Forums Wartune

Current BR system

18 posts

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It’s kind of suggestion, but the suggestion thread is imo too much spammed and it this thread could be lost and/or hard to trace. It’s also probably been posted already, but I can’t find any way to search this forum and I’m too lazy to read over 130 posts :P

As I noticed, current br is very confusing.
For example, Knight with all astrals like block, pdef, mdef, hp, patt can have 30k br, but archer with astrals like patt, pdef, dodge, dmg reduce, crit can have 25k hp and be still better than knight becouse the dmg reduce and dodge are % not being added to current br.
Perhaps, instead of adding astrals’ stats… add the astral exp, or count it based on astral type (green, purple etc) and lvl ?
I know the br is most probably counting stats (which astrals give to), but maybe it’s time to change the algo ?

 
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A 30k BR knight with an HP astral is a knight who has to go playing Farmville…

Everyone in the game has, more or less, the same astrals, so BR is not affected from them.
Only difference could be between mages and knight\archers, but between archers and knights there’s no difference: a good knight have block and WD, an archer determination and sniper’s edge; a mage, who doesn’t use crit or block increasing astrals, has a free slot he can use for some % astrals, but it’s a minimal difference

 
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Why would you need to change it though? it is mostly just a rough estimate of your power relative to someone elses, and it only counts stats, so it can be a bit misleading, true…but it also does not affect anything at all other than the start of server events and the hall of fame event anyhow does it?

For those few select events you can just change your astrals for stat adding ones anyway…

 
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from Wikia: Statistics

Your battle rating is determined by adding all of your battle stats (PATK, PDEF, MATK, MDEF, Crit, Block, HP, Troop Count) together, but with Magical Attack multiplied by 1.05 (and rounded down), and HP divided by 5 (and rounded down). This value is shown to other players, and is intended to give a rough idea of how powerful you are.
 
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There’s even an article on how to manually calculate the BR of an item! :o

 
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so essentially the OP’s point is that EWD, goddess blessing, etc should give br. Which is a fair point in my opinion.

 
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Sounds complicated and still would only give you a rough estimate of your power relative to others. For example, mdef is useless when fighting knights or archers, yet it is included in BR; the bonuses from armor sets are also not included in BR. Sounds like it would be complicated to implement and is really unnecessary.

It does what it is supposed to do and attributing some kind of BR value to percentage based astrals would not really fix the system. BR only really matters if you care about ranking in the top 100. And that’s an empty distinction because there are no rewards and everyone knows BR is not an absolute ranking.

 
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Apparently, the BR is superflorous. I have a BR of 1,124,768 and loose to a BR of 822,864.

 
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when BR is used to determine who qualifies for cw and that monthly thing with loads of bosses, it’s probably a very valid suggestion this.

 
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Originally posted by Ronklaf:

Apparently, the BR is superflorous. I have a BR of 1,124,768 and loose to a BR of 822,864.

you got br of what?1,1m? dont think so lolo

 
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Originally posted by versi69:
Originally posted by Ronklaf:

Apparently, the BR is superflorous. I have a BR of 1,124,768 and loose to a BR of 822,864.

you got br of what?1,1m? dont think so lolo

Well, it is possible… Have you seen Maldian’s account? :P

 
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With sylph gear and holy forge, it probably is possible but very expensive to do. I haven’t seen anyone totally maxed, so not sure what the highest possible BR is for now. I remember when a BR of 30k made you a god and a BR of 100k seemed impossible. Now, a BR of 100k is considered weak (for higher levels) and it’s not uncommon to see lots of people over 400k BR in Fire Temple.

BR is just a rough estimate. Lots of important items (like % astrals) that don’t affect BR make you stronger, but we also have stats that are pure fluff (patk on a mage, for example). In a way, you could say they cancel each other out. Those who go too heavy on the fluff will find they get thrashed by people lower BR than them. Those that go light on the fluff will look “weaker” but will beat people who are “stronger” than them. My archer alt frequently beats people 10k higher BR than her in fire temple because so many rush to 80 and don’t have high talents yet; having talents maxed for her level gives her a substantial edge that isn’t reflected in her BR.

Trying to make BR more accurate would quickly become prohibitively difficult. How do you calculate BR for luck based effects (like deflect, illusion, rage reduction procs, talent procs, etc)? There isn’t really any easy numeric value for that. Even things like EWD would be difficult to calculate. It increases your attack by 50% (when maxed), but it also reduces your max possible damage (since it disables crit). Would that make it functionally 0 change to BR since it is both increase and nerf at the same time? What is the BR value of higher starting rage? How would runes affect your BR? Is damage over time more potent than a temporary defense boost? Is a heal rune a bigger BR jump than chaos or amnesia? If you had to calculate a BR value for everything in the game that affects your toon’s fighting ability, you’d also have to take the skills equipped on the player’s bar into account. Is a heal higher BR gain than a dps move? Should a shield count for more than a debuff? Do delphics trump all, even when they are mostly worthless like mage delphics (terrible single target dps and lower stun chance than archer delphic death star)? Should resistances count? Would all resistances count, or only the particular element you’re facing at the given moment? How about will crystals? Should stats that are worthless for a particular fight not count (fight a mage and pdef no longer counts towards BR; fight a night and mdef no longer counts but pdef is back again)? What if you fight someone who is both matk and patk (mage with patk sylph or knight/archer with matk sylph)?

 
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Originally posted by KS23:

With sylph gear and holy forge, it probably is possible but very expensive to do. I haven’t seen anyone totally maxed, so not sure what the highest possible BR is for now. I remember when a BR of 30k made you a god and a BR of 100k seemed impossible. Now, a BR of 100k is considered weak (for higher levels) and it’s not uncommon to see lots of people over 400k BR in Fire Temple.

BR is just a rough estimate. Lots of important items (like % astrals) that don’t affect BR make you stronger, but we also have stats that are pure fluff (patk on a mage, for example). In a way, you could say they cancel each other out. Those who go too heavy on the fluff will find they get thrashed by people lower BR than them. Those that go light on the fluff will look “weaker” but will beat people who are “stronger” than them. My archer alt frequently beats people 10k higher BR than her in fire temple because so many rush to 80 and don’t have high talents yet; having talents maxed for her level gives her a substantial edge that isn’t reflected in her BR.

Trying to make BR more accurate would quickly become prohibitively difficult. How do you calculate BR for luck based effects (like deflect, illusion, rage reduction procs, talent procs, etc)? There isn’t really any easy numeric value for that. Even things like EWD would be difficult to calculate. It increases your attack by 50% (when maxed), but it also reduces your max possible damage (since it disables crit). Would that make it functionally 0 change to BR since it is both increase and nerf at the same time? What is the BR value of higher starting rage? How would runes affect your BR? Is damage over time more potent than a temporary defense boost? Is a heal rune a bigger BR jump than chaos or amnesia? If you had to calculate a BR value for everything in the game that affects your toon’s fighting ability, you’d also have to take the skills equipped on the player’s bar into account. Is a heal higher BR gain than a dps move? Should a shield count for more than a debuff? Do delphics trump all, even when they are mostly worthless like mage delphics (terrible single target dps and lower stun chance than archer delphic death star)? Should resistances count? Would all resistances count, or only the particular element you’re facing at the given moment? How about will crystals? Should stats that are worthless for a particular fight not count (fight a mage and pdef no longer counts towards BR; fight a night and mdef no longer counts but pdef is back again)? What if you fight someone who is both matk and patk (mage with patk sylph or knight/archer with matk sylph)?

u did so much brain damage to me…i will start to hate you…nice point of view though, br is just an estimation of +-20% how strong ur opponent will be, % astrals, % luck, % skills, % timing, % rng, % runes, and so many more factors can determine a winner.

if a rune is better than another or a dps skill is better than a heal one depends on the situation and cant be decided beforehand, i would say that heal/guardian runes help more in longer battles (consider also that after adv lvl 7 there are 4 uses, that might come handy in no CW pvp situation)

 
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I agree with you that many things are situational. I was just pointing out how complicated trying to gage actual fighting ability in this game would be. So far, the only change I’ve seen them make to how BR is calculated is making full sylph BR add to your own. I’m not sure if that’s a good change or not. It seems to have made BR a bit less accurate since a weak toon with an OP sylph looks scary but is so easy to shred its almost comic.

If you could change how BR is calculated, what would you have them add/remove to make the number more accurate for players?

 
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I would probably remove sylph base br/sylph team br from all calculations, to begin with…then…

Make the directly boosting % astrals such as determ and godess blessing, multiply br based on their respective stats…like determ adds 0.5x your crit value in br(at unboosted level 10), godess blessing adds 0.3x your (mdef+pdef) in br…just br number, not adding any actual stats…i think that would be a start…then do the same for the other % based astrals, but the calcs would be a lot mroe complex

 
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Originally posted by gruntarswe:

I would probably remove sylph base br/sylph team br from all calculations, to begin with…then…

Make the directly boosting % astrals such as determ and godess blessing, multiply br based on their respective stats…like determ adds 0.5x your crit value in br(at unboosted level 10), godess blessing adds 0.3x your (mdef+pdef) in br…just br number, not adding any actual stats…i think that would be a start…then do the same for the other % based astrals, but the calcs would be a lot mroe complex

maybe they do it later like on china?
u got br from sylp+ kid+ god knows what
thier toons got like 350k base attack , around same def but 3m+ hp so….

 
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BR is screwed up anyway. My Athena gives me 50k-60k more BR than my Hercules does. My Athena has also received every last sepulcrum I’ve earned. And yet, my Hercules still does more damage in 1v1 fights, so I still use it. I drop from 330k BR to 270k BR, but I do more DPS with my Herc, my Athena just has more HP and AoEs.

 
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Originally posted by HowDoUPlay:

BR is screwed up anyway. My Athena gives me 50k-60k more BR than my Hercules does. My Athena has also received every last sepulcrum I’ve earned. And yet, my Hercules still does more damage in 1v1 fights, so I still use it. I drop from 330k BR to 270k BR, but I do more DPS with my Herc, my Athena just has more HP and AoEs.

Herc is designed for dps and has all the most useful dps skills (cerberus got majorly screwed in that regard). Its hard for Athena to keep up dps wise with a sylph that has a passive that increases its attack every time it gets hit and has a mdef debuff aoe on top of that. It feels like Athena and Gaia exist to force cashers to spend. They give you higher BR than other sylphs, and with some rankings/rewards being based on BR, that pretty much forces you to have a strong one and use it (for higher rankings/rewards). This isn’t to say that Athena and Gaia suck. Athena’s aoes are OP in arena and ToK and Gaia’s attack heal + debuffs that do damage make it pretty potent as well (even though it can’t keep up with Herc or even cerberus for single target dps).