Knight Gems HP vs PDEF

So for PvP Crypt and MPD tanking, which one is the overall better choice and why?

I have 24 Slots and besides the ubiquitous 8 x PATK and 8 x MDEF. is there a recommended mix or is it just okay to go 8 x of one sort?

Looking at the equip of top Knights on my server, most seem to mix it up, either 4 + 4 or 6 + 2.

The problem I have with PDEF is that I can’t see how effective it is. With HP you get hard numbers like 880 HP + 20% Skill + Soul Engraving. And with every HP your Agoran Shield will become more efficient. And of course it works against all sorts of damage. With PDEF you can’t tell how much more physical damage you can absorb and it is useless vs magic (and Mages are our bane) and fixed DOT from bosses.

Unfortunately, hoovering over a value doesn’t tell you the damage reduction or the crit increase in %.

Damage forumula : (atk-def)/2, so every 2 points of def reduces the damage you take by 1

knights have the hardest choice of all in this case i guess, with them having the greatest benefit from hp and also a bonus to pdef…but generally, pdef will win out in the long run against opponents doing physical damage, in long fights

You might always consider making legend jewels and/or rings as well, for more gems slots ^^, makes the choice easier…for example 6/6 etc

Like you said, HP is useful for more things.

PDEF affects: being hit by PATK (… yeah, that’s it)
Max HP affects: shield HP, block-heals, Suntoria-heals

I stuck to 4/4 I think, then after getting legendaries went 8HP/4PDEF.

The thing is – it’s not just PDEF vs HP. It’s when you get a ton of block (gear, astrals, gems, or PVP med) that max HP starts to really shine, as you end up healing for almost as much/more than what you get hit for, especially if you have an Illusion on and dodge/block proc at the same time. Nothing like having an archer crit delphic you, dodging for 1 damage, then block-healing 2k+. Block/heal also mitigates mage damage by a lot (you know, assuming similar BR).

Benefits of HP Gems for Knights
1. thicker Agoran Shield (20% max HP)
2. more heal from Enhanced Block (4% max HP)
3. more heal from mage’s Suntoria (4/5/6% max HP for 5/7 turns, further boosted by knight’s +20% heal passive) edit: good catch, Death1698!
4. HP is good for ALL types of attacks (including the irreducible bleeds)
5. HP Gems have high values (lv5 HP Gem = 880HP, almost a lv2 Pristine Brilliance) which get higher with Soul Engraving

Thanks for the replies.

Not gonna touch epic upgrades any time soon. I think I’ll stick with 6 HP / 2 PDEF.

Atm i have 8 patk gems, 7 mdef, 7 pdef and 2 HP.
Probably i could convert a couple of pdef in HP at level 70, when i’ll equip a guardian angel astral, for the pvp vs archers…
Or simply wait for upgrading my jewelry to legendary and unlock the 4th slot.

Late bump but the gap between Lv 4 and Lv 5 gems is larger than the gap between Lv 5 and Lv 6 for all gems.

HP: 4=560, 5=880, 6=1100
PATK, MATK, PDEF, MDEF: 4=112, 5=176; 6=220

Not complaining since I love my Lv 5’s but it seems a bit odd.

Originally posted by Atombender:

Late bump but the gap between Lv 4 and Lv 5 gems is larger than the gap between Lv 5 and Lv 6 for all gems.

HP: 4=560, 5=880, 6=1100
PATK, MATK, PDEF, MDEF: 4=112, 5=176; 6=220

Not complaining since I love my Lv 5’s but it seems a bit odd.

True. After that anomaly though, there are no others from 6 onward as the gap grows at an equal or increasing pace. :)

All values up to Lv 7

Upgrade from 2 to 3 is poor, 3 to 4 still low, 4 to 5 huge. Feel free to fill in the Lv 8’s

Thanks!

Lv 12? Jeez…

I’m curious, where on earth would one get a level 9 or higher gem?

Originally posted by neenjaownage:

I’m curious, where on earth would one get a level 9 or higher gem?

As of now, only by normal synth means.

You guys know that pdef helps your shield and blockheal too? Obviously when you get less dmg, your shield holds longer and your heals do relatively more…

hp gems have always 5x the value than pdef, and 2 pdef = 1 dmg less, so if you get hit 10+ times, pdef gems are stronger (w/o shield/heal). Shieldhits just doesnt count for that 10+ number, so you have to substract them and the same with heals. So to say, every hit that is eaten by your shield or a heal doesnt add to that 10+ number.
Gosh, that was somehow complicated :/

In short:
If your hp is 10+ times higher than the average dmg (which is (his patk – your pdef)/2) you take, go for pdef.
This only holds true for knights and archers obv ^^ (and skills that are not affected by patk/pdef)

You dont necessarily need to get hit 10 times to have more of an effect off pdef than hp…getting hit 4x with a 250% skillmult atk has the same effect…

Curious to see that crit, block and charisma start going above the patterned 1/2 of atk/def or 1/10th hp at level 6 as well…very noticable at 7 and up espcially

You guys know that pdef helps your shield and blockheal too? Obviously when you get less dmg, your shield holds longer and your heals do relatively more…

And HP doesn’t help with Shield? Also please explain how blocks heal “relatively more” with more PDEF.

Originally posted by Atombender:

You guys know that pdef helps your shield and blockheal too? Obviously when you get less dmg, your shield holds longer and your heals do relatively more…

And HP doesn’t help with Shield? Also please explain how blocks heal “relatively more” with more PDEF.

thats pretty simple, the blue #s will be smaller, along with the green ones.
Defense and HP affect the shield.
Defense makes the shield take less damage, HP makes the shield have more hit points. its a trade off.

this is obvious, and I’m a mage, lol

Originally posted by alveolate:

Benefits of HP Gems for Knights
1. thicker Agoran Shield (20% max HP)
2. more heal from Enhanced Block (4% max HP)
3. more heal from mage’s Suntoria (5/6/7% max HP for 5/7 turns, further boosted by knight’s +20% heal passive)
4. HP is good for ALL types of attacks (including the irreducible bleeds)
5. HP Gems have high values (lv5 HP Gem = 880HP, almost a lv2 Pristine Brilliance) which get higher with Soul Engraving

Suntoria is 1% less than you got listed so you might get a bit less health than you expect when you get suntoria’d by a mage it goes 4/5/6 from level 1-3

Originally posted by thedog1:

Originally posted by Atombender:

You guys know that pdef helps your shield and blockheal too? Obviously when you get less dmg, your shield holds longer and your heals do relatively more…

And HP doesn’t help with Shield? Also please explain how blocks heal “relatively more” with more PDEF.

thats pretty simple, the blue #s will be smaller, along with the green ones.
Defense and HP affect the shield.
Defense makes the shield take less damage, HP makes the shield have more hit points. its a trade off.

this is obvious, and I’m a mage, lol

Well yeah, obviously a mage and your info is misleading since Block heal is based on your MAX HP (100% chance to heal 4%). So you heal more with more max HP.

i play league of legends, and while the mechanics there are slightly different, in the case of DEF vs HP, it’s similar.

the term they use in MOBAs is “effective HP” or EHP for short. the idea is that DEF and HP multiply into each other: more DEF makes your existing HP more “effective”, so it is as if the HP is “multiplied” upwards.

so while i say HP is generally better than PDEF/MDEF, it does NOT mean i’m saying PDEF/MDEF is no good… in fact, PDEF and MDEF are a close second in terms of importance. after you get enough HP, you should get more PDEF/MDEF.

but back to the thread… this thread compares PDEF with HP. PDEF gems generally give only 1/5 the amount that HP gems give, whereas PDEF astrals give almost 1/2 what HP astrals give. i am recommending HP gems with PDEF astrals for an optimum setup. ultimately, you want more of BOTH stats; now it is just a question of: where should i get the stats from?

on that note, guild skill Endurance gives 40 × 20 = 800hp per level, while Defense gives 40 × 4 = 160 PDEF and MDEF per level. i would say buy more Defense skills if you can afford it!

another variable source of these stats would be via refining your gear; and once again, gear stats give comparatively better DEF than HP for the same stars.

Whenever a new level pops up and I can afford it, my skill purchase order is Power, Defense, Endurance.

In general, Defense and Endurance should be upgraded first because everyone will profit from them.

HP Astrals have poor values, even the orange astral is just 25% better than the purple and 500 HP per level is nothing. It would prolly take 1000 HP per level to make people consider using it.

There’s another (rather small) advantage when you mix up your gems; you don’t need to convert HP/PDEF all the time which saves at least some money.

Doing something different now. Due to constant block gem drops in Crypt runs, my current setup ended up like this. As of 3/11

8 X MDEF
8 x PATK
4 x HP
2 X Block
2 X PDEF

Works pretty well so far.

Thanks KE the info of gems is quite helpful, i am playing a knight too, can i ask your gem sockets option?

Originally posted by mactt2011:

Thanks KE the info of gems is quite helpful, i am playing a knight too, can i ask your gem sockets option?

Short answer: Dumped HP for PATK, PDEF, MDEF.

I like mix of gems, coz i am not sure further patch do i have to switch so i agree atombender’s view