Update to nerf temple tiles

28 posts

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So i logged into my t3 raider after the update.

It has temple 5. No extra tiles.
Proving ground 5.
Tavern 4.
Arena 5 + extra tiles for damage boost.
440% healing.

Before the update, i could do 5×100 with ease on the t3 that was 1 tile away, for 13 minutes travel time 1 way. i would take the odd hit, but not a big deal.

After the update, on a 6×100 DE attack, one of my DEs took over 10,000 damage. In one battle.

I had no extra temple tiles before the update, so why are my bonuses nerfed here? Thats a huge swing.

I was planning on 4×100 DEs per attack before the update. Now, after, i cant even do 5×100 with the same layout, that had no extra tiles. Nog you stated it was possible to get the same bonus, my question is how?

And why did i lose a bonus when i had no extra tiles?

 
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So in discussions with some IA people from facebook, i have learned the following.

The tile bonus,when applied originally, was not working properly. The math did not match the output, the output was uber compared to what the math showed.

They pointed this out (rightfully so).

Instead of fixing said problem to make them match, you removed the tile bonus all together.

on top of that, somehow my non extra tile temple is nerfed too, which i still dont understand.

 
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In addition to removing the abused per-Tile bonus, we also fixed a display error.

Creature Bonuses will now display correctly. Previously, the bonuses displayed were not taking into consideration the correct restrictions. These bonuses were not being applied, however, they were being displayed incorrectly

So, while you were seeing the increase, it was never being applied. The game was displaying the bonuses as if the Creature was getting bonuses from all Rooms, not just the one specific to them.

 
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Originally posted by NightOwl_Pellets:

In addition to removing the abused per-Tile bonus, we also fixed a display error.

Creature Bonuses will now display correctly. Previously, the bonuses displayed were not taking into consideration the correct restrictions. These bonuses were not being applied, however, they were being displayed incorrectly

So, while you were seeing the increase, it was never being applied. The game was displaying the bonuses as if the Creature was getting bonuses from all Rooms, not just the one specific to them.

that, sir, is not true. not at all. I was showing 150 defence before your update, now i show 125 defence, and am taking 5 times as much damage. Try again, you are not correct. Dont fluff me

 
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Creature Bonuses will now display correctly. Previously, the bonuses displayed were not taking into consideration the correct restrictions. These bonuses were not being applied, however, they were being displayed incorrectly

also

The Den, Crypt, Coven, Tavern, and Temple no longer offer a per Tile Bonus to Accuracy and Defense. Instead, a 15% bonus to Accuracy and Defense has been added to the Level 4 Temple and Tavern.

So you will likely see an overall difference in may of your buffs, while the per Tile was the only thing that was actually changed, the others were just displaying incorrectly.

 
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And again, i am calling balderdash.

I had no tile bonuses, in any room besides arena, in this dungeon, before the update.

Now, after the update, i am getting smashed, left, right and center fighting t3s.

You may say it was a display issue only. The elves in the t3s apparently believed it over you, as the number is now 25 lower, and im getting obliterated.

Again, i did NOT use temple tiles for stacked bonus. I had no Den, crypt, or coven tiles in this dungeon before the update, nor after.

I will certainly attempt to remain civil here, but what you are telling me is in direct opposition to what the game is showing me, and my own battle results after many many many battles.

The bonus before, WAS being applied.

 
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You must be kidding us. Before the update, I was able to do triple raids on T3s, and only really bad spawns were able to bring me into trouble. And that was even without a big temple (only the normal 5×5 lvl 5), which I added later just to make my raids even less risky.
Now, even pretty easy spawns almost kill my troops, I needed to stop hitting T3s. So you didn’t only punish big temple raiders, but also those with absolutely normal temples. Don’t tell us the outcome of a normal 5×5 temple5 is now the same as before, because EVERYONE who tried it out reported differently.

 
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Originally posted by NightOwl_Pellets:

In addition to removing the abused per-Tile bonus, we also fixed a display error.

Creature Bonuses will now display correctly. Previously, the bonuses displayed were not taking into consideration the correct restrictions. These bonuses were not being applied, however, they were being displayed incorrectly

So, while you were seeing the increase, it was never being applied. The game was displaying the bonuses as if the Creature was getting bonuses from all Rooms, not just the one specific to them.

I have to reiterate what the others have said here. Harlan had mentioned that you guys use some spiffy type back end data collection tools, and much like my DM’s, I would ask for a refund….

Simply put, the fact that you do not think the numbers were crunching properly, does not mean that they were in fact not calculating properly, because they were. I’m no scientist, but there were cases with simply math involved and I was able to calculate things perfectly. Working as intended, designed, and stated in game. No worries I was as shocked as you guys may have been.

 
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an update.

we just ran a skirmish test. 1 level 100 DE against another level 100 DE.

My DE had 100 arena tiles. the other had 146 arena tiles. So my DE has +100% damage, the other DE has +146% damage. These bonuses show in the room descriptions.

Guess what, both DE’s hit the exact same damage.

Arena was not in your update. Arena is displaying a tile bonus. I told you something was wrong.

You nerfed all tile rooms, not just the ones you listed.

Fix arena.

 
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Originally posted by Sharkhunter:

Arena was not in your update. Arena is displaying a tile bonus. I told you something was wrong.

You nerfed all tile rooms, not just the ones you listed.

Fix arena.

That, at least, sound like an explanation that matches the observations. So what now, NoG?

 
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actually we were wrong, forgot GP on our testing, different ones, so its something else thas broken.

 
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Hmmm. Well, I’m sure with another 100 hours of volunteer testing we can make up for NoG’s lack of 20 hours of QA.

 
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Good thing this game isn’t in beta anymore, eh?

 
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If you are experiencing an ingame issue related to specific account events, you can contact support at http://support.nightowlgames.net They will be happy to get full details from you so they can properly submit them to the developers.

 
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After deciphering more of what you are saying, I believe some players are not fully understanding the changes made.

The Den, Crypt, Coven, Tavern, and Temple no longer offer a per Tile Bonus to Accuracy and Defense. Instead, a 15% bonus to Accuracy and Defense has been added to the Level 4 Temple and Tavern.

So, the per-Tile bonus has been removed, however, players were previously able to compound this with the bonus on the level 5 rooms, which was 25%. So, Accuracy and Defense were being increased by the per Tile Bonus, as well as the Bonus received by having a max level Room.

Based on the feedback so far, players appear to be having difficulty completing tasks as they had been successfully completing, prior to the Update. This is expected, as the per Tile Bonus was providing imbalancing bonuses in some cases. The team is open to increasing bonuses on some Rooms, however, they do not want to do so to just allow players to dominate with a single Creature type, rather than having a balanced and diverse strategy for attacks.

 
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so what you are saying is, temple 5 gave 25% bonus, then a 1% bonus for each tile for 25 more?

If thats the case, that needs to be brought back. The tile bonus after the 25 tiles i understand, but you in essence cut the temple 5 bonus in half. You did not state that.

This one minor change made t3 raiding way too difficult to bother with anymore.

 
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Pellets, DE/ghost are already the backbone of any army. You would have to make creature changes to change that.

Imps and succubi are useless, even at high levels. Balrogs/archies are expensive to maintain, so you usually only see 1 of that type, etc.

Make some creature tweaks if you are looking for balance and diversity.

 
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in essence, you guys cut the bonus for a level 5 crypt/temple in half. thats too much. fix that back to what it was. just dont let tiles over 25 count

 
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Seriously, Pebbles — you broke me. Not with the change, but with the horrible customer interaction. I will continue to escalate my complaints to Kongregate as a Kongregate customer deeply concerned about you guys as developers. I’m hoping to see immediate corrections to these ill-conceived changes by Friday, or I will instead be asking Kongregate for a full refund of all the Kreds spent with NoG.

 
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We have been talking this afternoon about ways we can give Creatures some additional bonuses with those max Level Rooms. In general, the per Tile Bonus was overpowered, so the team is hesitant to bring it back up to where it was, even for the standard sized Rooms. However, there are other things they are considering.

 
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With the room nerf, you just turned level 100 DEs into level 75s. with just a 5×5 room. major nerf

 
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Pebbles, glad the developers are finally thinking, but I’ve lost all confidence in your process: your entire company seems structured to encourage and reward whining. I’m not going to play that, and I’m pointing out to Kongregate that I feel you’ve defrauded us and shown a pattern of this kind of behavior. Speaking of which, I hear I’m supposed to whine in a support ticket and I’ll get DM refunded. I might do that for shits and grins while I work on getting a real refund in Kred. You turned an advocate and customer into someone bent on seeing you kicked off Kongregate. Should I submit that in a support ticket so the developers can measure it on their heat graph?

 
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We don’t intend to reward whining, however, we do take all player feedback into consideration. While Support can deal with in game and technical issues, if you’re looking to express or discuss your opinions on a particular mechanic or feature, you are more than welcome to use to Feedback thread.

 
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Oh yeah, you love feedback so much… always you listen to your customers! Oh, wait…

 
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I prefer not to, Pebbles, now that I understand how your “heat tracking” approach works. I prefer to complain publicly here rather than take a quiet DM buyoff from NoG via support. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on Kongregate.