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Talent System Discussion

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What do you level 50+ players think of the talents? Which passives and actives are interesting to you? Will you dump your excess EXP and gold here and forsake leveling or do you weather the storm and risk getting stunned – but continuing your character level?

Place any complements, gripes, suggestions and general discourse here.

UPDATE: There is an issue with the talent resets. The cost is NOT 200 vouchers/Balens. It seems to be 895.

UPDATE #2: There could be an issue with the Warrior’s Call buff (Covenant) working in PvP scenarios. This is being reviewed.


Archers:

Originally posted by Silverfire:

1. Instinct – BT shot time – 7 seconds, +5% damage – If BT shot was worth anything in the first place, this might be useful. (They need to fix the healing first)
2. Retribution – Delphic Death star shot time -5 seconds +5% crit. – Death star is absurdly expensive anyway, killing any rage you got without needing to rune, and good luck using it multiple times a battle.
3. Scrutiny – Arrow strike chance to increase crit damage by 10% – Might be viable, depending on the chance, is it worth buying? maybe, maybe not.
4. Enrage – Armor piercer – 5% chance to make next attack crit. – Potential yes, useful, not really, people don’t roll natural 20%‘s that often, maybe at higher ranks it can get to a point that it’s useful, but that’ll be extremely expensive.k
5. Potency – Multi shot – 7% chance of halving Armor Piercer’s rage cost 2 turns – Don’t know, won’t have a build with both skills until mid 60’s.
6. Insight – Incen shot -7 seconds – Never really seen incen shot used, potentially useful with pve gear (insert rant on how pve gear takes too long to get)
7. Fury – Lunatic Fire -5 seconds, chance on boosting crit rate by 3% two turns – This is the best choice for archers from what i see of their skills, although it implies you are down that tree and not the debuff tree.


Mages:

Originally posted by kyoghin:
Barrier Lvl. 1
Damage received decreases by 5%.
Awaken Lvl. 1
Rain of Fire has a 5% chance of decreasing Rage consumption of Delphic Thunder Frenzy by 50%; last 2 rounds.
Callousness Lvl. 1
Shortens Delphic Hell Thunder cooldown time by 10 seconds and has a chance to form a damage absorption shield; lasts 3 rounds. Max damage absorption amount equals 5% of Max HP.
Focus Lvl. 1
Lighting Bolt has a 5% chance of decreasing your Rage consumption by 50%; lasts 2 rounds.
Redemption Lvl. 1
Shortens Blessed Light cooldown time by 5 seconds.
Misfortune Lvl. 1
Shortens Damnation cooldown time by 7 seconds and increases damage by 10%.
Survival Lvl. 1
Increases cooldown time for X seconds, increases healing amount by 20%, and has a chance to restore the target’s rage by 10 points.
Note: As far as I know, this only affects Restoration, increasing the cooldown by 5 seconds on level 1.
Momentum Lvl. 1
Shortens Meteoric Destroyer cooldown time by 3 seconds and has a chance to restoring 1% of Max HP.

Knights:

Originally posted by KnowingEyes:

Iron Wall – Damage received decreases by 5%.
Meditation – Intercept has a chance of restoring 5% of your HP.
Waterseal – Shortens Enhanced Delphic Destroyer cooldown time by 5 seconds.
Tyranny – Slasher has a chance to increase your skill damage by 3%; lasts 2 rounds.
Deliverance – Shadow Thrasher has a chance to decrease damage received by 5%; lasts 3 rounds.
Second Wind – Increases Ultimate Slash rage consumption by 1 point; increases damage by 3%.
Persistence – Has a chance to reflect 10% damage with a successful block.
Puncture – Shortens Whirlwind cooldown time by 5 seconds and has a chance to cause a bleeding effect which deals 20% physical damage; lasts 3 rounds.

For giggles, here is what we have so far:

  • Must have level 5 holy seal before learning/allocating points to other passives @ rank/level 1; level 15 for rank/level 2 passives.
  • Stun will not kick in if your holy seal is less than your opponent’s.
  • The number of stun rounds can be as few as 0 or as many as 3 – weighted to 0 or 1.
  • The sixth hotkey is (finally) unlocked – reserved for a talent: Holy Seal.
  • Though you lose any EXP/gold the moment you invest, you can reset your allocated points (in effect, nothing should be lost).
  • There is a little bit of mislabeling on a couple skills.

Gold and EXP consumed for the first few levels allegedly follows this table:

Originally posted by KnowingEyes:
Originally posted by Atombender:

Thanks.

Even though it would require an obscene amount of Exp, is there a cap on Talents and do the stats increase across the board like Astrals (Lv 1 = 5%, Lv 2 = 10% etc.)? Surely can’t allow Knights to build up a 50% damage reduction from Lv 10 Iron Will (though I don’t know if that’s mathematically possible, given the required amount of Exp and the fact that you can’t drop down a level. But maybe Lv 80’s can hoard Exp)

Around level 32 in talents will force level 70 players to truly level. Since the character levels past this jump significantly in terms of XP, it may come down to the talent level cannot be higher than character level.

I’m wrong.

Talent XP increase per level slows down.

Gold and EXP consumed for the first few levels allegedly follows this table:

Level 01: 0K; 0M
Level 02: 20K; 1M
Level 03: 22K; 1.5M
Level 04: 40K; 2M
Level 05: 54K; 2.7M
Level 06: 70K; 3.5M
Level 07: 90K; 4.5M
Level 08: 110K; 5.5M
Level 09: 140K; 7M
Level 10: 180K; 9M
Level 11: 240K; 12M
Level 12: 300K; 15M
Level 13: 360K; 18M
Level 14: 420K; 21M
Level 15: 480K; 24M
Level 16: 540K; 27M
Level 17: 600K; 30M
Level 18: 660K; 33M
Level 19: 720K; 36M
Level 20: 780K; 39M
Level 21: 800K; 40M
Level 22: 810K; 40.5M
Level 23: 820K; 41.0M
Level 24: 830K; 41.5M
Level 25: 840K; 42.0M
Level 26: 850K; 42.5M
Level 27: 860K; 43.0M
Level 28: 870K; 43.5M
Level 29: 880K; 44.0M
Level 30: 890K; 44.5M
Level 31: 900K; 45.0M
Level 32: 902K; 45.1M
Level 33: 904K; 45.2M
Level 34: 906K; 45.3M
Level 35: 908K; 45.4M
Level 36: 910K; 45.5M
Level 37: 912K; 45.6M
Level 38: 914K; 45.7M
Level 39: 916K; 45.8M
Level 40: 920K; 46M
Level 41: 922K; 46.1M
Level 42: 924K; 46.2M
Level 43: 926K; 46.3M
Level 44: 928K; 46.4M

 
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They released what each one is? I must have missed this, link me please.

 
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I am surprised they seem to have done fairly good with this, it doesn’t seem to have a huge, if any at all, effect on cashiers vs non cashier.

 
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I’m level 59 and rushing hard to 60 in order to be of most use in MPD runs. So stun away, folks, while I get to 60. But once I’m there, I’m dumping nearly all exp and gold into this until new equipment sets come out.

~Pernilla

 
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Agree Juggalo…EXP is pretty limited and there aren’t easy ways to get more. This will definitely make BGs and both solo/MP arenas a LOT more interesting. I love the implicit tradeoff between leveling and gaining more “stealth BR”.

 
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hmm, cashier can easily get twice amount of exp per day than non-cashier… for sure there wont be any effect… :)

 
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Seems to be lvl 15 holy seal for lv 2 passives

 
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Originally posted by Sisel:

hmm, cashier can easily get twice amount of exp per day than non-cashier… for sure there wont be any effect… :)

The only thing a cashier can do is buy 100% scrolls for 50% more exp, it’s a very small amount really.

 
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There is also the not so insignificant vip bonus :)

 
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Originally posted by JuggaloMole:
Originally posted by Sisel:

hmm, cashier can easily get twice amount of exp per day than non-cashier… for sure there wont be any effect… :)

The only thing a cashier can do is buy 100% scrolls for 50% more exp, it’s a very small amount really.

well scroll is not the only thing. VIP+scrolls = 150-250% more exp in mp/sp. non-casher can have just 50% for one hour per day. So difference is big ;) + reseting bounties to get just orange bounties is also another difference. For rest bonuses they have similiar options. And i didnt saw any non-casher to have 15M exp per day with lvl around 60.

 
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Think i’ll go for lv 7 or 8 then continue leveling, not a good stopping point yet, and 65 mp should give more xp :)

 
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Originally posted by JuggaloMole:
Originally posted by Sisel:

hmm, cashier can easily get twice amount of exp per day than non-cashier… for sure there wont be any effect… :)

The only thing a cashier can do is buy 100% scrolls for 50% more exp, it’s a very small amount really.

I can assume Juggalo is VIP 6 if he thinks 100% scrolls is just 50% more exp.

 
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Originally posted by YbrikIkus09:

Originally posted by Sisel:
hmm, cashier can easily get twice amount of exp per day than non-cashier… for sure there wont be any effect… :)

The only thing a cashier can do is buy 100% scrolls for 50% more exp, it’s a very small amount really

I can assume Juggalo is VIP 6 if he thinks 100% scrolls is just 50% more exp.

100% scrolls is 50% more xp bonus than 50% scrolls ^^

 
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Originally posted by KnowingEyes:

All Box Contents:

King’s Bounty:
Open to randomly receive 5,000,000 or 8,000,000 Gold, 3,000,000 or 5,000,000 Daru, and one of following items:

  • 999 Roses x 2
  • Soul Crystal x 1500
  • Skeleton Keys x 100
  • 1,000,000 Kyanite
  • Enhanced Bounty Scrolls x 10

What do u guys think about this?

Is it “5mil or 8mil Gold” PLUS “3mil or 5mil Daru” OR “5mil or 8mil Gold or 3mil or 5mil Daru” ?

The way the english sentence is written, i think it’s a, b, c , and d.
or x or y, k or z, and e
So in my opinion, it’s Gold, Daru and stuffs.
Gosh that’s a lot of stuffs.

 
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Originally posted by YbrikIkus09:
Originally posted by KnowingEyes:

All Box Contents:

King’s Bounty:
Open to randomly receive 5,000,000 or 8,000,000 Gold, 3,000,000 or 5,000,000 Daru, and one of following items:

  • 999 Roses x 2
  • Soul Crystal x 1500
  • Skeleton Keys x 100
  • 1,000,000 Kyanite
  • Enhanced Bounty Scrolls x 10


What do u guys think about this?


Is it “5mil or 8mil Gold” PLUS “3mil or 5mil Daru” OR “5mil or 8mil Gold or 3mil or 5mil Daru” ?


The way the english sentence is written, i think it’s a, b, c , and d.
or x or y, k or z, and e
So in my opinion, it’s Gold, Daru and stuffs.
Gosh that’s a lot of stuffs.

How is this related to talents (or its components)?

 
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Kinda depressed at the talent system really, at least for archers. Beyond seal and damage reduction.

1. Instinct – BT shot time – 7 seconds, +5% damage – If BT shot was worth anything in the first place, this might be useful. (They need to fix the healing first)
2. Retribution – Delphic Death star shot time -5 seconds +5% crit. – Death star is absurdly expensive anyway, killing any rage you got without needing to rune, and good luck using it multiple times a battle.
3. Scrutiny – Arrow strike chance to increase crit damage by 10% – Might be viable, depending on the chance, is it worth buying? maybe, maybe not.
4. Enrage – Armor piercer – 5% chance to make next attack crit. – Potential yes, useful, not really, people don’t roll natural 20%‘s that often, maybe at higher ranks it can get to a point that it’s useful, but that’ll be extremely expensive.k
5. Potency – Multi shot – 7% chance of halving Armor Piercer’s rage cost 2 turns – Don’t know, won’t have a build with both skills until mid 60’s.
6. Insight – Incen shot -7 seconds – Never really seen incen shot used, potentially useful with pve gear (insert rant on how pve gear takes too long to get)
7. Fury – Lunatic Fire -5 seconds, chance on boosting crit rate by 3% two turns – This is the best choice for archers from what i see of their skills, although it implies you are down that tree and not the debuff tree.

I’d like to hear a list of the other classes talents as well.

 
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Originally posted by Silverfire:

Kinda depressed at the talent system really, at least for archers. Beyond seal and damage reduction.

1. Instinct – BT shot time – 7 seconds, +5% damage – If BT shot was worth anything in the first place, this might be useful. (They need to fix the healing first)
2. Retribution – Delphic Death star shot time -5 seconds +5% crit. – Death star is absurdly expensive anyway, killing any rage you got without needing to rune, and good luck using it multiple times a battle.
3. Scrutiny – Arrow strike chance to increase crit damage by 10% – Might be viable, depending on the chance, is it worth buying? maybe, maybe not.
4. Enrage – Armor piercer – 5% chance to make next attack crit. – Potential yes, useful, not really, people don’t roll natural 20%‘s that often, maybe at higher ranks it can get to a point that it’s useful, but that’ll be extremely expensive.k
5. Potency – Multi shot – 7% chance of halving Armor Piercer’s rage cost 2 turns – Don’t know, won’t have a build with both skills until mid 60’s.
6. Insight – Incen shot -7 seconds – Never really seen incen shot used, potentially useful with pve gear (insert rant on how pve gear takes too long to get)
7. Fury – Lunatic Fire -5 seconds, chance on boosting crit rate by 3% two turns – This is the best choice for archers from what i see of their skills, although it implies you are down that tree and not the debuff tree.

I’d like to hear a list of the other classes talents as well.

8. Stealth – Damage received decreases by 5%

Is number 8 constant?

 
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I didn’t bring that up em1nem, because everyone has that talent in one name or another.

 
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Mage Talents

Barrier Lvl. 1
Damage received decreases by 5%.

Lvl. 2
Reduction: 6%.



Awaken Lvl. 1
Rain of Fire has a 5% chance of decreasing Rage consumption of Delphic Thunder Frenzy by 50%; last 2 rounds.



Callousness Lvl. 1
Shortens Delphic Hell Thunder cooldown time by 10 seconds and has a chance to form a damage absorption shield; lasts 3 rounds. Max damage absorption amount equals 5% of Max HP.



Focus Lvl. 1
Lighting Bolt has a 5% chance of decreasing your Rage consumption by 50%; lasts 2 rounds.

Lvl. 2
Chance: 6%



Redemption Lvl. 1
Shortens Blessed Light cooldown time by 5 seconds.



Misfortune Lvl. 1
Shortens Damnation cooldown time by 7 seconds and increases damage by 10%.

Lvl. 2
Cooldown: 10 seconds Damage: 20%.



Survival Lvl. 1
Increases cooldown time for X seconds, increases healing amount by 20%, and has a chance to restore the target’s rage by 10 points.

Lvl. 2
Healing Amount: 25%.

Note: As far as I know, this only affects Restoration, increasing the cooldown by 5 seconds at level 1. I can only assume the cooldown increases as you level it up.



Momentum Lvl. 1
Shortens Meteoric Destroyer cooldown time by 3 seconds and has a chance to restoring 1% of Max HP.

 
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Knight Talents:

Iron Wall – Damage received decreases by 5%.
Meditation – Intercept has a chance of restoring 5% of your HP.
Waterseal – Shortens Enhanced Delphic Destroyer cooldown time by 5 seconds.
Tyranny – Slasher has a chance to increase your skill damage by 3%; lasts 2 rounds.
Deliverance – Shadow Thrasher has a chance to decrease damage received by 5%; lasts 3 rounds.
Second Wind – Increases Ultimate Slash rage consumption by 1 point; increases damage by 3%.
Persistence – Has a chance to reflect 10% damage with a successful block.
Puncture – Shortens Whirlwind cooldown time by 5 seconds and has a chance to cause a bleeding effect which deals 20% physical damage; lasts 3 rounds.

 
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Other than damage reduction for mages (it seems pathetic anyway when compared to goddess blessing which is not much less pathetic), I can’t see how the other passive talents (I assume they are all passive since only Seal appears in the talent hotkey spot and it can’t seem to be changed) really help.

For example, I won’t even want to add e.g. Survival. If I can afford to use Seal to power up my single-heal restoration and suffer the cooldown increase, I might as well wait a little to use group-heal blessed light. Survival may be useful under some circumstances but I don’t foresee it as being something essential enough to tip the balance.

The rage reduction ones have low probability of occurring and they don’t make me jump around in excitement. Again, they might help like castinator but I don’t think they are important enough to rush to get them. Damnation may be useful for those mages who use this skill. Otherwise… the rest of the talents don’t even involve skills generally used by mages.

Of course, some of these talents may become more useful as you spend massive exp to lvl them. But for now, at first look and preliminary testing, only Seal per se is something worthwhile, particularly for pvp if you have a higher Seal lvl than your opponent (I managed to worm my way to #6 in duels). So if we compare with other classes, mages are indeed very shortchanged as a class by this talent system.

I have read that knights will become overpowered (not sure how true) because of talents and archers seem to be having a lot of complaints. So let’s see… before this patch, archers were way too fast and overpowered. Now after this patch, knights get the cake. I am not complaining here but it would be nice for a patch in the near future to give mages a boost. After all, we have to keep tweaking till we reach that elusive balance.

EDIT: I wrote the above under the (erroneous, I was told) impression that passive talents still need to be activated by Seal which was why I thought little of most of them. If they are indeed always-on passives that do not require activation with the use of Seal, then I count at least 4 passives I would want to add to.

 
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I agree. For knights though, it’s the same bag. Skip all talents and “seal it up”. Why mess with any of them if seal can give you an extra 100%/200%/300% damage if your seal level is higher than your opponent?

Insofar as balance, you pesky mages and archers still destroy at world boss. :P

 
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Originally posted by KnowingEyes:

I agree. For knights though, it’s the same bag. Skip all talents and “seal it up”. Why mess with any of them if seal can give you an extra 100%/200%/300% damage if your seal level is higher than your opponent?

Insofar as balance, you pesky mages and archers still destroy at world boss. :P

Nah, mages (save for a few holy OP ones) are kinda weak like marshmallow. Our only saving grace is aoe which helps the team for mp dungeons and helps the team again for arena (if you are on the opposing team, get a mage lol). For 1v1 pvp, the ground is pretty even. Yes, we eat non-OP knights sometimes but archers eat us. Rock-paper-scissors, no?

 
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Originally posted by wizzy:

Other than damage reduction for mages (it seems pathetic anyway when compared to goddess blessing which is not much less pathetic), I can’t see how the other passive talents (I assume they are all passive since only Seal appears in the talent hotkey spot and it can’t seem to be changed) really help.

For example, I won’t even want to add e.g. Survival. If I can afford to use Seal to power up my single-heal restoration and suffer the cooldown increase, I might as well wait a little to use group-heal blessed light. Survival may be useful under some circumstances but I don’t foresee it as being something essential enough to tip the balance.

The rage reduction ones have low probability of occurring and they don’t make me jump around in excitement. Again, they might help like castinator but I don’t think they are important enough to rush to get them. Damnation may be useful for those mages who use this skill. Otherwise… the rest of the talents don’t even involve skills generally used by mages.

Of course, some of these talents may become more useful as you spend massive exp to lvl them. But for now, at first look and preliminary testing, only Seal per se is something worthwhile, particularly for pvp if you have a higher Seal lvl than your opponent (I managed to worm my way to #6 in duels). So if we compare with other classes, mages are indeed very shortchanged as a class by this talent system.

I have read that knights will become overpowered (not sure how true) because of talents and archers seem to be having a lot of complaints. So let’s see… before this patch, archers were way too fast and overpowered. Now after this patch, knights get the cake. I am not complaining here but it would be nice for a patch in the near future to give mages a boost. After all, we have to keep tweaking till we reach that elusive balance.

I use restoration quite often both in dungeons and id pvp against other mages, for me 5 second on cooldown is not a problem but 9k heal on average becomes 11k which usually is enough to buy one more turn to kill enemy.

Focus seems to be nice especially for dungeons mostly but it is 3rd thing that gives us chance for reduced rage, and rage is what limits mages.

Barrier is better than goddess blessing imo. It gives you roughly 2lvls of Godess blessing astral which quickly becomes rather expensive.

Momentum seems rather pointless, 1% is to little to bother with that and with rage issues you won’t be able to cast it quicker anyway.

Redemption seems a nice skills but overall not worth the cost.

Misfortune is very good if you use damnation.

Rest of talents is useless as mage delphic is sad thing.

As for seal vs passives it depends what you aim for. Seal will be better most of the time in pvp but during pve passives will be better.

 
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As far as I can tell, the archer talents are pretty lame, the mage talents are marginally better and the knight talents overpower both other classes’ talents by a pretty big margin.