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Wartune: No Multiplayer - Tanks are Underpowered (No Longer Resolved) (locked)

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[Edit by Author: They have reduced the amount of multiplayer attempts to 3, further concreting that this game is useless to anyone that wants to play an MMO.]

[Edit by Author: Instead they make it clear that this game is meant to be a bunch of single-player games that cross-over in the form of PvP but no way to have actual teamwork with anyone on this game which is sad.]

The only part of this game that could be considered an MMORPG by any imagination is the Hall of Heroes in which you can band together as a team of 4 players and complete what they refer to as an instance. This idea is very good and was very interesting to me when I first started.

I was so interested to see how it would be implemented because this is the cornerstone that makes an MMORPG an MMORPG. At first it turned out to be very linear, where I walk around, grab a few items laying about and fight monsters which is fairly traditional.

What turned out to be was that the instances have absolutely in no way, shape or form any kind of complicated strategy or short-term decision making that plays into the long-term making every single part of this easy to finish, a meaningless grind, hard to enjoy, most of all taking as short as 7 minutes to complete.

They further compound this design failure with only 5 chances to participate in their multiplayer system with absolutely no way (even with real money) to participate in the Hall of Heroes again. The only way is to wait for 24 hours from the last server day reset.

The rest of the game is composed of:

1. Single-Player Instances in which you monotonously grind a dungeon 5 times in complete boredom while knowing all the well that you are not going to get any valuable gear for your efforts.

2. A Farmville clone that allows players to farm for friends in order to give them and yourself in-game rewards after they plant a “seed” which returns rewards hours later.

3. A quest hunt with a series of mini-games and more to add to the monotonous grinding from the Single-Player Instances.

4. A World Boss Event in which you play as in a single-player fashion and all the damage you do is just added together with all the other players. Not even a system to work together with a group in this. You get killed nearly instantly, then in 30 seconds you revive and fight it again. No more complicated that a pinball high score table.

5. A duel system that is used to allow you to compete with other players to earn your ranking in Wartune.

6. An imbalanced Arena Team system that matches you up with other players within 4 seconds, throwing any kind of matchmaking out the window as it seems to just join together as soon as another team queues for arena. Within 4 seconds there is absolutely no time for a true matchmaking profile to be workable with a game such as this.

It seems to be that this game has forgotten what an MMORPG is about. An MMORPG is about the kinship that you share with your fellow friends and players and your effort to work together in order to increase your power.

I had very high hopes for this game and I was absolutely fascinated at first until the features of the game became apparent and thus it became obvious that there was absolutely no focus on multiplayer, just finding interesting ways to juice players of all the money they can before the game becomes obsolete.

 
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The part of this game which is most bothersome to me is when there is a selection of 3 classes which offer great difference from each other. As soon as you go to start the game you have the choice of:

1. The Mage has capacity of doing magic damage and is more focused towards Area of Effect damage against numerous enemies.

2. The Knight does physical damage but is more focused on having large amounts of health and armor and thus would be considered the tank. This is the character I had chosen.

3. The Archer does physical damage in a multiplier of 2x and is focused on single-target damage and as such ends up doing the most damage out of any of the characters in the game.

Naturally for me the Knight was my choice. When I play MMORPGs I love to play roles of great necessity such as healing or tanking. Moreso I prefer healing but I figured that healing in this game would not have any significant impact on fights.

As I played my knight I learned that knights were the most useless class in the game and get significantly less rewards than others simply because they do not do damage and the true multiplayer of this game of which I chose the Knight for was limited to 5 attempts per day.

Obviously I looked for a change character button, there was none! I looked for a reset button, there was none! I then looked for a way to pay to change my class from Knight to Archer and again there was none so I was stuck. Absolutely no way to change your character after you have chosen it.

I sucked it up and played up until level 30, discovering that I was wasting all my time because every single thing pointed to the situation that they had no intention to implement true multiplayer to begin with, rendering my character completely useless. I tried talking to a GM about it and ended up getting the response “well you get 5 attempts per day”.

It is just so sad, why design a game with everything that it needs to have perfect character differentiation when you know that you have no intention to make the game useful in multiplayer to begin with?

 
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I’ll answer each of your points.

Originally posted by Sodaen:

The only part of this game that could be considered an MMORPG by any imagination is the Hall of Heroes in which you can band together as a team of 4 players and complete what they refer to as an instance. This idea is very good and was very interesting to me when I first started.

I believe there’s a hybrid going on here – your reference to MMOs in general is only one point to consider. Maybe not everyone who plays an MMO wants everything to be centered around multiplayer?

Originally posted by Sodaen:

I was so interested to see how it would be implemented because this is the cornerstone that makes an MMORPG an MMORPG. At first it turned out to be very linear, where I walk around, grab a few items laying about and fight monsters which is fairly traditional.

What turned out to be was that the instances have absolutely in no way, shape or form any kind of complicated strategy or short-term decision making that plays into the long-term making every single part of this easy to finish, a meaningless grind, hard to enjoy, most of all taking as short as 7 minutes to complete.

Yes, the single-player instances are likely designed short, considering all the game facets to play. As you level, the time required to complete single-player instances will lengthen, I assure you. Multiplayer should require double the time – more if you cannot find suitable teammates.

Originally posted by Sodaen:

They further compound this design failure with only 5 chances to participate in their multiplayer system with absolutely no way (even with real money) to participate in the Hall of Heroes again. The only way is to wait for 24 hours from the last server day reset.

The issue here is that multiplayer instances give quite a bit more experience – upward to five or six times that of single-player. Since it takes awhile, every day, to drudge through five multiplayer instances – I believe it is being reduced to three – with a suitable increase in experience. I find this to be refreshing and to be able to focus on other parts of the game.

Originally posted by Sodaen:

The rest of the game is composed of:

1. Single-Player Instances in which you monotonously grind a dungeon 5 times in complete boredom while knowing all the well that you are not going to get any valuable gear for your efforts.

You can perform this “grind” five times per day normally (and that is if you desire to) but resting at the Altar you can perform an additional three. It is also possible, albeit rarely, to obtain crystalloids used to synthesize PvE gear.

Originally posted by Sodaen:

2. A Farmville clone that allows players to farm for friends in order to give them and yourself in-game rewards after they plant a “seed” which returns rewards hours later.

…And this is negative how? Granted, a majority of “friends” will be nothing more than seed surrogates, per se, but you never know – you may just strike up conversations with complete strangers.

Originally posted by Sodaen:

3. A quest hunt with a series of mini-games and more to add to the monotonous grinding from the Single-Player Instances.

…Again, what’s the issue here? Variety helps in anything that gets repetitive.

Originally posted by Sodaen:

4. A World Boss Event in which you play as in a single-player fashion and all the damage you do is just added together with all the other players. Not even a system to work together with a group in this. You get killed nearly instantly, then in 30 seconds you revive and fight it again. No more complicated that a pinball high score table.

Many MMOs have this concept… and it certainly is not as simple as “a pinball high score table”. First, pinball machines require skill to amass high scores. Second, if you care to maximize your damage output, you should consider the skills you use as not every combination is the ideal one. Your other point is fair – maybe in a future expansion, a team can face off against a tougher boss – though in this current patch, understand that the Heroic mode to dungeons will be added. You could accept that as a substitute.

Originally posted by Sodaen:

5. A duel system that is used to allow you to compete with other players to earn your ranking in Wartune.

I enjoy dueling as it allows me to see how I fare against almost anyone else. You are also free to see if your opponent spent cash on the game and if your upcoming fight is handicapped in your favor or not. I will state though, some of the upper prizes seem to support a vicious cycle but again, a few MMOs come to mind that abide by this scheme.

Originally posted by Sodaen:

6. An imbalanced Arena Team system that matches you up with other players within 4 seconds, throwing any kind of matchmaking out the window as it seems to just join together as soon as another team queues for arena. Within 4 seconds there is absolutely no time for a true matchmaking profile to be workable with a game such as this.

This certainly is not correct. As it stands, the consensus believes (reinforced by a few GMs) that the Group Arena matches based on average level. It has been seen that some matches are grossly unfair – and this algorithm is being reviewed – as some cashed/Balen’ed players have a marked advantage.

Originally posted by Sodaen:

It seems to be that this game has forgotten what an MMORPG is about. An MMORPG is about the kinship that you share with your fellow friends and players and your effort to work together in order to increase your power.

How so? There are game functions called “guild” and “friends”. Try it out. Send them an in-game PM too. Problem solved.

Originally posted by Sodaen:

I had very high hopes for this game and I was absolutely fascinated at first until the features of the game became apparent and thus it became obvious that there was absolutely no focus on multiplayer, just finding interesting ways to juice players of all the money they can before the game becomes obsolete.

No focus on multiplayer? Surely you jest. Multiplayer instances are one essence of the multiplayer idea. Interacting with a friend’s farm is another. PMing friends or random players is yet another. Cannot agree with you there.

 
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KnowingEyes I appreciate your comments very much. It is nice to see you keep such a level head while responding. In fact it is heart warming!

I made a second post that is more focused towards my concerns that Knights are completely useless in light of the lack of multiplayer dungeons in this game. My intention was to pick a Knight in order to tank for other people and to fill a very valuable role to others. Could you please elaborate on my second post and I will respond to you!

Perhaps we can have a really good discussion about the game. You have to feel my pain when I go to these World Boss Events and see how completely useless that Mages and Knights are in comparison to Archers which also would gain the greatest of rewards simply because of their sheer damage as well as a higher statistical chance to get the Last Hit Bonus as well as the Most Damage Dealt Bonus. Tanking also has 0 value in this even if there is a reward for withstanding the most damage.

If you can discuss the situation of imbalanced characters as a result of there being a lack of multiplayer instances then I will restore the game’s rating to 5 stars because that will mean that you obviously care about the state of the game and wish to make this game great!

 
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Ahem, there is a skilled called ‘Reverse Damage’. It would help out quite a bit as you can easily poke your opponent with it.

 
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From what I’ve heard, archers seem overpowered now because they truly shine in the early game, which is where everybody is at right now. In the late-game, I believe mages and knights will be arguably better in all forms of battle (PvE, PvP, arena), but for now we have to settle with being dominated by archers, as sad as it is.

And the above mentions a very good point, stick Reverse Damage on, and archers will pretty much kill themselves while trying to kill you. Couple it with Agoran Shield (With a lot of hero health), and you’ll be a damage+tank machine for the next 3 turns.

 
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Originally posted by Wsed:

Ahem, there is a skilled called ‘Reverse Damage’. It would help out quite a bit as you can easily poke your opponent with it.

I do agree, that skill is very strong and I have learned of its sheer power but my problem is how good Archers are at doing everything!

The other two sacrifice so much in order for them to be valuable at only specific parts of the game.

If I were an Archer I would be able to do all things very well!

 
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Originally posted by End_Of_Ends:

From what I’ve heard, archers seem overpowered now because they truly shine in the early game, which is where everybody is at right now. In the late-game, I believe mages and knights will be arguably better in all forms of battle (PvE, PvP, arena), but for now we have to settle with being dominated by archers, as sad as it is.

And the above mentions a very good point, stick Reverse Damage on, and archers will pretty much kill themselves while trying to kill you. Couple it with Agoran Shield (With a lot of hero health), and you’ll be a damage+tank machine for the next 3 turns.

Archers tend to die out at later levels, but they are a bit OP at early levels.

 
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Originally posted by End_Of_Ends:

From what I’ve heard, archers seem overpowered now because they truly shine in the early game, which is where everybody is at right now. In the late-game, I believe mages and knights will be arguably better in all forms of battle (PvE, PvP, arena), but for now we have to settle with being dominated by archers, as sad as it is.

And the above mentions a very good point, stick Reverse Damage on, and archers will pretty much kill themselves while trying to kill you. Couple it with Agoran Shield (With a lot of hero health), and you’ll be a damage+tank machine for the next 3 turns.

Perhaps you are right. Maybe I need to return to this forum post when I reach level 40. Maybe I will see that Archers do truly fall off.

Still, seeing the World Boss Event and the damage sheets I know that they are making tons more gold and daru than I am. I think it is unfair for me to be penalized for being a damageless Knight.

 
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Originally posted by Sodaen:
Originally posted by End_Of_Ends:

From what I’ve heard, archers seem overpowered now because they truly shine in the early game, which is where everybody is at right now. In the late-game, I believe mages and knights will be arguably better in all forms of battle (PvE, PvP, arena), but for now we have to settle with being dominated by archers, as sad as it is.

And the above mentions a very good point, stick Reverse Damage on, and archers will pretty much kill themselves while trying to kill you. Couple it with Agoran Shield (With a lot of hero health), and you’ll be a damage+tank machine for the next 3 turns.

Perhaps you are right. Maybe I need to return to this forum when I reach level 40. Maybe I will see that Archers do truly fall off but looking at the World Boss Event and the damage sheets I know that they are making tons more gold and daru than I am. I think it is unfair for me to be penalized for being a damageless Knight.

Of course there is an option in resetting your skills if you dislike your current build.

 
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I modified the title of this thread to keep on point.

By no means am I an expert – however I do have to yield the fact that, at the world bosses, archers enjoy a maximized damage per encounter over mages and knights. At battlegrounds, it seems that day a knight is an MVP is the day hell freezes over.

From what I read on official, the last two areas (and granted that is light years away for most player) allegedly require a tank to proceed – no matter how Balen’ed a character is. This hopefully proves, in the future, to be true.

I do hope that sometime knights are given something to remain competitive in WB/BG. I can dress up my tank with as much crit and damage increase as I want – but at the end of the day, it’s multi-hit skills/spells that rule the field. Oh well. Knights in MMOs always did get a bit of the shaft. :P

 
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By the way, this link shows the pros and cons of each class.

http://forum.r2games.com/showthread.php?31944-Guide-Picking-your-player

^ It also mentions that archers are early game, mages are balanced between early and late game, and knights truly shine in the late game. So keep playing your knight, and you’ll eventually love your decision! =) I’m a knight as well, by the way.

 
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Originally posted by Sodaen:

Still, seeing the World Boss Event and the damage sheets I know that they are making tons more gold and daru than I am. I think it is unfair for me to be penalized for being a damageless Knight.

This is the key. If archers are a bit OP early on, they are certainly amassing tons of Daru – moreso than the knight. This starts another vicious cycle of, “can the knight catch up in level of troops”? Maybe I’m missing something here as well.

 
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Originally posted by KnowingEyes:

I modified the title of this thread to keep on point.

By no means am I an expert – however I do have to yield the fact that, at the world bosses, archers enjoy a maximized damage per encounter over mages and knights. At battlegrounds, it seems that day a knight is an MVP is the day hell freezes over.

From what I read on official, the last two areas (and granted that is light years away for most player) allegedly require a tank to proceed – no matter how Balen’ed a character is. This hopefully proves, in the future, to be true.

I do hope that sometime knights are given something to remain competitive in WB/BG. I can dress up my tank with as much crit and damage increase as I want – but at the end of the day, it’s multi-hit skills/spells that rule the field. Oh well. Knights in MMOs always did get a bit of the shaft. :P

Good man, such a good and honest response! So you understand my concerns and that is all I really care about. I just want it to be understood that it sucks being a knight for me right now. Perhaps in time I will see that Knights really do bring something to the table that no one else can and that would be satisfying.

I was looking for a way to word the topic to include the fact that it was mostly an issue with the characters and how they are balanced around the game but I couldn’t figure it out so I just left it. Thank you for that!

Originally posted by KnowingEyes:

This is the key. If archers are a bit OP early on, they are certainly amassing tons of Daru – moreso than the knight. This starts another vicious cycle of, “can the knight catch up in level of troops”? Maybe I’m missing something here as well.

I can see that. I do note that one Knight shines to the extent of being top 3 in the World Boss Event encounters. The hope that I had held all the way until being now level 30 was that perhaps when I get tanky enough I will be able to withstand enough blows that I will be able to deal large amounts of damage before I die.

I notice that the levels of the players in this game are still relatively low so I am willing to consider that perhaps in time the meta will shift as levels grow and I thank you for your time to post back to me.

The information is massively appreciated and I am sorry for causing such a big fuss!

 
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Originally posted by End_Of_Ends:

By the way, this link shows the pros and cons of each class.

http://forum.r2games.com/showthread.php?31944-Guide-Picking-your-player

^ It also mentions that archers are early game, mages are balanced between early and late game, and knights truly shine in the late game. So keep playing your knight, and you’ll eventually love your decision! =) I’m a knight as well, by the way.

Thank you so very much for this information. It really is so valuable to know the things that are said on here. I just wish it was formatted like this on the Wartune Wiki!

It is bookmarked and I promise I will be consulting this later. Thanks man!

 
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One multiplayer aspect of the game you didn’t mention is battlegrounds. They are in my opinion the most fun single activity in the game. I wish they would do a little more with them.

 
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you might think knights are under powered wait untill you do level 50 dgn garden of death that requires a good tank it doesnt matter if your superspender mage or archer you will need a KNIGHT or even 2 a tank and dps.
as for world boss you will see the difference as you level and fix your astros and guild skills archers and mages might still out damage you but the gap is way less my level 52 non casher knight is always in top 30 even with 200 players on world boss because my ultimate slasher does 13k yes 13k and i avergae 23k gold just by afking if i did it myself im sure i can almost be in top 10

 
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Originally posted by Toggler:

One multiplayer aspect of the game you didn’t mention is battlegrounds. They are in my opinion the most fun single activity in the game. I wish they would do a little more with them.

I honestly haven’t got to try it yet so I am curious. I haven’t participated in Battlegrounds because I had some fear that it would end up somewhat like Arena has worked out for me. I’ll give it a shot next time I can.

 
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Originally posted by R2Fortisking:

you might think knights are under powered wait untill you do level 50 dgn garden of death that requires a good tank it doesnt matter if your superspender mage or archer you will need a KNIGHT or even 2 a tank and dps.
as for world boss you will see the difference as you level and fix your astros and guild skills archers and mages might still out damage you but the gap is way less my level 52 non casher knight is always in top 30 even with 200 players on world boss because my ultimate slasher does 13k yes 13k and i avergae 23k gold just by afking if i did it myself im sure i can almost be in top 10

That is a holy shitload of damage man. I want to work hard on making my character very strong so that I can become very valuable to the people in my guild (Fate) who I have come to respect and enjoy so very much.

It is good to know that all is not for waste and I appreciate being corrected when I deem the information valid and in this case I find the information extremely valid. I appreciate everyone’s willingness to inform me of their perspective on things so that I can take it into account and I have a new found respect for this game and everyone here.

You know that you could have just as easily locked my post but you had taken the time to explain your thoughts and as such the rating is restored to 5 where it belongs! Thank you!

 
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Did they pay you off?

 
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Originally posted by Liquid_Glass:

Did they pay you off?

It sure as hell seems like it but the reality is after seeing what the people were saying I thought I may have jumped the gun a little. It appears to me that they really want to make the game good and even though I support a way to change your character by some method I just feel like they in fact do care about making the game fair and enjoyable to everyone.

I need more time to figure out if perhaps Knights do become extremely powerful. I just know in my present state it is a let down to be outperformed by other characters so largely. Still I believe what they say and I think when I get my levels up higher I will notice an increase in my overall strength in comparison to others.

Only thing to do is wait and see!

 
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The only issue I have with knights is that tanking in the game – while necessary – is unfairly costly. If you’re a knight, you’re always in the front row, but there’s no benefit to the tank for tanking. There’s actually more of a cost to you in gold, in that the more you’re hit, the more HP pack potions you have to pay for that the other classes don’t. I know archers and mages at 40 that haven’t had to buy HP at all yet, while I’m constantly being put at the front and draining gold to keep it up. It’s only a bit at a time, but it adds up over 40+ levels and as is, knights have to pay more gold than anybody else to keep up their role in PvE parties.

I don’t know how this could be resolved, though. Maybe rage-gain-on-hit for all classes? Even if it’s just 1 rage per hit, that could add up to a lot eventually (especially those 6-mob multi-hit PvE battles where knights herp around hitting one target at a time to gain rage while others multi-hit or aoe) and give some benefit to being on the front lines in PvE/being able to take lots of hits in PvP.

 
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Originally posted by atreylune:

The only issue I have with knights is that tanking in the game – while necessary – is unfairly costly. If you’re a knight, you’re always in the front row, but there’s no benefit to the tank for tanking. There’s actually more of a cost to you in gold, in that the more you’re hit, the more HP pack potions you have to pay for that the other classes don’t. I know archers and mages at 40 that haven’t had to buy HP at all yet, while I’m constantly being put at the front and draining gold to keep it up. It’s only a bit at a time, but it adds up over 40+ levels and as is, knights have to pay more gold than anybody else to keep up their role in PvE parties.

I don’t know how this could be resolved, though. Maybe rage-gain-on-hit for all classes? Even if it’s just 1 rage per hit, that could add up to a lot eventually (especially those 6-mob multi-hit PvE battles where knights herp around hitting one target at a time to gain rage while others multi-hit or aoe) and give some benefit to being on the front lines in PvE/being able to take lots of hits in PvP.

This. I don’t believe this has been considered as I as well am struggling to make do with HP packs. Every day I hear other classes in chat stating, “HP remaining: 3 million plus”. Sigh.

 
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^agreed

 
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Amount of Multiplayer Attempts has been reduced to 3 in the maintenance patch, further compounding the uselessness of this game for anyone that wants to have teamwork with other players. I assume that means that this game wants to kill itself and become worthless to everyone that wanted any kind of MMO experience.

I was interested in playing the game again but I see that it is just getting worse. I believe that if there was any intention to make this game multiplayer then within the same patch they reduce the number of multiplayer attempts to 3, they would institute another way to have teamwork with other players.

The staff clearly wants this game to be some randomized single-player into PvP game which is just sickening to me and that is not what I want by any fashion!