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Problem with Knights page 3

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Originally posted by atreylune:

With the top 3 of each class thing, I just feel like everyone else but the top 3 get shafted – it’s not a fix for the overall class problem, just for the top 3. KE, san, jaymz, quint, I could probably get in there if I chose to revive (generally I get 15~20 with no balens spent, with revives I’ve hit… 4? 5? been a while) – but even so, Knights as a class don’t get helped, just us. The level 54-, the whole rest of our class, are still being outdamaged like crazy, nothing in it for them. ):

Hmmm… instead of instancing the WB by level / doing top 3 of each class, what about going the whole way and instancing WBs by class? So knights only compete against knights, archers against archers, mages against mages, and so on, and each WB has a set amount of HP. The knight WB would be the slowest to fall by far, but the comparative rewards would be greater for all of us – and in terms of % the archer one wouldn’t suffer too badly – it’d fall fastest, but it’d be the same total amount of damage done and gold/daru dispensed.

The low end archers would have to compete with Smiddy/Dink/Pernilla/et al, but – well, technically they currently have to compete with them and Gruntar/Halc/Chomo/et al and KE/san/et al already anyway and the comparative gains would probably be similar…

(Wrong account, deleted to avoid confusion. :P)

WB instance by class works. Yay!

 
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I’m surprised that no one mentioned about stopping WB’s special attack of 5th turn. Knights will stand longer than other classes, resulting in deal more damages in each round and less spending time (or balens) to revive.

 
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Originally posted by Mits1:

I’m surprised that no one mentioned about stopping WB’s special attack of 5th turn. Knights will stand longer than other classes, resulting in deal more damages in each round and less spending time (or balens) to revive.


Boosted 50%, the WB takes maybe 1-2k hp off me per hit (I block heal more than he damages me for). The ulti is there for a good reason – to force people to wait for respawn or spend balens to do it, or else I could literally go the entire WB in one fight doing constant damage. And I’m not even in the top 10 on the server.

Our highest archers also have 50-55k HP and probably take 1-2k damage as well. Basically, removing the ulti would make the top end players OP beyond belief…

 
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Hmmm. Then, how about gradually increasing WB’s attack as like in Arena battle? Increase only WB’s attack gradually so that no one can stand forever. The drawback of archer would be less defensiveness and this is not obvious in such a short period battle of current WB system. And stopping the battle within 5th turn is the most disadvantageous feature especially for the knights. This is the problem, right?

So, my thought is to make defensiveness of knights to be somewhat meaningful in WB.

 
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Originally posted by darkChaos23:

Any action that knights take will give them rage, basically using seal, normal attack, or even runes will give them rage, if you want to complain about WW’s rage cost try playing an archer , you’ll be constantly praying that your arrow strike crits so you can do a lunatic in round 3 instead of 4 (normally if it takes 4 rounds to aoe its probably too late)

What? I never talked about archers.
I was comparing mages and knights on pvp, since i was replying to someone who said that knights are the best pvp class in the late game.
And i think that it’s not true, cause a knight can hit as hard as he want, but will anyway be slower than an equal BR mage at the beginning of the fight.
Sure, you can level up your seal, but that means stop leveling up your pg…

However, the biggest problem for knights is always the same, the WBs: less damage = less gold and less daru.
Less gold means more time to level up astrals and more time to level up guild skills.
Less daru means more time to level up troops.

And there we come back at the point of my topic: knights are the slowest class.

 
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seems almost every knight has ignored my comments about knights being able to catch up in WB simply with a good rotation and hitting delphic every round.

perhaps we should wait for a new server and i can test this again.

 
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I’m only talking about WB. Also, I’m a knight.
Why not just lower the 1, 2, and 3 bonus in WB? The archers will still more get the gold and daru than other classes, but the other classes wouldn’t complain as much. I feel for the cashers who picked a knight or mage. Imagine spending as much as an archer ($3k) and not getting similar rewards.

Please note that most knights, archers, and mages that are not in the top 30, don’t care about bonus since we have no chance of getting it. But the lower levels are just adding this to their complaints about the classes not being fair. My advice to low levels, start a new character…..if you think archers are OP, start an archer. If the server is full of only archers, R2 or whoever will adjust the classes.

 
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Originally posted by alveolate:

seems almost every knight has ignored my comments about knights being able to catch up in WB simply with a good rotation and hitting delphic every round.

perhaps we should wait for a new server and i can test this again.

I think most of us have ignored it because it’s not really possible. If the Knight had cashed more than the other classes, sure. At equal levels of cash? Pretty much never happening, even if you do delphic every round (and most of us do, that is the most basic strategy here).

Originally posted by Mits1:

Hmmm. Then, how about gradually increasing WB’s attack as like in Arena battle? Increase only WB’s attack gradually so that no one can stand forever. The drawback of archer would be less defensiveness and this is not obvious in such a short period battle of current WB system. And stopping the battle within 5th turn is the most disadvantageous feature especially for the knights. This is the problem, right?

So, my thought is to make defensiveness of knights to be somewhat meaningful in WB.


Screws over mages again. Can’t leave them out to just compare Knights/Archers. ):

Originally posted by Askmepost:

I’m only talking about WB. Also, I’m a knight.
Why not just lower the 1, 2, and 3 bonus in WB? The archers will still more get the gold and daru than other classes, but the other classes wouldn’t complain as much… Please note that most knights, archers, and mages that are not in the top 30, don’t care about bonus since we have no chance of getting it.

But it’s not the bonus that people are talking about, it’s about comparative overall damage and gold/daru gains of class vs class as a whole. The knights below the top 30 are still getting less than the archers below the top 30, so removing the top 3 bonus doesn’t do anything to help them…

 
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Ye, only ignored it to be polite, best rotation I have found is auto/slasher/auto/slasher/delphic/ultimate slasher. That gets in 6 attacks every round, and at lvl 61 and using full vouchers and no balens, I can get 250,000 gold and daru. For comparison, my SiL runs an archer, and if he is on the road and I run his archer on my wifes computer, level 59, pretty much equal amounts of cash spent, no vouchers, only hitting his multishot every time I can, only getting 9 rounds in vs my 11, and he gets 220,000 gold and daru. Without the vouchers, I can almost get to 200 in 11 rounds. My SiL running his archer right and NO vouchers hits 300,000. Tell me again how fair it is. The WB is unbalanced, and while I can understand archers wanting to maintain their advantage, DONT TELL ME HOW FAIR IT IS. I can count just fine and I am going to believe what I see rather than what someone wanting an advantage tells me.

If someone has a better rotation, share it, I have tried a lot and that is the best I have found (I have both slasher and Ultimate slasher and delphic maxed btw, at 5 5 3. Guild skills at 8, astral patk at 4, unbuffed phy atk 10200. Crit only 515, I plan to put a crit astral in next, taht might make a difference in what rotationworks best.

 
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Skywatcher, if you are only getting 6 attacks every round, that means you don’t understand timed hits, double hits, or whatever anyone calls them. Only getting 6 actual attacks on the world boss when everyone else could easily get 10 (counting auto+action as 2) of course your damage is going to be lousy.

I suggest you look up the forum posts GOOD rotation for a knight on wb and Ybrik- says bye and left some knight tips for all.

 
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Being a Knight is a tough job but keep in mind, nightmare dungeon without a knight can’t run it. I played knight too, so I really understood their damage outcome is low.I am using enhance will destroyer instead of critical because our damage won’t float that much with stable damage dealing to boss.(with critical u still need determination astral on your slot, so not that great in my view, unless your gem make u good at critical.I got max 11 atk in wb at all for knight without vouchers about 250k+, just ultimate slasher is not easy to chain may mess me up.

 
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Originally posted by Skywatcher:

Ye, only ignored it to be polite, best rotation I have found is auto/slasher/auto/slasher/delphic/ultimate slasher. That gets in 6 attacks every round, and at lvl 61 and using full vouchers and no balens, I can get 250,000 gold and daru. For comparison, my SiL runs an archer, and if he is on the road and I run his archer on my wifes computer, level 59, pretty much equal amounts of cash spent, no vouchers, only hitting his multishot every time I can, only getting 9 rounds in vs my 11, and he gets 220,000 gold and daru. Without the vouchers, I can almost get to 200 in 11 rounds. My SiL running his archer right and NO vouchers hits 300,000. Tell me again how fair it is. The WB is unbalanced, and while I can understand archers wanting to maintain their advantage, DONT TELL ME HOW FAIR IT IS. I can count just fine and I am going to believe what I see rather than what someone wanting an advantage tells me.

If someone has a better rotation, share it, I have tried a lot and that is the best I have found (I have both slasher and Ultimate slasher and delphic maxed btw, at 5 5 3. Guild skills at 8, astral patk at 4, unbuffed phy atk 10200. Crit only 515, I plan to put a crit astral in next, taht might make a difference in what rotationworks best.

Best rotation depends on your spending unfortunately. I’ll assume you mean as a free player:

delphic, auto > slash, ulti, auto > slash, ulti, auto > slash {end}

If you can reliably combo auto > ulti, good luck.

 
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Originally posted by mactt2011:

Being a Knight is a tough job but keep in mind, nightmare dungeon without a knight can’t run it.

…and that has fallen. First on S1 to do it: 2 mages; 2 archers. Boom goes the dynamite.

 
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Did they actually clear though, or only passed first boss? think first boss is several times easier than last one…

 
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Originally posted by gruntarswe:

Did they actually clear though, or only passed first boss? think first boss is several times easier than last one…

You’re right. It was the first one. The point is that the claims that a knight is required for “this and then this and then this” keep falling by the wayside. ;p

 
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I wonder why you’re still playing KE. :p

Because from what it seems, Knights seem to be the worst class in EVERY aspect. Crypt, PvP, MP, WB. Did I miss something?

 
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Originally posted by Atombender:

I wonder why you’re still playing KE. :p

Because from what it seems, Knights seem to be the worst class in EVERY aspect. Crypt, PvP, MP, WB. Did I miss something?

Mmm… PvP is nice; good balance there. BG is decent.

To be honest, I like stunning. :)

 
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I concur. Knight and Archer too OP, downgrade them.

 
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Originally posted by Namagderas:

I concur. Knight and Archer too OP, downgrade them.

Get more PDEF

 
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…. No classes are OP. Archers are good against mages, mages are good against knights and knights are good against archers. You should focus on your MATK more…

 
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as for knights, when knights block, we receive 4% heal chance right?

then how come whenever archers used lunatic fire and i blocked all the shots, why do i only get 1 heal?

 
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Originally posted by wartotal:

as for knights, when knights block, we receive 4% heal chance right?

then how come whenever archers used lunatic fire and i blocked all the shots, why do i only get 1 heal?

Some skills are treated as a “collective one”, in that, the entire barrage of shots is counted as “one” chance to heal.

 
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I’m sick of people saying that Knights are underpowered. Classes are meant to be different for a reason, now lets talk more about knights. Knights have Insane Defence / AoE / Shield / Block + Heal / Stun (Since you lose a turn if you get your rage sucked out) / Double Attack (same as Multi for Archers) and one last important detail… HP!

I’m an Archer with over 14k PATK and I still get out-damaged by Knights with 12.5k patk. How is this possible? The answer is easy: The famous mage/knight astral Will Destroyer. Couple of friends of mine who are over 17k PATK Archers also see this pattern for top level knights. Archers are meant for damage / Knights are meant for defence / Mages are meant for support.

Instead of saying that Knights are underpowered, watch the top players on each server and you will notice that a Knight is probably on top. In my honest opinion Knights are the most Over-Powered class in the game, a knight should either be a tank or attacker, shouldn’t be both. I normally do 6k – 10k with my crits and Knights do the same damage without crit.
The only downfall of being a knight is the fact that you will probably not be in the top 10 for WB, but as I mentioned ealier knights are meant for defence. If you want to be in the top 10 go make an archer xD.

 
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Originally posted by GiovanniV:

I’m sick of people saying that Knights are underpowered. Classes are meant to be different for a reason, now lets talk more about knights. Knights have Insane Defence / AoE / Shield / Block + Heal / Stun (Since you lose a turn if you get your rage sucked out) / Double Attack (same as Multi for Archers) and one last important detail… HP!

I’m an Archer with over 14k PATK and I still get out-damaged by Knights with 12.5k patk. How is this possible? The answer is easy: The famous mage/knight astral Will Destroyer. Couple of friends of mine who are over 17k PATK Archers also see this pattern for top level knights. Archers are meant for damage / Knights are meant for defence / Mages are meant for support.

Instead of saying that Knights are underpowered, watch the top players on each server and you will notice that a Knight is probably on top. In my honest opinion Knights are the most Over-Powered class in the game, a knight should either be a tank or attacker, shouldn’t be both. I normally do 6k – 10k with my crits and Knights do the same damage without crit.
The only downfall of being a knight is the fact that you will probably not be in the top 10 for WB, but as I mentioned ealier knights are meant for defence. If you want to be in the top 10 go make an archer xD.

:(

 
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meh, they should just make it per hit instead of collective lol.

in my server currently, the amount of knights in the top 50 BR seems so little lol.

perhaps its the preconception that knights suck