and such a tragedy to admit error in choosing these mods. There are plenty of kickass mods here, even and including in the Jugon room (upierz and kalash, except two good mods are not enough for a room). Of the dozens (hundreds?) of Kong mods, it is quite understandable that some of them don’t work out as planned – arielrc05 was already de-moded for this, and hell didn’t break loose. What’s sad is that there seems to be no intention at all of looking into claims made by people who are (evidently) not “allied” to these cheating mods.

BTW, I disagree with you calling any comments rude or immature, but I respect your right to think so. If calling a cheat by his/her name, with plenty of proof of it, is rude/immature, then I can just agree to disagree.

 
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MaryKay ( Jordism, sabarrie, uriel, chacachaca, etc.) stop talk about me machowsky and winnitta.. mods: this user have a lot of account.. and he is talking about our all time.. he insult in jugon all time..
Sorry for my bad english, i speak spanish.. im from argentina..
PD: we have proof of we are saying..

 
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MaryKay, I never accused you of lying, you choose to interpret it that way. You must understand that of all the countless members of this site, you cannot just take anyones word for it, but must have evidence. That goes for all situations, and is usually a pretty obvious rule. Do you really think we can de-mod or ban everyone who is ever accused of anything without evidence? We all know that is an extremely unreasonable expectation.

So don’t take my comment so personally. Overreacting in this way can reflect badly on your judgment and reduce your credibility in such accusations against others.

 
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Hey Arcane!

So… a bad prosecutor means a guilty man deserves to go free? That might say a little something about your judgment too ;) (nothing personal)

All exciting emotions aside… frankly, MaryKay has some valid points. I hope MY rank earns me more credibility =). I am not here to point fingers, but Jugon could use a little more attention by the more experienced admins and mods. A random chat log might show you that, in many (most?) cases, an argument in Jugon will begin with a jab from one of the people who claim innocence (and that includes mods).

I wonder if this post will get me banned… XD. Can’t we have an intelligent discussion instead?

 
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I have proofs that all these accounts come from the same person. “sabarrie” was an account of another person who gave his account in the chat of Jugon and he took it and now when “marykay” this banned, he come back with this account to answer.

Here do there go all the proofs that all these accounts belong to him, including that of Sabarrie, since of having been banned of treating badly the Mods, it returned with “mkay3” the coincidence is not great?

This are the proof:

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6356/prueba2yz1.png
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4639/prueba1of9.png

The name that he uses means “pussy” and he fills my profile with many meaningless shout.(42 shout)

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4193/prueba3om4.png Profile of khameleon, he stole my avatar only to bother.
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3851/prueba4af3.png Profile of bobpatino, the same that khameleon

http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sabarrieymkay3gz6.jpg Sabarrie is mkay3 and he was bothering to the mods of Jugon and when he was banned, he returned with mkay3

 
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Sabarrie: all in jugon know, that isnt your account :/ u take sabarrie’s points and cards, and ure the same people that marykay, and u have like 100 or more accounts.. Thats why u always got banned, cause u insult another people and mute the mods..

Sorry for my bad english..
I just want to say that this person, sabarrie (marykay) is trying to capt attention talking bad about jugon mods..

 
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I look forward to seeing any kind of proof of any of your claims. Unlike your loud-mouthed buddies, I do not insult other players.

Yet again… a “mod” provoking users, now in a forum discussion… ridiculous

“mute the mods” – I only mute people who become offensive or try to provoke me to fight. As stated by arcaneCoder: nobody can be harassed for using the mute feature, that is why it is there. Perhaps you should review the rules and stop harassing.

 
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So… a bad prosecutor means a guilty man deserves to go free? That might say a little something about your judgment too ;) (nothing personal)


I never said that. Perhaps you all will stop putting words in my mouth? You know for a fact nothing can be done about unsubstantiated claims and that its unreasonable to expect otherwise.

I’m not sure why you presume I’m against anyone, and why you choose to argue with me. I’m not the one who will take care of anything. I’m simply pointing out the obvious, and letting you know that if this is true and you want anything to be done, evidence needs to be provided if you expect the admins to do anything. Arguing with me for pointing out the obvious is silly and works against your cause. Perhaps I should withhold future advice and leave you to fair on your own in the future?


bq. Unlike your loud-mouthed buddies, I do not insult other players.


You just proved otherwise, all in the same sentence.


bq. Yet again… a “mod” provoking users, now in a forum discussion… ridiculous


I have not seen a mod provoke anyone in this thread. If anything, I’m starting to sense the tone here, an oversensitivity and prejudice towards those who disagree.


bq. I am not here to point fingers, but Jugon could use a little more attention by the more experienced admins and mods.


Well, you’re talking to one of the longest standing mods on the site, and one of the original Kongregate developers. I offered some advice and got attitude in response. I went into jugon the other day to check up on the situation only to have my account cloned so that more trouble could be stirred up against the mods. I was going to speak with the admins about some concerns, but with the attitude I’m getting in this thread alone, I’m wondering if its really worth my time.

If you’re concerns are merited, they are likely to be addressed. However, as I’ve been saying, you are less likely to see change by coming in here with an anti-mod attitude, insults and pointless arguments. You can take my advice and work things out maturely, or you can get involved in a tug of war between the other mods, which you are likely to lose. Your choice. Either way my life goes on just the same, I’m just trying to point you in the best direction.

In any case, know that the moderator situation for the alternate language rooms is something that is constantly on the admins minds, and they try hard to find responsible mods. It is not easy, due to the language barrier, and as soon as qualified users can be found they will be added to the mod list. Until then I suggest both parties leave things be unless you can point out chat logs of such ‘harassment’; and when you do so, use the feedback feature instead of engaging in public debate.

 
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Hola arcane,

You said:
“Well, you’re talking to one of the longest standing mods on the site, and one of the original Kongregate developers.”

I don’t understand why you think my comment was directed to you, when I suggested Jugon needs more mature and experienced mods. I think you are not a Jugon mod, correct? If you are one of the original mods, then please visit us in Jugon more! That was what I was proposing in the first place. So, if this thread succeeds in bringing more “veteran” attention to Jugon, I’m very happy.

I didn’t know “loud-mouth” was an insult =). There is much worse use of profanities in Jugon any day, but if you think that was an insult, I apologize. In any case, again, this was NOT referring to you, since you are clearly a much mature person. Please don’t take it personal or everything against you.

You did not address my question about the use of “mute” : could you share your views on that? Did I quote you correctly from what you said at the Jugon room?

 
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I don’t understand why you think my comment was directed to you, when I suggested Jugon needs more mature and experienced mods. I think you are not a Jugon mod, correct?


I was not implying that, nor did I think it was directed towards me. I said that because you were asking for input from someone more experienced; instead of the normal jugon mods; so I was pointing out that someone more experienced was in fact involved.


bq. I didn’t know “loud-mouth” was an insult =). There is much worse use of profanities in Jugon any day, but if you think that was an insult, I apologize. In any case, again, this was NOT referring to you, since you are clearly a much mature person. Please don’t take it personal or everything against you.


I know it was not directed towards me. But yes, to call someone ‘loud mouthed’, specially in that context is considered an insult, minor though it may be.


bq. You did not address my question about the use of “mute” : could you share your views on that? Did I quote you correctly from what you said at the Jugon room?


Yes you quoted me correctly. To my knowledge, moderators should not be enforcing a virtual rule on users not to mute them, since it is not a rule I am aware of (could be wrong). I am aware from my visits to jugon that some are giving out warnings based on this, which I dont think should happen. However, I am not the one who makes the rules of the site, so my opinions are just my opinions; the staff are the ones to make that call.

I imagine the possibility of future changes that disallow users to mute mods, because frankly it is not a very smart thing to do. It puts you at higher risk of being banned since you are not aware of any warnings that the mods give out. If a moderator gives you warnings (based on real offenses) that you dont heed because you have them muted, then you might get banned for not listening. In that case it would be your fault, for muting them. I would not recommend it in the least, nor would I suggest that either parties argue over this.

Perhaps down the road if we implement automated warnings as has been discussed, it would be more sensible to mute them since a warning message could still get through. Until then, you do so at your own risk. If you get banned for missing a warning, dont complain about being banned.

As far as the mods go, it would be more sensible to stop giving out warnings based solely on the users muting you. Until some rules are set or staff says something about it, users have that right. If they miss other (real) warnings you give, its their loss. Choose your battles.

Regarding the rules, please make sure to review to behavior guidelines and remember that it is not your responsibility to tell a moderator how to do their job. Moderators, please review the moderator guidelines as well (link is in the mod forums).

Also remember that official word only comes from staff, so if greg or the others have something to say about it, they will; and that it what should be followed. These statements are just my opinions, nothing really enforceable.

 
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Fair enough – thanks again for your opinions. I am glad that you know that the comments posted here by the many “non-aligned” players are not personal or apply to ALL mods. Even if this is repetitive, there are many mods who do a very good job, and a couple in Jugon who also do a very good job, that I only wish would be online more often =).

Anecdotal: after my last entry, I was playing DTD in Jugon, and saw a player named “Focus” respond to another player who had asked “what clan are you?” with “your ass and bread” (literal translations). No warning (until I asked Kalash for it, and even then, he said it was “not too bad” and that was why there was no warning). A few lines later, the other player (“Luca”) called “Focus” idiot. Luca gets warning. He would be banned later for definitely the right reasons, but why let the provocations start?

Now, Focus is part of this Jugon clan. Luca is not. Coincidence? This happens too often in Jugon. Kalash is an excellent mod, and I want to think he was not prejudiced (lenient, maybe, but not ill-willed). The reason I mention this is that this is what you see in Jugon very often. When a “protected” player insults, or accuses, or harasses another player, can you blame him/her for “returning fire” when the mod does nothing (at best)? If both players are banned, that sends the right message – if only it happened that way.

Again, I appreciate your opinions and, as unbelievable as it may seem, I (and I guess the others who have complained in this thread) only want a more fair and friendly room to play in. I hope the admins and the “core team” continue to pay attention to this.

 
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What is “ratings fraud” MaryKay? Don’t understand what shows in the URL’s about fraud, somebody explain?

 
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I’d like a bit more elaboration about this “ratings fraud” business.

To my knowledge, moderators should not be enforcing a virtual rule on users not to mute them, since it is not a rule I am aware of (could be wrong).

Am I understanding this correctly, that we’re talking about moderators enforcing a rule of users NOT muting other people? There is certainly no such rule. Users can mute moderators if they wish, though they wouldn’t be able to see any warnings if they decided to start spamming chat or something.

 
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@sabarrie: The situation you mentioned is very minor and the moderator did the right thing by not getting involved early on. It has been instructed to us not to get involved in minor quibbles, but only when things get out of hand. We are not there to police every comment, but we have given you the mute feature to handle minor issues like that.

@greg: Yes, you’ve got it about right. Its about moderators giving out official warnings saying that ‘users cannot mute moderators’. This seems to be a grating issue in jugon. Some users quoted to the mods what I said that ‘anyone can mute anyone, thats what its for’ and the moderators countered by saying in effect that ‘mods are not just anyone and you cant mute us’.

 
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This is a quote from the moderator guidelines page “Regular users are allowed to get into fights with each other, as long as they keep it relatively civil. Moderators are not. Moderators should NOT be drawn into arguments with users or other moderators. If someone has crossed the line and deserves a ban, that’s fine, but until then, moderators are expected to take the high road.”

http://www.kongregate.com/pages/moderators
It may help some of you to read this, with that being said I don’t go to Jugon very much so I’m staying out of this.