Stop Slaying Cows for burgers

Do not not even eat a cow

No.

Oh the irony, I’m about to eat a burger now.

Why? All carnivores eat other animals, so why shouldn’t we be allowed? What many don’t like is the way some animals are treated.

because we’re not carnivores, we don’t need it; we have the ability to override our instincts in do it in many ways for good; other animals don’t cause their own massive overpopulation by defying the laws of biologic nature…

i’ve got too many vegetarian friends.

however, one thing is that predators hunt for their own food once they’re adults, risking their own lives, and giving the prey a natural chance meaning their predatory behavior is a cog in an important mechanism of ecology, by sifting out the situationally vulnerable.

we on the other hand use entire slave herds for food. almost no other animal does that. i don’t like it.

because we’re not carnivores

I didn’t say that. We’re omnivores. We still can eat meat. We hunted since the beginning of mankind.

we don’t need it

Sounds like an ethical argument, but without there being any inherent or objective goals for a human to aim for it isn’t fair to say that carnivores should be allowed to eat meat while we aren’t.

we have the ability to override our instincts in do it in many ways for good

But what, exactly, do you wish to stop? We currently “produce” animals for food, and they wouldn’t be here if there’s no market for meat. While we kill these animals for food, they wouldn’t have lived in the first place if we didn’t eat meat. Is the killing unethical? Or is it really the way they are treated? The latter can be changed. The former is very debatable.

we on the other hand use entire slave herds for food. almost no other animal does that. i don’t like it.

I get that. In fact, we humans are assholes. I don’t like us either. But I don’t think it’s wrong to kill animals for food, specifically.

we on the other hand use entire slave herds for food. almost no other animal does that. i don’t like it.

That’s probably because they are not clever enough to have worked out how to do that. I’m sure they would if they could. This is a much better reason to reduce our consumption of red meat, especially processed meat.

I didn’t say that. We’re omnivores. We still can eat meat. We hunted since the beginning of mankind.

you suggested that the fact that carnivores eat meat means we are justified eating meat. i sort of suggested we’re not carnivores, so the argument is shaky. (i’m only repeating arguments my vegetarian friends make though. i’m not a vegetarian so i’m just playing the devils advocate right now)

Sounds like an ethical argument, but without there being any inherent or objective goals for a human to aim for it isn’t fair to say that carnivores should be allowed to eat meat while we aren’t.

don’t we consider killing others generally wrong? again you argued the carnivores necessity. but they need it, we don’t.

We currently “produce” animals for food, and they wouldn’t be here if there’s no market for meat. While we kill these animals for food, they wouldn’t have lived in the first place if we didn’t eat meat. Is the killing unethical? Or is it really the way they are treated?

to me, no devils advocate, it’s precisely the fact that we “produce” them for the sole purpose of being a food source to us. that’s not a life. we shouldn’t force animals to experiance a non-life.

killing them isn’t wrong to me. not giving them a chance is. i don’t think treating them better really fixes it.

however, if we would naturally hunt for our food the way nature intends, it wouldn’t be possible because of our over-population. to me, that’s the strongest argument in favor of vegetarianism; perhaps even the only argument.

but i didn’t create that fault, so i shouldn’t be the one to suffer it. and with my metabolism, keeping meat off the menu would be very hard.

you suggested that the fact that carnivores eat meat means we are justified eating meat. i sort of suggested we’re not carnivores, so the argument is shaky.

No. I suggested that the argument it is wrong purely because it shouldn’t be done is exactly shaky because carnivores do it as well. You don’t think eating meat is bad. You include a lot of specific reasons instead (which I think you did later on, but I didn’t contest it with this specific argument).

don’t we consider killing others generally wrong?

It isn’t inherently wrong, and there are many reasons you can think of to justify killing life. Take squashing bugs. Take self-defense against a murderer. Take assisted suicide.

but they need it, we don’t.

Don’t think this is more than a subjective argument for not using it. It is true, I don’t deny that, but that doesn’t automatically mean we shouldn’t.

not giving them a chance is.

A chance? Do you think plants stand a chance when we take them away for eating? I don’t think this is necessarily a good argument either.

I have a vague idea where you’re coming from, but I don’t think I can agree with the current arguments.

Wow, guys…this thread has the potential to be a great one. Of course, to do so, it will likely need to evolve into a much broader scope on the food sources of human consumption.
BUT, I’ve very much ‘hungry’ for more of this ‘suculent’ give & take on the issue. Ya all are making some damn fine points.

Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

because we’re not carnivores

Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

I didn’t say that. We’re omnivores. We still can eat meat. We hunted since the beginning of mankind.

The only thing I can think of to add to this is that we pretty much eat too much RED meat. AND, much of that is prepard in a way that is REALLY ‘unhealthy" for us…hamburgers. That being stated, I feel I must ’expand’ the OP to include other kinds of meat: turkey (much more healty), buffalo//beeffalo (very healthy), lamb, rabbit, squirrel, chickens, pork, veal (yeah, I know it’s still beef…it’s just that it is a by-product of milk farming), etc.

Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

we don’t need it

Omega…far to often, NEED, isn’t even considered in what humans indulge themselves in. See below what Dark sez about us being ‘assholes’.

Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

Sounds like an ethical argument, but without there being any inherent or objective goals for a human to aim for it isn’t fair to say that carnivores should be allowed to eat meat while we aren’t.

Not only can it be an “ethical argument”….I see it as a highly subjective one. Don’t forget that beef is a good source for protien…a necessity for good health. AND, yes…I know there are NON-animal sources.

Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

we have the ability to override our instincts & do it in many ways for good

Yes we do. But, sorry, having ability & having the desire to use it often defines us as—see below—ASSHOLES.

Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

But what, exactly, do you wish to stop? We currently “produce” animals for food, and they wouldn’t be here if there’s no market for meat. While we kill these animals for food, they wouldn’t have lived in the first place if we didn’t eat meat. Is the killing unethical? Or is it really the way they are treated? The latter can be changed. The former is very debatable.

While the text preceeding that in bold is most salient, the bold is what I see as the crux of the discussion.

Our ‘demand’ for meat (esp. beef) is what drives the means of “demand//supply” to the point of horrid treatment of the ‘product’.

Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

we on the other hand use entire slave herds for food. almost no other animal does that. i don’t like it.

No do I, Omega…I abhor it.

Originally posted by Darkruler2005:

I get that. In fact, we humans are assholes. I don’t like us either. But I don’t think it’s wrong to kill animals for food, specifically.

{in bold}: There ya have it. THAT is the root of the ‘problem’. While somewhat beside the point, this ‘human-assholeistness’ being helped along via massive advertising, doesn’t help. BUT, whatever the reason for our ‘overconsumption’ of meats & our (seemingly??) inability to moderate this behavior is pretty much the direct influence on the way the animals are treated. For the most part….they are ‘killed’ in a ‘reasonably’ human manner.

I realize I’m going to do (prematurely?) exactly what I said would happen at the top. BUT, I want to expand the OP to address our treatment of animals to include our animals for NON-food reasons. Clubing baby seals merely for their petls makes me sick. The whole sale slaughter of bison (late 1800’s) merely for hides…..w/ the result of nearly destroying our Native Amer. culture. Killing whales (to drastic (near extinction??) levels for their bubble for light-fuel….merely because it burned w/ less smoke than other available sources. Killing black rhinos ONLY for their horns….because orientals think it will make their cocks harder. Doing massive LIVE harm to lab animals…often times for the dumbest of reasons.

Originally posted by beauval:

we on the other hand use entire slave herds for food. almost no other animal does that. i don’t like it.

That’s probably because they are not clever enough to have worked out how to do that. I’m sure they would if they could. This is a much better reason to reduce our consumption of red meat, especially processed meat.

Good link, beauval….it really puts a nice ‘perspective’ on the OP.
AND, I would like to add a little to your ESPCIALLY processed. Not, by any means, ‘processed’ likely means the GROWTH HORMONES added (among other very unhealthy products//drugs?) added to meats. Where do ya all think those HUGE “Butterball” turkey breasts come from?

Originally posted by OmegaDoom:

because we’re not carnivores, we don’t need it; we have the ability to override our instincts in do it in many ways for good; other animals don’t cause their own massive overpopulation by defying the laws of biologic nature…

i’ve got too many vegetarian friends.

however, one thing is that predators hunt for their own food once they’re adults, risking their own lives, and giving the prey a natural chance meaning their predatory behavior is a cog in an important mechanism of ecology, by sifting out the situationally vulnerable.

we on the other hand use entire slave herds for food. almost no other animal does that. i don’t like it.

We are omnivores and have evolved to eat meat. Through we can work around needing to eat animals(by defying the laws of biological nature?*). Though not all people can do so and stay healthy. Many people develop allergic reactions through their lives that set their own limits on what food maybe eaten, which can conflict with the vegetarian workarounds.
Also currently the percentage of vegetarians in the world population is in the lower single digits. Some of the workarounds would not be sustainable if widened out to whole population of the world.

*Can you name some “laws of biological nature” that humans can defy? I smell the serious need for a reality check. To me it sounds a lot like your vegetarian friends hold a belief that ignores actual nature and reality in preference to a hollowed and mystified nature that does not really exist. Certainly fine as a personal belief, but not much base for a non religious argument.

Simple answer: Meat is a natural part of our diet, so it’s reasonable to eat animals lower on the food chain such as cows.

I don’t see why this is such a big discussion.

We’re the dominant species. Shit must die for us to carry on living. We like the taste of meat. Cry me a river. I’m going to go get a burger.

Originally posted by scoopolard:

We’re the dominant species. Shit must die for us to carry on living. We like the taste of meat. Cry me a river. I’m going to go get a burger.

I might ‘challenge’ that with: cockroaches & ants,,,, maybe fleas, chiggers, dust mites, aphids, worms, etc.

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

Originally posted by scoopolard:

We’re the dominant species. Shit must die for us to carry on living. We like the taste of meat. Cry me a river. I’m going to go get a burger.

I might ‘challenge’ that with: cockroaches & ants,,,, maybe fleas, chiggers, dust mites, aphids, worms, etc.

I might challenge that with “diseases”. Plus that’s a different topic entirely. We do not generally eat those things to survive.

Originally posted by MoonlaughMaster:

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

Originally posted by scoopolard:

We’re the dominant species. Shit must die for us to carry on living. We like the taste of meat. Cry me a river. I’m going to go get a burger.

I might ‘challenge’ that with: cockroaches & ants,,,, maybe fleas, chiggers, dust mites, aphids, worms, etc.

I might challenge that with “diseases”. Plus that’s a different topic entirely. We do not generally eat those things to survive.

The point is: THEY EAT US TO SURVIVE.

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

Originally posted by MoonlaughMaster:

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

Originally posted by scoopolard:

We’re the dominant species. Shit must die for us to carry on living. We like the taste of meat. Cry me a river. I’m going to go get a burger.

I might ‘challenge’ that with: cockroaches & ants,,,, maybe fleas, chiggers, dust mites, aphids, worms, etc.

I might challenge that with “diseases”. Plus that’s a different topic entirely. We do not generally eat those things to survive.

The point is: THEY EAT US TO SURVIVE.

Ah, you are speaking in terms of decomposers. They are in a special niche, ie, they eat the top of the foodchain, yet are at the bottom of the foodchain.

It isn’t inherently wrong, and there are many reasons you can think of to justify killing life. Take squashing bugs. Take self-defense against a murderer. Take assisted suicide.

all of those examples have a way to justify the killing. bugs multiply if left alone and cause all kinds of problems, and aren’t exactly highly sapient; self-defence is what it says; assisted suicide is also … i mean, those examples show that murder itself is bad much more than it shows it’s not. because they’re exceptions.

Don’t think this is more than a subjective argument for not using it. It is true, I don’t deny that, but that doesn’t automatically mean we shouldn’t.

no, that’s why it’s a response to an argument. in fact some vegetarians have a cat, and this is their reason for buying catfood along with their soya-based meat emulation.

Do you think plants stand a chance when we take them away for eating

i think we can discount plants because they’re not even sentient for the most part, and in fact we don’t eat and often don’t even kill the organism; we just kill and eat some of it’s body parts (biologically speaking).

there’s no psychological life ended by eating plants; nor is there necessarily a genetic individual’s existence removed from the genepool.

Yes we do. But, sorry, having ability & having the desire to use it often defines us as—see below—ASSHOLES.

how does that mean we have to eat meat?

Though not all people can do so and stay healthy. Many people develop allergic reactions through their lives that set their own limits on what food maybe eaten, which can conflict with the vegetarian workarounds.
Also currently the percentage of vegetarians in the world population is in the lower single digits. Some of the workarounds would not be sustainable if widened out to whole population of the world

agreed.

*Can you name some “laws of biological nature” that humans can defy? I smell the serious need for a reality check. To me it sounds a lot like your vegetarian friends hold a belief that ignores actual nature and reality in preference to a hollowed and mystified nature that does not really exist. Certainly fine as a personal belief, but not much base for a non religious argument.

well, we no longer live in endemic tribal warfare; we have irradicated or put under control a large number of deseases; we’ve drastically decreased infant mortality in many of our cultures; we can block conception when we choose to…

that one was mine btw. i don’t think i’ve ever heard “laws of biological nature” before. i’ll coin a new internet acronym: floabw: for Lack Of A Better Word.

Simple answer: Meat is a natural part of our diet, so it’s reasonable to eat animals lower on the food chain such as cows.

just because it’s natural doesn’t mean we must. but i don’t think it’s THAT natural… if you look at our most direct relatives, they eat meat at most once a week, when they catch a monkey or something.

Originally posted by MoonlaughMaster:

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

Originally posted by MoonlaughMaster:

Originally posted by karmakoolkid:

Originally posted by scoopolard:

We’re the dominant species. Shit must die for us to carry on living. We like the taste of meat. Cry me a river. I’m going to go get a burger.

I might ‘challenge’ that with: cockroaches & ants,,,, maybe fleas, chiggers, dust mites, aphids, worms, etc.

I might challenge that with “diseases”. Plus that’s a different topic entirely. We do not generally eat those things to survive.

The point is: THEY EAT US TO SURVIVE.

Ah, you are speaking in terms of decomposers. They are in a special niche, ie, they eat the top of the foodchain, yet are at the bottom of the foodchain.

For me, “dominance” would be “established” by WHO EATS LAST….lol

We’re the dominant species. Shit must die for us to carry on living. We like the taste of meat. Cry me a river. I’m going to go get a burger.

Dominant .. and highly arrogant, if you may prove the example. You are the former, but you don’t have to choose to be the latter. It’s rather annoying.

all of those examples have a way to justify the killing. bugs multiply if left alone and cause all kinds of problems, and aren’t exactly highly sapient; self-defence is what it says; assisted suicide is also … i mean, those examples show that murder itself is bad much more than it shows it’s not. because they’re exceptions.

No, “all” that I’ve shown is that killing isn’t inherently bad, and you can’t reject killing for meat with that type of reasoning. It isn’t more than your opinion we shouldn’t kill for meat (if that is your opinion, or you’re playing devil’s advocate, but it doesn’t matter either way). But it’s a type of justification. I don’t necessarily want it, but I don’t think it’s utterly bad by definition.

i think we can discount plants because they’re not even sentient for the most part, and in fact we don’t eat and often don’t even kill the organism; we just kill and eat some of it’s body parts (biologically speaking).

There are differences, but I believe it is still life, and why would you only hold “sentient life” to the requirement of “having a chance” when being hunted? Aside from that requirement being rather arbitrary.

Just making a notification: I don’t necessarily agree with animals being killed when it isn’t necessary, I just don’t believe these are really valid arguments against it.

AND, I would like to add a little to your ESPCIALLY processed. Not, by any means, ‘processed’ likely means the GROWTH HORMONES added (among other very unhealthy products//drugs?) added to meats. Where do ya all think those HUGE “Butterball” turkey breasts come from?

We have recently seen the beginning of the end of a 20 year trade war between the USA and the EU over this very issue. BBC report here Certain added homones were banned by the EU in 1988, and America took exception to that. The legalities of the situation were largely irrelevant, because every supermarket owner in Europe would have been aware that such meat would have to be labelled with a list of additives, which would result in it sitting on the shelves until it rotted. We’re a bit more suspicious over here than you Americans appear to be.

edit. It’s probably why we live longer than you

Awwwww. Hippy don’t want a hamburger? That’s alright, i’m going to eat a steak in front of PETA.

eat mor chikin

Did I end up in SD again
OP is a pussy

Go away PETA.

Was this moved, or something?
If it was moved, who’s the stupid fuck that moved it here?